Group buy proposal: VoltageStandard DMMCheck Plus

[unimorpheus]

I have been looking for a DMM reference standard for several new and used DMMs I just acquired. Thus far it seems the most capable and affordable device I have come across is the  DMMCheck Plus which seems to have been discontinued by VoltageStandard. As it seems there are quite a few people on the forum who have also recently acquired new gear I wanted to know if there was any interest in a  DMMCheck  Plus group buy. To be clear I have not run this idea by Doug Malone of VoltageStandard so I do not have any commitment on the production of these devices. I wanted to gauge the level of interest on the forum and if the numbers were high enough I though maybe he would consider a limited run. No idea on current pricing, timeline or any other details. Just floating the idea. 

[CustomEngineerer]

I had hoped to buy a DMMCheck Plus last week until I found they were discontinued.

[iainwhite]

I would be interested in joining a group buy for the DMMCheck Plus
 

[xrunner]

I had hoped to buy a DMMCheck Plus last week until I found they were discontinued.

That's what I thought too. 

[rrinker]

 LOL just posted about this in another thread. I have one, and love it, it's quite handy to have. I wonder why he discontinued it. Now all he seems to be selling are voltage standards.

[HighVoltage]

sometimes they show up on ebay for around $ 100
I have one as well it it works really well.

[TiN]

Mid-level references are uneconomical. Too much trouble to maintain the thing properly, with iceberg of hidden costs.

[unimorpheus]

Sent earlier today.

"Mr. Malone,

I would like to direct your attention to a forum topic I created regarding your discontinued DMMCheck Plus device. I am currently gauging interest on the forum and while I have not received many responses to date the responses I have received have been very favorable. I obviously don't know what the threshold of economic feasibility is for the resurrection of this product line but I thought you should know some of us are at least having the conversation. Thank you for your time and efforts."

[unimorpheus]

Mid-level references are uneconomical. Too much trouble to maintain the thing properly, with iceberg of hidden costs.

Could you please elaborate?

[sequoia]

I would be interested in getting one as well.

[tautech]

I'll put my hand up for one. 

[tautech]

Mid-level references are uneconomical. Too much trouble to maintain the thing properly, with iceberg of hidden costs.

Could you please elaborate?

TiN is one of our forum's metrology nuts, a good thing.....if you need 7+ digit accuracy.

5 units is plenty for a sanity check of your HH DMM.

A customer that I sold 15 Fluke 15B to got a DMMCheck to align them all perfectly for classroom use....you can't have students not all agreeing to the last digit on a 3 1/2 digit DMM. 

[guenthert]

Mid-level references are uneconomical. Too much trouble to maintain the thing properly, with iceberg of hidden costs.

Could you please elaborate?

Can't speak for TiN, but he might be referring to the experience made by Joe Geller, who also offered a fine voltage reference for hobbyists, but learned that it was not a viable business.  He shared his experience here: http://www.gellerlabs.com/about.html
At the high end the labs charge good money to stay afloat and the cheap AD584 references aren't really calibrated, at best compared to a mid-level DMM itself of questionable calibration.  It's in the middle where it's apparently difficult.
  It's a pity really.  I'm proud owner of a DMMCheck, which as far as I can tell works as advertized.  I missed out on Mr. Geller's reference, but you find quite a few quotes of satisfied customers.

[tautech]

Old link from browser but not for the Plus model.
http://www.voltagestandard.com/DMMCheck.html

The Plus has been mentioned recently in another thread:

IIRC it was ~$ 70, but its redeeming feature was it contained a # of standards; voltage, resistance and frequency....
Mr B will put us right on just what it had. 

Yes it was about USD70 shipped.
It has:
10VDC
1mA
1K, 10K, 100K

The DMMCheck 'Plus' version had ACV, ACmA and frequency.
It was a bit more expensive and I chose the cheaper option at the time.

I also have one of the cheap USD20 units out of China that has DCV only, but switchable between 2.5, 5, 7.5 and 10.
It is very good for the price.

