Author Topic: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread  (Read 770191 times)

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Offline Scottjd

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Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #600 on: April 18, 2018, 05:41:24 am »
Ok, so it’s a technicality but this idea might work?
You don’t BUY anymore, just do what some other youtubers do.
Contact bangood and they will send you meters. Then your not buying any of them.

There's a place that sends you free multimeters? For free?

Don't let that information reach the therapy thread.  :scared:
There’s a therapy thread? Please share, my best friend needs multimeter obsession help.  :-DD
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Online Fungus

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Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #601 on: April 18, 2018, 06:06:02 am »
There's a place that sends you free multimeters? For free?

Don't let that information reach the therapy thread.  :scared:
There’s a therapy thread? Please share, my best friend needs multimeter obsession help.  :-DD

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/
 

Offline Scottjd

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Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #602 on: April 18, 2018, 06:43:54 am »
There's a place that sends you free multimeters? For free?

Don't let that information reach the therapy thread.  :scared:
There’s a therapy thread? Please share, my best friend needs multimeter obsession help.  :-DD

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/

Awesome, thanks. I sent an email to his wife, time to set up an intervention for him. It’s for his own good, he just doesn’t know it yet. Or he’s in denial, maybe he needs to hit bottom first.
Either way, this will plant the seed and it will be up to him.
Thanks for that thread.
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Offline VEGETA

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Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #603 on: April 19, 2018, 05:46:42 am »
How much will it cost when it is ready? how much shipping to Jordan?

I am interested in it since I used to measure low value resistors (0.15) and current flowing through it but my meters weren't optimal for the job. This one should be significantly better overall.

Offline Scottjd

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Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #604 on: April 19, 2018, 10:03:33 am »
I thought they would have shipped by now. 
According to yesterday’s update I guess the shipping information update request was only for people to receive the PCB and switch fix, not for shipping meters to others. That wasn’t clear, so as it stands not ETA on when the meters will resume shipping. Well this a the official statement “ future shipments which should be commencing again shortly.”
Who knows what shortly is? With this time line I may need to update my address, or maybe not. I guess that depends on what shortly is?
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Offline Terry01

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Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #605 on: April 19, 2018, 01:53:03 pm »
I thought they would have shipped by now. 
According to yesterday’s update I guess the shipping information update request was only for people to receive the PCB and switch fix, not for shipping meters to others. That wasn’t clear, so as it stands not ETA on when the meters will resume shipping. Well this a the official statement “ future shipments which should be commencing again shortly.”
Who knows what shortly is? With this time line I may need to update my address, or maybe not. I guess that depends on what shortly is?
So much for Christmas.  Funny is that you bought it for an early review and even though we are several months into the KS, even if it takes a half year for you to see the meter, you may still be one of the first reviewers.   :-DD


Ha Ha! Hope you get it soon buddy...
Sparks and Smoke means i'm nearly there!
 

Offline Scottjd

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Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #606 on: April 20, 2018, 07:56:09 am »
I thought they would have shipped by now. 
According to yesterday’s update I guess the shipping information address update request was mostly for people receiving  the PCB and switch fix, not for shipping meters to those still waiting. That wasn’t clear on the address update request, so as it stands no ETA on when the meters will resume shipping. Well the official statement is  “future shipments which should be commencing again shortly.”
Who know what shortly is? With this time line I may need to update my address before shorty happens? I guess that depends on what shortly is defined as?
So much for Christmas.  Funny is that you bought it for an early review and even though we are several months into the KS, even if it takes a half year for you to see the meter, you may still be one of the first reviewers.   :-DD

