Author Topic: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator  (Read 549489 times)

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Offline tsman

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The big dialog box is asking if you want to upgrade the firmware? don't interrupt the firmware update process or you'll brick it.
The little dialog box is saying USB connection error.
 

Offline DaveR

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Just standard warnings and messages then - but what's the mention of USB in the big box, and why the USB error message when the USB connection is already working?  It looks like the whole process isn't quite ready for rollout yet.
 

Offline soundtec

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Thanks for the translation TSman.

To get the the chinese software to display properly in xp I had to go to control panel , regional and language options .then tick the box for east asian languages ,when you press apply you will be asked to insert the win xp installation disk . Some files copied over from the disk ,although I think I needed a couple of extra files that couldnt be accessed on the cd for some reason .
Once that is done then go to the advanced tab ,select chinese(prc) as the default language for non unicode programs , then reboot ,
Now your chinese software package should load up ok with the correct fonts . Windows 7 is very similar so its almost the same procedure. Win 10 I dont know how to fix ,but it should be possible .

I did also have a go at trying to make the chinese installer display in English , I tried loads of ways to do it including Indigo rose setup factory trial,resource hacker ,resource tuner and microsoft applocale ,none of these programs made  the program display in English though. 
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 08:11:10 pm by soundtec »
 

Offline tsman

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what's the mention of USB in the big box
It says during the upgrade, make sure not to disconnect the USB connection between the computer and the signal generator.

The two dialog boxes don't give any useful information about the upgrade process or the bootloader unfortunately.

why the USB error message when the USB connection is already working?
As you said, it is just a generic error. It must be expecting a specific response and it isn't getting it so just says USB connection error. The actual USB connection itself is okay.

It might be worthwhile to run a USB sniffer like Wireshark and work out what exactly it is sending. Working out the expected response may not be easy without disassembling the PC tool or sniffing the traffic on a FY6800 unit if that does accept an upgrade.
 

Offline rhb

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Does anyone have a comparison of the HP 33120A to a F***Tech FY-6600?  In particular jitter, but general performance also.

The last few months I've bough a bunch of 90's vintage HP gear.  The user experience is so much better that I really don't  feel much like messing with this turkey.  My programmers arrived, so  I can repackage the thing into a PC interface unit, but I'm increasingly beginning to despise Chinese T & M gear.

If anyone in the US is interested in a V 3.0 60 MHz FY-6600 PM me so we can discuss.  I mounted a 3 wire IEC socket the day before it borked itself.  Ran great for 2-3 hours.  I turned it off and went to bed.  Next day it had the classic screen corruption.

I look at 2 shelves of HP gear and I look at the F***Tech and I'm left thinking WTF am I doing with this?
 

Offline SMB784

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Does anyone have a comparison of the HP 33120A to a F***Tech FY-6600?  In particular jitter, but general performance also.

The last few months I've bough a bunch of 90's vintage HP gear.  The user experience is so much better that I really don't  feel much like messing with this turkey.  My programmers arrived, so  I can repackage the thing into a PC interface unit, but I'm increasingly beginning to despise Chinese T & M gear.

If anyone in the US is interested in a V 3.0 60 MHz FY-6600 PM me so we can discuss.  I mounted a 3 wire IEC socket the day before it borked itself.  Ran great for 2-3 hours.  I turned it off and went to bed.  Next day it had the classic screen corruption.

I look at 2 shelves of HP gear and I look at the F***Tech and I'm left thinking WTF am I doing with this?

I can't speak to the user interface quality of the HP, but the specs from the FY6600 are undoubtedly better than the 33120A.

The FY6600 has a 6 times larger sample rate, more than 10 times more waveform storage, 2 more bits of amplitude resolution, 4 times higher sine wave bandwidth and much better square wave bandwidth, and 6 times better jitter on triangle/arb waveforms. The HP doesn't list square wave jitter specs, but if it operates at all like the FY6600, I would wager that is jitter is also one sample clock, so probably 25ns on the square edge, which is also 6 times worse than the FY6600.

The harmonic distortion figures and spectral purity may be better, I don't know the FY6600 specs offhand, and the HP may also be better at modulation, but overall the FY6600 absolutely blows the HP out of the water specs wise, and at the price point is basically impossible to beat.

You would likely be better served just buying a new FY6600/6800 and modding it.

If you are curious, here is the spec sheet for your HP device:
HP 33120A Datasheet
« Last Edit: May 28, 2018, 05:58:14 am by SMB784 »
 
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Online Miti

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Try to power it up while pressing 1, 2 or more random buttons. You may find something.

The engineering mode for frquency calibration is entered by pressing and holding the front panel power and Ch1 buttons whilst turning on the main power switch at the back.  It's probably the same, or something very similar (Power + ?), to go into update mode (assuming v3.2 has one).

