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Author Topic: DS1074Z-PLUS / DS1074Z-PLUS-S  (Read 2730 times)

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Offline garlicbread

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DS1074Z-PLUS / DS1074Z-PLUS-S
« on: February 03, 2016, 09:50:35 AM »
Hi
I've been looking at buying a new scope, I've noticed that the DS1074Z rigol series has now been replaced by the DS1074Z-PLUS
Which is basically just an additional socket on the front for the MSO leads if you want to buy them later on

1. does anyone know if the DS1074Z-PLUS has the same hardware as the DS1074Z-PLUS-S
i.e. the bnc sockets on the back for the arb function generator
or does the S model have a seperate chunk of hardware for this bit? (my thoughts were that perhaps this was also software upgradable)

2. Has anyone managed to hack the DS1074Z-PLUS options yet?
I noticed one thread that was around 165 pages long on sniffing the i2c bus but not much more than that
 

Offline Muxr

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Re: DS1074Z-PLUS / DS1074Z-PLUS-S
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2016, 03:10:34 AM »
I guess not enough members own one to be able to tell. I have not seen a definitive, yes or no on the matter.
 

Offline saelig

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Re: DS1074Z-PLUS / DS1074Z-PLUS-S
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2016, 04:37:03 AM »
I guess not enough members own one to be able to tell. I have not seen a definitive, yes or no on the matter.

Hi There!

No, PLUS scopes cannot be upgraded to -S. That is still an option you have to buy when ordering as there are no BNCs or HW for the -S in the standard unit.  They won't be available in USA until mid-FEB.

Thanks!

Alan Lowne
CEO Saelig Co. Inc.  www.saelig.com
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: DS1074Z-PLUS / DS1074Z-PLUS-S
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2016, 04:42:57 AM »
1. does anyone know if the DS1074Z-PLUS has the same hardware as the DS1074Z-PLUS-S
i.e. the bnc sockets on the back for the arb function generator
or does the S model have a seperate chunk of hardware for this bit? (my thoughts were that perhaps this was also software upgradable)

The DS1054Z has similar options but there's a blank space on the PCB where the signal generator chips go.

So... I'm guessing no, it's not a pure software option. You'll need to buy the hardware.

 

Offline garlicbread

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Re: DS1074Z-PLUS / DS1074Z-PLUS-S
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2016, 11:47:58 AM »
In that case any reports of hacking the features on the plus (non s) version of the DS1074Z?
since the plus version is the only one available now
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: DS1074Z-PLUS / DS1074Z-PLUS-S
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2016, 04:07:57 PM »
In that case any reports of hacking the features on the plus (non s) version of the DS1074Z?
since the plus version is the only one available now

If you don't want the signal generator (-S) and don't really care about the logic analyser upgradability (PLUS), why not buy a DS1054Z?
 

Offline garlicbread

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Re: DS1074Z-PLUS / DS1074Z-PLUS-S
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2016, 09:33:12 PM »
I was thinking about upgrading to the logic analyser later on
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: DS1074Z-PLUS / DS1074Z-PLUS-S
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2016, 10:18:58 PM »
I was thinking about upgrading to the logic analyser later on

If logic analyser is important then the one in the DS1000Z isn't very good. Maybe a dedicated analyser like Saleae would be a better choice.
 

Offline analog_user

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Re: DS1074Z-PLUS / DS1074Z-PLUS-S
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2017, 06:20:32 PM »
Hi,
does anyone knows if it is possible to visualize que generated waves at the same time than the input channels in Rigol S models?
 

Offline hexreader

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Re: DS1074Z-PLUS / DS1074Z-PLUS-S
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2017, 07:38:04 PM »
Hi,
does anyone knows if it is possible to visualize que generated waves at the same time than the input channels in Rigol S models?
Nope, ... The only way to see the signal generator output is to feed it back into an oscilloscope channel.

You can however get basic signal generator information on screen as shown in the attachment...
 
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Offline analog_user

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Re: DS1074Z-PLUS / DS1074Z-PLUS-S
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2017, 07:58:52 PM »
Hi,
does anyone knows if it is possible to visualize que generated waves at the same time than the input channels in Rigol S models?
Nope, ... The only way to see the signal generator output is to feed it back into an oscilloscope channel.

You can however get basic signal generator information on screen as shown in the attachment...

Is it the normal behaviour in oscilloscopes with integrated waveform generators? for example Siglent S models?
 

Offline hexreader

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Re: DS1074Z-PLUS / DS1074Z-PLUS-S
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2017, 08:20:44 PM »
I know nothing of Siglent scopes, but presumably a read of the Siglent manuals would provide an answer.

Do not confuse Rigol scopes with professional ones. The Rigol MSO1000z-s series is a great hobby scope, with loads of features for little money, but the Logic Analyser and signal generator functions are poor compared with dedicated seperate devices.

