Poll

Has the hackabiliy of the E4 made you buy one :  

Yes, I was already looking at the competition at a similar price, but the hack swung it to E4
274 (27.9%)
Yes, I'd not considered buying a TIC before, but 320x240 resolution at this price justifies it (as either tool or toy!)
444 (45.3%)
Yes, I was going to buy an E5/6/8 class of unit but will now get the E4
49 (5%)
No, but am looking out for a cheap i3 to hack
50 (5.1%)
Not yet, but probably will if now that a closed-box hack becomes is possible
164 (16.7%)

Total Members Voted: 803

Author Topic: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown  (Read 3769833 times)

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Offline 0xdeadbeef

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #525 on: November 03, 2013, 12:28:37 pm »
Damn it guys. This forum will be my ruin.
Any plausible reasons why someone (who is not into power electronics or thermal insulation) would need a thermal camera ;) ?
I mean, for sure I want one at least since I saw Predator back in the eighties, but admittedly merely as a tech toy.
Indeed I recently began investigating in thermopile arrays to build my own cheap substitute, but with a 320x240 9Hz camera in reach, this doesn't seem so interesting any more.
So now, thanks to you, I'm struggling with myself whether to resist my geek desire to waste 1200€ for something I will be fascinated with for the first week and then put it in the shelf.
Trying is the first step towards failure - Homer J. Simpson
 

Offline bookaboo

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #526 on: November 03, 2013, 12:30:24 pm »
I *think* I got the file updated but there appears to be no difference to the E4 after a bremoving battery and powering up.
Got the message


Received shell command message:
FLIR Command Line Interpreter
Version 0.4.3 running on WinCE 6.0

\>
Connected
Installation started...
Adding flashfs/system/appcore.d/config.d/e8.cfg
Camera update completed

Ok




Not sure where Im going wrong here.
 

Offline BravoV

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #527 on: November 03, 2013, 12:36:31 pm »
Damn it guys. This forum will be my ruin.

...

So now, thanks to you, I'm struggling with myself whether to resist my geek desire to waste 1200€ for something I will be fascinated with for the first week and then put it in the shelf.

Experiencing same feeling here, while fully aware that I DO NOT need it at all.  :palm:

This forum is evil.  >:D

Offline mikeselectricstuffTopic starter

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #528 on: November 03, 2013, 12:52:02 pm »
I *think* I got the file updated but there appears to be no difference to the E4 after a bremoving battery and powering up.
Got the message


Received shell command message:
FLIR Command Line Interpreter
Version 0.4.3 running on WinCE 6.0

\>
Connected
Installation started...
Adding flashfs/system/appcore.d/config.d/e8.cfg
Camera update completed

Ok




Not sure where Im going wrong here.
Probably an error in creating the e8.cfg file  - wrong serial, wrong crc, "CRC" in lower case, spurious linefeeds etc. Or you copied the template one without the crc from the wrong place.

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Offline bookaboo

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #529 on: November 03, 2013, 01:19:22 pm »
Yep, I got myself into a muddle with various e8.cfg files, one of which was missing the blank bottom line. Unfortunately this was the one Command Prompt kept going to!  :palm:

Up and running now so off to have some fun, I'll upload some before/after pics tomorrow.
Thanks Mike & Co. !!
 

Offline Zoltan von Negrow

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #530 on: November 03, 2013, 01:25:28 pm »
I have to confirm that hack works on 1.19.8, so no worries about that firmware, it´s not anti-hack firmware. :-+
 

Offline mrflibble

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #531 on: November 03, 2013, 02:21:18 pm »
I have to confirm that hack works on 1.19.8, so no worries about that firmware, it´s not anti-hack firmware. :-+

Awww.  :-\

So have you or any of the 1.18.8 owners noticed any diffs when comparing files on your E4 to the files in the 1.18.7 zip?
 

Offline AndyC_772

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #532 on: November 03, 2013, 02:23:48 pm »
Any plausible reasons why someone (who is not into power electronics or thermal insulation) would need a thermal camera ;) ?
I mean, for sure I want one at least since I saw Predator back in the eighties, but admittedly merely as a tech toy.

Good question - hopefully putting a decent TIC into the hands of some people outside the traditional markets will result in some good ideas, and maybe an expansion of the market for TICs generally.

The same thing happened with digital storage scopes, after all... they weren't always a piece of equipment which an enthusiast could buy as a standard item along with a multimeter and soldering iron, but now even the most basic bench seems to have a Rigol 1052E on it. I'm sure it's no coincidence that this particular model was also easy to upgrade with a simple hack.

Obviously if you really needed a TIC, you'd have an application in mind already, but here's a few idle thoughts for stuff you could do...

Domestic stuff:

- check round your home for draughts, poor insulation, electrical items taking significant power

- check just how well your fridge, freezer, boiler and/or A/C are working. Are your radiators working effectively? Is the system well balanced, or are some being starved of hot water?

