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Author Topic: Fluke 189 with leaking surface mount supercap (also Fluke 287, Fluke 289)  (Read 74514 times)

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Offline JohnDee

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I have a Fluke 189 multimeter.  It suddenly died (nothing shows on the LCD display).  I changed the 4 batteries (the old batteries were only slightly below normal).  The two fuses checked OK.  Inspection of the circuit board shows some leaking on a small (6.5mm diameter) surface mount battery.  The marking of this two-tab coin cell has the logo of Matsushita (now Panasonic) and the numbers 3709.  I could not identify this cell on the web in order to find a suitable replacement.  I am hoping somebody can help...
« Last Edit: November 29, 2013, 03:28:11 AM by JohnDee »
 

Offline retiredcaps

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Re: Fluke 189 with leaking surface mount coin cell
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2013, 10:52:54 AM »
Inspection of the circuit board shows some leaking on a small (6.5mm diameter) surface mount battery.  The marking of this two-tab coin cell has the logo of Matsushita (now Panasonic) and the numbers 3709.  I could not identify this cell on the web in order to find a suitable replacement.
I suggest you clean up the leakage with a q-tip/toothbrush with a generous amount of IPA.

I remember seeing an ebay auction for what you are talking about ...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/281103728372

Right now, I can't find any more information regarding the specifications.
 

Offline retiredcaps

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Re: Fluke 189 with leaking surface mount coin cell
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2013, 11:31:30 AM »
 

Offline JohnDee

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Re: Fluke 189 with leaking surface mount coin cell
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2013, 11:42:33 PM »
You are right !!!   It is indeed a Panasonic EN gold capacitor.  I see that it is available at Mouser ($2.84 unit price).  I will order it and hopefully it will fix the problem.  I also read the Panasonic Technical Guide you sent me and reading at sections 4.1 and 4.2 on expected lifetime it seems to me that selecting that capacitor was a poor design choice with a surface mounted component having to be changed after barely a few years of usage...
Thanks for the great help !
 

Offline BravoV

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Re: Fluke 189 with leaking surface mount coin cell
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2013, 12:38:12 AM »
Damn, is this leaking supercap at the board is a serious problem plaguing the fluke dmm 180 & 280 series ?  :-\

As a new owner of 287,  this makes me worry as I just knew it.

JohnDee, please post the photo of that leaked cap and the damages at the pcb if any.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2013, 12:40:59 AM by BravoV »
 

Online M. András

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Re: Fluke 189 with leaking surface mount coin cell
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2013, 06:23:51 AM »
Damn, is this leaking supercap at the board is a serious problem plaguing the fluke dmm 180 & 280 series ?  :-\

As a new owner of 287,  this makes me worry as I just knew it.

JohnDee, please post the photo of that leaked cap and the damages at the pcb if any.
there is some internal pictures of the 287 here in the forum its hard to find btw.
 

Offline uoficowboy

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Re: Fluke 189 with leaking surface mount coin cell
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2013, 07:06:47 AM »
Interesting - I had noticed that my 189 did not have the battery life that it used to have. Still lasting months... but it used to last years. So the consensus is that replacing this component will fix that?
 

Offline tsmith35

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Re: Fluke 189 with leaking surface mount coin cell
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2013, 07:21:55 AM »
I have a Fluke 189 multimeter.  It suddenly died (nothing shows on the LCD display).  I changed the 4 batteries (the old batteries were only slightly below normal).  The two fuses checked OK.  Inspection of the circuit board shows some leaking on a small (6.5mm diameter) surface mount battery.  The marking of this two-tab coin cell has the logo of Matsushita (now Panasonic) and the numbers 3709.  I could not identify this cell on the web in order to find a suitable replacement.  I am hoping somebody can help...
From what I've found, that's a supercapacitor rated at 3.3V and 0.2F. Looks like they're discontinued, but perhaps one of these may do the job: Digikey
 

Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Fluke 189 with leaking surface mount coin cell
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2013, 07:32:21 AM »
Just had a look in my 287 - some signs of corrosion on the cap
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 

Online M. András

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Re: Fluke 189 with leaking surface mount coin cell
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2013, 07:41:10 AM »
Just had a look in my 287 - some signs of corrosion on the cap
how old is your unit?
 

Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Fluke 189 with leaking surface mount coin cell
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2013, 07:47:19 AM »
About 6 years old I think
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
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Offline JohnDee

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Re: Fluke 189 with leaking surface mount coin cell
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2013, 09:38:26 AM »
To answer BravoD's question below, the supercap on my Fluke189 looks very much like the one in mikeselectricstuff's 287 picture below. 
The original Panasonic supercap (P/N EECEN0F204AK) is still available in the USA and Canada from Digikey, Allied and others but with a min buy qty of 2,000pcs.  May as well buy a new DMM...  However I did a datasheet comparison and ELNA P/N DSK-3R3H204T614-H2L (corresponding to Digikey 604-1147-1-ND at $2.81ea, no min qty) as suggested by tsmith35 below looks like a good candidate for replacement.  I will probably go with that one.
 

