First scope, lost in the reviews

[staze]

Not so.
You can get a 50,000 count Uni-T or other brand for under $100.
The closest Fluke with 4 1/2 digit is the Fluke 80 series, and it's only 20,000 count, for what, 3-4 times the price?

Good point, good point.

Off hand:
- 14 times the memory standard
- Segmented memory (effectively amplifying that 14Mbit by several orders)
- Waveform replay
- advanced PC control (see the awesome firmware a forum member has written)
- Ethernet standard
- Low noise 500uV front end
- intensity graded display (analog-like display)
- order of magnitude better waveform update speed
- a whole host of advanced measurement capability

Hmm... so, then, stepping back, if you'd never owned a scope before, would any of those be huge? The intensity graded display sounds promising. And I'm guessing the Ethernet connectivity is for issuing commands... not actually sending waveforms to a computer, yes?

I mean, look at it this way: You get a hankering to learn a musical instrument. You could go out and spend a few hundred for something that will let you play, and figure out if you want to keep at it, or just tinker. Or you spend a couple grand, and buy something that would get you into the local amateur band/orchestra, but it could be you lack the talent, or the couple hundred dollar instrument would have served well enough for that as well. Or hell, could be you decide you want to switch instruments....

[staze]

Only issue is, seems a lot easier to spend 30% more and get the 2072 if it's only 30%. 100% more, however.

...or 200% more in my case, making it completely irrelevant to me as a first scope. I really just want a revamp of the 1052, and the recent Siglent's do look like updated 1052's (sample memory, screen, dedicated buttons, PC interfacing etc.) with a menu system a la Rigol's that looks superior to Owon's (not a fan of all the cheap micro membrane buttons and lack of LED status in these).

Which Siglent's are those? I noticed in reviews the buttons on the Owon's and Hanteks looked terrible (hard plastic, membrane cheap buttons, etc). The Rigol's looked like nice soft buttons, with LED status, etc.

[casper.bang]

Which Siglent's are those? I noticed in reviews the buttons on the Owon's and Hanteks looked terrible (hard plastic, membrane cheap buttons, etc). The Rigol's looked like nice soft buttons, with LED status, etc.

Well they have several series, currently deprecating the small 5" versions (like 1052E) over 7" widescreens. I am interested in the line with extended memory (good for capturing digital communication) so CML is the one for me.

There's a decent demo video online, which shows off the Siglents 1052E heritage, except there's now a dedicated single shot button, no need to share the vertical control between the 2 channels and of course more horizontal pixels (more visible waveform history). It has soft rubber buttons, 12 of which are with status LED's. I also like how the vertical resolution dial takes precedence (larger and located higher up) of the offset dial, which confused me on the Rigol 1052E.



I just wish I didn't have to order from China, but I have not located a European dealer yet.

[staze]

Is the CNL the same as the CML?

Note there are CNL's on eBay.

I don't know if there are any local dealers since it's the OEM building and reselling them under their own brand... their clients might get a bit upset.

As much as I/we bitch about all of this, it's still mind blowing that you can buy ANY scope for $300-400. Wonder what Tek thinks about all this. Having worked for 3com when Netgear and Dlink really made their push with $20 NICs, they were pretty honest saying "cards are cards, it's all about support". Unfortunately, they were both right and wrong.

[casper.bang]

Is the CNL the same as the CML?

Note there are CNL's on eBay.

Sadly no. There is a nice comparison chart here:
http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewitem?itemId=160931280364&cmd=VIDESC

Seems TME in Europe has some Siglents both under LeCroy and Ax-something name:
http://www.tme.eu/en/katalog/digital-oscilloscopes_112665/

[staze]

yeah... not sure myself about buying from china/ebay.

3 year warranty doesn't mean squat if you can't get ahold of the vendor....

At this point, guess I'm going to just save until I'm ready to pull the trigger... but at this point, I think the votes (wife, and coworkers) is for the 1052e.

Wish I could get work to buy it for me... then I'd just get the 2072. =)

[staze]

Hey sweet. Shoutout on an eevblog!