- home security - maybe you could reliably identify when someone is on your property, and use it to turn on the floodlights or wake the dog? There could be some interesting work to do with the real-time video feed that's available.

Electronics stuff:

- new board? Point the TIC at it when you power it up for the first time. If any components highlight themselves unexpectedly in the thermal image, switch off straight away before something gets fried.

- short circuit between power and ground? Could be anywhere, but the TIC can highlight the location of the short in moments.

- anything involving power supplies, heat sinks, fans and so on, obviously.

Offline bookaboo

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #533 on: November 03, 2013, 02:39:10 pm »
I already unexpectedly found a small leak in my workshop roof with the pre-modded E4.
It's not even dripping water yet but its letting damp onto the purlin, easy fix next time im up instead of a nasty surprise.

I justified the purchase for EE/Repair work, there might even be a market locally for some sort of industrial Thermography. I'll have to look into the situation regarding qualifications and regulations though.
 

Offline madpuma13

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #534 on: November 03, 2013, 02:46:40 pm »
Around the house these can and are used to identify potential problems.

You can find water leaks in your walls or roof.

Poorly installed insulation or lack of insulation

Drafts in windows

Appliance checking

Identify termite infestations

Identify mold/rot problems

So many possibilities!
 

Online Fraser

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #535 on: November 03, 2013, 02:56:04 pm »
The thermal camera opens up a world to us that is otherwise invisible. That alone makes them very cool pieces of equipment  8)

There are many uses for such a device and owners will discover many of them by experimentation or some research on the internet will give you some ideas. In its simplest form it is an accurate IR thermometer that may be used at a distance from the target.

These cameras are even finding uses in art.

At the risk of offending the more sensitive readership, as ladies bits are shown, take a look here :





With regard to using the E4 (E8) for any serious Thermography applications, be aware that it is limited in terms of manual configuration. It has no manual centre temperature and span capability which is an essential part of industrial thermography.  Also, using a hacked E4 would invalidate any claimed calibration on the survey.

I suggest owners enjoy their upgraded E4's for what they are....a bargain priced medium resolution thermal camera for consumer applications.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 02:58:56 pm by Aurora »
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Offline olsenn

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #536 on: November 03, 2013, 03:12:10 pm »
What camera was used to make that video? Does the E4 have that capability (video recording)? I realize it would only be 320x240@9Hz if anything
 

Online Fraser

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #537 on: November 03, 2013, 03:39:39 pm »
I only know that it was a TESTO thermal camera. Resolution not known but refresh rate is decent so not a 9Hz model.

E series cameras capture video via a PC and would be challenged to produce a real time video such as shown.

My FLIR PM695 cannot do real time video either so I have to capture S-Video or composite video  from its video output port using a USB video capture unit or my Archos 505 media unit.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 03:44:21 pm by Aurora »
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Offline firewire

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #538 on: November 03, 2013, 03:50:24 pm »
Great videos, great thread, amazing hack!!!!
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #539 on: November 03, 2013, 04:54:32 pm »
Was looking at the prices at RS and the base model Testo is the price of a reasonable used car here.....
 

Offline ixfd64

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #540 on: November 03, 2013, 05:56:35 pm »
Damn it guys. This forum will be my ruin.
Any plausible reasons why someone (who is not into power electronics or thermal insulation) would need a thermal camera ;) ?
I mean, for sure I want one at least since I saw Predator back in the eighties, but admittedly merely as a tech toy.

I can think of several situations in which a non-inspector would find a thermal imaging camera useful:

  • Checking for dud fireworks
  • Educational purposes; I'd imagine a thermal camera would be a valuable asset in a K-12 science classroom
  • Use by PC enthusiasts for finding overheating components
  • General interest; for example, I've always thought it would be cool to take a thermal camera to a place like Yellowstone
  • Ghost hunting
  • DIY home projects
  • And so on...

Online PA0PBZ

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #541 on: November 03, 2013, 06:35:17 pm »
I can think of several situations in which a non-inspector would find a thermal imaging camera useful:

Creating weird avatars?
Keyboard error: Press F1 to continue.
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #542 on: November 03, 2013, 06:43:45 pm »
Damn it guys. This forum will be my ruin.
Any plausible reasons why someone (who is not into power electronics or thermal insulation) would need a thermal camera ;) ?
I mean, for sure I want one at least since I saw Predator back in the eighties, but admittedly merely as a tech toy.
Indeed I recently began investigating in thermopile arrays to build my own cheap substitute, but with a 320x240 9Hz camera in reach, this doesn't seem so interesting any more.
So now, thanks to you, I'm struggling with myself whether to resist my geek desire to waste 1200€ for something I will be fascinated with for the first week and then put it in the shelf.

