Author Topic: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A  (Read 30304 times)

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Offline pascal_sweden

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First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« on: June 30, 2014, 07:56:18 PM »
Hello,
I wanted to check if anybody has had hands-on experience on any of the new MSO series from Rigol?

I am considering to buy a new scope now, and am thinking about MSO1074Z, as it seems to have everything I need.
4 Channels is very handy.

Anybody who has tried this scope already and has some early feedback?
« Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 07:05:34 PM by pascal_sweden »
 

Offline jeanberf

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Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2074A
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2014, 12:53:45 AM »
Hello,
I have exactly the same concern as this news products have been released only a few weeks ago.
They really seems nice but have some feedback experience would help us a lot.
Regards
Jean-Bernard
 

Offline WesleyK

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Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2074A
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2014, 05:18:16 PM »
Same here,
I'm planning on buying a DS2072A but might as well be buying a MSO2072A instead. Only thing that worries me is the hack-ability of the new models. And do these MSOs also decode the logic analyzer inputs? I believe they do but I cannot seem to find any videos/experiences on this.

I would be great if somebody could tell more about this.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2014, 01:00:21 AM by WesleyK »
 

Online Fred27

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Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2074A
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2014, 08:25:03 PM »
Are they even available yet?
 

Offline WesleyK

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Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2074A
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2014, 08:49:39 PM »
Batronix seems to have them in stock:
http://batronix.com/shop/rigol/MSO2000A.html
 

Offline MarcelM

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Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2074A
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2014, 10:09:11 PM »
Batronix seems to have them in stock:
http://batronix.com/shop/rigol/MSO2000A.html
I ordered one from them, expecting a shipment confirmation today or tomorrow...
I'm hopeful on the upgrade-ability, as they seem to use the same firmware as the DS2000a series...

Regards,
Marcel
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Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2074A
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2014, 03:07:26 AM »
Keep us posted Marcel!

Like to hear more about overall performance, and decoding options on the Digital Logical Analyzer.
I am actually wondering if it would have a more powerful CPU under the hood compared to the little brother without the LA option.
Strictly speaking it should have! More options need more power.

Is there any information menu where the CPU model/performance and system memory can be checked?

Hopefully the first initial models will have final PCB board layout and not any bridges with wires. Some "Rigol Take apart" movies showed that this was the case on some early MSO4000 models, which cost extremely much, and which for me would not be acceptable in that price range =)
 

Offline MarcelM

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Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2074A
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2014, 08:31:49 AM »
OK, got a tracking number, MSO2072A is on its way to me.
Should arrive tomorrow, will take a peek inside and look for patches...
If there's interest, I can take some pictures of the inside...

Regards,
Marcel
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Offline MarcelM

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Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2074A
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2014, 05:46:38 PM »
OK, my new toy arrived!
It is an MSO2074A, reporting the following:
- Serial number is DS2F.........
- Software version is 00.03.00.SP1
- Hardware version is 2.2

First impressions are that this is a really nice tool that should serve me well for years to come.

I don't know what to make of the SP1 at the end of the SW version number...
Does it mean that there is now another layer of security to prevent unlocking?

Should I now get a JTAG tool to dump the memory contents of the Blackfin?

Regards,
Marcel
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Offline tinhead

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Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2074A
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2014, 05:56:58 PM »
I don't want to be human! I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter ...
I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me.
 

Online Fred27

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Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2074A
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2014, 07:00:49 PM »
When I was originally looking at scopes I considered the DS1052D (i.e. the MSO version of the classic  DS1052E). Whilst it initially looked nice for the sort of work I do, I discounted it because the digital and analogue sides seemed separate. If you had an analogue and digital signal on screen at the same time they weren't quite in sync. Someone uploaded a helpful YouTube video of this. I'd be interested to know if this exhibits the same issue.
 

Offline WesleyK

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Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2074A
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2014, 07:38:00 PM »
Could you post a link to that video? I'm also interested in getting the MSO variant, as long as its hackable but if the analog and digital signals aren't in sync, I might just as well get a DS2072 instead.
 

Offline MarcelM

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Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2074A
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2014, 09:01:27 PM »

It is an MSO2074A:


???

Strike that, it's an MSO2072A

(got caught out by the subject title)

Rgds,
Marcel
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Offline MarcelM

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Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2072A
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2014, 10:23:13 PM »
Some more info on what software / firmware is in the new MSO2072A (delivered yesterday)

Model:  MSO2072A
Serial:   DS2F161......
Software version: 00.03.00.01.03
FPGA version:
  SPU : 04.00.07
  WPU: 01.01.03
  CCU: 12.29.00
  MCU: 02.44
  LAU : 01.01.03

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Online Fred27

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Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2074A
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2014, 12:58:53 AM »
Could you post a link to that video? I'm also interested in getting the MSO variant, as long as its hackable but if the analog and digital signals aren't in sync, I might just as well get a DS2072 instead.
I can't get to YouTube at work but a search for DS1052D review should do it.
 

Offline AintBigAintClever

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Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2074A
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2014, 08:37:30 PM »
I'd be wary of updating it right now. 3.x firmware knows what to do with MSO hardware, but the modified 2.x firmware used to dump the keys?

Better off using a method that doesn't involve flashing with older firmware, such as JTAG as mentioned above. This post would be a good place to start.
 

Offline Mark_O

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Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2074A
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2014, 12:31:01 AM »
When I was originally looking at scopes I considered the DS1052D (i.e. the MSO version of the classic  DS1052E). Whilst it initially looked nice for the sort of work I do, I discounted it because the digital and analogue sides seemed separate.