[SvanGool]

The description of the DMMCheck Plus is still here: http://www.voltagestandard.com/DMMCheck_Plus.html

[xrunner]

The Plus is still here: http://www.voltagestandard.com/DMMCheck_Plus.html

Discontinued Products

The following products have been discontinued:
Vref5-002
DMMCheck
DMMCheck Plus

Even though these products are no longer in production they will continue to be supported (Calibration and Repair) at least through 2019

http://www.voltagestandard.com/Discontinued_Products.html

[11Bravo49417]

I would buy one. 

[Luap2]

I am in, if he will make some more

[TiN]

Mid-level references are uneconomical. Too much trouble to maintain the thing properly, with iceberg of hidden costs.

Could you please elaborate?

Sure, mid-level references, which targeted for serious hobbyist with 5.5-6.5-digit DMM already require expensive and time consuming support framework, to meet the specification requirements.
It's easy to design and assembly bunch of boards with ref chip, and BOM cost is reasonably low. However backing up listed specifications even to meet 5.5-digit meter stability requirements with good confidence dictate need of having stable and validated DC standard such as 732A/B or similar, stable and properly cared reference meter, such as 3458A or similar. Now even if we assume that all this gear available and ready to use, we still need to maintain calibrations (which are 500+$ for DC standard, 1000+$USD for reference meter) annually. Then add scanning setup and long-term testing, as you need to be sure reference is stable and that test cannot be done in day or week. Automating setup and data processing is another effort required, to keep everything running.

So in the end you have hours and hours of work, cost of maintenance of expensive support equipment to build and sell little reference boards. Surely all that cost can be factored into the product price, but try to explain to Joe-doe why a PCB with 30$ BOM (anybody can google up AD584 price and few 5ppm/K resistors) costs over 100$ in the end? That also confirmed by my own attempt to sell tested reference AT the BOM cost, with FREE testing, which took 4 months to get sold.

[Alex Nikitin]

Mid-level references are uneconomical. Too much trouble to maintain the thing properly, with iceberg of hidden costs.

Could you please elaborate?

Sure, mid-level references, which targeted for serious hobbyist with 5.5-6.5-digit DMM already require expensive and time consuming support framework, to meet the specification requirements.
It's easy to design and assembly bunch of boards with ref chip, and BOM cost is reasonably low. However backing up listed specifications even to meet 5.5-digit meter stability requirements with good confidence dictate need of having stable and validated DC standard such as 732A/B or similar, stable and properly cared reference meter, such as 3458A or similar. Now even if we assume that all this gear available and ready to use, we still need to maintain calibrations (which are 500+$ for DC standard, 1000+$USD for reference meter) annually. Then add scanning setup and long-term testing, as you need to be sure reference is stable and that test cannot be done in day or week. Automating setup and data processing is another effort required, to keep everything running.

So in the end you have hours and hours of work, cost of maintenance of expensive support equipment to build and sell little reference boards. Surely all that cost can be factored into the product price, but try to explain to Joe-doe why a PCB with 30$ BOM (anybody can google up AD584 price and few 5ppm/K resistors) costs over 100$ in the end? That also confirmed by my own attempt to sell tested reference AT the BOM cost, with FREE testing, which took 4 months to get sold.

Yes. Accuracy costs money and there is no way around it. You can have a cheap reference or you can have an accurate reference but not both. On the other hand, I'm offering a free to use for a week or a couple of weeks calibrated reference which is good for 5.5 digit meters check (and possibly up to 6.5 digits but it only can be confirmed after some months of travelling and repeated measurements). I need it to go around and be used, to gain some statistics and see if it can be improved for another build, however for over two weeks there are no requests and no apparent interest. I thought a regularly checked and calibrated reference with a known history and good accuracy, available for postage costs only to check meters and references for a hobbyist  makes a good sense, but perhaps I was wrong?

Cheers

Alex

[unimorpheus]

Mid-level references are uneconomical. Too much trouble to maintain the thing properly, with iceberg of hidden costs.

Could you please elaborate?

