GDS-1054B vs SDS1104X-E entry-level oscilloscope?

[小太]

I'm looking for an entry-level 4ch 100MHz scope and from my searching so far, the GW Instek GDS-1054B and Siglent SDS1104X-E (both hackable) seems to meet my needs. The Rigol DS1054Z everybody loves to recommend is definitely not suitable for me, due to it's horrible FFT functionality.

I basically want to get an oscilloscope as a poor-man's signal analyser for low frequencies (20Hz ~ 70MHz), while being a general purpose oscilloscope (which is why I want 4 channels). Obviously a real SA will give better resolution, but it's not worth the $$$ for me from the prices I've seen ($1k+). An oscilloscope with FFT is like a 2-in-1 instrument for me, for half the cost!

Remote control is also important for me, for the ability to do further analysis and recording on the captured raw waveform(s) on a computer.

Which brings me to the GDS-1054B and SDS1104X-E, which seems to be the only scopes that satisfies my requirements for a good cost.
The main differences relevant for me seem to be:

Model	GDS-1054B (hacked)	SDS1104X-E (hacked)
Price	~$400	~$500
Channels	4 (dedicated controls)	4 (shared controls)
Bandwdith	100 MHz	200 MHz
Sample Rate	1 GSa/s @ 1ch 500 MSa/s @ 2ch 250 MSa/s @ 4ch	1 GSa/s @ 2ch 500 MSa/s @ 4ch
Sample Depth	8 bits	8 bits
Record Length	10 Mpt	14 Mpt/ch @ 2ch 7 MPt/ch @ 4ch
Oversampling	N/A	+3 bits @ 7 MHz
FFT Points	1 Mpt	1 Mpt
Wave Gen	N/A	+$270 addon (25 MHz)
Remote Control	SCPI (LAN / USB)*2	SCPI (LAN / USB) HTTP GUI

*² Doesn't seem to support dumping the waveform back over SCPI? Instead forces you to save to internal or USB disk? Would be a dealbreaker if true. :ACQuire<X>:MEMory?

So at least on paper, the SDS1104X-E seems better, for $100 more. Please correct me if I got anything wrong.
But the specs on paper doesn't tell me how useable the scopes are (except the lack of dedicated channel controls on the SDS1104X-E, a disadvantage).

Which is why I'm posting here, especially for those who've used these scopes before.
How does actually using the scopes feel like? Does anyone have any particular complaints about the scopes and/or their interfaces that I should know?
Do you think $100 extra for the SDS1104X-E worth it? Or $370 extra if I include the AWG (or should I just buy an external wave gen...)?

[nctnico]

AFAIK the extra features the GDS1054B has are input filtering, free-form math and in segmented mode you actually have 20Mpts per channel. From testing with my GDS-2204E it turns out the data transfer over the network is extremely fast compared to other oscilloscopes; I don't expect the GDS1054B to be any different.

About the waveform generator: buy an external one. An internal waveform generator is only worth it's money when it is free.

[Fungus]

How does actually using the scopes feel like? Does anyone have any particular complaints about the scopes and/or their interfaces that I should know?

The Instek user interface has a killer feature: A separate button to select menu items. No pushing of the stupid multi function knob.

Go to 8:40 in this video... 

[nctnico]

Thanks Fungus; I completely forgot about that! Rotary & select in-one-buttons can be a nuisance to use. Often you'll turn the knob enough to select something else.

[Old Printer]

Don't think the scope in the video is the GDS-1054B. Junior points out it has dual function generators where as the 1054B has none available according to the above chart by the OP. Maybe the button select feature is also on the 1054B as well as the scope in the vid. Does anyone know what model it actually is? Does not appear to be a $400 scope.

[2N3055]

That is GDS-2204A

[小太]

From testing with my GDS-2204E it turns out the data transfer over the network is extremely fast compared to other oscilloscopes; I don't expect the GDS1054B to be any different.

How are you connecting to the scope? What commands are you using to download the data?
The programming manual for the GDS-1054B seems to lack the typical WAVEform command to download the data. The closest I can find is :SAVe:WAVEform (page 138), but that's only saving to internal memory or USB drive.

[nctnico]

From testing with my GDS-2204E it turns out the data transfer over the network is extremely fast compared to other oscilloscopes; I don't expect the GDS1054B to be any different.

How are you connecting to the scope? What commands are you using to download the data?
The programming manual for the GDS-1054B seems to lack the typical WAVEform command to download the data. The closest I can find is :SAVe:WAVEform (page 138), but that's only saving to internal memory or USB drive.

