Author Topic: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol  (Read 1092487 times)

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Offline Teneyes

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #550 on: January 30, 2013, 09:27:41 am »
FW 1.00.02
Hi All
   This may be only on my version, but watch out for this quirk (bug)
   While saving DSO setups to a file on USB stick, look at the funny date stamps on the files I save between 06:55 to 07:00 ,
2 files were stamped with year 2043 and 2014-9-6.
Anyone else see this.!!!
« Last Edit: January 30, 2013, 10:17:59 am by Teneyes »
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Offline Wim13

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #551 on: January 30, 2013, 04:05:41 pm »
FW 1.00.02
Hi All
   This may be only on my version, but watch out for this quirk (bug)
   While saving DSO setups to a file on USB stick, look at the funny date stamps on the files I save between 06:55 to 07:00 ,
2 files were stamped with year 2043 and 2014-9-6.
Anyone else see this.!!!

Yes, on occasion, last weeks not
 

Offline tinhead

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #552 on: January 30, 2013, 06:05:54 pm »
ui marmad .. the thread is running high :)

I'm looking for Rigol DS2k series user, with signal gen, to run some frequency response testes

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/frequency-response-of-your-dso/

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Online ve7xen

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #553 on: January 30, 2013, 06:16:42 pm »
ui marmad .. the thread is running high :)

I'm looking for Rigol DS2k series user, with signal gen, to run some frequency response testes

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/frequency-response-of-your-dso/
I have the equipment and can run these tests, but I think my BNC cables are garbage (they were cheap) as it's far too sensitive to movement. I'll try to get a stable setup to make some measurements tonight, if nobody else gets there first.

It'd be really hand to have a GPIB card for the siggen...
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Offline EV

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #554 on: January 30, 2013, 06:54:49 pm »
I'll try to get a stable setup to make some measurements tonight, if nobody else gets there first.

My generator goes only up to 160 MHz, so it is not what they want.
 

Online ve7xen

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #555 on: February 01, 2013, 07:57:27 am »
ui marmad .. the thread is running high :)

I'm looking for Rigol DS2k series user, with signal gen, to run some frequency response testes

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/frequency-response-of-your-dso/

I've posted my results over in that thread. My scope seems to be -3dB at about 100MHz. Interestingly CH2 looks better up to 150MHz or so, and then performs quite a bit worse than CH1 after that.
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Offline tigerwillow1

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #556 on: February 02, 2013, 05:41:43 am »
Apologies if I'm asking a simple and/or stupid question.  I can't find an answer in the manual and can't figure out how to search this thread for it.

I've somehow got my 2072 into a mode I can't get it out of.  The vertical sensitivity display for channel 1 has a tilde instead of an equal sign.   For example, it says "~ 1.00v" instead of "= 1.00v".  What did I do, and how do I get the equal sign back?  Channel 2 is ok, displays the equal sign.
 

Offline EV

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #557 on: February 02, 2013, 06:44:04 am »
I've somehow got my 2072 into a mode I can't get it out of.  The vertical sensitivity display for channel 1 has a tilde instead of an equal sign.   For example, it says "~ 1.00v" instead of "= 1.00v".  What did I do, and how do I get the equal sign back?  Channel 2 is ok, displays the equal sign.

It is on user manual page 2-3. You have AC coupling. Change it to DC coupling.
 

Offline tigerwillow1

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #558 on: February 02, 2013, 08:27:49 pm »
It is on user manual page 2-3. You have AC coupling. Change it to DC coupling.
Thanks.  Now that I know what this symbol is, it's not only obvious, it's a nice feature.  And I realize now what I thought was an equal sign isn't, but a symbol for DC.  The book shows only the DC symbol explaining why I never found a "~".  I'm coming from an analog scope.  Thinking the DC symbol was an equal sign, I interpreted the tilde as meaning "approximately" instead of "ac coupling".  This seemed pretty analogous to "uncal" on the analog scope, and my thinking continued downhill from there.  Some parts of the transition from analog to DSO are obvious, and others are pretty different.
 

