Fluke 87V (2017) lacking quality control?

[Electro Detective]

hey now... no personal attacks...

is that what it is? 

I thought it was obvious they are trying desperately to steer the issue away of where OPs current version dud 87V is manufactured, 

misleading labeling  -MADE IN -

questionable assembly line final testing

and of course the HIGH price for the privilege of purchasing such a disappointing  'reputation-driven' company's product   


Thanks for the heads up 

 

[eKretz]

I emailed Fluke directly with a link to this thread and had it confirmed that the meters are made here in the U.S. in Washington state. The troll responded by basically calling the Fluke employee a liar. Not much else to say.

[Electro Detective]

If OP Osirison decides to get a replacement -MADE IN MAYBE USA- Fluke 87V badged meter, (rather than take the money and source a real Fluke) it would be appreciated if the gentleman would   'take it apart'   CAREFULLY, and shoot off detailed photos.

I will cordially ask our forum host EE (and Fluke owner) Mr. Dave Jones if he has time to take a good look and share with us his observations 

If he says it's made here, there, anywhere, or any other relevant comment, that's good enough    for this wary suspicious Fluke customer.


Till then ladies and gentlemen, I will persist humbly following this post till resolved for OP, 


and will not be labelled or baited by a minority of bored members...perhaps with no work on the bench?   

[EEVblog]

This topic has been unlocked because there might be some important information from Fluke to share.

[floobydust]

I'd emailed and phoned Fluke Corp. to get an explanation of why OP's multimeter was different.

Fluke Technical Support identified a safety concern with the input jack plastic being changed, as this part is an insulator affecting 61010 certification.
They did not know why OP's meter is a different colour.

Next I got forwarded to two Product Specialists and their response was:
"The switch from red to grey was a vendor issue. The plastic piece would still need to comply to the safety regulations that we require with our meters.
This was the determination to change the plastic."

[Fungus]

WTF is a "vendor issue"?

[Electro Detective]

FYI, the   sweep it under the carpet  gang attitude from a handful of members here did OP Osirison  NO FAVOURS !

The 'thread closed' disappointed gentleman (to say the least) apparently has dumped the Flook/Fluke? back to it's source and rolled with another competing high end meter instead,
and won't be thinking about Flukes on his bench any time soon, especially after this beeping fiasco! 

Now we won't know what's going on till the next member rolls up in doubt and can supply pictures etc   

I want to know what the deal is with the current 87V is BEFORE I consider buying another,
or recommending it to others    and risk copping an earful (and a toolbox chucked my way) if it's a full priced half assed offshore knockup. 

Thanks Dave for re-opening the thread 

[Towger]

WTF is a "vendor issue"?

Total BS.  It is 100% Fluke's problem for allowing major parts not meeting specifications into their finished product.
Even if the only difference is the colour, the legal lengths Fluke goes to protect their famous yellow are well documented.

[floobydust]

I am disappointed with the response I got. Perhaps the troll can do better.

For a mature flagship product, it sounds like an arbitrary change or mistake.
I don't see a Product Change Notice, all the literature/videos show red plastic.
Fluke is ISO 9001 accredited and a decent quality system catches non-conformance.
The only time I've seen things go awry is when manufacturing or a "vendor" is moved off-shore.

[eKretz]

Dude, you are the troll E_D,  he was referring to you. You are extremely offensive no less.  No one in the entire thread tried to sweep anything under the carpet, nor do I understand how you can possibly arrive at that conclusion. Parts get substituted all the time in production environments - we aren't talking radiation blocking materials here.  It's a plastic insulator that got switched to a different color material, and you act like that means it must have been produced in China. If it meets spec who gives a crap what color it is.

Regarding the fact that the OP got a defective meter,  of course he should be refunded or have the meter replaced. Its not like this doesn't ever happen with any other products in the world...you are going off the deep end for no sensible reason.

[Fungus]

WTF is a "vendor issue"?

He's back playing the 'concerned' good guy now 

a) I think you'll find it was me who pointed out the grey plastic in the first place.

b) Nothing so far has suggested the meter is inferior in any way (or that "USA-built" meters are better).

[Wytnucls]

WTF is a "vendor issue"?

He's back playing the 'concerned' good guy now 

a) I think you'll find it was me who pointed out the grey plastic in the first place.

b) Nothing so far has suggested the meter is inferior in any way (or that "USA-built" meters are better).

a. The grey terminal was pointed out by the OP in post 24.
b. Fluke stated that it is not an authorized part for their meter and that it compromises the CAT rating.

[EEVblog]

Thanks Dave for re-opening the thread 

The reason it was closed is because of you. Do not post in this thread again, you are just being antagonistic.