Sure, mid-level references, which targeted for serious hobbyist with 5.5-6.5-digit DMM already require expensive and time consuming support framework, to meet the specification requirements.
It's easy to design and assembly bunch of boards with ref chip, and BOM cost is reasonably low. However backing up listed specifications even to meet 5.5-digit meter stability requirements with good confidence dictate need of having stable and validated DC standard such as 732A/B or similar, stable and properly cared reference meter, such as 3458A or similar. Now even if we assume that all this gear available and ready to use, we still need to maintain calibrations (which are 500+$ for DC standard, 1000+$USD for reference meter) annually. Then add scanning setup and long-term testing, as you need to be sure reference is stable and that test cannot be done in day or week. Automating setup and data processing is another effort required, to keep everything running.

So in the end you have hours and hours of work, cost of maintenance of expensive support equipment to build and sell little reference boards. Surely all that cost can be factored into the product price, but try to explain to Joe-doe why a PCB with 30$ BOM (anybody can google up AD584 price and few 5ppm/K resistors) costs over 100$ in the end? That also confirmed by my own attempt to sell tested reference AT the BOM cost, with FREE testing, which took 4 months to get sold.

Thank you for the details. Being relatively new here I am not familiar with a lot of the history. Seems to be the same economic pattern I see in every market. Price trumps quality, performance and every other metric. While it make some sense in the consumer market I don't understand this logic in the technical market where the merits of a product justify the cost. Why then do we buy 8.5 digit meters when you could buy 10 5.5 digit meters with the same money? Rhetorical question I know.

[Cerebus]

On the other hand, I'm offering a free to use for a week or a couple of weeks calibrated reference which is good for 5.5 digit meters check (and possibly up to 6.5 digits but it only can be confirmed after some months of travelling and repeated measurements). I need it to go around and be used, to gain some statistics and see if it can be improved for another build, however for over two weeks there are no requests and no apparent interest. I thought a regularly checked and calibrated reference with a known history and good accuracy, available for postage costs only to check meters and references for a hobbyist  makes a good sense, but perhaps I was wrong?

Well, I, for one, missed this. Perhaps others missed it too? You might try asking again and see if you get some/more traction.

I'm not sure if I can offer any usefully accurate measurements [current state of play chez Cerebus is one of poor traceability], but if your reference wants a little holiday in London I can offer it all the (well regulated) current it can eat and it can enjoy some friendly conversation with some LM399s. At least you might get to see what a round-trip does to it.

[xrunner]

Sent earlier today.

"Mr. Malone,

I would like to direct your attention to a forum topic I created regarding your discontinued DMMCheck Plus device. I am currently gauging interest on the forum and while I have not received many responses to date the responses I have received have been very favorable. I obviously don't know what the threshold of economic feasibility is for the resurrection of this product line but I thought you should know some of us are at least having the conversation. Thank you for your time and efforts."

Any reply? 

[technogeeky]

Mid-level references are uneconomical. Too much trouble to maintain the thing properly, with iceberg of hidden costs.

Could you please elaborate?

Sure, mid-level references, which targeted for serious hobbyist with 5.5-6.5-digit DMM already require expensive and time consuming support framework, to meet the specification requirements.
It's easy to design and assembly bunch of boards with ref chip, and BOM cost is reasonably low. However backing up listed specifications even to meet 5.5-digit meter stability requirements with good confidence dictate need of having stable and validated DC standard such as 732A/B or similar, stable and properly cared reference meter, such as 3458A or similar. Now even if we assume that all this gear available and ready to use, we still need to maintain calibrations (which are 500+$ for DC standard, 1000+$USD for reference meter) annually. Then add scanning setup and long-term testing, as you need to be sure reference is stable and that test cannot be done in day or week. Automating setup and data processing is another effort required, to keep everything running.

So in the end you have hours and hours of work, cost of maintenance of expensive support equipment to build and sell little reference boards. Surely all that cost can be factored into the product price, but try to explain to Joe-doe why a PCB with 30$ BOM (anybody can google up AD584 price and few 5ppm/K resistors) costs over 100$ in the end? That also confirmed by my own attempt to sell tested reference AT the BOM cost, with FREE testing, which took 4 months to get sold.

