Fluke 189 with leaking surface mount supercap (also Fluke 287, Fluke 289)

[Helix70]

http://www.fluke.com/fluke/auen/accessories/wireless-accessories/fluke-ir3000-fc.htm?pid=78550

[serggio]

A recent purchase of a 289 view from the inside, looks like they have redesigned the board a little and the Cap has been replaced by a battery??

New one revision 017 is pretty interesting... If this is real battery, how long it will support memory without main batteries installed in meter? What will happening when backup battery will completely dead? They will change battery or entire PCB?
For super caps mentioned time for keeping data without main batteries installed on meter is about 4 hour.
Also for super capacitors shelf life time is about from 1000 h to several years.

[Electro Detective]

A recent purchase of a 289 view from the inside, looks like they have redesigned the board a little and the Cap has been replaced by a battery??

New one revision 017 is pretty interesting... If this is real battery, how long it will support memory without main batteries installed in meter? What will happening when backup battery will completely dead? They will change battery or entire PCB?
For super caps mentioned time for keeping data without main batteries installed on meter is about 4 hour.
Also for super capacitors shelf life time is about from 1000 h to several years.

This is Fluke's job to solve and FIX FOR FREE  -UNCONDITIONALLY-  FOR ANY OWNER,

look at the LUDICROUS prices they charge for decent meters  with SILLY problems  that DON'T always need a board replacement and a 'yeah it works' -calibration-     

[serggio]

So other manufactures do not have problem with super caps?
Yes, Fluke offering "lifetime" warranty and probably will solve problem. Past PCB revisions for 280 series used Panasonic EN series supercaps with just 500h shelf life  this series has been discounted by Panasonic.
Probably best way is using battery that will able changed by customer. I do not see any reason for using battery soldered directly to PCB.

[Electro Detective]

So other manufactures do not have problem with super caps?
Yes, Fluke offering "lifetime" warranty and probably will solve problem. Past PCB revisions for 280 series used Panasonic EN series supercaps with just 500h shelf life  this series has been discounted by Panasonic.
Probably best way is using battery that will abble changed by customer. I do not see any reason for using battery soldered directly to PCB.

BRAVO!     this is EXACTLY what I believe too. 

It is SHEER DUMBASS to replace one SOLDERED leaking component with another SOLDERED soon to leak battery component inside an overpriced CAT 111/1V meter !!! 
that may do WORSE DAMAGE in the future,

usually ONE DAY after the lifetime warranty has ENDED.   

Whoever pays the bills and wages at Fluke needs to word up the engineers YESTERDAY      to look inside their CAD computers  and check out the 'user replaceable' BIOS backup battery arrangement on the main board, 
that's been in use across TWO CENTURIES of consumer electronics!!!!!!       

[serggio]

Whoever pays the bills and wages at Fluke needs to word up the engineers YESTERDAY      to look inside their CAD computers  and check out the 'user replaceable' BIOS backup battery arrangement on the main board, 
that's been in use across TWO CENTURIES of consumer electronics!!!!!!       

It's not BIOS  RTC and probably temp offset, contrast and some user variables. http://media.fluke.com/documents/287-289_mveng0200.pdf
To be honestly, I do not see big problem with super capacitor except of shorting life of batteries. Even if you do not have warranty, you can easy to replace it oneself. I replaced super caps in my meter oneself just for save my time.
At any case they have new revision for PCB, let's see what will going on with

[Dwaine]

That's true.  The existing separate Bluetooth module really nice.

[Electro Detective]

Whoever pays the bills and wages at Fluke needs to word up the engineers YESTERDAY      to look inside their CAD computers  and check out the 'user replaceable' BIOS backup battery arrangement on the main board, 
that's been in use across TWO CENTURIES of consumer electronics!!!!!!       