[eKretz]

a) I think you'll find it was me who pointed out the grey plastic in the first place.

b) Nothing so far has suggested the meter is inferior in any way (or that "USA-built" meters are better).

a. The grey terminal was pointed out by the OP in post 24.
b. Fluke stated that it is not an authorized part for their meter and that it compromises the CAT rating.

As I understand it,  the first Fluke response was concern that the color was different because the part in question plays a major role in the safety (CAT) rating of the meter - at which point they referred the matter to the "product specialists" who looked into the matter and found that the plastic color was different because the vendor who supplied the parts apparently couldn't source the red material in a timely fashion. They further clarified that the material substitution could only have happened if the part still met spec for resistance etc. I don't believe that the part could possibly have made it into the meter otherwise.

Regarding the "Made in U.S.A." or elsewhere: the cost difference doesn't come from quality differences,  it comes from the fact that U.S. labor cost is almost always an order of magnitude or more higher than the newly developed nations where most cheap labor is done these days. Higher cost to manufacture = higher sales price.  It has nothing to do with people thinking that U.S. made meters should command a higher price because they're better made.

[Fungus]

As I understand it,  the first Fluke response was concern that the color was different because the part in question plays a major role in the safety (CAT) rating of the meter - at which point they referred the matter to the "product specialists" who looked into the matter and found that the plastic color was different because the vendor who supplied the parts apparently couldn't source the red material in a timely fashion.

If it was a postage stamp or a bank note it would be a collectors item, worth 10x more than the ordinary ones. 

It has nothing to do with people thinking that U.S. made meters should command a higher price because they're better made.

You must be new to this thread.

[borjam]

Regarding the "Made in U.S.A." or elsewhere: the cost difference doesn't come from quality differences,  it comes from the fact that U.S. labor cost is almost always an order of magnitude or more higher than the newly developed nations where most cheap labor is done these days. Higher cost to manufacture = higher sales price.  It has nothing to do with people thinking that U.S. made meters should command a higher price because they're better made.

And of course the additional fact that many unscrupulous manufactures not only outsource to China in order to get cheaper labor costs. They also skimp on quality on purpose to lower the costs intentionally. You can manufacture top quality stuff in China. It just takes more work and suddenly it's not so cheap!

[eyiz]

Can anybody explain why the plastic on the input jack is grey instead of red?

(is it a grey import?  )

I got the same "Grey Socket Edition", and I ordered my Fluke 87-V from Tequipment.net, which is an authorized Fluke distributor. I don't think they sell fake or counterfeit products.

My stats are:

FW = 3.03
Board = Rev 013
Grey Socket Edition
MFG: Apr2017
SN: 3856XXXX


I checked my Fluke 87-V against my Fluke 289, and most of the readings are spot on.
The new Fluke 87-V agrees with my old Fluke 289, but they both differ a bit from my
new Hioki DT4212, which I just got too. Since I'm planning to get the Hioki DT4282 also,
I'll do a comparison sometime in the future when I have all 4 meters to see the differences
between them. I needed a minimum of 4 meters for my hobby lab to do some experiments
in thermoelectric circuits, 2 to measure hot and cold junction temperatures, and 1 to measure
the current, and 1 to measure voltage drop across elements, all simultaneously, so I planned
these 4 meters would be make up my initial lab gear. 

Now my Fluke 87-V doesn't say "Made In USA" on the back of the unit itself, but I interpret that to mean it is not a completely manufactured US product. The Box clearly says Made in the US with Imported parts. The US doesn't have the manufacturing infrastructure to make these meters. They must import the internals to make them.

These Fluke meters are simply "assembled" in the USA, which is just the final procedure in the manufacturing process. However, this is an important step, that enables the manufacturer to establish the essential "quality control" over what goes into the final product, and testing that final product before shipping out. So, my guess is that all the internals are "Chinese parts", or maybe "Taiwan" parts, or somewhere over there in the region of the Four Tigers.

Long ago, wherever that final step of assembly was done, that's where the "Made in Country" appeared. But, over time, corporations got more conscious about what part of the work was done where. A lot of national pride goes into these things. So, today, corporations have lots of ways to distinguish where the contributions come from. We have "Designed in Nation1", "Made in Nation2", or "Designed in Nation1", "Assembled in Nation2", etc..I have some lamps from IKEA that says "Designed in Sweden" and "Made In China." The Chinese make everything. Because they are good at it, and labor there is cheap. They make all sorts of quality, from the best to the worst. So, someone has to "pick" the parts out of the soup of Chinese Made things, and put the best of those parts into the final assembled product. That's basically what the Fluke US does. They "pick" and "assemble", and because they are conscious of where those parts come from, they don't put "Made In USA" on the meter, because it isn't entirely true. Instead, they indicate who owns the "patents" for the design, of this multi-country manufactured unit.