For me the worst short-coming of the signal generators is that maximum positive output is +2.5 Volts - so no TTL circuit testing for me :)

... but then LA and sig gen cost little extra, so who cares if they are just toys, and extra buttons to play with. At least, that was my view.

Many dedicated signal generators have no display of actual waveform. I must admit, I don't really see it as an essential feature of a signal generator, just nice if you have it.
 
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Offline TurboTom

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Re: DS1074Z-PLUS / DS1074Z-PLUS-S
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2017, 09:08:28 PM »
The 2.5V limit is only true if you terminate the output with 50 Ohms. If you feed the signal into a high-impedance input, the voltage range will double (+-5V) which should be okay for virtaully any TTL / CMOS level input. The major drawback of the internal signal generators is their limited functionality and adjusting / controlling them through the Oscilloscope's frontend is a real PITA. The possiblility to duplicate a signal that's in the oscilloscope's sample memory (without much hassle / interconnection wiring) is a nice feature, though.

Cheers,
Thomas
 
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Offline hexreader

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Re: DS1074Z-PLUS / DS1074Z-PLUS-S
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2017, 09:40:16 PM »
The 2.5V limit is only true if you terminate the output with 50 Ohms. If you feed the signal into a high-impedance input, the voltage range will double (+-5V) which should be okay for virtaully any TTL / CMOS level input.
Cheers,
Thomas
I wish that were true, but as far as I can tell, you are wrong (sorry to be blunt). I will be the happiest hobbyist in the world if it turns out that I am wrong and you are right :)
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: DS1074Z-PLUS / DS1074Z-PLUS-S
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2017, 10:09:45 PM »
The 2.5V limit is only true if you terminate the output with 50 Ohms. If you feed the signal into a high-impedance input, the voltage range will double (+-5V) which should be okay for virtaully any TTL / CMOS level input.
Cheers,
Thomas
I wish that were true, but as far as I can tell, you are wrong (sorry to be blunt). I will be the happiest hobbyist in the world if it turns out that I am wrong and you are right :)

I don't have the -S option in my Rigol scope, but the manual for the DS1000Z PLUS-S series is consistent with TurboTom's statement:

Quote
Set the amplitude
Press Amplitude to set the amplitude of the signal. For the setting method, please refer to the introduction in "Parameter Setting Method".
When the impedance is set to HighZ, the range is from 20 mVpp to 5 Vpp; when the impedance is set to 50 ?, the range is from 10 mVpp to 2.5 Vpp.

EDIT: Hang on, actually that's not quite consistent with TurboTom. If they actually mean 5 Vpp, you can't get a +-5V swing. But the amplitude in high impedance mode should still be twice of what you get in 50 Ohm mode, and just enough for a full swing from 0V to 5V, e.g. for TTL level testing.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2017, 10:22:44 PM by ebastler »
 

Offline hexreader

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Re: DS1074Z-PLUS / DS1074Z-PLUS-S
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2017, 10:21:08 PM »
Do you mean 5v pp as in +2.5V to -2.5V?

TTL requires 0V to +5V or somewhere close.

Best my MSO1104Z-S can provide is 0V to +2.5V output (2.5V pp with +1.25V offset). Almost TTL compatible, but not quite there.

... and yes - I am talking hi-Z mode, which makes no difference to output signal, only the numbers indicated
« Last Edit: January 03, 2017, 10:27:53 PM by hexreader »
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: DS1074Z-PLUS / DS1074Z-PLUS-S
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2017, 10:24:02 PM »
Do you mean 5v pp as in +2.5V to -2.5V?

TTL requires 0V to +5V or somewhere close.

Best my MSO1104Z-S can provide is 0V to +2.5V output (2.5V pp with +1.25V offset). Almost TTL compatible, but not quite there.

Yes, I half-agree; just typed my correction above while you were posting. But there is an offset control too, so you should be able to get 0V to 5V in High Z mode, if the manual is correct.
 

Offline hexreader

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Re: DS1074Z-PLUS / DS1074Z-PLUS-S
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2017, 10:31:12 PM »
there is an offset control too, so you should be able to get 0V to 5V in High Z mode, if the manual is correct.
That was my assumption too - but I have the scope and I was wrong.

There seems to be no way to get any signal out that goes above +2.5V from ground.

..... but I knew I was buying a cheap hobby scope, so I am willing to accept the limitations with only a little disappointment.

I guess, bottom line is that the LA and signal generator functions are cheap and fun, but no substitute for a real LA and sig gen :)

Dave did a great video on why the LA is a poor substitute for real LA - so at least the poor LA performance came as no surprise.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2017, 10:45:11 PM by hexreader »
 

Offline TurboTom

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Re: DS1074Z-PLUS / DS1074Z-PLUS-S
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2017, 10:55:44 PM »
Yes, sorry I must have confused something here. Having two stand-alone generators and one DS2072A-S, I guess I messed things up. I agree with you, the limited output voltage of the Rigol DSxxxx-S generator module is a major flaw. Thanks for correcting my false statement!

Cheers,
Thomas
 


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