The ACQuire<X>:MEMory? command should do this.

[tautech]

@ 小太
Correction of the SDS1004X-E memory depth spec:
14 Mpts x 2.
This arises from each ADC having 14 Mpts memory support and with an active channel on each ADC you'll still have a max of 14 Mpts for those 2 channels. With 4 channels active, max mem depth is 7 Mpts.

For remote control the inbuilt X-E webserver and its SCPI panel or just using a mouse shown here in an in-house video:

https://youtu.be/Cxh_Liay09E?t=104

This works well and exactly as shown and it's simple to implement.

[Old Printer]

That is GDS-2204A

Thanks. That is an $1800 scope with a 8" screen. It appears that the select button is on both models. Only wanted to point out the scope in the vid that jr. is drooling over is not the 1054-B, though it does share at least a few similar features.

I did look into the 1054B before going with the 1104X but in the end felt the Siglent was based on a more current design. The technology in this grade of scope is in such rapid change, and the urge for me was to be current, without necessarily being a first adopter, as in the Rigol 5000, but the additional $500 made that a much  easier choice. A year ago or so I saw someone buy both of his final choices and return the looser. Might do that yet, but FedEx just dropped off mt new toy, so first things first! Gotta fire it up, right after I RTFM

[nctnico]

If you take these scopes apart then I'd be surprised if the BOM is very different. The ADC will be the same one (although the SDS1104X-E will have twice as many) and the Zync FPGA is likely the same model as well. Most of the difference is in the software and the front panel layout.

Either way getting both oscilloscopes and returning the one you like least is a good strategy.

[tautech]

That is GDS-2204A

Thanks. That is an $1800 scope with a 8" screen. It appears that the select button is on both models. Only wanted to point out the scope in the vid that jr. is drooling over is not the 1054-B, though it does share at least a few similar features.

I did look into the 1054B before going with the 1104X but in the end felt the Siglent was based on a more current design. The technology in this grade of scope is in such rapid change, and the urge for me was to be current, without necessarily being a first adopter, as in the Rigol 5000, but the additional $500 made that a much  easier choice. A year ago or so I saw someone buy both of his final choices and return the looser. Might do that yet, but FedEx just dropped off mt new toy, so first things first! Gotta fire it up, right after I RTFM

Careful you don't go into information overload ! 

Seriously, there is so much functionality in these units so just start with KISS by compensating probes and assigning them to channels to get a basic feel for the UI.
Then before getting to carried away consider finding your preferred setup (input attenuation, V/div, timebase, channel positions, Trigger type etc) and Save them as your personal Default setup. You can return it to Factory Default at anytime and/or change it to better suit your needs as confidence grows.

[Old Printer]

That is GDS-2204A

Thanks. That is an $1800 scope with a 8" screen. It appears that the select button is on both models. Only wanted to point out the scope in the vid that jr. is drooling over is not the 1054-B, though it does share at least a few similar features.

I did look into the 1054B before going with the 1104X but in the end felt the Siglent was based on a more current design. The technology in this grade of scope is in such rapid change, and the urge for me was to be current, without necessarily being a first adopter, as in the Rigol 5000, but the additional $500 made that a much  easier choice. A year ago or so I saw someone buy both of his final choices and return the looser. Might do that yet, but FedEx just dropped off mt new toy, so first things first! Gotta fire it up, right after I RTFM

Careful you don't go into information overload ! 

Seriously, there is so much functionality in these units so just start with KISS by compensating probes and assigning them to channels to get a basic feel for the UI.
Then before getting to carried away consider finding your preferred setup (input attenuation, V/div, timebase, channel positions, Trigger type etc) and Save them as your personal Default setup. You can return it to Factory Default at anytime and/or change it to better suit your needs as confidence grows.

Good advice, I will take it. I have been pondering which DSO to purchase for a good two or three years, but had the Analog Discovery 2 to keep me going. I have the feeling this is the tip of the iceberg

[tautech]

That is GDS-2204A

Thanks. That is an $1800 scope with a 8" screen. It appears that the select button is on both models. Only wanted to point out the scope in the vid that jr. is drooling over is not the 1054-B, though it does share at least a few similar features.

I did look into the 1054B before going with the 1104X but in the end felt the Siglent was based on a more current design. The technology in this grade of scope is in such rapid change, and the urge for me was to be current, without necessarily being a first adopter, as in the Rigol 5000, but the additional $500 made that a much  easier choice. A year ago or so I saw someone buy both of his final choices and return the looser. Might do that yet, but FedEx just dropped off mt new toy, so first things first! Gotta fire it up, right after I RTFM

Careful you don't go into information overload ! 