Offline scummos

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #559 on: February 03, 2013, 11:50:04 am »
I'm coming from an analog scope.  Thinking the DC symbol was an equal sign, I interpreted the tilde as meaning "approximately" instead of "ac coupling".  This seemed pretty analogous to "uncal" on the analog scope, and my thinking continued downhill from there.
I don't really think there's an UNCAL for these scopes... since they can tell you the exact width of a div on the display, even if you're using a fractional one (you can do that by pressing the scale knob, then rotating). Sure, it might be more difficult to read, but it's still accurate. :)
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Offline Wim13

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #560 on: February 03, 2013, 01:17:25 pm »
I posted this one also in the DSO graph, measured the Rigol 2072, with -10 dBm ( 70 mV)
direct on the BNC connector, measured every 10 Mhz.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 01:59:05 pm by Wim13 »
 

Offline Teneyes

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #561 on: February 04, 2013, 12:23:17 am »
This seemed pretty analogous to "uncal" on the analog scope, .
I don't really think there's an UNCAL for these scopes... Sure, it might be more difficult to read, but it's still accurate. :)

@Scummos & Tigerwillow
  Similar to UnCal on old Scopes in the time scale/div is the Fine Time scale adjustment
  Use the Scale "MENU" (between Scale and Postion)
  set "ScaleAdjust" to 'Fine'   for  1% adjustments 
   IE  10.0us/div to 10.1us/div

   For Vertical (V/div) Press the vertical Scale knob for  Voltage vernier in 2% steps
« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 04:06:13 am by Teneyes »
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Offline scummos

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #562 on: February 04, 2013, 12:36:54 am »
Yeah, as I said you can get the same behaviour by pressing the knob. :)
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Offline funk1980

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #563 on: February 06, 2013, 12:01:36 pm »
I'm trying to figure out the following. Coming from an analog scope, I'm still getting my head around al these extra features! But can't figure out how to do (if even possible) what I want the scope to do: I'm trying to determine the absolute maximum pp voltage my bass guitar puts out. Ideally, I want the scope to hold on to the max measured value and capture the next highest if one occurs, either a value, or the waveform itself. Is this possible with the DS2072?? Or do I have to record a bit and track back the recorded waveform?
 

Offline zibadun

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #564 on: February 06, 2013, 01:52:50 pm »
I'm trying to figure out the following. Coming from an analog scope, I'm still getting my head around al these extra features! But can't figure out how to do (if even possible) what I want the scope to do: I'm trying to determine the absolute maximum pp voltage my bass guitar puts out. Ideally, I want the scope to hold on to the max measured value and capture the next highest if one occurs, either a value, or the waveform itself. Is this possible with the DS2072?? Or do I have to record a bit and track back the recorded waveform?

funk.  Try setting a really slow scan rate, for example 500ms or 1s and play your loudest notes. see if you get something useful this way. 
 

Offline Salas

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #565 on: February 06, 2013, 04:11:15 pm »
Or use a DMM with min-max.
 

Offline funk1980

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #566 on: February 06, 2013, 09:10:44 pm »
Ideally, I want the scope to hold on to the max measured value and capture the next highest if one occurs, either a value, or the waveform itself.

@FunK (brother?)
Select which channel , CH1 or Ch2
select left top menu  for "Vertical" menu
on left buttons
Select  Vpp

Select "Measure"
on right
Select "Statistics"  ON   

see table for Max Vpp

You may also Like:

select time base 100ms  or faster
select  "Display" menu (group of 6 menus)
select "Persis.Time" 
select "20s"
Thanks guys for the input  :-+
But Teneyes hit the home run! Works exactly how I want it.  I wasn't aware of the 'statistics' and only used the 'display all' setting and chose some values for the bottom part of the screen. The statistics actually hold on to the max value permenantly, until pressing clear or chosing another V/divs for example. The other two options I mentioned don't.

And very insightfull I might add. My active jazz bass puts out 6.32 Vpp played HARD. My Musicman Stingray a whoping 7.68 Vpp. Knowing a 12AX7 ideally can only handle 3 Vpp on it's grid before soft-clipping, there's work to be done at the input stage
 

Offline zibadun

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REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #567 on: February 06, 2013, 11:18:56 pm »
I love this - rigol helps make better music :)

Just curious, did you measure while the guitars were plugged in to the input stage,powered on?  I guess the levels may change a bit under the load...
 

Offline martinv

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #568 on: February 07, 2013, 04:50:26 am »
I guess the levels may change a bit under the load...
I second this.  I did a similar test with my pedal steel guitar and believe it made a sigificant difference with vs without load.  However, the bass under test (BUT?) volume control on is likely providing loading.   

I was surprised to see ~12V P-P (with a normal load) especially considering a lot of players run these into 9V powered pedals.  On the other hand it took some extreme picking to get that 12V.
 

Offline funk1980

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #569 on: February 07, 2013, 03:27:57 pm »
I guess the levels may change a bit under the load...
I second this.  I did a similar test with my pedal steel guitar and believe it made a sigificant difference with vs without load.  However, the bass under test (BUT?) volume control on is likely providing loading.   