It's not BIOS  RTC and probably temp offset, contrast and some user variables. http://media.fluke.com/documents/287-289_mveng0200.pdf
To be honestly, I do not see big problem with super capacitor except of shorting life of batteries. Even if you do not have warranty, you can easy to replace it oneself. I replaced super caps in my meter oneself just for save my time.
At any case they have new revision for PCB, let's see what will going on with

My point was to put a shake proof secured 'user replaceable battery' rather than a stupid leaky underated cRapacitor or dumbass soldered in battery that may leak too,
whose insides may be half fried by the soldering process to help along the inevitable.  -is not rocket science- 

[Tim5000]

Hello all,
I recently discovered my Fluke 189 had a leaking supercap. It also struggled a little turning on sometimes (may or may not be related).
I was aware of this thread so I contacted Fluke UK and they immediately said "It's under limited warranty - just send it in." I queried charges and they said I'd have to pay postage...great I thought they sound like they might replace the cap!

So I sent it in.
After a couple of weeks I've received the quote...

Please be advised that the meter is out of service hence no parts available.
We are quoting you for an replacement unit Fluke-289 at the repair cost which includes 50% discount off the pricelist.
Please be advised that the 50% discount is only applicable for trading in your old unit.

-Repair price : 268.00GBP (End customer price)   
-Calibration type : Traceable Calibration with Data  (OPTIONAL ON REPLACEMENT UNIT)
-Calibration price : 87.50GBP (End customer price)
-Investigation fee if quotation is rejected : 46.00GBP (End customer price)
-Shipping charge : 10.00GBP

All ex VAT of course.

To me that sounds like a pretty poor show from Fluke.
The offer of:
1) Buying a 289 from them (which I don't want) at a price that is more than I want to spend.
2) Calibrating my meter for £105 + postage but retaining the fault as "no parts available"
3) Paying £55 + postage to have it sent back to me.

I even mentioned that there's a very long thread about the design issue of the supercap and she didn't sound like it was a big shock.
I've absolutely no problem paying for these things when told upfront but the very nice lady on the phone didn't indicate these options when I asked what the options could be.
Has anyone else had any better luck from Fluke (UK) on this matter? I'm wishing I'd just replaced it myself now

Thanks
Tim

[serggio]

Are you eligible?

Lifetime is defined as seven years after Fluke discontinues manufacturing the product, but the warranty period shall be at least ten years from date of purchase. *(Lifetime Warranty applies to products manufactured after October 1996). The warranty does not cover manuals, fuses, disposable batteries, damage from neglect, misuse, contamination, alteration, accident or abnormal conditions of operation or handling, including failures caused by use outside of the product's specifications, or normal wear and tear of mechanical components. This warranty covers the original purchaser only and is not transferable. This warranty covers the LCD for 10 years only (state-of-the-art for LCDs). To establish original ownership proof of purchase is required (20, 70, 80, 170, 180 and 280 models). THE FOLLOWING PRODUCTS ARE INTENDED FOR SALE AND USE IN THE CHINESE AND HIGH GROWTH MARKETS ONLY AND AVAILABLE FOR WARRANTY PROTECTION ONLY IF SOLD, PURCHASED AND USED SOLELY FROM AN AUTHORIZED DISTRIBUTOR WITHIN THESE TERRITORIES: 101, 106, 107, 15B+, 17B+ and 18B+. THE WARRANTY FOR THESE PRODUCTS IS VOID IF THE PRODUCT IS SOLD, PURCHASED OR USED OUTSIDE OF THESE TERRITORIES, OR FROM UNAUTHORIZED DISTRIBUTORS AND NO WARRANTY COVERAGE, SERVICE, REPAIR OR REPLACEMENT WILL BE PROVIDED.

If not, ask them return your meter, replace capacitor oneself and be happy with your trusted meter.

[Tim5000]

Hi serggio, yes I believe I am eligible. As I mentioned I also queried it with the support lady.
What's frustrating is she could have quite easily told me "we can't repair them" but she didn't - she instead told me to send it in as it's covered under the limited warranty.
And I phoned twice to check before going ahead with it.

But now to get it back I have is to pay £55 + postage. Again if that had been mentioned upfront when I asked about fees I wouldn't have a complaint - but it absolutely wasn't mentioned.
My concern is why didn't they just tell me over the phone that they won't repair these meters? To my mind not being upfront when asked is just theft.

I would be interested if anyone else has dealt with Fluke UK specifically on the matter of this design issue.