Yes. Accuracy costs money and there is no way around it. You can have a cheap reference or you can have an accurate reference but not both. On the other hand, I'm offering a free to use for a week or a couple of weeks calibrated reference which is good for 5.5 digit meters check (and possibly up to 6.5 digits but it only can be confirmed after some months of travelling and repeated measurements). I need it to go around and be used, to gain some statistics and see if it can be improved for another build, however for over two weeks there are no requests and no apparent interest. I thought a regularly checked and calibrated reference with a known history and good accuracy, available for postage costs only to check meters and references for a hobbyist  makes a good sense, but perhaps I was wrong?

Cheers

Alex

This kind of thing is exactly what I asked the maker of voltagestandard.com about. He didn't answer my question, but I didn't ask it very well either. I wasn't interested in group buy; I was interested in making traveling voltage standards (the Pentaref model). So you would make a set of references, acquire a set of customers who pay some kind of either annual or one-time fee, and the voltage standards are programmed to suit each customer, checked out like library books, used for a few weeks, and then returned. Then they would be reprogrammed for different voltage values, and sent out again.

I actually need a voltage reference (I need specific voltages though, 190.000 mV, 1.90000 V, 19.0000V, 190.000V, and 1000.00V) to calibrate some Keithley 197s which are 220,000 count "5.5 digit" multimeters. I didn't know you were sending around a reference!

 

[unimorpheus]

Sent earlier today.

"Mr. Malone,

I would like to direct your attention to a forum topic I created regarding your discontinued DMMCheck Plus device. I am currently gauging interest on the forum and while I have not received many responses to date the responses I have received have been very favorable. I obviously don't know what the threshold of economic feasibility is for the resurrection of this product line but I thought you should know some of us are at least having the conversation. Thank you for your time and efforts."

Any reply? 

Unfortunately no. Strange because he replied to my initial inquiry as well as my follow up email where he gave his reasons for discontinuing the product.

This kind of thing is exactly what I asked the maker of voltagestandard.com about. He didn't answer my question, but I didn't ask it very well either. I wasn't interested in group buy; I was interested in making traveling voltage standards (the Pentaref model). So you would make a set of references, acquire a set of customers who pay some kind of either annual or one-time fee, and the voltage standards are programmed to suit each customer, checked out like library books, used for a few weeks, and then returned. Then they would be reprogrammed for different voltage values, and sent out again.

I actually need a voltage reference (I need specific voltages though, 190.000 mV, 1.90000 V, 19.0000V, 190.000V, and 1000.00V) to calibrate some Keithley 197s which are 220,000 count "5.5 digit" multimeters. I didn't know you were sending around a reference!

I actually really like this idea. It make complete sense. I am willing to buy a travel standard but admittedly it would just sit on a shelf for the vast majority of its life. A standard that is sent around would be peer reviewed, traceable and I would expect well maintained. I think there would have to be some type of payment and deposit system in place obviously. There has to be a way to distribute the enormous cost of calibration across interested individuals and still make it profitable for the standard builders.

[tautech]

Similar has been proposed here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/dmm-voltsohm-calibration-club-anyone-interested/

[setu]

I would buy one too if it was available

[innkeeper]

i'd be in

[xrunner]

Any reply? 

Unfortunately no. Strange because he replied to my initial inquiry as well as my follow up email where he gave his reasons for discontinuing the product.

Well thanks for trying, but is there any reason to have any more people respond to the thread. If you can't get him to make any more, what are we doing here? 

[unimorpheus]

Any reply? 

Unfortunately no. Strange because he replied to my initial inquiry as well as my follow up email where he gave his reasons for discontinuing the product.

Well thanks for trying, but is there any reason to have any more people respond to the thread. If you can't get him to make any more, what are we doing here? 

Agreed.

[guenthert]

Well thanks for trying, but is there any reason to have any more people respond to the thread. If you can't get him to make any more, what are we doing here? 

Showing hands, so that the next guy who considers making a business selling voltage references gets an idea how much interest there might be.

[unimorpheus]

Any reply? 

Unfortunately no. Strange because he replied to my initial inquiry as well as my follow up email where he gave his reasons for discontinuing the product.

Well thanks for trying, but is there any reason to have any more people respond to the thread. If you can't get him to make any more, what are we doing here? 

Agreed.

