Entry level DSO warranty service quality?

[levinite]

I have recently become a member. I have researched entry level DSO posts on this forum. I live in the USA. Has anyone had experience with a company who offers sub $400 scopes who have service centers within the USA and have had a good experience with under warranty repair. Or is Rigol my only choice?

[dannyf]

Those are mostly throw-away scopes.

Buy a new one if they go out.

[tautech]

Those are mostly throw-away scopes.

Buy a new one if they go out.

  That's a bit harsh. I have seen many entry level DSO's (>100 MHz) used in the service industry, even design and testing.

OP Just get what serves your needs in the more popular brands from a NA authorised supplier and/or follow this thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-or-hantek/
Tequipment is a member here and offers other members a discount.

[levinite]

I wish I could afford a "throw-away scope". I have seriously looked at the Siglent 1072CML that seems to have better specs and is actually cheaper than the Rigol 1052E at Tequipment.
The issue is there is no Siglent service center in the US and from posts I've read on this forum, their service frankly sucks. So far the only "decent" scope I have found that should be easily serviceable in the US in this price range is the Rigol. I don't plan on hacking it while in warranty, but I would like something that I don't have to "throw-away" for at least the 3 year warranty.  It just seems in this category there is no easy way to get a faulty scope that is under warrranty serviced within the US or am I wrong?

[jadew]

Scopes don't usually break, unless you seriously abuse them. If you don't plan to do that, I wouldn't worry too much about servicing them.

[tautech]

I wish I could afford a "throw-away scope". I have seriously looked at the Siglent 1072CML that seems to have better specs and is actually cheaper than the Rigol 1052E at Tequipment.
The issue is there is no Siglent service center in the US and from posts I've read on this forum, their service frankly sucks. So far the only "decent" scope I have found that should be easily serviceable in the US in this price range is the Rigol. I don't plan on hacking it while in warranty, but I would like something that I don't have to "throw-away" for at least the 3 year warranty.  It just seems in this category there is no easy way to get a faulty scope that is under warrranty serviced within the US or am I wrong?

As I have yet to have a warranty issue on a Siglent, I have no idea of their process in detail.
Many that have posted gripes here have taken the cheapest option and bought from any Whung Hung Lo store in China and when they have had no support forthcoming they have bagged Siglent.
Hardly fair considering their actions.
My communication with Siglent is excellent and in NO way "sucks".
They have indicated when necessary they would send replacement boards to swap out for repair needs.
What makes me any different to other Siglent distributors?
I think you need to address some questions to a NA seller for your piece of mind.
An authorized dealer has their good name and the products reputation to protect.
Use this to your advantage.

[pickle9000]

I've gained a great deal of respect for Siglent over the past few years. The link to my Siglent and yes it has been abused (not my only scope). I also have a SDG1020 and I'd recommend it to anyone, rock solid.

Here is the info on the scope.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/atten-asd1102cal-to-siglent-sds1102cml/msg332530/#msg332530

In reality my Siglent sds1102cml (after mod) aka Atten-asd1102cal (before mod) was literally purchased as a throw away. It's been abused and used but keeps on ticking, I have no complaints. 

[pickle9000]

IIRC ATTEN / GRATTEN / SIGLENT [http://www.gratten.com.cn/ch/index.asp] was the sub-contractor for LeCroy (Teledyne)
WaveAve 100 family and in period 2010~2011 they screwed up with putting crippled DSO units on market ... - if you called the chief
sales of LeCroy europe - they would send you a patch disabling most of the unusable buttons on trigger menu - if you called them a second
time their nose was bleeding ... lots of people invested more than 1250 USD to throw their "trusted" unit in the garbage bin and
were forced to buy Agilent, Tektronix, LeCroy, Hameg R&S ...

Have a look to this video and enjoy:

"A donkey does not bump into the same stone twice." (?)

That particular issue is pretty well known and can be compensated for (to some extent) by changing the volts per division to a lower setting. I'm not sure about extra menu items I have not used the Waveace in question.

Is this an issue? In my opinion all test equipment has issues and limitations of varying degrees. The important thing is to know about them and devise procedures that limit the negative aspects. It's all part of the game.

[jadew]

The same trigger issue is also present on the Rigol DS1000Z.

[rf-loop]

IIRC ATTEN / GRATTEN / SIGLENT [http://www.gratten.com.cn/ch/index.asp] was the sub-contractor for LeCroy (Teledyne)
WaveAve 100 family and in period 2010~2011 they screwed up with putting crippled DSO units on market ... - if you called the chief
sales of LeCroy europe - they would send you a patch disabling most of the unusable buttons on trigger menu - if you called them a second
time their nose was bleeding ... lots of people invested more than 1250 USD to throw their "trusted" unit in the garbage bin and
were forced to buy Agilent, Tektronix, LeCroy, Hameg R&S ...

Have a look to this video and enjoy:

"A donkey does not bump into the same stone twice." (?)

This video is from 2012. After then there have been several FW updates, and also HW updates.  Siglent launched this scope March 2012.

This video is obsolete. Also I can not find information about freshly made selfcalibration. (Just this typical first use then read lesson number one style: "Brand new out of the box" - fun.) 