[serggio]

Hi Tim5000,
If you still eligible for lifetime limited warranty (no 10 year left from date of purchase), I suppose they should did repair/replace your meter for free.
You still responsible for postage fees but not for repair cost.
Try contact their US support by mail for clarify this situation or head their service department in UK.
Girl on reception just for bla-bla-bla, she is not responsible for any decisions and not check any service bulletin during phone conversation.

[Electro Detective]

It must be obvious by now that Fluke are either dropping the ball too often,

or their service agents are not worded up properly about how Fluke support works,

or both!

Tim5000s situation described above sounds like a feeble attempt to relieve him or her of more money
without fixing a WELL KNOWN meter issue that is Fluke's part blunder, not the CUSTOMERS! 

To add more SALT to the wound they want Tim5000 to dump the 189 and fork out difference money and get a 289,
which bears NO RESEMBLANCE in functionality,    [[SIZE!!!]]     and convenience to a 189, even though many of the specs are similar

i.e. the 189 is a sportscar, the 289 a pimped up pickup ute. 

What the FLUKE is going on?

The competition is watching...note more orange Keysights, green Mastechs and red Brymens and Uni-Ts out there ! 

let's not forget those little rippa BLUE meters that are quickly gaining favour too   

[iamjanco]

Hi everyone, realize this thread is about the 289 supercap issue, hoping my query is somewhat relevant (I'd rather not invest in a current Fluke, if they're no longer the brand they used to be).

I've been considering purchasing a 289 FVF package for use in computer benching given its logging capabilities, but haven't been able to locate much in the way of whether Fluke has properly addressed the leaking supercap issue in the newer releases. I'm also a bit concerned about battery life during longer test intervals and am open to other alternatives that offer similar functionality. My needs are focused on short and longer interval voltage and thermal measurements and am not adverse to a smaller bench unit (space is limited), even a used one, though I'd prefer to keep pricing within the same range.

Info and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[Tim5000]

Hi, There was a post earlier in the thread I think that seemed to show the cap had been designed out of newer models and a battery has instead been designed in...

With regards to my issue with Fluke UK, I'm just waiting for my meter back.
I wasn't happy with the offer of a 289 - I think they should at least have replaced the cap if they didn't have any boards.
But apparently fluke don't have any parts...I'm not sure I believe that but it is what it is!
They did at least waiver the "investigation fee" so I went with that option.

Mostly I was dissapointed they didn't straight up say that they didn't/couldn't/wouldn't do anything - it would have saved both mine and their time and money and I'd have got it done by now!

So all in all I'm a little bit lighter of pocket for double shipping fees and will investigate fixing it myself when it arrives.

[technogeeky]

Hi, There was a post earlier in the thread I think that seemed to show the cap had been designed out of newer models and a battery has instead been designed in...

With regards to my issue with Fluke UK, I'm just waiting for my meter back.
I wasn't happy with the offer of a 289 - I think they should at least have replaced the cap if they didn't have any boards.
But apparently fluke don't have any parts...I'm not sure I believe that but it is what it is!
They did at least waiver the "investigation fee" so I went with that option.

Mostly I was dissapointed they didn't straight up say that they didn't/couldn't/wouldn't do anything - it would have saved both mine and their time and money and I'd have got it done by now!

So all in all I'm a little bit lighter of pocket for double shipping fees and will investigate fixing it myself when it arrives.

As fucking well they should have waived the fee! You already knew what the problem was! They know what the problem is. What is there to investigate?

This whole situation is absurd.

I don't currently own any Fluke multimeters, but I certainly aspired to one day own what I thought was such a high-end meter. But now, I can't see myself making such a purchase. It's probably been obvious for a long time to some that they aren't fundamentally better; and now it's obvious that they can indeed be worse.

It's a shame, really. They were a "great" American brand.

[Electro Detective]

You just need to find someone local (clued and honest) that can sort out the cRapacitor issue (without causing other issues) if you don't want to stuff about DIY.

Mine still suffer from the issue but are working 100%

Both the 189 and 289 are still killa meters to this day, and will continue to be so, 


unless Volts, Amps and Ohms become obsoleted in the near future.   