Hi Anthony,

Sorry for the slow response.  I just went to the EEVBlog forum and read the thread.  User TiN is on the mark- it costs me $800/year to keep my 3458A calibrated.  I make daily measurements (manually) of all of the references that are aging and change the reference chip out if there is excessive temperature coefficient or drift with time- this procedure takes a lot of time and adds to the cost of parts.  If I raised the price to account for my time, nobody would buy the product.  I have enjoyed meeting a lot of interesting DMMCheck and DMMCheck Plus customers over the years but it is time for me to cut my losses and move on.  Thank you for your support.

Best regards,

Doug Malone


I ended up ordering Mr. Malone's 10v 0.003% reference to at least give me a baseline comparison. Nice guy, too bad we couldn't make it happen but the education I received while researching this idea has been enlightening.

[Kuro]

Is there any product on the market that can compare to DMMCheck Plus, and that is still available, and can be shipped to Europe? (Doug doesn't ship to Europe)

[CustomEngineerer]

Looks like Doug changed his mind and decided to do a limited run on the DMMCheckPlus. Those of you who were looking, nows your chance (if you live in US or Canada that is).

http://www.voltagestandard.com/Home_Page.php

[glarsson]

Not to Canada.

Cannot ship to: Australia, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, United Kingdom

Probably not RoHS compliant, but the selection of excluded countries are a bit odd.

[bicycleguy]

Probably should contact him on countries as there are conflicting pages:
http://shop.voltagestandard.com
http://shop.voltagestandard.com/product.sc?productId=5&categoryId=1

[chriswebb]

Thanks for the information! Just ordered one for myself.

[CustomEngineerer]

Probably should contact him on countries as there are conflicting pages:
http://shop.voltagestandard.com
http://shop.voltagestandard.com/product.sc?productId=5&categoryId=1

Also from the FAQ http://www.voltagestandard.com/Faq_Customer_Comments.html

5.  Do you ship to destinations outside of the USA?  We only ship to destinations within the USA and Canada.

I would also recommend contacting to know for sure.

[tautech]

Probably should contact him on countries as there are conflicting pages:
http://shop.voltagestandard.com
http://shop.voltagestandard.com/product.sc?productId=5&categoryId=1

Also from the FAQ http://www.voltagestandard.com/Faq_Customer_Comments.html

5.  Do you ship to destinations outside of the USA?  We only ship to destinations within the USA and Canada.

I would also recommend contacting to know for sure.

And maybe this is where we should remind ourselves of the thread title: Group buy !

Who in the US would be willing to arrange such a thing.....take orders and re-dispatch worldwide for a small fee of course.

[rbm]

If this idea of a group buy was to come to fruition, what would be the expected savings over ordering alone?

[CustomEngineerer]

And maybe this is where we should remind ourselves of the thread title: Group buy !

Who in the US would be willing to arrange such a thing.....take orders and re-dispatch worldwide for a small fee of course.

If this idea of a group buy was to come to fruition, what would be the expected savings over ordering alone?

In this context the idea isn't to get them cheaper, but to be able to get them in countries voltagestandard.com doesn't ship to.

Edit: Really the idea was never an attempt to get the DMMCheckPlus cheaper. By the time this thread had been started back in March 2017, the DMMCheckPlus had already been discontinued by voltagestandard.com and so the hope was if enough people wanted one they may be persuaded to start making and selling them again.

[Luap2]

Almost missed this, ordered one

[mcinque]

Is there any product on the market that can compare to DMMCheck Plus, and that is still available, and can be shipped to Europe?

No, nothing comparable. There are only DC voltage references (no AC, current, frequency or resistance) with less accuracy, more drift and no proper calibration

I'm in for the purchase!

[bicycleguy]

I wonder if VoltageStandard.com would consider selling kits or just bare pcbs to get around the import/export rules for you guys.  You could also age them yourselves to save him the effort.  Then get someone else to cal them or I imagine the silly import/export rules wouldn't apply to calibration so he could do that for you like he does now.