LOL, some day, maybe someday? I know Vegeta just asked about it based on the resolution it displays for reading resistors. I thought to myself that is what I was planning for my review was accuracy of the meter at a decent price for the resolution.
I did invest a chunk of money for new precision resistors to go with the ones I already owned used in the BM235 review, and used to benchmark the HP 34401A when I received it 2 years ago. I still have the same voltage standard I built and it’s still accurate as the day I tuned it after it warms up. I hope to show that the HP bench meter hasn’t drifted in two years and it’s  still as accurate from when I did the BM235 review. Even bought a new low value capacitor standard to show higher resolution readings in these mode. Even my Fluke 289 has a hard time displaying this capacitor standard correctly unless I manually range it. I couldn’t find all the resistors ranges I wanted in a milspec 0.025% accuracy with low temperature coefficiency like the ones I already own, so some of the higher values I bought are 0.1% to 1% tolerances like the 10M ohm, 1G ohm values. I need to build a little box like yours, I bought a box for this, just never had the time to move all the resistors into the box yet.
The plan was to show the features, accuracy and precision of the 121GW compared to some bench meters and see ifs it can be a good mobile alternative,  or smaller option to save on bench space for the hobbiest. I have one 5 digit meter that is NIST certified that partially validates my 6.5 digit 34401A so I know it’s still reading accurate, and other logging meters  Fluke 289 I planed to compare with on long 24/48 hours logging sessions.   Now that I’m thinking of this again the NIST certification may be expired on the 5 digit meter now, or might be expired by the time I get the 121GW meter. But it was still valid in December and January.

Was looking forward to possible third party firmware for future features like power factor calculation readings with AC LED lights, but with the VA now limited to the 50V range I don’t think this would be possible anymore like on the mooshie meter.  I might end up buying another mooshie before I get the 121GW since technically it’s a Bluetooth logging meter for comparison if they have fixed the app issues. I did test it shortly after iOS 11, so this could have been a lot of the app and Bluetooth disconnect issues I was seeing? Or keep using a $29 kilowatt meter for power factor readings, but I was looking for the all in one meter.

Open source firmware was a selling point. Although not all open source t I think it’s been reversed engineered enough to make changes. I believe these talented coders are waiting for a near final firmware before making any bug changes. Maybe these same people that can code might make a better iOS Apple app also since to my knowledge the official EEVBlog iOS app still isn’t done.  Just a generic app from the manufacturer is available. I thought with the extra time on delays and shipping the EEVBlog iOS official app might have been completed by now? Heck, a one time bottom banner ad at the app launch during BT pairing could produce a residual income to pay for any yearly app fee, and if the meter takes off it might even turn a profit for future development and all improvements.

Since I invested money to do a good/bad review I’m trying to hang in with this. Ok,  I don’t really do “bad reviews” or thumbs down fail reviews, I try to do honest reviews for people to decide if the product is the best for the users needs. Sometimes you need more then one tool for the job, but it’s always nice if you can find one tool that does everything you need for your job. If I didn’t buy theses new resistors and capacitor standards I probably would have asked for a refund months ago.

Ideas, plans, life decisions, I seem to be waiting on other factors I don’t have any control over.  Once winter ends I can start to pack the house to sell. It was snowing again today and I have a birds that nested over my outside solar light and it’s snowing,  probably hope the LED lights will keep them warm. Since winter “supposedly” ended we have had a few nice mid 70’s days, but also a tornado that touch down, a few thunderstorms, then back to freezing and snow three more times. What weird weather this year. So I can’t sell stuff in my house to move until the weather gets nicer. So I guess the sale of the house is waiting on this, I don’t want to move everything.  Hopefully I’ll get the 121GW before the house sells, if not another address change? I would also need to set up the lab again after the move that will just delay the review and take more time. But maybe that works better since I prefer to test things for 2 to 4 weeks before doing any review. I’ve waited this long, and so have others so what’s another few weeks?
« Last Edit: April 20, 2018, 04:32:51 pm by Scottjd »
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Offline maukka

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Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #607 on: April 21, 2018, 12:13:16 pm »
FWIW here's one 121GW against Ian Johnston's PDVS2 10V reference.

