DSO scopes with a good interface?

[jasonbrent]

I know this is at least partially subjective, but I have quickly grown to abhor the interface on the rigol ds1054z. From the vertical space wasted on either side of the screen that doesn't disappear, the ridiculous button presses needed to remove measurements from the bottom of the screen, the inane menus and dials to change the channel for the frequency overlay, etc. It just seems poorly designed for usability. Having shared vertical and horizontal controls behind dedicated channel buttons is ok, but not preferred.

My only other scope was an old Tektronix nonDSO with tactile knobs and buttons that just made sense.

I've come to realize that lots of MHz isn't my first order concern... it is usability, especially around the DSO value adds.

(I tried to search for similar topics but didn't see obvious matches.)

Are other vendor scopes any better in the under say... 1-3k usd range?

-j

[mikeselectricstuff]

Keysight is king of the UI, has been since the Agilent days

[tautech]

UI's are to some degree a matter of personal preference but along with that goes scope experience.
Most DSO's to various degrees attempt to emulate a CRO experience, particularly with the displayed waveform.
Some do better than others at that and with the front panel layout so that the transition from a CRO isn't so bewildering. However with the small form factor of many DSO's, much functionality is tucked into menus and/or sub-menus.
How this is done and what shortcuts are also offered to speed scope usage is key to a good UI.

Nowdays many encoders have dual functions as well as some function buttons that offer access to menus where settings can be made OR with the ability to toggle a feature ON or OFF.

You don't have to shell out big $ to get a good and easy to use DSO these days.

[Fungus]

From the vertical space wasted on either side of the screen that doesn't disappear

How do you know it's "wasted"? The internal hardware might be designed around a 600 pixel area so turning the menu off wouldn't gain anything.

It just seems poorly designed for usability.

I'm not saying it can't be improved but it's what happens when have hundreds of functions and only a few buttons. Don't expect any other DSOs to be significantly better.

FWIW: All functions can be controlled via a simple ASCII interface (you can telnet to the 'scope). Maybe you could add a little box at the side of it with a few more buttons for common tasks.

the ridiculous button presses needed to remove measurements from the bottom of the screen

eg. Send this to clear ITEM1 from the screen:

:MEASure:CLEar ITEM1

...or to clear all measurements:

:MEASure:CLEar ALL

My only other scope was an old Tektronix nonDSO with tactile knobs and buttons that just made sense.

It also had a fraction of the functions of your DSO. Try restricting yourself to using only the functions that the Tek had and you'll find the interface isn't really much different.

[nctnico]

Keysight is king of the UI, has been since the Agilent days

I beg to differ. I like the GW Instek UI much better than the Agilent DSO7104A I had. Doing something simple like changing the probe multiplication factor and unit is real chore on the DSO7104A. The GW Instek OTOH even has a dedicated 10X button because that is the most used setting.

[rsjsouza]

Ok, just another personal preference: I like the UI of my DS4014 and I liked the UI of my old DS1102E. I also like the UI of the Keysights 2000 and 3000 series. I don't like the UIs of the Tek TDS7104 or the TDS3054. I can't speak about others.

[Gyro]

From the vertical space wasted on either side of the screen that doesn't disappear

How do you know it's "wasted"? The internal hardware might be designed around a 600 pixel area so turning the menu off wouldn't gain anything.

That's something that bugs me with most of these DSOs. With a vertical screen resolution of 480 pixels (480x800), they can't even display two non-overlapping full scale 8-bit waveforms, let alone four... and that's before the wasted space.

[jasonbrent]

The keysight 3000t 4 channel 100mhz lists around 4200, but has 30pct off with practically any trade in for this month it seems.

Which is the point my wife would shoot me...

[LaurentR]

Despite some quirks in the interface, the 10" touchscreen of the R&R RTB2000 adds greatly to the usability. YMMV wrt some related design choices like the lack of individual vertical controls.

One thing where that scope blows away the competition is the web interface. No plug-in needed, full control and no lag. It is pretty incredible. I didn't think I would spend any time on it (I certainly didn't on the DS1000Z), but viewing waveforms, moving stuff around with a mouse and scrolling through segments with the mouse wheel on a 24+in screen is _very_ nice. It absolutely doesn't replace the buttons, but once you've set up your scope for the acquisition you want, it is very nice to be able to seamlessly go to the big screen + mouse.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Despite some quirks in the interface, the 10" touchscreen of the R&R RTB2000 adds greatly to the usability. YMMV wrt some related design choices like the lack of individual vertical controls.

The UI design of the RTB is mostly good, but is let down by inadequate speed in certain areas.

[Lukas]

The Keysight infiniivision win hands down. They're by far the most responsive DSOs I've come across. Spinning the timebase knob instantly updates the waveform, just like your good old analog scope.