If I was a true TE addict and not in US I'd try it.

edit: added bare pcb

[Svgeesus]

I have a DMMCheck Plus bought December 2013 as a sanity check when my meter was a lowly UT71-C. The Plus model has ACV and also two frequency references. At the time he shipped to France, which at the time is where I was located.

I recently bought a  VREF10-003 (which works very nicely) after recently upgrading to a very nice (for me) Keysight 34465A (with cal+uncertainties) and inquired of Doug Malone whether he was still willing to re-cal my DMMCheck Plus (I'm now in the US). He replied (before the recent announcement of a new run) that he was; he quoted a good price for the service and alerted me that his 3458A was about to go out for cal. I plan to send mine in for re-cal next week. Since my 34465A is in recent calibration (28 Nov 2017) it will be interesting to compare my 6.5 digit readings (just before the re-cal) with his 8.5 digit ones. Also interesting to see the change in values over time from his measurements (Nov 2013 original cal, Feb 2018 re-cal).

On the original cal certificate for the DMMCheck Plus, a burn-in of 681 hours before final calibration was noted.

[Mr. Scram]

It looks like he isn't taking orders until March? I would be interested, depending on the price. It seems a very useful tool. What's the ballpark price for something like this?

[tautech]

It looks like he isn't taking orders until March? I would be interested, depending on the price. It seems a very useful tool. What's the ballpark price for something like this?

http://shop.voltagestandard.com/product.sc?productId=5&categoryId=1

Plus housing if required.

[Svgeesus]

You could also age them yourselves to save him the effort.  Then get someone else to cal them

I imagine that anyone who has available an in-cal 3458A or equivalent for daily monitoring during aging is not too interested in a REF5050-based board and is probably ageing their own LTZ1000 board instead. The value is in the preselection and monitoring before final cal.

[Mr. Scram]

It looks like he isn't taking orders until March? I would be interested, depending on the price. It seems a very useful tool. What's the ballpark price for something like this?

http://shop.voltagestandard.com/product.sc?productId=5&categoryId=1

Plus housing if required.

That seems doable. Yes, I would be interested.

[Ghislain]

Doug has updated his home page, he is compiling a pre-order list and will get back to everybody on the list as soon as new units are available 
Now all we have to do is sit back and wait 

[mos6502]

Any info on whether he will ship to Germany or not?

[Ghislain]

Easiest is to drop Doug an e-mail, I presume that if you are accepted on the pre-order list he will honour the full execution of the pre-order when he is authorized to in due time.

[Candid]

I am sure he will ship to germany as he did in the past.

[CustomEngineerer]

I was able to get my order in before ordering was suspended, and today I received my DMMCheckPlus.  I haven't had time to fully check it, but initial checks seem to indicate everything is working as expected.

Big thanks to Doug Malone for being willing to make a new batch after previously discontinuing. Hopefully its worth his while.

[mcinque]

He didn't even reply me to my two messages.

[Candid]

No reply from Doug? I cannot believe. I had very good experience with him before and after the buy. And I got a repair for only the postage costs and in only one week (germany!) of one of my dmmcheck products I killed.

[Mr. Scram]

So what would be good choices for the frequencies you can choose? I'm thinking that low range and high range might be useful, but I can imagine certain specific frequencies having their uses too.

[Ghislain]

I have been contacted by Doug during the week-end, apparantly he is working his way through the pre-order list. He also mentioned new orders will be taken through the web site starting April 1st.
When going through the ordering process I noticed international shipments are certainly not too much of a problem 


 

[ian.ameline]

I too was contacted by Doug (Beware of Doug)  As mentioned, he is working through his current orders and will be accepting new orders on April 1. We probably got the identical email other than our name at the top. Mine is shipping to Canada via USPS.

[luma]

Today I received a notice that the DMMCheck Plus is available for order, and thinking I must be getting lucky, checked to find the uCurrent Gold is also available and shipping!  It's like Christmas!

[mcinque]

No reply from Doug? I cannot believe. I had very good experience with him before and after the buy

Mee too, but I must tell that I was unable to get any reply. Don't know if it's a mail issue, some years ago he replied me, now I can't reach him 

[Mr. Scram]

Do any of you guys choose to get the dual frequency option and if so, what frequencies did you pick?