Seriously, there is so much functionality in these units so just start with KISS by compensating probes and assigning them to channels to get a basic feel for the UI.
Then before getting to carried away consider finding your preferred setup (input attenuation, V/div, timebase, channel positions, Trigger type etc) and Save them as your personal Default setup. You can return it to Factory Default at anytime and/or change it to better suit your needs as confidence grows.

Good advice, I will take it. I have been pondering which DSO to purchase for a good two or three years, but had the Analog Discovery 2 to keep me going. I have the feeling this is the tip of the iceberg

Somewhat but it's how you attack understanding all the functionality IMHO.

Eg. I did a course a few years back (not EE related) where we were not expected to cram all the info given but instead know how to use the manual and how to find the info needed. That was what we were tested on not retention of the stuff we were taught.

So know were to find stuff when required and the full pdf manual is pretty good in that each topic is linked from the List of Contents page.
Have fun. 

[Old Printer]

That is GDS-2204A

Thanks. That is an $1800 scope with a 8" screen. It appears that the select button is on both models. Only wanted to point out the scope in the vid that jr. is drooling over is not the 1054-B, though it does share at least a few similar features.

I did look into the 1054B before going with the 1104X but in the end felt the Siglent was based on a more current design. The technology in this grade of scope is in such rapid change, and the urge for me was to be current, without necessarily being a first adopter, as in the Rigol 5000, but the additional $500 made that a much  easier choice. A year ago or so I saw someone buy both of his final choices and return the looser. Might do that yet, but FedEx just dropped off mt new toy, so first things first! Gotta fire it up, right after I RTFM

Careful you don't go into information overload ! 

Seriously, there is so much functionality in these units so just start with KISS by compensating probes and assigning them to channels to get a basic feel for the UI.
Then before getting to carried away consider finding your preferred setup (input attenuation, V/div, timebase, channel positions, Trigger type etc) and Save them as your personal Default setup. You can return it to Factory Default at anytime and/or change it to better suit your needs as confidence grows.

Good advice, I will take it. I have been pondering which DSO to purchase for a good two or three years, but had the Analog Discovery 2 to keep me going. I have the feeling this is the tip of the iceberg

Somewhat but it's how you attack understanding all the functionality IMHO.

Eg. I did a course a few years back (not EE related) where we were not expected to cram all the info given but instead know how to use the manual and how to find the info needed. That was what we were tested on not retention of the stuff we were taught.

So know were to find stuff when required and the full pdf manual is pretty good in that each topic is linked from the List of Contents page.
Have fun. 

That is an excellent approach, and a frame of mind I am developing. At 66 I only have so much time to learn an awful lot of stuff. Awhile back I started tuning up my math but at the same time realized that there are online calculators that I can use so I don't HAVE to commit it all to memory. Organizing knowledge resources and learning to navigate them efficiently is my goal. Have you seen an online course or lesson to help develop this mindset ?

[tautech]

That is an excellent approach, and a frame of mind I am developing. At 66 I only have so much time to learn an awful lot of stuff. Awhile back I started tuning up my math but at the same time realized that there are online calculators that I can use so I don't HAVE to commit it all to memory. Organizing knowledge resources and learning to navigate them efficiently is my goal. Have you seen an online course or lesson to help develop this mindset ?

No I haven't but it struck me as a excellent way to go about finding things when you need them instead off cramming lots of stuff into our heads like we had to in school.
Like you there is so much stuff from a lifetime of learning there's no possible way to have it at your finger tips for when you need it so the 'know where to find it' approach is the method I use now and to some degree I'm sure the age of the 'net has us thinking like this too.
I've just hit the big 60 but this EE and scope stuff has my mind more active than it's ever been.....so we have to develop 'methods' before we run out of and start losing memory cells. 

Oh, and as you're new to the X-E's, the blue Print button shoots a screenshot directly to a thumb drive.
Good idea to have a relevant menu displayed so everyone can see the settings used.
Have fun.........

[Old Printer]

That is an excellent approach, and a frame of mind I am developing. At 66 I only have so much time to learn an awful lot of stuff. Awhile back I started tuning up my math but at the same time realized that there are online calculators that I can use so I don't HAVE to commit it all to memory. Organizing knowledge resources and learning to navigate them efficiently is my goal. Have you seen an online course or lesson to help develop this mindset ?