[Someone]

The Keysight infiniivision win hands down. They're by far the most responsive DSOs I've come across. Spinning the timebase knob instantly updates the waveform, just like your good old analog scope.

It might be fast but they have a reduced number of physical controls for interacting with the dynamic onscreen content compared to the Tektronix scopes in the same brackets. I quite like the dual cursor/assignable knobs and concentric navigation knobs of the Tektronix scopes even with their slower response, and having many more menu buttons makes everything less deep on the Tek.

[PartialDischarge]

Can’t tell you about the best, but the worst I’ve used in this sense is the TDS744, it may take you 20 minutes to remove the single trigger and go to auto mode again just to give an example.

If you need a portable you may like the micsig.

[jasonbrent]

Appreciate the input folks. I know that "good" is completely subjective here. I simply haven't had exposure to many other scopes and wanted some insights. The Keysight 3KT and Tektronix MDO3K seem to be direct competitors and in the same ballpark with like for like configurations. It's pretty clear that the keysight is upgradable after purchase to the full configuration (although >350Mhz requires shipping it back), Tektronix doesn't make that information quite as clear. Maybe I'll be able to my hands on each of these at some point to see how the interface is.

Both of these offer a 4analog/100Mhz option that can be upgraded over time if necessary. Maybe I'll win one of those keysight wave bundles and this will be moot.

-j

[mikeselectricstuff]

Appreciate the input folks. I know that "good" is completely subjective here. I simply haven't had exposure to many other scopes and wanted some insights. The Keysight 3KT and Tektronix MDO3K seem to be direct competitors and in the same ballpark with like for like configurations. It's pretty clear that the keysight is upgradable after purchase to the full configuration (although >350Mhz requires shipping it back), Tektronix doesn't make that information quite as clear. Maybe I'll be able to my hands on each of these at some point to see how the interface is.

Both of these offer a 4analog/100Mhz option that can be upgraded over time if necessary. Maybe I'll win one of those keysight wave bundles and this will be moot.

-j

R&S RTM3004 is also a MSOX3KT competitor, upgradeable from base to 1GHz

[Electro Detective]

On the ' affordable / getting your feet wet on the reasonably cheap' side of things... Siglent does it for me with 4 channel DSOs in 100 or 200mhz   

All the relevant knobs and buttons are above each channel 

and has a separate trigger input, no shared 'lost' channel   


Therefore it was an easy experience jumping from CRO to DSO to CRO etc

without getting Rigol'd with shared controls BS


ok it's not that big a deal but... no, YES it is when brain space is limited on a troubleshoot or test,

I'd rather have WYSIWYG basic DSO knobbery,

and hang any features and specs I probably won't need or use on a Rigol !


Touch screen? No thanks, next we'll be stuffing about with 'apps', 'jailbreaks', 

...and 'iScope' gift card vouchers at the shopping mall   

[jasonbrent]

In the "list of vendor UIs that might not suck", the common base future upgrades appears to be 4ch/100Mhz, and these can all be upgraded to 1Ghz with real money.

Tek  MDO3014 - $4110 => hackable to 500Mhz+lots of decodes+spectrum analyzer ... easiest hack?
R&S RTM2004 - $4230 => no real discounts at the moment, not-yet-hacked?
Key  DXO3014T $4158 => 30% off with a trade in of... any oscilloscope(?), = $2,910.6 .. Appears hackable to 350Mhz, + decodes?

The keysight at ~$3k is entirely too tempting, although the Tek. appears to ultimately have more capability than the keysight.

Now for me to stop dreaming...

[Electro Detective]

Now for me to stop dreaming...

Keep dreaming and keep up with the latest  'gear I'll probably never own any time soon...' Youtube videos too   

Works for me 


unless a bargain pops up   

[Fungus]

I beg to differ. I like the GW Instek UI much better than the Agilent DSO7104A I had. Doing something simple like changing the probe multiplication factor and unit is real chore on the DSO7104A. The GW Instek OTOH even has a dedicated 10X button because that is the most used setting.

Huh? How often do you switch 1x/10x? It's usually about once a year, if ever.

[Someone]

I beg to differ. I like the GW Instek UI much better than the Agilent DSO7104A I had. Doing something simple like changing the probe multiplication factor and unit is real chore on the DSO7104A. The GW Instek OTOH even has a dedicated 10X button because that is the most used setting.

Huh? How often do you switch 1x/10x? It's usually about once a year, if ever.

If you don't have coded probes that the scope understands then it can be something that needs to be adjusted quite often when swapping between 50 ohm coax connections and probes.

[tautech]

I beg to differ. I like the GW Instek UI much better than the Agilent DSO7104A I had. Doing something simple like changing the probe multiplication factor and unit is real chore on the DSO7104A. The GW Instek OTOH even has a dedicated 10X button because that is the most used setting.