PDVS2   121GW
0.5000 V   0.5000 V
1.0000 V   1.0000 V
1.5000 V   1.5000 V
2.0000 V   2.0000 V
2.5000 V   2.4999 V
3.0000 V   2.9999 V
3.5000 V   3.4999 V
4.0000 V   3.9999 V
4.5000 V   4.4999 V
5.0000 V   5.0000 V
5.5000 V   5.499 V
6.0000 V   5.999 V
6.5000 V   6.499 V
7.0000 V   6.999 V
7.5000 V   7.499 V
8.0000 V   7.999 V
8.5000 V   8.499 V
9.0000 V   8.999 V
9.5000 V   9.499 V
10.0000 V   9.999 V
 

Offline maukka

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Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #608 on: April 21, 2018, 03:22:50 pm »
Don't have the meter anymore.
 

Offline VEGETA

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Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #609 on: April 21, 2018, 11:13:27 pm »
What about its capabilities in measuring small resistances like 0.1R or so?

Offline Scottjd

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Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #610 on: April 23, 2018, 06:36:58 am »
Did you have your standards calibrated so we have some known reference? 

One of the videos I had pulled was comparing the pre-production meter with the 34401 and my BK LCR meter.   Dave had said early on that the meter may not have been in cal but I seem to recall it being pretty decent.   

OK, watching it now... Wow was it painful to watch it read a 150pf capacitor.  I wonder if the new firmware and final hardware is still this slow.   Accuracy wise, looks fairly impressive considering this was after I had damaged the meter twice and had modified it.   Looking forward to seeing the final version ran.
I have capacitor standards, as for the resistors they are just expensive Vishay mill spec low ppm high efficiency new resistors. Even if my lab temperature drifts 3 Celsius they will read the same, but my lab doesn’t drift that much. I already logged the lab temp for 48 hours and it was almost 1 degree Celsius max drift in temperature.
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Offline Scottjd

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Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #611 on: April 23, 2018, 06:39:36 am »
What about its capabilities in measuring small resistances like 0.1R or so?
I have a precision current shunt resistor for ghaynvalie, I think I own two. And I own two 4 wire kelvin miliohm meter to confirm then accuracy. So I plan to see if it can measure that low, and lower with fuses and 100mm strips of nickel since I can easily calculate the knows resistance of nickel from my battery spot welding rig. So I’ll let you know once I get mine.

But despite the resolution with it being only a 2 wire measument, I don’t expect lower reading from a handheld meter to be that accurate. It does show a higher resolution then any of the other meters I own for resistance, so it may surprise me. I’ll have to keep waiting to find out.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 06:41:38 am by Scottjd »
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Offline VEGETA

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Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #612 on: April 23, 2018, 08:12:35 am »
So for example is the Chinese LCR meter (30$) on Banggood or Aliexpress a better choice for the job than this expensive DMM?

Offline BravoV

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Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #613 on: April 23, 2018, 09:06:11 am »
So for example is the Chinese LCR meter (30$) on Banggood or Aliexpress a better choice for the job than this expensive DMM?

Even better, a $5 cheap DMM + a cheap DIY constant current power supply, will make you able to measure sub 1 Ohm quite accurate, as long you understand the principal of 4 wires measurement.

2 wires probe DMM even the expensive one, can NOT measure sub 1 Ohm reliably.

Offline VEGETA

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Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #614 on: April 23, 2018, 09:09:28 am »
So for example is the Chinese LCR meter (30$) on Banggood or Aliexpress a better choice for the job than this expensive DMM?

Even better, a $5 cheap DMM + a cheap DIY constant current power supply, will make you able to measure sub 1 Ohm quite accurate, as long you understand the principal of 4 wires measurement.

2 wires probe DMM even the expensive one, can NOT measure sub 1 Ohm reliably.

I came to realize that by practice after making 0.15R resistor out of 15 1.5R ones to act as a power resistor. It gets even worse when I connected my multimeter to measure current passing through it, then multimeter internal resistance was added to make the whole measurement unreliable.


Offline HKJ

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Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #615 on: April 23, 2018, 09:13:38 am »
I came to realize that by practice after making 0.15R resistor out of 15 1.5R ones to act as a power resistor. It gets even worse when I connected my multimeter to measure current passing through it, then multimeter internal resistance was added to make the whole measurement unreliable.