With regard to the "Grey Socket", the first thing I thought when I got my Fluke 87-V was that this was the "last generation" of the revisions of this meter that Fluke would produce. Even before I opened the unit to check, I guessed that the circuit board would say Revision 13, because that's the numerologist code for "death" or "the end". The Grey socket is some Fluke design engineer's fancy way of flagging this as the last generation of the 87-V, like a man getting his "grey hairs" signaling his old age had come, this famous 87-V meter had run the course of it's natural life, had approached maturity, and it's time for a change. I would not be surprised at all, if this "guess" of mine turns out to be correct.

Of course, this would be a big secret. Fluke wouldn't tell anyone about this. They'd just do it, and then announce a couple years from now, the brand new redesigned better and improved FLUKE 87-VI.

So, let's wait and see.

[Fungus]

Can anybody explain why the plastic on the input jack is grey instead of red?

(is it a grey import?  )

I got the same "Grey Socket Edition", and I ordered my Fluke 87-V from Tequipment.net, which is an authorized Fluke distributor. I don't think they sell fake or counterfeit products.

Grey imports aren't fake/counterfeit products.

Of course, this would be a big secret. Fluke wouldn't tell anyone about this. They'd just do it, and then announce a couple years from now, the brand new redesigned better and improved FLUKE 87-VI.

So, let's wait and see.

Why wouldn't they just, ummmm, announce it? Why would they put a grey socket for a while first? Inside joke? 

nb. I'm not buying the "we didn't have any red plastic left that day" excuse. There's something going on, some internal screw-up they're not admitting to.

[eyiz]

Why wouldn't they just, ummmm, announce it? Why would they put a grey socket for a while first? Inside joke? 

nb. I'm not buying the "we didn't have any red plastic left that day" excuse. There's something going on, some internal screw-up they're not admitting to.

Look, they can't announce it, because people would stop buying the 87-V and wait for the 87-VI. Then the re-sellers and dealers would get mad, that Fluke "leaked" the info about the coming newest and greatest, causing them to hold onto their inventory. So, all manufacturing companies have to keep a tight lid on the upcoming products, to protect the sales of current models.

Then, they made this last 87-V a bit "special", by introducing the "Grey Socket", so that after the 87-VI is introduced, this last version of the 87-V will still sell well, because then people will then "realize" that it's the final totally "debugged" version of the last great meter Fluke ever made. It becomes easily recognizable by the "Grey Socket". It becomes an instant "collectors item". A rare model, that becomes almost impossible to find. When production stops, and the 87-VI with its own new product "bugs" starts flooding the market, the old 87-V being held in stock at the re-sellers and dealers will still sell well, because many people will want this last version of the "good run."

It's pure marketing.

[eKretz]

I can tell that Fungus hasn't ever worked in volume manufacturing. Materials become unavailable ALL the time. Vendors go out of business, get delayed,  etc. A batch of material could become contaminated and be designated as faulty,  which means it has to go in the trash,  etc. Shit happens...Murphy and all that.

It's not at all inconceivable that the change was on purpose,  but who knows. I know in my business I sure as hell wouldn't announce new product until a lot of the old model can be cleared out.

[Vtile]

Fluke has worked hard to gain their reputation for quality/reliable meters, it's how they justify their prices.

Are they really going to start making junk in China and throw all that hard work away?

Nope.

If they're manufacturing in China you can bet they'll use the exact same machinery/plastics/processes that they use in the USA.

So did HP and they did go through the bottom in one time frame.

[eKretz]

Yes it can be extremely difficult to keep up good QC in China, et al. Without a good manager it's virtually impossible.

[floobydust]

If we're saying Fluke moved some of their 87-V manufacturing off-shore, then I question the "Made in USA" injection-molded text on the rear cover.

Made in the USA claim is a standard regulated by the FTC

I could see the PCB's being populated in china and final assembly/calibration done in USA. Enclosure plastics are made someplace that doesn't know the difference between red and gray.

But "...a "screwdriver" assembly in the U.S. of foreign components into a final product at the end of the manufacturing process doesn’t usually qualify for the "Assembled in USA" claim."

[tooki]

They don't say Made in USA on the rear case. Only the protective bumper says that, which is a separate part from the meter itself.

Do you really, truly think Fluke would open itself up to the liability of lying about place of manufacture? You know damned well that their lawyers are gonna use precisely the most positive sounding wording that the law allows for their situation, but no more.

[BMack]

Literally had Fluke say that it was still made in the USA. Literally had another user with the grey plug say that his box said "Made in the USA" yet people are STILL assuming it's being made in China. 

We know the components are global...that's not a surprise or anything new.