No I haven't but it struck me as a excellent way to go about finding things when you need them instead off cramming lots of stuff into our heads like we had to in school.
Like you there is so much stuff from a lifetime of learning there's no possible way to have it at your finger tips for when you need it so the 'know where to find it' approach is the method I use now and to some degree I'm sure the age of the 'net has us thinking like this too.
I've just hit the big 60 but this EE and scope stuff has my mind more active than it's ever been.....so we have to develop 'methods' before we run out of and start losing memory cells. 

Oh, and as you're new to the X-E's, the blue Print button shoots a screenshot directly to a thumb drive.
Good idea to have a relevant menu displayed so everyone can see the settings used.
Have fun.........

Agreed on all points. Don't want to drag this thread off too far so I will start a new one when I have a question I cannot answer for myself.

[Fungus]

Don't think the scope in the video is the GDS-1054B.

The GDS-1054B works the same way for menu selections.

[nctnico]

Don't think the scope in the video is the GDS-1054B.

The GDS-1054B works the same way for menu selections.

Indeed. The firmware is identical for recent GW Instek oscilloscopes. The casings are also the same. The GDS1054B has a smaller display though and therefore it has a thicker black border around the screen.

[tautech]

The main differences relevant for me seem to be:

Model	GDS-1054B (hacked)	SDS1104X-E (hacked)
Price	~$400	~$500
Channels	4 (dedicated controls)	4 (shared controls)
Bandwdith	100 MHz	200 MHz
Sample Rate	1 GSa/s @ 1ch 500 MSa/s @ 2ch 250 MSa/s @ 4ch	1 GSa/s @ 2ch 500 MSa/s @ 4ch
Sample Depth	8 bits	8 bits
Record Length	10 Mpt	14 Mpt/ch @ 2ch 7 MPt/ch @ 4ch
Oversampling	N/A	+3 bits @ 7 MHz
FFT Points	1 Mpt	1 Mpt
Wave Gen N/A +$270 addon (25 MHz) Remote Control SCPI (LAN / USB)*2 SCPI (LAN / USB) HTTP GUI So at least on paper, the SDS1104X-E seems better, for $100 more. Please correct me if I got anything wrong. But the specs on paper doesn't tell me how useable the scopes are (except the lack of dedicated channel controls on the SDS1104X-E, a disadvantage). Which is why I'm posting here, especially for those who've used these scopes before. How does actually using the scopes feel like? Does anyone have any particular complaints about the scopes and/or their interfaces that I should know? Do you think $100 extra for the SDS1104X-E worth it? Or $370 extra if I include the AWG (or should I just buy an external wave gen...)?

Just spotted your errors. ^^^
The SAG1021 HW is just $159 and to use it as an AWG from the SDS1104X-E does require the license ($109) but as you seem to want to liberate it then just the $159 is the additional cost.
To get a 2ch AWG standalone of decent capability that will interface seamlessly with the SDS1104X-E for Bode plots the 30 MHz SDG1032X would be a good pairing for an additional $359.[/td][/tr][/table]

[Performa01]

Just to add:

1. SDS1004X-E has segmented memory (permanent history plus sequence mode) with up to 54Mpts per channel pair.
2. SDS1004X-E has an actually useful 3-channel frequency response analyser (Bode Plot) with >70dB usable dynamic range and an even more powerful version of this can be expected with a forthcoming firmware update.
3. The integrated webserver allows a real-time remote operation and view (with ~10fps), as well as instant screenshots and fast sample data download.

[nctnico]

OTOH there are several features the Siglent doesn't have but the GDS1054B has so all in all it really depends on what the OP finds most important. I don't think you can say which one of these oscilloscopes is the best in general. It depends entirely on the requirements and preference of the user.

[TK]

GDS1054B does not seem to have serial decoding option unless it is hacked, so it could be a 100% unsupported feature.  It means that if will never be fixed if there is any bug in the code.

We need confirmation from an actual GDS1054B user.

[nctnico]

GDS1054B does not seem to have serial decoding option unless it is hacked, so it could be a 100% unsupported feature.  It means that if will never be fixed if there is any bug in the code.

We need confirmation from an actual GDS1054B user.

AFAIK this has already been confirmed. And since the firmware has the same base as the higher spec models a bug in one of those will be fixed automatically in the GDS1054B as well.  OTOH the firmware is already mature anyway so needing a firmware fix is highly unlikely.

[frogblender]

GDS1054B does not seem to have serial decoding option unless it is hacked, so it could be a 100% unsupported feature.  It means that if will never be fixed if there is any bug in the code.

We need confirmation from an actual GDS1054B user.

Confirmed by an actual GDS-1054b user.   1.24 fw, hacked.   Serial decode works "a treat".