Author Topic: Fluke 87V successor from Fluke?  (Read 13510 times)

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Offline Jeroen3

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Re: Fluke 87V successor from Fluke?
« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2017, 11:14:41 PM »
When I'm working on the bench the 289 meter is the one I choose. The screen is larger so it will show min-max-avg + time, it can do Hz and V together. It does AC+DC, while still also showing only AC/DC.
I've used it a lot, but a trend feature I have not found? Is that hidden somewhere?

When I'm not at my bench, nothing beats the 87.

Lol, the 28 is the same except for waterproofing and fuse access. Rather strange choice to lower the model number?
 

Offline stj

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Re: Fluke 87V successor from Fluke?
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2017, 12:03:38 AM »
some modern technology would be nice,
given the fact that the chinese are producing small OLED and TFT colour displays for peanuts now, there is no reason not to use them on a meter.

keysite does offer OLED on a few models - but it really needs a much wider adoption.
maybe chinese company's like UNI-T should start the ball rolling to force the hand of the more expensive manufacturers.

as someone who often uses a meter while laying on the floor behind or under something, i really am sick of using monochrome lcd displays!
i almost wish i still had an oldschool meter with a red led display!!!
 

Offline Jeroen3

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Re: Fluke 87V successor from Fluke?
« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2017, 12:20:48 AM »
Other display types use a lot more power. They will have to add lithium batteries and charger ports. Wireless charging for the CAT ratings.
 

Online BravoV

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Re: Fluke 87V successor from Fluke?
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2017, 12:37:09 AM »
Other than proven LCD technology, even though still quite limiting, the other factor is temperature range which the DMM is designed to work at.

If I'm not mistaken, I read is somewhere, the LCD at 28X is designed to work at extreme temperature either cold and warm.

Offline BMack

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Re: Fluke 87V successor from Fluke?
« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2017, 12:40:15 AM »
I personally don't want a OLED or TFT display, I want a dual display and I want it in the same size or smaller...or the same specs and robustness but smaller(with the same size screen).
 

Offline Muxr

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Re: Fluke 87V successor from Fluke?
« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2017, 01:40:47 AM »
some modern technology would be nice,
given the fact that the chinese are producing small OLED and TFT colour displays for peanuts now, there is no reason not to use them on a meter.

keysite does offer OLED on a few models - but it really needs a much wider adoption.
maybe chinese company's like UNI-T should start the ball rolling to force the hand of the more expensive manufacturers.

as someone who often uses a meter while laying on the floor behind or under something, i really am sick of using monochrome lcd displays!
i almost wish i still had an oldschool meter with a red led display!!!
Personally I prefer LCD. 87V battery power consumption is ridiculously low as a result. OLED also suffers from burn in issues.

One of my favourite things about 87V is the fact that it's always ready to go.. I can seemingly go years without replacing batteries on it.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Fluke 87V successor from Fluke?
« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2017, 01:45:15 AM »
I agree, LCD is ideal for a meter, it's low power, easy to read, reliable, what possible benefit is there to color? Why use a power hungry and unreliable OLED to display numbers? I can think of no benefit of moving away from a simple backlit LCD.
 

Offline Testing123

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Re: Fluke 87V successor from Fluke?
« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2017, 03:04:30 AM »
I've not used OLED, but have heard that they can be more difficult to read (see, view, etc.) outside in sunlight as opposed to LCD.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 03:06:01 AM by Testing123 »
 

Offline stj

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Re: Fluke 87V successor from Fluke?
« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2017, 03:48:10 AM »
that may be true, but a lot of us dont see much sunlight - or even much light at all while working!
 

Online Fungus

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Re: Fluke 87V successor from Fluke?
« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2017, 04:01:51 AM »
I agree, LCD is ideal for a meter, it's low power, easy to read, reliable, what possible benefit is there to color? Why use a power hungry and unreliable OLED to display numbers?

Because they're pretty!
 

Offline mzacharias

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Re: Fluke 87V successor from Fluke?
« Reply #35 on: May 18, 2017, 05:03:22 AM »
Hows the Fluke 28II compared to this ? i know its same meter but is it a good idea to have these two metres ?
It is the same meter in terms of most of its functionality and specs, but pcb layout wise, the 28 II is clearly more cleanly laid out. If the same price, I would choose the Fluke 28 II myself.

I had a 28II for a while. On mine at least - the continuity beeper was barely audible compared to the 87V. Probably because of the IP67 case.
 

Offline stj

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Re: Fluke 87V successor from Fluke?
« Reply #36 on: May 18, 2017, 06:01:58 AM »
I agree, LCD is ideal for a meter, it's low power, easy to read, reliable, what possible benefit is there to color? Why use a power hungry and unreliable OLED to display numbers?