Today things changes fast and of course most of manufacturers develop themselves more or less fast. Of course Siglent is also quite young manufacturer and have also made mistakes. Everyone do.  They also have learned lot of. All signs show thet this company want learn.

Trigger level accuracy is not perfect. (and trigger is not take from digitized signal what level we know as ADC values are. There is DAC made analog level and comparator in principle and this singnal under test come from last input amplifier before adc.  There is more or less inaccuracies in trigger voltage level and also time position. Take Rigol, Hantek, Owon, Tektronix etc in this oscilloscope class and there is this kind of problem more or less. Also inaccuracy may vary between single individual units. In these level scopes what use this kind of trigger circuit principle, this kind of problem is common and do not produce problems in normal use if user also know what he is doing.
It is totally different with more new trigger circuit principle.  Some amount more advanced models today use digital trigger system.  People who tell that this is "fail" do have total lack of knowledge and experience with this kind of equipments.   What is normal and what is fail/error  need  also be in some relation to specifications (these are from Siglent. Not from Teledyne LeCroy).

Trigger system:

Trigger Level Accuracy (typical)

Internal? ±(0.2 div×V/div)( within±4 divisions from center of screen)
EXT? ±(6% of setting + 40 mV)
EXT/5? ±(6% of setting + 200 mV)


Trigger Sensitivity
For fixed gain ranges
1 Divisions: DC-10MHz
1.5 Divisions: 10MHz - Max BW
EXT: 200mVpp DC-10MHz,
300mVpp 10MHz - Max BW
EXT/5: 1Vpp DC-10MHz,
1.5Vpp 10MHz - Max BW


Vertical system:

DC Gain Accuracy
±3.0%: 5mv/div to 10V/div in Fixed Gain Ranges
±4.0%: 2mv/div Variable Gain Ranges

DC Measurement Accuracy:
All Gain settings?100mv/div
±[3%*(|reading|+|offset|) +1% *of |offset| +0.2div+2mv]

DC Measurement Accuracy:
All Gain settings?100mv/div
±[3%*(|reading|+|offset|)+1%* of |offset| +0.2div+100mv]

But, it looks like there is also real bug in this old  FW (missing trace after trig).  SDS1000CML/CNL/DL series was launched March 2012.

It need lot of knowledge and lot of experience to know what is normal and what is error or fail and also understand what are realities in different price classes.  Example here need look both together, scope vertical trace position  accuracy and Trigger level accuracy! In worst case other can be its positive error side and other can be its negative error side.  Also it need have learn how to use Oscilloscope for best result with these realities what some oscilloscope have.

SDS1000 series CNL/CNL/DL models are cheap entry level scopes but in this Siglent price group they are ok.

Edit: Tried edit specs due to some special characters what this forum do not accept, still not good but it can find from siglent side, pdf.

[jimjam]

I am impressed with how Siglent responded to Frank and managed to fix the problem. They seem to listen and able to fix things, unlike Rigol.....

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-spd3303d-review/

I want to get a power supply and a scope, and although almost everyone here is suggesting me to get a Rigol power supply, I am still not convinced and might end up getting the Siglent SPD3303D.

As for a scope, I'm not sure about Rigol either. Rigol seems to love noisy fans. I hear this about their Power supply and about their scopes. Someone replaced theirs with a more silent one but that would void the warranty. I might end up getting a cheap Siglent scope, or a much more expensive Agilent model. There are some people who seem to like the Owon scope too. "echen" (a member here) seems to think that moving from Siglent scope to Rigol DS1074Z was a big improvement for him.

As usual, for me, I won't know it until I actually bought one. I wish there's a showroom where I can just go and play with them all and compare.

[echen1024]

I am impressed with how Siglent responded to Frank and managed to fix the problem. They seem to listen and able to fix things, unlike Rigol.....

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-spd3303d-review/

I want to get a power supply and a scope, and although almost everyone here is suggesting me to get a Rigol power supply, I am still not convinced and might end up getting the Siglent SPD3303D.

As for a scope, I'm not sure about Rigol either. Rigol seems to love noisy fans. I hear this about their Power supply and about their scopes. Someone replaced theirs with a more silent one but that would void the warranty. I might end up getting a cheap Siglent scope, or a much more expensive Agilent model. There are some people who seem to like the Owon scope too. "echen" (a member here) seems to think that moving from Siglent scope to Rigol DS1074Z was a big improvement for him.

As usual, for me, I won't know it until I actually bought one. I wish there's a showroom where I can just go and play with them all and compare.

Ah yes. Moving from a low-end Siglent without things like DPO, 24Mpts memory, 30k wfms/s, serial decode, and 2 extra channels WAS and still IS a big improvement, especially when you consider the hacks and the price/performance ratio. Siglent is not inherently bad in any way, but if you're going to already spend 400+ on a scope, you might as well go the whole hog and get the Rigol 1000Z, which has significantly more features.

[levinite]

I finally decided on a Hantek scope. It has US warranty service when purchased from Circuit Specialists. I have found that Owon scopes also have US service options depending on where the purchase is made. Of course, if I decide to hack it the point may be mute. Thanks for the replies.