Sad that it makes me want the 2072....

[staze]

So after watching the video Dave did, and the voting, it does become a bit of a no-brainer. I'm going to try to save up (maybe get some overtime, or consulting work), and buy the 2072.

Damn expensive hobbies.... =P

At least now I have a power supply on the way (though, that did eat $85 out of my saving for the scope). =P

[saturation]

If you have a retailer near you or a good online vendor, most will let you try it for 1-2 weeks, no questions asked return.  Then you can have the 1000 series scope now or sooner, than wait a longer time to acquire a more costly scope.  You get more for your dollar in the 2000 series if you have more money to spend and you need those functions.  But until then, you are taking a gamble on whether your skill set for the near future will appreciate those extra capabilities.  Only you can answer that question.  If that time comes, the 1000 series is popular enough to easily sell; just note those that have been sold on eevblog by members and how long its takes to be sold.  On eBay, I see them sold used on bids for about $300, for new ones selling for $320!  Its certainly held its value.

http://www.ebay.com/csc/i.html?LH_ItemCondition=4&clk_rvr_id=467640924211&_nkw=1052e&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc

[staze]

gah!

I know, I know. Unfortunately, pretty sure there's no dealer nearby. But yeah, I know there's the question of if I'll really grow to use the 2000 series, etc. I think what I'm really going to do at this point is save (if I can... I keep finding ways to deplete my savings) until I have enough for the 2000 series, and at that point, I either buy it, or buy the 1000 series and some other stuff. Or, I'll have moved on in hobbies (I hope not). Who knows, maybe by the time I have that money saved (July/Aug), the price will tick down a bit. Looks like Instek and a couple other manufacturers have brought out scopes that may force Rigol down a little bit (maybe).

The 2000 series is just too damn sexy to NOT want. The intensity display was probably one of the biggest things that sold me... that and the wfps, etc.

Here's hoping, and thanks!

[Burak]

I 'm twisted  , 5th day reading this forum and I  can't answer for question:
 Which one DSO I should buy?

Rigol DS1052E=430$=Siglent SDS1072CML (36 months warranty, price including shipping)

-I don't know when Rigol stop correct&develop FW?
-in hacked FW always is a risk that developers find way to block possibility for upgrade overclock to 100Mhz DS1052E
-Siglent will stop manufacturing DSO with 5.7" LCD 30 April 2013,
-Siglent improved construction - SDS1000*** , but nobody tell about secret know-how?
-How long Siglent will be correct&develop FW?,
-How often update will be available?
-What is the difference in the quality of FW from Rigol and Siglent?

Is a trouble for me  to compare waveform DS1102E with SDS1072CML, because nobody present snapshots from SDS1072CML. I can expect that Siglent will be better from DS1052E (50Mhz) but it's hard to imagine how much worse than the DS1102E (100Mhz).

[rf-loop]

I hope before end of next week I can do some lab tests for SDS1102CML and SDS1072CML.
I believe they have  latest HW and FW.

I hope Siglent do not update FW and HW very often. SDS1000 series is not anymore newborn baby.

Last time I have only very quick test SDS1072CNL with newest FW version 5.01.02.13.
Not bad.

-----------------------------------------------------
ADD: Here you can find more new freq response test for SDS1072(CML)
BW is clearly improved in new HW. (also Equal Time mode is now lot of better in new FW (+HW))
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-scopes/
-----------------------------------------------------


Next images are from OLD tests using older SDS1072CNL
FW: 3.01.01.31R17
HW: 10-61-3.3

Frequency response -3dB point is (dependent about test setting) between 90 - 100MHz.
ADD: -3dB point is around 115-120MHz in new HW 11-61-3.3


Risetime using not so perfect <1ns risetime pulse.


same as before but persistence on (there can see also cursors are auto tracking)


Freguency response using linear sweep from 1MHz to 150MHz
Center is 60MHz and 15MHz/div. In this image -3dB is around  90MHz with this test setting.
(signal from generator using 50ohm coaxial and Tektronix 50ohm terminator in scope input. (this is not ok becouse total load is not 50ohm impedance mainly due to oscilloscope parallel capasitance. But accuracy "enough for this purpose".)


random image

and if some reason do not like black backround....