I was surprised to see ~12V P-P (with a normal load) especially considering a lot of players run these into 9V powered pedals.  On the other hand it took some extreme picking to get that 12V.
Hahahaha Bass-Under-Test! That's a keeper.
The basses were unloaded, but since they use active electronics (buffered outputs) normally going into a 1 Meg impedance input, the voltagedrop would be minimal.

Concerning the large output voltages vs the 9V effect pedals, that's a common problem. Lots of pedals clip when driving them full force. Specially older hardware expecting passive instrument input.You either have to turn down your instruments volume (which can be undesirable, because it can alter the tone), or use an FX loop with adjustable output. Even my active Jazz bass (with after market Audere preamp) clips hard when turning both the volume and EQ to the max.
 

Offline Salas

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #570 on: February 08, 2013, 09:49:56 pm »
Yet another 2000 user here. Upgraded from the 1000 series. First impressions are its a fast computing well thought out DSO. Just pressing "auto" is enough to demonstrate its speed. Operating satisfaction is up a league from the previous. Especially the dedicated metrics menu is a boon. Soft buttons green backlight could be stronger its only noticed when there is strong light direct on. The screen is fine as long as it is viewed at soft down looking angle. Above eye level positioning of the scope darkens it out. Better avoid such positioning if you can rearrange the bench gear. The fan is rather too noticeable in silent surroundings although heavier in tone and lower in SPL than in the 1000. Its just a close pass under ''nuisance'' level for me. The probes are short and agile enough to handle. Their speed looks adequate. There is a serious issue though. The hook sheath slips off too easily. Practically unusable when need to hang off a test point with their bottom down or in wide angle. Not different than those in the small series in that respect. I got the remedy though. 8) That is borrowing the hook cone bit from those P6100 el cheapo probes abundant on Ebay. They stick like glue to the Rigols. Don't go buy only spare cones some have on offer. Those slip away easily as well. The noise is hunky dory with the averaging or Hi Res mode on. About 100uV PK-PK @ 500uV vertical. With 20MHZ BWL the averaging method only beats the Hi Res method to 40uV PK-PK. More to explore in functions and details in the next few days, but you guys have covered all that Jazz already. I thought I could just commit the couple of hours long "first impressions" only as in the title of the thread.
Last but not least, I want to thank "Drieg" AKA Peter of www.silcon.cz for his phenomenal pre-sales and after sales support. Highly recommended seller for anybody buying in EU. Cheers Peter!
 

Offline EV

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #571 on: February 08, 2013, 10:09:47 pm »
There is a serious issue though. The hook sheath slips off too easily.

You are not first with this. It is not in its place correctly. Push the hook tip harder to its place until it clicks!
 

Offline Salas

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #572 on: February 08, 2013, 10:27:18 pm »
 :-+ You are right! I just tried that and it locks much better! Why on earth they don't mention "push further to lock" on the the probe's manual...
 

Offline Salas

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #573 on: February 10, 2013, 04:00:27 am »
The scope sees its 3VPP 1kHz cal signal as unipolar, displays it above mid-line and measures it x0.71 for RMS when the channel is DC coupled. Unipolar square waves for RMS are supposed to be like sine waves indeed. Measures it x0.5 or VP when AC coupled as expected. My external generator outputs bipolar square anyway so the scope always centers it mid-line for AC/DC and measures it at VP for RMS when on 50% duty cycle. The FLUKE 87 measures the external gen near zero on its DCV setting and at VP on its ACV setting. But when measuring the probes cal signal it measures them at VP both on its ACV and DCV setting. F87 is a true RMS reading DMM. Are both the DS2000 and the F87 doing everything right?   :-DMM  :-// :-BROKE
 

Offline Teneyes

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #574 on: February 10, 2013, 11:02:31 am »
The scope sees its 3VPP 1kHz cal signal as unipolar, displays it above mid-line and measures it x0.71 for RMS when the channel is DC coupled. ...... F87 is a true RMS reading DMM. Are both the DS2000 and the F87 doing everything right?
@Salas:
 Check out user's guide  for Vrms calculation ; page 6-18 or   page 138 in pdf at:
http://www.rigol.com/download/Oversea/DS/User_guide/DS2000_UserGuide_EN.pdf
Begins with "   8. Vrms: the root mean square value on the whole waveform or the gating area."

Be aware that Gating Area, means the trace on the display, so you can see when I moved the trigger point to the left  and adjust the time base to show mostly just the +300mv of the Cal-signal the DS2000 will Calculate the RMS to be 283mv ,
See display, I hope that helps understand this scope
Note: I used the Fine Adjust of the timebase to get 39.00us/div

A nice description:
http://masteringelectronicsdesign.com/how-to-derive-the-rms-value-of-pulse-and-square-waveforms/
« Last Edit: February 10, 2013, 11:24:07 am by Teneyes »
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