If you want about basic current measurement, maybe my article can help: https://lygte-info.dk/info/DMMCurrent%20UK.html
 

Offline BravoV

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Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #616 on: April 23, 2018, 09:14:04 am »
I came to realize that by practice after making 0.15R resistor out of 15 1.5R ones to act as a power resistor. It gets even worse when I connected my multimeter to measure current passing through it, then multimeter internal resistance was added to make the whole measurement unreliable.

Either you've made a mistake, or you have a really crappy DMM that has internal resistance is so low in voltage mode that affect that kind of reading.

Offline coromonadalix

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Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #617 on: April 23, 2018, 09:49:33 am »
if youre able to zero out the leads impedance with the meter, it may do some 0.x ohms resistors, but an dmm is not an milliohms tester with or without 4 wire modes, it has is limits too, unless specefically built for that ...

the video give an good example of low impedance measurements

@vegeta
I think youve made an error to put the meter in parallel with your 0.15 ohm resistor, you measure current in serie
 
To minimize the chance of blowing fuses or overheating the meter, i use a precision 0.1 ohms 20watt,  put the load in serie with ac or dc current,  with the formula    V = R x I

I read in millivolts the voltage across the load and do the maths,  it save tons of expensives fuses if it goes wrong.   0.1 ohm is 1/10th of the current value passing thru and read in an dmm, 

For more precise current measurements, you have clamp meters, or clamp meter attachements for dmm's, they can be very precise and go very low in current in some models, you can zero the inputs too...
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 10:05:53 am by coromonadalix »
 

Offline Scottjd

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Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #618 on: April 23, 2018, 10:23:33 am »
So I’ve been testing this meter, I bought two of them. One from Ebay and one from Amazon. The Amazon came with the Kevin clips also that are useful.
I usually test thing thoroughly before I recommend them, and this meter is not advertised as a miliohm meter. It’s desinged and sold as a battery internal resistance tester. I’ve compared this to three others for batteries and this is the only one that meets the standard these days that battery manufactures are using to measuring the IR of high current discharge battery cells. All my knows cells from data sheets match near perfect when I use this meter. The battery IR standard is using a 1Khz AC signal with a known current. Both are almost exactly 1Khz compared to others that allowed a 10% variance and gave bad results.

Then I realized this could probably also do miliohm measuments since the signal and current are so stable and accurate. So far they have worked great. I’ve measured accurately down to 6.9 miliohms from a known part and lower but not confirmed if the lower readings were accurate. For example and pure nickel strip best for carrying currents between battery lithium cells from 10 to 15 amps that is 0.15mm thick, by 8mm wide and 100mm long should measure at 6.9 miliohms. Unfortunately a lot of sellers on eBay sell “pure nickel”, but it’s realy nickel plated steel/iron. Nickel plated with the same size will only carry 2 to 7 amps. The variance realy depends on the quality of your spot weld, but either ways that’s a big difference. Nicrome wire is another know easy to measure material by gauge and length, so then I realized I can confirm fake counterfeit fuses from real fuses with this meter also, and it worked great.

So if you want a cheap and accurate way to measure miliohms that you can also use to measure internal resistance of batteries with I recommend you try this meter. It’s a little more on the affordable side compared to other meters with the same accuracy and performance. The one downfall is because it’s not officially a meter like a DMM it’s not fused and has no protection like PTC to clamps down. This shouldn’t be used to try and measure any current accross something except for on batteries as it’s designed. It works on lithium, LiFe, alkaline and every type of cell I’ve tested so far.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0768WQJQC/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I usually don’t talk about my reviews and upcoming videos I’m working on, but since this seems to be a hot topic lately and some ones asked me if I have and English version of the manual I figured I would add this. So I’ve also attached the draft translation of the manual, this is not completed yet, it’s about 85% done being translated and compared to the features of the meters I’m testing. If someone else owns this meters d would like to help translate and formate parts I haven’t finished near the end to a sensible translation (not translations from google or bing that have sentences that are lost in translation and don’t make sense) then let me know. I have the soft version and the draft in a word doc for easy editing.
I hope to have the review video completed soon on this meter.