I tried pressing Power and Ch1 while turning the power on, but I just hear the relays clicking and it goes in stand by mode. What's the procedure to do the frequency calibration? Is it done through the FP or PC?
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Offline soundtec

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They quote a figure of .5% for thd in the fy6600 ,at audio frequencies its probably bit better .

Hi Miti , its the fp you use to get the freq cal mode , Hold fp powerbutton and ch1 down ,then switch on the power at the back of the unit ,hold the buttons for a second or two and release , now when you enter the system mode you'll see the freq cal in blue at the end of the screen .Once you've adjusted your offset power it off and back on .
 

Online Miti

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Thanks soundtec! I just want to mention that I had to long press the encoder button for it to save the calibration.
Boy, that's much better but the amount of jitter in that oscillator is unbelievable.
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Offline SMB784

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Boy, that's much better but the amount of jitter in that oscillator is unbelievable.

Interestingly enough, the square wave (jitter only arises in square wave signals) jitter specs are competitive with if not entirely better than any of the lower spec (but much higher price) signal generators from HP, Rigol, and Siglent
 
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Offline rhb

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FWIW The Keysight 33622A jitter is <1 pS.   Of course, even used it is ~30x the price.

And jitter *will* be applicable to *any* AWG output.  But perhaps not as noticeable.  On a sine wave it will show up as THD and phase noise.
 

Online Miti

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The sweep of a 10.7MHz ceramic filter using FY6600.
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Offline DPA31

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Hi Derkammi,
You performed a real great job on the schematics.

About the FP, on my board I noticed  :

R2 = RT1 = 1K

and I have a slight difference with R3 & R4 : 5.1 K (see attached pic) measured 5K

Thks.
Dom.
 

Offline soundtec

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Just for the sake of comparison I measured R3/R4 in my 6800 , 5.15 and 5.13 kohms .
Went back and measured R3/R4 in the 6600 found both were 5.02 kohms .
Im not sure if precision is really required here , I need to refer back to the schem.
 
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Online Miti

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Fremen67,

I just received my bluepill. It doesn't seem to work for me. It is detected, I can adjust things, I hear the relay clicking when the amplitude reaches about 5V but there's nothing coming out of either channel. FY6600 Ver. 3.3 with bluepill V0.7.
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Offline fremen67

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Fremen67,

I just received my bluepill. It doesn't seem to work for me. It is detected, I can adjust things, I hear the relay clicking when the amplitude reaches about 5V but there's nothing coming out of either channel. FY6600 Ver. 3.3 with bluepill V0.7.
Hi miti,
Thank you for the feedback,
I converted and flashed your v3.3 dump to my test 6600 and had the same behaviour.
DC is still working for me. Can you confirm that it is still working for you? If you have time, you can try flashing your 6600 with a v3.2 flash dump. It should work.
I also tested bluepill on the 6800 I received today (v1.6) and have the same problem. Only DC is still working with bluepill. I should be able to find the protocol modifications with my LA. Hopefully they will be the same on 6600 v3.3.

@cybermaus: As my minipro was connected to the FY6600 I also tried with a v3.1 dump. I can also reproduce the problem you have. It comes from the FPGA continuously reporting after the init that the flash is busy, which blocks the flash read test. A time-out will solve the problem in the next blepill version.
I attached the converted v3.3 flash dump plus a photo, just for teasing ;-)
I'm a machine! And I can know much more! I can experience so much more. But I'm trapped in this absurd body!
 

Online Miti

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Hi fremen67,

Yes DC seems to respond but the level is way off. It is almost double of what I set.
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Offline fremen67

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Hi fremen67,

Yes DC seems to respond but the level is way off. It is almost double of what I set.
OK. Strange. Did you use 50 ohms output load ?

Just for the records. A FY6800 v1.6 flash dump.
I'm a machine! And I can know much more! I can experience so much more. But I'm trapped in this absurd body!
 

Offline LeSilverFox

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@Miti

May I ask about your setup for the swept filter pictures you posted. Is your 6600 model with the blue-pill board? and are you creating a ramp signal on CH2 and feeding it into vco-in?
I can’t seem to get it right with my unmoded 6600. If I use an external ramp, can get it similar waveform but not with the 6600 alone. Admittedly, not very experienced in this field.
Thanks for any hints.
 

Online Miti

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OK. Strange. Did you use 50 ohms output load ?


Nope  :-[ I did not. But now that I did is still off. Below is a list of DC voltages with and without 50 ohm load.

Set  Measured 50Ohm  Measured HiZ
1V   0.76                      1.53
2V   1.52                      3.03
3V   2.37                      4.70
4V   3.45                      6.26
5V   3.95                      7.79
-1V  -0.75                    -1.5
-2V  -1.50                    -3.01
-3V  -2.34                    -4.64
-4V  -3.11                    -6.17
-5V  -3.89                    -7.71

Using the FP I get about half of the set value which is weird. I would expect the value on the display to be the real output voltage and not a would be peak to peak ... which doesn't happen since we're talking DC.
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Online Miti

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    @Miti

    May I ask about your setup for the swept filter pictures you posted. Is your 6600 model with the blue-pill board? and are you creating a ramp signal on CH2 and feeding it into vco-in?
    I can’t seem to get it right with my unmoded 6600. If I use an external ramp, can get it similar waveform but not with the 6600 alone. Admittedly, not very experienced in this field.
    Thanks for any hints.

