FLIR E4 - E8 useful for PCBs

[trevwhite]

Does anyone have any experience of using one of these cameras for heat profiles on circuit boards? From my initial look at them the fixed focal length makes it difficult to get close enough to get any real detail from a PCB.

Does anyone have any images of circuit boards taken with one of these FLIR cameras?

Thanks

Trev

[EEVblog]

You need an add-on lens and/or adjust the lens manually using the right tool:
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:197580

[trevwhite]

Looks interesting, so someone must have some pics then. This could be a really useful tool if so. I am really tempted to buy one but I just want to see what kind of results I can get before throwing all that money at it.

[amyk]

Look at Mike's videos. He's used one on a few PCBs before.

[trevwhite]

Okay, thank you for that. Just looked again and at the end of the video he does use it on boards. It seems okay kinda. I was hoping I would be able to measure actual temperatures of different parts of a board.

Also he demonstrates that the vertical alignment is out so pictures of a board with temperatures would actually be a bit mis-aligned.

Be interesting to know what happens when Mike uses the lenses he ordered and maybe the resolution upgrade helps?

[georges80]

Alignment of the MSX is off, but the IR is obviously correct. So, yes, you can easily use it with components on a PCB (I have both the lens adjust tool and the ZnSe tool).

Adjusting the lens is the best option if you want accurate readings since you aren't adding an attenuator (the ZnSe lens) in front of the stock lens.

Adjusting the lens will easily allow you to measure down to 0603 size components which should be more than adequate. This is THE reason I purchased the E4 (mod to E8). Works great.

I've posted pics before of PCB measurements in the huge E4 teardown thread, but here's a few to check out. First pair is finding an internally shorted cap (IR image and one from a camera for reference). The cap is 1210 sized.

The 3rd pic is a different board. You can see the 0603 size components (3 in a vertical row), just to the right/below of the SP1 marker.

The key to taking good pictures with the closeup adjusted lens is to have a holder to be able to move/set the E4 in the correct position. Hand hold is not as easy due to the depth of field and the holder allows easier monitoring and taking of multiple pictures during runtime.

cheers,
george.

[trevwhite]

Thanks for the pics, they look great.

[cyr]

Here are a few examples taken with my E4 and a 50mm ZnSe lens. The components are SO8, SOT23 etc.

[trevwhite]

Pictures are really great. How accurate do you reckon the measurements are? It seems that these cameras need to be calibrated and the materials they are measuring make a difference.

[cyr]

I did a quick check on a 20x20mm plastic BGA part. A thermocouple measured 47.5 C while the E4++ showed approx 50 C with or without the lens. Close enough for me, and the thermocouple is likely reading slightly low anyway since it won't have perfect contact with the chip.

The thing you really need to look out for is anything shiny/metallic, you will be reading the reflected temperature of the room rather than the actual object. On PCBs this is a good thing because the solder pads and component legs stand out well making it easier to navigate. Can be an issue with heatsinks and such though...

[trevwhite]

Well there probably isn't any stock of these in the UK any more. Maybe that will stop me crippling my finances to buy one!

[G0HZU]

Here's a closeup image taken of a SOT23 transistor on a tiny substrate if that helps?
You can see the transistor is the hotspot and you can see the thermal gradients across the SOT23 package. i.e. it is hottest in the centre of the transistor.

[trevwhite]

That looks brilliant! Amazing resolution! What is your setup to take that image?

[Ivan7enych]

Hello,

I've bought a small ZnSe lens, 12mm diameter and 100mm focal distance.
I prefer 12mm instead of larger 20mm to place it as close as possible to the original lens, to make smaller vignetting and sharpness on corners.
100mm focal is quite enough for me, 0805 smd parts are easily visible.

Lens holder has been made on my home lathe.

[Marphy]

I've bought a small ZnSe lens, 12mm diameter and 100mm focal distance.

Very impressive! The lens holder looks fantastic. Can you name the source you got the lens from (eBay seller or the like)?

Best regards,
Marphy

[tjb1]

Alignment of the MSX is off, but the IR is obviously correct. So, yes, you can easily use it with components on a PCB (I have both the lens adjust tool and the ZnSe tool).