[Tim5000]

Thanks for the replies.
I've got a couple of meters - the 189 that's getting on and then I've also got a 2016 87V that I got for a great price on ebay virtually new. The 87V is good - I like it, but I still reach for the 189.
As I told Fluke - this was my personal meter but as a consultant engineer at my work when it comes to buying new equipment I can and will give an honest account of my experience with their support.
I even pointed them at this forum and the 87V quality forum to highlight that a lot of people are losing faith in them...but they just weren't open to moving at all.
Apparently the limited support ran out in April (2 months out) so they couldn't do anything but of course were very sorry!

So..when the meter comes back I'll order the parts and get it repaired myself, it doesn't look hard and I can't leave it knowing it's there - I just wanted to use Fluke's "legendary" service.
I'm not happy - but lessons learned and people will always vote with their feet.

Tim

[Electro Detective]

I use the 189 and 87V combo sometimes, it's a bench test no brainer   

Just watch out for the 87V AC default return when measuring DC current and switching from MA to uA,
I've got a taped on sticky note to remind me   

[ketimoi]

This thread is so useful no doubt about that. I own a fluke multimeter after reading this best multimeter review https://totalguide.org/best-multimeter/. Overall it is an good multimeter. But, this month I am seeing some problem with it. I am reading whole thread to figure out my problem.

[Tim5000]

This thread is so useful no doubt about that. I own a fluke multimeter and seeing some problem with it. I am reading whole thread to figure out my problem.

Hi ketimoi, good news is you'll get a lot of help here I'm sure.
And being in the US everything I've read is that Fluke is very much more interesting in doing "the right thing".

I've actually only just got around to revisiting my Fluke 189 meter with this issue so I've ordered what a few others have mentioned - a Panasonic EECS0HD334H.
Will update when I try and fit it -  it should be arriving this week.

EDIT: Confirmed that it fitted (with a little trimming of the tabs as it's physically bigger), and time is now held whilst changing batteries.

[Marco1971]

Hi, all...my 89 IV and 189 are in the same condition (pristine)...only in the 89 IV there are some signs of leaking. Both from year 2000.
Any issue if intead of 0.1 F i'll use one supercap with another value of capacitance (e.g 0.22 or 0.33 F) ? I just ordered four of this...



Many thanks.

Marco1971.

[coromonadalix]

For the moment in my 189

I have removed the supercap, it was rusted

I dont care about the clock, the meter works very well,  i did find an physical equivalent at digikey, 0.22f at 5 volts at 1.52$ can, ordered 5 of them  but they are out of stock, back order for 2 month ...

[bayati]

Hi
I'm sorry to bringing up an old thread and I know it has been talked a lot about this issue but please bear with me because I'm seriously confused.

I have 2 fluke 289. both have corroded cap and they can't hold the time when the battery is removed. I measured it's consumption right after installing the batteries. It draws 10 mA at first but after 1 min it stops at 20-30 uA (I think it charges the cap). Both working perfectly and I don't have any problems in measurements and I think battery consumptions are normal.

Note: I can't send them to Fluke

-- Now my questions:
1. Two people mentioned that after removing the cap their meters broke. How common is that? It can be related to other issues not removing cap?
2. Many substitute caps mentioned. 0.1F 3.3v, 0.22F 5.5v, 0.33F 5.5v? In super caps using higher capacity is dangerous or higher voltage?
3. The meter's firmware is 1.12. Is it better to change the super cap after updating to 1.16 or before that?
4. Should I wait for the cap to get discharged completely then removing them or it does not matter?
5. This question may look absurd but one person mentioned just using hot air to change the cap, not soldering iron?!!! but he did not mentioned why! (I think using soldering iron is better because using hot air, I thing it messes up the calibration)
6. The meters are calibrated in 2011. I don't care about the date but I'm worried that the battery corrosion expands or shorts. what do you thing? should change it?

Thank you in advance.

[coromonadalix]

On my 3x 189  they had an 0.1 farad supercap,  changed them to 0.33 farad at 5.5 volts,  bended the legs to fit pcb pads, i desoldered one side at the time,  none of them broke afterwards,  while wainting for the caps,   i did use them with no problems ??

I did use anti static protocol, not shorted anything in case the supercaps where charged, mine were corroded on top.