What is nice, it have dual timebase. In ALT mode both channel have of course individual separate trig, but also they may have different timebase.

If compare to Rigol DS1000E serie and if I remember all enough Siglent have more features.

(time ago (some year) I have also sold some Rigol DS1000E series and also tested them. With this experience, in this price class Rigol DS1000E was good and when it come to markets there was not so many others. It was first chinese DSO what quality I can accept also for sell to my friends so that I can also meet them later without need later run away.)

Everyone have its own needs and liking and financial situation. This is my personal opinion and NOT related to situation that I sell also Siglents.  I'm hobbyist and professional with measurements and electronics and selling is only very little sidecar and not so much business as "get all money you can"... no no and no.
 
If I get today nearly same price SDS1072CML or SDS1102CML  as Rigol DS1052E or DS1102E.
Selection is very very clear and I select Siglent without hesitation. (yes and I have both available as easily)

One I must say, Rigol probes building quality is littlebit better than what Siglent use (these what I have seen. Yes they work and no problem. I littlebit worry this rotary cable connection in scope end - why it is this rotary construction. Fixed is more reliable imho)


Of course there can do many kind of playing, one example with edge ?? trig:

(In this image used dot mode instead of line)

(there is 8ns "jump - no jump" jitter in signal timing, and also then added level jitter. Trigger is  some rising edge (left) before display area and trigger mode is of course edge ?? ))

Some more can find here http://siglent.freeforums.org/index.php
but sorry there is finnish language also. (but least some test images may show something more. Later I will continue with some more tests.

[EEVblog]

Hmm... so, then, stepping back, if you'd never owned a scope before, would any of those be huge?

Even a free 20MHz analog scope is a staggering tool when you have never owned a scope before!

I mean, look at it this way: You get a hankering to learn a musical instrument. You could go out and spend a few hundred for something that will let you play, and figure out if you want to keep at it, or just tinker. Or you spend a couple grand, and buy something that would get you into the local amateur band/orchestra, but it could be you lack the talent, or the couple hundred dollar instrument would have served well enough for that as well. Or hell, could be you decide you want to switch instruments....

Sure, if you don't want to spend much, pay <$400 and be happy. It'll be a fine tool.

[staze]

Sure, if you don't want to spend much, pay <$400 and be happy. It'll be a fine tool.

BAH. After you put the work into that blog, and showed the 1000 series compared to the 2000 series, there really is no contest. I'll just be saving up for the 2000 series at this point, and when I get there (money wise), I can decide if I want the 2000, or the 1000 with some other stuff, or hell, who knows! =)

I just have to quit spending my savings... =)

[casper.bang]

BAH. After you put the work into that blog, and showed the 1000 series compared to the 2000 series, there really is no contest. I'll just be saving up for the 2000 series at this point, and when I get there (money wise), I can decide if I want the 2000, or the 1000 with some other stuff, or hell, who knows! =)

I just have to quit spending my savings... =)

I thought we had established that of course there is no contest, the DS2000 series costs 2-3 times as much!  Dave is replying to rf-loops's comments regarding the Siglents vs. the Rigol DS1000's. Remember, the best tool is the one that's available to you and which will get you going; not the one that crams in most features per $.

[Burak]

rf-loop
thanks for your opinion, it reassure me that it's a good choice when I buy Siglent.

My scope I received in Thursday with startup times counter 1 
I succeeded make upgrade FW from 3.01.01.31R18 to 5.01.02.13 [HW 10-61-3.3]
the procedure was in two steps. First is a loading  *.ADS file - restart, second is loading *.cfg file - restart.