Adjusting the lens is the best option if you want accurate readings since you aren't adding an attenuator (the ZnSe lens) in front of the stock lens.

Adjusting the lens will easily allow you to measure down to 0603 size components which should be more than adequate. This is THE reason I purchased the E4 (mod to E8). Works great.

I've posted pics before of PCB measurements in the huge E4 teardown thread, but here's a few to check out. First pair is finding an internally shorted cap (IR image and one from a camera for reference). The cap is 1210 sized.

The 3rd pic is a different board. You can see the 0603 size components (3 in a vertical row), just to the right/below of the SP1 marker.

The key to taking good pictures with the closeup adjusted lens is to have a holder to be able to move/set the E4 in the correct position. Hand hold is not as easy due to the depth of field and the holder allows easier monitoring and taking of multiple pictures during runtime.

cheers,
george.

How are you getting spot measurements and averages?

[Ivan7enych]

I've bought a small ZnSe lens, 12mm diameter and 100mm focal distance.

Very impressive! The lens holder looks fantastic. Can you name the source you got the lens from (eBay seller or the like)?

Best regards,
Marphy

Thank you, there's nothing extraordinary, just usual lathe work. I can make drawing if somebody wants to make it.

I've got the lens here -
http://www.ebay.com/itm/120921418837?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

[tjb1]

I've bought a small ZnSe lens, 12mm diameter and 100mm focal distance.

Very impressive! The lens holder looks fantastic. Can you name the source you got the lens from (eBay seller or the like)?

Best regards,
Marphy

Thank you, there's nothing extraordinary, just usual lathe work. I can make drawing I somebody wants to make it.

I've got the lens here -
http://www.ebay.com/itm/120921418837?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

Are you interested in selling those casings? I'd like to buy one or maybe a few.

[georges80]

How are you getting spot measurements and averages?

Flir tools.

cheers,
george.

[Ivan7enych]

Are you interested in selling those casings? I'd like to buy one or maybe a few.

I can make may be 5-10 casings, and sent it to you or other people, interested in it. Though I have no experience of selling something aboard and using paypal to receive money.
Is 12$ reasonable price for the casing? (without shipping cost).

[Marphy]

Is 12$ reasonable price for the casing? (without shipping cost).

I would take three of them instantly!

[bookaboo]

Does anyone have any experience of using one of these cameras for heat profiles on circuit boards? From my initial look at them the fixed focal length makes it difficult to get close enough to get any real detail from a PCB.

Does anyone have any images of circuit boards taken with one of these FLIR cameras?

Thanks

Trev

So far I've used my E4 to repair three items that I otherwise probably would not have been able to. I've also used it on maybe a dozen other repair jobs where it's saved a load of fault finding time.
I use the focus tool which I had 3d printed, this gives enough clarity to see temperature differences on SO packages.

So yeah with a focus tool and/or lens the Ex is fantastic for PCB work.

[tjb1]

Are you interested in selling those casings? I'd like to buy one or maybe a few.

I can make may be 5-10 casings, and sent it to you or other people, interested in it. Though I have no experience of selling something aboard and using paypal to receive money.
Is 12$ reasonable price for the casing? (without shipping cost).

Yes I would be very interested in 3-4 depending on what the shipping would be.  This would be the casing and nut right?

[edavid]

I've bought a small ZnSe lens, 12mm diameter and 100mm focal distance.
I prefer 12mm instead of larger 20mm to place it as close as possible to the original lens, to make smaller vignetting and sharpness on corners.
100mm focal is quite enough for me, 0805 smd parts are easily visible.

Lens holder has been made on my home lathe.

How do you remove the holder?  It doesn't look like there is much to grab on to.

[Teledog]

Have a 12mm ZnSe lens (80mmFL) here,  it kinda "plonks" right into the E4 stepped /tapered lens casing.
Check the surface reflection to make sure the {very slight} convex faces out.
Seems to work well if one doesn't jar it, had to tap the cam slightly to have it fall out.
Worked quite well for a preliminary test.
Yes, use a soft cloth below the lens when popping it out,  and of course, wear cotton gloves while handling!