Huh? How often do you switch 1x/10x? It's usually about once a year, if ever.

If that's the case then you're not using a scope very much or just doing similar simple and menial tasks !

10x, most common normal probe usage
1x, checking PSU rails for ripple, also very common probe use case.
1x, BNC connection, eg.  monitor AWG output while with another channel checking DUT amplitude/signal integrity/phase shift.

Many other input attenuation settings are used for: Differential probes, Current Probes etc.


OR invest in a scope that does input attenuation settings automatically............

I beg to differ. I like the GW Instek UI much better than the Agilent DSO7104A I had. Doing something simple like changing the probe multiplication factor and unit is real chore on the DSO7104A. The GW Instek OTOH even has a dedicated 10X button because that is the most used setting.

Huh? How often do you switch 1x/10x? It's usually about once a year, if ever.

If you don't have coded probes that the scope understands then it can be something that needs to be adjusted quite often when swapping between 50 ohm coax connections and probes.

Exactly !

[nctnico]

I beg to differ. I like the GW Instek UI much better than the Agilent DSO7104A I had. Doing something simple like changing the probe multiplication factor and unit is real chore on the DSO7104A. The GW Instek OTOH even has a dedicated 10X button because that is the most used setting.

Huh? How often do you switch 1x/10x? It's usually about once a year, if ever.

Think about current shunts, current probes, differential probes, etc.

[rhb]

I've started a project to solve the problem.  Don't expect a finished result any time soon. but I'm assembling a Zynq dev environment and have a Zynq based Instek as a test bed.  And another Instek as motivation :-(

I know slightly more than nothing about FPGAs but I'm an old PhD level DSP guy with lots of experience optimizing code for particular machine architectures.  So the only thing I find intimidating about FPGAs is memorizing all the new acronyms and learning the software tools.

A lot of the problem is what I describe as, "Oh! You want wheels with your car?  We can do that.  Tires on the wheels?  We'll have to slip the schedule and go  over budget, but we can do that."  I worked as the lead scientific programmer on a project where the team lead had that attitude.  I was appalled.

One part of the software displayed  graphs with a vertical X axis. The whole GUI group was enthralled by "Design Patterns" .  So if the user requested 6 graphs, it drew one, erased the screen, and drew two, erased the screen and drew three and so forth until all the requested graphs had been drawn. I would sit with the scientist tasked with verifying the results of my code and he would giggle at the idiocy of it.  We've been good friends ever since.

If you'd like to contribute to the effort, creating a story board of what you want a DSO to do would be an immense help.  I'm system level guy, not a UI guy.  I know enough to realize that good general UI programmers are rare. I only know one.

The statement of work is:

Given a COTS DSO based on the Zynq, describe what the buttons should do and the screen should show.  I can do that and will if I have to.  But I can go a lot faster if I've got a good specification to follow. It would help a lot if it was based upon the Instek, but my goal is something easily configured to any  Zynq based DSO with any set of buttons and knobs.

[EE-digger]

We have 3000X and 9000A series scopes at work but also a bunch of Rigols.  I love the size of the Rigol but not the screen size as it pushes my old eyes to the limit.  Text can be too small and the color is critical.  Tiny yellow text and tiny purple text are two different things.

On the 3000X series, the UI is good and quite fast to operate.  On my 3000T at home, the touch screen is very well done with an excellent touch response and a nicely sized ascii keyboard if you don't use an external.

BUT, the 3000T, IMHO, has blown it on some of the menus.  I loved the way you could knock down measurements at a glance when you were done with them on the 2000/3000X.  The 3000T is quite a PITA now as those discrete softkeys for each measurement in use are gone and you need to scroll the knob to see your active measurements.  There are a few other PITA things like this but the scope is great in spite of that.

Agilent, err, Keysight, rules in UIs.  A few years back I heavily evaluated some brand new R&S spectrum analyzers but could not live with the extra keystrokes beyond what the HP offspring required.  Still good today and much copied.

[jasonbrent]

@rhb - I wish I could provide you some of those answers. I too consider myself someone who can tell when something doesn't feel right, but couldn't design a UI to save my life.

@EE-digger - appreciate the insights. The rigol size is good on my desk for sure, but the size of the screen is a challenge (and their "larger" font options aren't well implemented, IMO). The rigol is small enough that it's sitting on my desk under one side of my monitor.. but it's also small enough that it requires 2 hands to connect a probe so it doesn't slide off the desk.

I wonder how responsive Agilent would be to UI change suggestions.. I find that most companies don't do a good job of listening unless you are their bread and butter...

Ha ha, I wonder if my "DSLogic Logic Analyzer w/ Oscilloscope Module" counts for the keysight upgrade promo, they claim "any" oscilloscope as an acceptable trade... that'd be a good use of those kickstarter dollars.

-j