One I must say, Rigol probes building quality is littlebit better than what Siglent use (these what I have seen. Yes they work and no problem. I littlebit worry this rotary cable connection in scope end - why it is this rotary construction. Fixed is more reliable imho)

Yes it's true probes look shitty , during cable rotation noises are visible - fortunately I have better Hantek TP6100 
Delivered probes are signed PB470 70MHz (SDS1072CML)

Some more can find here http://siglent.freeforums.org/index.php
but sorry there is finnish language also.

Thanks again for http://siglent.freeforums.org/index.php . The infos from aghp are very helpful.

[ivan747]

Just for the record, I got a Rigol DS1052E after this thread. Something tells me it will be discontinued in the next 2 years, but I don't care. I have more important things to care about, like firmware maturity and widespread adoption and good support. Hey, it's a multi-hundred dollar purchase in the end. A scope can easily eat up to 50% of your lab budget in a single tool.

[Hydrawerk]

Something tells me it will be discontinued in the next 2 years, but I don't care.

LOL, it's not sure. Tektronix TDS2000, TDS1000 and TDS3000 remain in production even after ten years. And these scopes are really obsolete, but people buy them for some reason. Well, someone needs only 2,5k or 10k points memory per channel. 

[rf-loop]

Bandwidth in Siglent SDS1072(CML) in new HW is improved some amount.

test images here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-scopes/

[lapm]

Im looking this maybe little different perspective as someone that's coming back to building electronics after been away from it long time. And as someone that has newer had even semi decent lab. 

I would go for ds-1052e, and use that extra money to buy decent function generator. But that's just me. I don't need anything fancier then that. Will be a while before i come anywhere close to that 50 MHz bandwidth even.

[staze]

So, even though Dave did that amazing blog "post" comparing the two, I just can't justify the $830 I think for the 2072. =/ I'm just not sure how long I'll stay with the hobby, and I also figure I need a FG, etc.

So, I'm looking at the 1052e/1102e. That said, Curious question.

Do I buy a slightly used (6 months or so) 1052e for $280, or do I buy a brand new one for $330 (or so)?

[Electro Fan]

Looks like a number of people here are wrestling with similar questions and choices.

For what it's worth, I can't quite see why the DS1052E is even an option when you look at the pretty small extra price required by the DS1102E.

http://www.amazon.com/Rigol-DS1102E-Oscilloscope-Channels-Sampling/dp/B001VKCJ0M/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&m=A3DLN7K1UTIF0F&qid=1367893074&s=generic&sr=1-8

http://www.amazon.com/Rigol-DS1052E-50MHz-DSO/dp/B003MYND5A/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&m=A3DLN7K1UTIF0F&qid=1367893094&s=generic&sr=1-13

For $25 it would seem like a no-brainer to move from 50MHz to 100MHz but maybe I'm missing something?
Perhaps there are still lower prices out there on the DS1052E, but for $389 the DS1102E looks like a lot of value.

---

Update on my post:  looks like the DS1052E might be available for $319 or less... at some point the $ saved might be worthwhile for users that don't need the extra bandwidth:
http://www.tequipment.net/RigolDS1052E.html?Source=Google&gclid=CM-u48eJg7cCFYNx4AodL20ALg

[Galaxyrise]

For what it's worth, I can't quite see why the DS1052E is even an option when you look at the pretty small extra price required by the DS1102E.

Perhaps you're missing https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/changing-the-rigol-ds1052e-to-ds1102e-using-usb-the-dummy-guide/ ?

[staze]

For what it's worth, I can't quite see why the DS1052E is even an option when you look at the pretty small extra price required by the DS1102E.

Perhaps you're missing https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/changing-the-rigol-ds1052e-to-ds1102e-using-usb-the-dummy-guide/ ?

Correct. You can upgrade it.

Back to the question. $280 for a used 1052e, or $330 or so for a new one. Anyone know if Rigol allows warranty transfer?

[staze]

Seems Rigol has no stipulation about warranty transfer, so it shouldn't be an issue. 3 years is 3 years (where that 3 years starts is really based on whether proof of purchase is available).

Looks like, at this point, you can get a 1052e from tequipment for about $300. So really, savings are only $30 (used seller came down to $270). =/ Seems less than worth it. =/