Because they're pretty!

they give better contrast and because most are a matrix instead of a bunch of segments and symbols, the size of the numbers can be changed for readability - if it's written into the firmware of course.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Fluke 87V successor from Fluke?
« Reply #37 on: May 18, 2017, 06:11:29 AM »
If you want pretty, buy a flashy bling bling Chinese meter. Fluke is a serious tool, a meter for people who value function over form. I frequently use mine out in direct sunlight where TFT and even OLED would be useless. I also use it in dark spaces, which the backlight enables. 

I love my 87-III, the only thing I wish it had was a diode test beep like my old 73 had. If they redesigned it around some stupid flashy new display I would not buy it. The reflective LCD is ideal for the task at hand, it provides a very clear display that is readable under a very wide range of conditions. Zero complaints about the display.
 

Offline slurry

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Re: Fluke 87V successor from Fluke?
« Reply #38 on: May 18, 2017, 06:30:49 AM »
I'm happy with my two 289's, i use it quite a lot and does not really agree with the battery consumption being a problem, but my specimen may be a good one and i use them for a fairly short time everytime i use them.

Being a bit of a brick, it demands some space in my servicebag, but, nowadays i dont have to haul a benchtop multimeter with me to get the precision and resolution and dB over 600 \$\Omega\$ that i need, it's all there in the 289  :-+
Also i'm satisfied with the flukeview forms work  :-DMM

At a quick comparison with my two Agilent/Keysight meters... they suck and is left on the shelf for most of the time.
 

Offline MiroS

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Re: Fluke 87V successor from Fluke?
« Reply #39 on: May 18, 2017, 06:53:06 AM »
We have now 2017 :) therefore I thing 87V is missing several features:
- It seems not a robust metter , prtection circuit seems to be outdated, even comparing to 101 -> see Joe tests
- Lacking good connectivity, really attaching separate devices to have BT ... this is almost free those days for other 'free/cheap' metters
- Frequency counter - do I really need a cope to check if quartz is doing well, no really , even  some of 10usd metter are doing this better, almost all in now  populating microcontroller
- Simple serial monitor  - not a rich functionalty , simple serial montor, why I need to have a scope for a basic check ?
- Look at component tester for 10usd , it is doing better for several measurements/tests than 87v, why it is so ...
- 5 counts would be nice addition
- Dual display (sic!) amd  better display , some of cheap metters offer are doing this better than 87V
etc. etc. etc.
I think it is  time to release a new modern universal metter, good  V/I/R/C may be not enaught thse days, see  Brymen.
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: Fluke 87V successor from Fluke?
« Reply #40 on: May 18, 2017, 07:15:13 AM »
maybe chinese company's like UNI-T should start the ball rolling to force the hand of the more expensive manufacturers.

Uni-T has a UT181A that is high end and with OLED, but at only 25% lower price than U1273A, it doesn't sell well. It's more like a declaration to say "hey, we have the top product", and that's it.

BTW, OLED is awesome. My U1461A is visible under indirect sunlight (outdoor under shadow or indoor next to window), as well as under direct sunlight, if the angle is correct, it is still visible.
Regarding battery lifetime, both my F289 and U1461A don't chew batteries that quickly. I turn them off after each measurement, and so far, for 4 years of service, my F289 is running on its second or third set of batteries. My U1461A is still running on stock battery after 1 year of use.
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Offline Muxr

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Re: Fluke 87V successor from Fluke?
« Reply #41 on: May 18, 2017, 07:23:03 AM »
We have now 2017 :) therefore I thing 87V is missing several features:
- It seems not a robust metter , prtection circuit seems to be outdated, even comparing to 101 -> see Joe tests
- Lacking good connectivity, really attaching separate devices to have BT ... this is almost free those days for other 'free/cheap' metters
- Frequency counter - do I really need a cope to check if quartz is doing well, no really , even  some of 10usd metter are doing this better, almost all in now  populating microcontroller
- Simple serial monitor  - not a rich functionalty , simple serial montor, why I need to have a scope for a basic check ?
- Look at component tester for 10usd , it is doing better for several measurements/tests than 87v, why it is so ...
- 5 counts would be nice addition
- Dual display (sic!) amd  better display , some of cheap metters offer are doing this better than 87V
etc. etc. etc.
I think it is  time to release a new modern universal metter, good  V/I/R/C may be not enaught thse days, see  Brymen.
Good list, but it's missing the point of what 87V is. As james_s said 87V is not supposed to be a flashy meter.. it's supposed to be no frills streamlined and dependable.

Maybe Fluke needs to make something between 87V and 289 that has the features you mentioned. My only complaint with 87V is that it's too expensive. It really shouldn't cost more than $250-$300 in my opinion.