Offline ElektroQuark

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Re: Fluke 189 with leaking surface mount coin cell
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2013, 10:01:38 AM »
What does FLUKE say about this?
Warranty?
;)

Offline BravoV

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Re: Fluke 189 with leaking surface mount coin cell
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2013, 12:37:08 PM »
there is some internal pictures of the 287 here in the forum its hard to find btw.
A huge high res photo of 287's gut -> Fluke 287 DMM Teardown and photos , although its not very clear whether its using Panasonic cap, can't identify the (M) Matsushita logo like Mike's.


Just had a look in my 287 - some signs of corrosion on the cap
About 6 years old I think
Mike, looks like you need to de-solder that cap off, worry it will going to burst out the goo once the container structure collapsed eaten by rust.  |O


My two 287s are manufactured in Jan and April 2013, will open it up to see which brand, its very unlikely they're using Panasonic Goldcap like Mike's since Panasonic already discontinued that for a while.

Offline BravoV

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Fluke 287 with corroded ultra cap
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2013, 04:09:59 PM »
My 287 is manufactured in April 2013 (Box label) with serial no 23780XXX.

The ultra cap's date code 1204 is also showing corroded sign, not as bad as Mike's though. Definitely not Panasonic (Matsushita brand) with that (M) logo like Mike's.   ???

Does this thing leak ?  Anyone knows what brand is that ?

Dave, this issue should be a good material for a short video blog.

Close up shots attached below.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2013, 12:48:56 AM by BravoV »
 

Offline Tasman

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Re: Fluke 189 with leaking surface mount coin cell
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2013, 09:00:18 PM »
Just had a look inside my 187 - it does not have one of these capacitors. 
Seems like they are for the logging memory backup.  Glad I didn't cough up the extra for the 189. :)
 

Offline Svuppe

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Re: Fluke 189 with leaking surface mount coin cell
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2013, 09:16:58 PM »
Ahh, good news. I was going to open my 187 tonight, but thanks to you I don't have to.

-Mikael
 

Offline amyk

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Re: Fluke 189 with leaking surface mount coin cell
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2013, 10:11:11 PM »
The original Xbox had the same problem with its supercapacitor... you should definitely replace it as it can cause rather serious damage to the PCB if it bursts: http://dannygalaga.com/xbox.html

There's also a rather strange paragraph in the datasheet given earlier:
Quote
7. Brown extraction
Brown extraction may occur around the sealing part depending on use conditions. This extraction is electrically nonconductive.
Therefore, it does not infl uence in the electric characteristics.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2013, 10:17:42 PM by amyk »
 

Offline tsmith35

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Re: Fluke 189 with leaking surface mount coin cell
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2013, 10:16:13 PM »
However I did a datasheet comparison and ELNA P/N DSK-3R3H204T614-H2L (corresponding to Digikey 604-1147-1-ND at $2.81ea, no min qty) as suggested by tsmith35 below looks like a good candidate for replacement.  I will probably go with that one.

Actually, with Digikey's shipping, you might as well buy a dozen and sell the remaining caps off on eBay for $6.88 each. ;D
 

Offline BravoV

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Re: Fluke 189 with leaking surface mount coin cell
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2013, 11:42:26 PM »
There's also a rather strange paragraph in the datasheet given earlier:
Quote
7. Brown extraction
Brown extraction may occur around the sealing part depending on use conditions. This extraction is electrically nonconductive.
Therefore, it does not influence in the electric characteristics.

Interesting, I missed that part.

If the brown goo even grew into like Mike's is harmless, then its fine, but at JohnDee's its leaking and ruined the board and surrounding components as he claimed, wish he could share some close up photo here.

Offline Kjelt

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Re: Fluke 189 with leaking surface mount coin cell
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2013, 01:35:37 AM »
How about the calibration settings? Are those also going to be affected?
 

Online dr.diesel

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Re: Fluke 189 with leaking surface mount coin cell
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2013, 03:21:40 AM »
Fluke 289 cap, board rev 14, cap has been dead for years.

Offline somlioy

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Re: Fluke 189 with leaking surface mount coin cell
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2013, 04:00:07 AM »
My fluke 289
« Last Edit: March 23, 2014, 12:46:07 AM by somlioy »
 

Offline JohnDee

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Re: Fluke 189 with leaking surface mount coin cell
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2013, 04:30:50 AM »
Just to clarify things up, the supercap on my 189 is just as bad as the what has been shown in the previous pictures.  It has NOT leaked onto the board or on other components.
 

Online dr.diesel

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Re: Fluke 189 with leaking surface mount coin cell
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2013, 04:34:20 AM »
How about the calibration settings? Are those also going to be affected?

Nope, cal will be fine.


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