That's unfortunate.  "seemed" is the operative word there.   :--

Quote
If you had an analogue and digital signal on screen at the same time they weren't quite in sync.  Someone uploaded a helpful YouTube video of this.

I wouldn't consider it very helpful... since it was wrong.    :palm:

Quote
I'd be interested to know if this exhibits the same issue.

I'm sure someone could make a similar defective test, and make it appear so.   |O
 

Offline MarcelM

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Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2074A
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2014, 05:45:55 AM »
I took some pictures of the internals of my new MSO2072A
If anyone's intrested, I can post them here...

In the meantime, I've ordered an Olimex ARM-USB-OCD-H to make a memorydump.
After that, I'll post a link to Tirulerbach and ask him nicely to look into it.

Best Regards,
Marcel
« Last Edit: July 06, 2014, 05:25:37 PM by MarcelM »
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Offline MarcelM

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Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2074A
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2014, 07:05:24 PM »
Keep us posted Marcel!

Like to hear more about overall performance, and decoding options on the Digital Logical Analyzer.
I am actually wondering if it would have a more powerful CPU under the hood compared to the little brother without the LA option.
Strictly speaking it should have! More options need more power.
From looking at the PCB, it seems that LA functionality is (mostly) embedded in a third FPGA, most probably also a Spartan6). A closeup of the CPU shows it is still a BlackFin526
Quote
Is there any information menu where the CPU model/performance and system memory can be checked?
not that I know of, but I haven't yet spent a lot of time with it..
Quote
Hopefully the first initial models will have final PCB board layout and not any bridges with wires. Some "Rigol Take apart" movies showed that this was the case on some early MSO4000 models, which cost extremely much, and which for me would not be acceptable in that price range =)
No worries there, the PCB looks very clean to me, no obvious patchwork.

I did find a row of resistors marked "Hardware Version", probably to identify the board revision level to the software. Alternatively, it is possible that these indicate factory-installed options...

As long as my MSO is open on the workbench (waiting for my JTAG pod to arrive) I can take pictures of specific details...
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Electronics is FUN !
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... Call, and we'll talk consultancy rates ...
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Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2072A
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2014, 06:56:19 PM »
Anybody who has bought a MSO1074Z and wants to share some experiences? Hopefully the PCB board there is also a clean design, without any last-minute fixes and wire bridges.

Regarding the CPU in MSO1074Z and MSO2072A. Is there a big difference in performance?

What does the MSO2072A have, that the MSO1074Z does not have?
Is it correct that it is only a bit faster, has deeper memory, and can handle higher bandwidth?

But if you do not need the higher bandwidth and the deeper memory, it is probably better to go for the 4 channels right?
Patching the MSO1074Z up to 300 MHz, and going for the optional increased memory depth, should be more than enough for my expected application area,
and I really appreciate the 4 channels.

 

Offline MarcelM

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Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2072A
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2014, 09:10:06 PM »
Anybody who has bought a MSO1074Z and wants to share some experiences? Hopefully the PCB board there is also a clean design, without any last-minute fixes and wire bridges.

Regarding the CPU in MSO1074Z and MSO2072A. Is there a big difference in performance?

What does the MSO2072A have, that the MSO1074Z does not have?
Is it correct that it is only a bit faster, has deeper memory, and can handle higher bandwidth?
For one thing, the MSO2000A does up to 2GSa/s, where the MSO1074Z tops out at 1GSa/s.
(If you actually want to use more than 2 channels, this tops out at 250MSa/s)
So 300MHz is really only achievable if you're running 1 channel only.
Quote
But if you do not need the higher bandwidth and the deeper memory, it is probably better to go for the 4 channels right?
Patching the MSO1074Z up to 300 MHz, and going for the optional increased memory depth, should be more than enough for my expected application area,
and I really appreciate the 4 channels.
If you don't need the higher bandwidth, why bother with the 300MHz?
When using more than 1 channel, you Nyquist frequency is at 250 MHz (125Mhz for more than 2 channels), meaning that all that extra bandwidth is used for aliasing high-frequency noise and signals...
I find that, for most of my (mainly digital) design work, the 16 digital channels more than make up for the fact I have only 2 analog channels...
In my opinion, if you can swallow the price difference and don't absolutely need more than 2 ANALOG channels, go for the MSO2000A series...

Just my $0,02

Regards,
Marcel
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Electronics is FUN !
If you want me to take it seriously,
... Call, and we'll talk consultancy rates ...
--------------------------------------------
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2014, 10:13:42 PM »
Good point actually.

4 ANALOG channels should not be needed, as the majority of the oscilloscopes in university labs have only 2 ANALOG channels.

My work area is mainly digital as well.

Using 4 channels at the same time will probably also slow down the overall performance.
And if the input is digital, you should not sacrifice the analog channel, but use the MSO channel :)
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2014, 10:41:45 PM »
Very recent YouTube movie about MSO2072A:


Who will make one for the MSO1074Z? :)
 

Offline WesleyK

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Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2014, 11:02:49 PM »
So they are doing an unboxing of a brand new 2014 released scope, and are using something that looks like a VHS camcorder to do so?  :palm:
« Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 11:09:10 PM by WesleyK »
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2014, 11:57:32 PM »
Anybody with more feedback about the MSO2072A or the MSO1074Z?

If you are doing digital design 2 analog channels are more than enough given that you have 16 digital channels.
So that makes me conclude to go for the MSO2072A. Now just need more feedback on it from users who bought it, opened it, used it, are happy or have remarks :)
 


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