Like I don't know what happened but the price has gone up by like $100-$200 in the last two years:



Other than that I think it implements every feature perfectly well for a general purpose meter.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Fluke 87V successor from Fluke?
« Reply #42 on: May 18, 2017, 08:09:13 AM »
Also the 87 does have a frequency counter, at least my series III does. A 4 digit counter is only marginally useful but it is handy. Most of the other proposed features are just frills and gimmicks, there are already plenty of meters with that stuff on the market. The beauty of the Fluke 87 is that it's a tough industrial meter, made in the USA that does all the basic stuff and does it very well. That's been Fluke's philosophy for decades and it has worked well for them. Even some 30 years ago the ads were comparing dependable and safe Fluke meters to cheaper meters loaded with bells & whistles of dubious usefulness.
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Fluke 87V successor from Fluke?
« Reply #43 on: May 18, 2017, 09:45:58 AM »
For me the 87V paired up with my original 87-1 are both no frills 'get in and get out' work meters  :-+

The 189 takes it to the next level with straight up no brainer controls

The 289 takes it to ANY level as long as you spend some 'new toy' time playing with the menu system (weird at first but not rocket science)
and don't mind a few seconds of boot up time which apparently is a deal breaker for some ?!!  :wtf:   :palm:

Both 189 and 289 should be opened ocassionally to check and clean the infernal internal superCrapacitor, in case of leakage or beard stubble  |O

(Don't hold your breath waiting for Fluke to do anything about it if the meter is second hand or the receipt has gone MIA)    :--

I don't favor the 28-11 because of lame diode function and something else I can't remember   :-//


EDIT: here is the post re 28-11 issues 
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fluke-28-ii-battery-life/?all

« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 07:35:58 PM by Electro Detective »
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Fluke 87V successor from Fluke?
« Reply #44 on: May 18, 2017, 09:53:28 AM »
What does the supercap do in those? Supercaps are notoriously unreliable, they are a very common failure item in Davis weather stations.
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Fluke 87V successor from Fluke?
« Reply #45 on: May 18, 2017, 10:01:37 AM »
What does the supercap do in those? Supercaps are notoriously unreliable, they are a very common failure item in Davis weather stations.

These infernal pieces of capacitor HELL, get a LOT of cash strapped users (loyal CUSTOMERS) ticked off with apathetic Fluke about it   :--

Read all about it:
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fluke-189-with-leaking-surface-mount-coin-cell/?all
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 10:20:36 AM by Electro Detective »
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: Fluke 87V successor from Fluke?
« Reply #46 on: May 18, 2017, 10:02:14 AM »
What does the supercap do in those? Supercaps are notoriously unreliable, they are a very common failure item in Davis weather stations.

Keeping RTC running when main battery is being changed.
SIGSEGV is inevitable if you try to talk more than you know. If I say gibberish, keep in mind that my license plate is SIGSEGV.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Fluke 87V successor from Fluke?
« Reply #47 on: May 18, 2017, 10:04:23 AM »
It'd be nice if they just used a standard CR2032 coin cell instead, or dispense with the RTC entirely. I've never looked at my multimeter and wished it had a clock.
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Fluke 87V successor from Fluke?
« Reply #48 on: May 18, 2017, 10:14:48 AM »
It'd be nice if they just used a standard CR2032 coin cell instead, or dispense with the RTC entirely. I've never looked at my multimeter and wished it had a clock.

The clock biz is part of the logging function.

Then again, you just reset the dead crapacitor charged clock when putting in a fresh set of batteries which keep the RTC alive anyway



It's a DUMBASS design flaw come oversight and Fluke should drop the BS corporate excuses

and FIX ALL OF THEM FOR FREE  >>> UNCONDITIONALLY ! <<<




Someone had to say it, right ?  >:D
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 10:25:29 AM by Electro Detective »
 

Online Fungus

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Re: Fluke 87V successor from Fluke?
« Reply #49 on: May 18, 2017, 06:10:22 PM »
What does the supercap do in those? Supercaps are notoriously unreliable, they are a very common failure item in Davis weather stations.

Keeping RTC running when main battery is being changed.

Why does it need RTC? Data logging? Surely the device that's recording the values can have the clock.

A Bluetooth chip inside the meter would enable all sorts of things. Data logging, display of output on mobile phone (for all those people who think they need OLED), etc.

If Fluke wants to sell everybody a new meter then a simple, open, Bluetooth interface would be the way to go. Nothing fancy, just transmit the value on screen and type of reading (volts, ohms...) to whoever wants to listen.

Why use a power hungry and unreliable OLED to display numbers?
Because they're pretty!
they give better contrast
I'm sure I can find many lighting conditions where they give worse contrast.

and because most are a matrix instead of a bunch of segments and symbols, the size of the numbers can be changed for readability - if it's written into the firmware of course.
A good e-ink display would be better then OLED, and readable in bright light.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 07:06:05 PM by Fungus »
 


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