    No and no, it is a 6600 using the front panel and I'm not creating any ramp, is way easier than that:

    Set CH1 of 6600 to SINE, 10.7MHz and connect it to the input of the spectrum analyzer.
    Set the output level to get about 0dBm on the SA.
    Set the 6600 to sweep between about 9.5MHz and about 12MHz (for a 10.7MHz filter)
    Set the SA span to match the generator sweep.
    Turn on MAX HOLD on your SA and observe that it generates a flat response
    Now insert the filter between the 6600 and the SA, disable MAX HOLD to clear the trace and enable it again

    After few minutes you'll see the filter response. It is not 100 accurate though, the ceramic filters are not 50Ohm but is close enough.[/list]

    Edit: I forgot about setting the SA span to match the generator sweep.
    « Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 07:27:10 pm by Miti »
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    Offline radiolistener

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    Below is a list of DC voltages with and without 50 ohm load.

    At least it has almost 50 Ohm output impedance  :)

    Code: [Select]
    SET 50 Hi-Z Z [Ohm]
    1V 0.76 1.53 49.67
    2V 1.52 3.03 50.17
    3V 2.37 4.7 50.43
    4V 3.45 6.26 55.11
    5V 3.95 7.79 50.71
    -1V -0.75 -1.5 50.00
    -2V -1.5 -3.01 49.83
    -3V -2.34 -4.64 50.43
    -4V -3.11 -6.17 50.41
    -5V -3.89 -7.71 50.45
    « Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 10:20:27 pm by radiolistener »
     

    Online Miti

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    Below is a list of DC voltages with and without 50 ohm load.

    At least it has almost 50 Ohm output impedance  :)

    Code: [Select]
    SET 50 Hi-Z Z [Ohm]
    1V 0.76 1.53 49.67
    2V 1.52 3.03 50.17
    3V 2.37 4.7 50.43
    4V 3.45 6.26 55.11
    5V 3.95 7.79 50.71
    -1V -0.75 -1.5 50.00
    -2V -1.5 -3.01 49.83
    -3V -2.34 -4.64 50.43
    -4V -3.11 -6.17 50.41
    -5V -3.89 -7.71 50.45

    After replacing the op-amps with THS3095. I haven't checked before.
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    Offline cybermaus

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    @cybermaus: As my minipro was connected to the FY6600 I also tried with a v3.1 dump. I can also reproduce the problem you have. It comes from the FPGA continuously reporting after the init that the flash is busy, which blocks the flash read test. A time-out will solve the problem in the next blepill version.
    I attached the converted v3.3 flash dump plus a photo, just for teasing ;-)

    I just got back from all my work-trips yesterday, should be trip-less for a few weeks, so maybe I can participate again.
    As to the 3.1: Good to know, thanks. However, I still have it on 3.2 Winbond, with no averse effects, so I will keep it like that.

     

    Offline rf-loop

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    Boy, that's much better but the amount of jitter in that oscillator is unbelievable.

    Interestingly enough, the square wave (jitter only arises in square wave signals) jitter specs are competitive with if not entirely better than any of the lower spec (but much higher price) signal generators from HP, Rigol, and Siglent

    Facts and fictions are not often equal. Do you have any data behind your claim or is just trumpth instead of truth.
    Manufacturer is perhaps not interest about facts (ref. published some kind of details/specs) but if any other have facts, please do not hide facts.


    Where I can find manufacturer published FY6600 jitter specifications based to reliable measurements for Square wave (or what ever wave) or even somehow trusted third party measured data.

    Example Siglent low end SDG1000X series:'
    Square wave and Pulse Max (aka worst case)
    Jitter (rms), Cycle to cycle 300 ps + 0.05 ppm of period



    In this image just one real measurement for simple example. (freq selected so that it is not any "golden" freq related to reference and/or sampling rate (what is 150MSa/s in SDG1000X)
    Of course Arb have cycle-cycle peak peak jitter 6.7ns (1000/150) excluding some "golden" special frequencies. Also triangle wave have this jitter. This is more (worse) than 4ns what is sampling period based jitter in FY6600 (what is FY6600 real total cycle-cycle jitter is unknown least for me without any real trusted measured data)
    Note that in example image have sum of all errors, not only generator. With this level of jitter there come also oscilloscope trigger jitter, noise and timebase jitter must be taken into account. Only what can say is that SDG jitter is unknown amount less than total jitter displayed in image.
    « Last Edit: June 11, 2018, 12:44:07 pm by rf-loop »
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    Wises must compel the mad barbarians to stop their crimes against humanity. Where have the wises gone?
     


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