Having bought a TIC about a year or so ago, I no longer think of it so much as a TIC or a tool for power electronics, I think of it more as a diagnostic tool like an O-scope.  An O-Scope lets you see changing signals over time that you would not otherwise see. A TIC lets you see temperature you would not otherwise see.

The TIC gets used a lot more than I thought it would.  It is one of the best diagnostic tools around.

Had a problem with one of the machines at work - got the TIC out and noticed an overheating relay.  Turned a multi-hour diagnostic chore into a 5 minute affair.

When reworking boards, I use the TIC before I even use the o-scope.  The TIC is a quick way to see obvious failures before delving into deeper diagnostics.

TIC is awesome for verifying designs.  Let's say you use a 1A linear regulator and your circuit averages 250mA but peaks at 500mA, and goes in a plastic enclosure.  Do you need a heat sink?  You could run calculations, you could use a thermocouple, but loading up your device in worst possible scenario and looking at it via the TIC tells you much more.

Intermittent failure on a circuit?  Use the TIC to find out what is going on, even after it already occured.  Easy to see things like a component on it's way to failure or a component temporarily running outside it's specified range.

I diagnosed a faulty wheel bearing on a car with the TIC.  It was really easy to see how much hotter it was than the other wheel bearings.  Caught it before it became a much more expensive repair.

Found a huge wasps nest in my brother in laws house that he didn't even know about.  The drywall was so thin they were almost in the home.  With a 1 year old kid in the house who would have easily pushed right through the soft spot in the wall, it was lucky we caught it in time.

There are also uses in other fields that are more specific.  I sold my i7 to a lady who uses the TIC for fitting horse saddles.  By analyzing the hot spots she can gauge fitment.

A veterinarian I know uses a TIC to check animals - easy to see things like ear and toot infections and other such stuff, when you have an animal that can't tell you what's wrong.

Then you have all the standard TIC uses... checking your home insulation, checking pipe insulation, checking doors/windows/garage, checking circuit breakers and wiring, using the TIC to find wall studs, etc. 

I say a TIC is getting to the point where it's almost a must-have tool for a serious electronics person.  For under $1,000 and 320x240 resolution and the ability to close-focus, it's a no-brainer.
It's not always the most popular person who gets the job done.
 

Offline edavid

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #543 on: November 03, 2013, 06:57:37 pm »
What's the best deal on the E4 in the US these days?

(UPDATE: I found Tequipment.NET to be very responsive, and they beat the best price I found elsewhere.  Very nice deal.)

P.S. If it hasn't been mentioned before, FLIR has this freebie offer going... the borescope might be useful: http://www.distributoraccess.com/promotions/forms/FLIR-Q4a-2013-Redemption-Form.pdf
« Last Edit: November 05, 2013, 12:04:25 am by edavid »
 

Offline 0xdeadbeef

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #544 on: November 03, 2013, 06:59:53 pm »
If it was under $1000 I would not argue. But the cheapest price over here is ~1150€ including VAT.
Anyway, I'm more or less hooked ;)
Trying is the first step towards failure - Homer J. Simpson
 

Offline mikeselectricstuffTopic starter

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #545 on: November 03, 2013, 07:07:17 pm »
When I was looking in the UK I didn't see anyone anywhere offering anything less than the "standard" price of £796 (+VAT) - I think Flir have fairly tight control over reseller prices, but it may be worth trying to haggle - sometimes dealers with pressure to not openly discount can be persuaded to throw in a case or free shipping etc.
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Offline coconut

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #546 on: November 03, 2013, 07:20:44 pm »
I bought my E4 last week from http://www.test-meter.co.uk/index.php/electricians-forums-discount, with the 5% discount it was just under £908.
 

Offline plesa

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #547 on: November 03, 2013, 07:23:07 pm »
If it was under $1000 I would not argue. But the cheapest price over here is ~1150€ including VAT.
Anyway, I'm more or less hooked ;)

I just try to buy one
http://www.tester.co.uk/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera
and decided to buy it in US. For camera and case it was 1035 USD, which is reasonable.

Mike, thanks for your work!!
 

Offline 0xdeadbeef

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #548 on: November 03, 2013, 07:30:16 pm »
I thought there were export restriction. E.g. mouser doesn't sell it. Then again, export restrictions from the US to Europe for a product that comes from Europe is kinda weird, but still they seem to apply.
Trying is the first step towards failure - Homer J. Simpson
 

Offline firewire

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #549 on: November 03, 2013, 07:39:25 pm »
What's the best deal on the E4 in the US these days?

P.S. If it hasn't been mentioned before, FLIR has this freebie offer going... the borescope might be useful: http://www.distributoraccess.com/promotions/forms/FLIR-Q4a-2013-Redemption-Form.pdf

USA places that have a "request a quote" after the $995 price generally will come off a $100 down to $895.  I'm sure $995 is a FLIR MAP policy (minimum advertised price).
 


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