I hope this helps, now we can return to the regularly scheduled topic of this thread.  :-DD
Scott

Ok, now I’m going back to sleep. Have fun.
Edit, fixed half a sleep spelling errors.  |O
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 10:33:18 am by Scottjd »
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Offline HKJ

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Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #619 on: April 23, 2018, 10:48:21 am »
So if you want a cheap and accurate way to measure miliohms that you can also use to measure internal resistance of batteries with I recommend you try this meter.

"This little meter" is easy to get from China in two different versions, I have done review of both:

YR1030: https://lygte-info.dk/review/InternalResistanceMeterYR1030%20UK.html
YR1035: https://lygte-info.dk/review/InternalResistanceMeterYR1035%20UK.html

But if you buy from China you risk getting a model with only Chinese text (It is not that big of a problem).
 

Offline Scottjd

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Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #620 on: April 23, 2018, 11:27:32 am »
This is the word doc I anyone else want to make corrections to the manual.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 01:22:52 pm by Scottjd »
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Offline HKJ

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Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #621 on: April 23, 2018, 11:47:26 am »
battery company that went out of buisness.

No company went out of business. There website is here: http://www.vapcelltech.com/  with recent updates.

maybe to see if you had a user manual.

I do have a English user manual (photos) for the old version, but the new version has a few changes.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 12:35:03 pm by HKJ »
 

Offline Scottjd

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Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #622 on: April 23, 2018, 12:16:51 pm »
battery company that went out of buisness.

No company went out of business.

maybe to see if you had a user manual.

I was told by several that VapeCell went out of buisness. They only relabeled the meter, I wasn’t saying the one who makes it went out of buisness. But at the time when I researched it the valecell domain was sold off, the Skype account was closed, the email was rejected by the server for unknown recipient. So I confirmed it with some other contacts.  Or did they start back up again? This was in November or December I think.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 12:19:09 pm by Scottjd »
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Offline maukka

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Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #623 on: April 23, 2018, 12:23:30 pm »
For example and pure nickel strip best for carrying currents between battery lithium cells from 10 to 15 amps that is 0.15mm thick, by 8mm wide and 100mm long should measure at 6.9 miliohms.

Sorry about the offtopic.

That's a nice tip, but are you sure it's true? I don't have a big enough stock to test and verify, but to determine if my Chinese strips are pure or just plated I have tried to dremel them and see if sparks fly or scratch them and put into salt water for a couple of days to see if they rust.




I just measured a couple nickel strips one of which I suspected to be nickel plated steel judging by the mentioned tests (it sparked when ground and rusted faster although took several days), but the resistance isn't that far off taking into account the thickness.

Strip 1: 8 x 0.27 mm:   5.70 mOhm (/10 cm) (suspected real deal)
Strip 2: 10 x 0.20 mm: 6.87 mOhm (/10 cm) (suspected nickel plated steel)


 

Offline Scottjd

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Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #624 on: April 23, 2018, 01:20:05 pm »
Valid question, truth be told their is not much of a difference between them as you will see in the picture. But it was enough to confirm the roll I bought was real. And you rod need both pieces to be exactly the same strips in length width and thickness for a fair comparison for any of these tests to be valid.
You will also see an obvious difference in the plating texture in the pictures.
I’ve had some other thoughts also, but haven’t tried them yet. I’m not patient for some things and want the easy test now answer.
One of my other thoughts was the putting 10 amps through both and messing with the FLIR.  Ignore the temperature reading due to the in the metal reflective emissivity, but you should still see the colors indicate what one gets hotter over a minute.

I really notice the difference when welding, the nickel will burn through easier if the current is up to high. Or the steel plated will need you to turn up the machine to get a good weld.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 01:58:13 pm by Scottjd »
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