[Ghislain]

Do any of you guys choose to get the dual frequency option and if so, what frequencies did you pick?

No dual frequency option for me I am afraid since I really do not need it from this device.

[J Dennis]

I received my DMMCheck Plus yesterday, 3/28, and it's a quite nice, small package.  Includes my unit's 'Measured Values' sheet and instructions.

First impressions are very positive.

Dennis

[theHWcave]

The forum is great! I just joined and was looking for a voltage ref when I saw this topic. I immediately went to voltagstandard and ordered a DMMCheck Plus. I got a confirmation email but no shipping date yet.

[RandallMcRee]

The forum is great! I just joined and was looking for a voltage ref when I saw this topic. I immediately went to voltagstandard and ordered a DMMCheck Plus. I got a confirmation email but no shipping date yet.

It will be  a while.  Mine was burned in for 253 hours. I guess this is around the minimum. Since this is a quality product, the burn-in is mandatory. All references are subject to drift in the first x hours.

Also Doug works in batches, anything else would be insane.

[Svgeesus]

Do any of you guys choose to get the dual frequency option and if so, what frequencies did you pick?

I did, and the frequencies I picked are specific to my interests (analog synthesizers, for music). So I went for 440Hz (standard frequency for concert A) and 7.04kHz (440 * 16, 4 octaves above concert A).
 
The measured values on the calibration cert are 439.968,356Hz and 7.042,592kHz. Which in musical terms is 0.1245 cents flat and 0.637 cents sharp, respectively.

My most recent measurements (Keysight 34465A, Dec 2017) were
F1  439.968 42 Hz, sd 4.1 µHz
F2  7.042 593 kHz, sd 29.1 µHz


Cal date was 29 Nov 2013 and mine is packed up ready to be shipped back for a re-cal.

[Neomys Sapiens]

(huh, forum does not support the micro symbol, had to spell it out)

Are you posting from a teletypewriter? If not, use AltGr+M
result µ

[rsjsouza]

I just have received mine. I haven't opened it yet. It was ordered in Feb 6th.

[Candid]

(huh, forum does not support the micro symbol, had to spell it out)

Are you posting from a teletypewriter? If not, use AltGr+M
result µ

And if you are using a Mac it's alt+m

[Mr. Scram]

I received my DMMCheck Plus today. It was well packaged an came with helpful instructions and the all important measured values. I'll need to sit down and take the time to look at this with care, but a quick check already seemed to reveal my gear isn't horribly off in the ranges most important to me. It's surprisingly satisfying to have some certainty.

Doug has been very pleasant in his communications too.

[rhb]

Mine came a couple of weeks ago.  My 3478A read 5.0000 VDC.  It was a $108 shipped eBay buy and the last cal sticker was 2004. I haven't gotten to testing current and resistance yet.   That will happen this weekend.

I hope to build a better reference eventually, but for actual practical work it's  fantastic product at a very reasonable price.

[MacMeter]

Oh boy, anther thread costing me money. I wasn’t tracking this thread, seen it in the past when it was reported in the past that Doug was no longer making any DMMCHECK pluses, so I figured I missed out and wasn’t all that interested in the cheap Chinese modules with far less features. So right after reading here that a limited run was happening, I immediately went to his site, and saw “out of stock”, dam figured I missed it again. Went back today to write and confirm the run was over, but saw it in stock, placed my order!

I wrote Doug today, heard back quickly, and he said using a 9 volt lithium battery should be no issue. I don’t like to use any leaky alkalines. Thanks to all for the heads up, not often you get a 3rd chance at a good custom product.

[GregDunn]

I know this is a necro-post, but just thought I'd poke my nose in here just in case there's a possibility of another run after Malone opens up again in October...

[Mr. Scram]

I know this is a necro-post, but just thought I'd poke my nose in here just in case there's a possibility of another run after Malone opens up again in October...

Only he can tell you.

[Moonbase]

Keeping the necro-thread alive … I just now found out about this and I certainly would buy one!

Just in case Doug should follow this … 

[kahuna0k]

I would buy one too, and reading about how hard it is to build them, I'll be happy paying more than the $95 it is listed for.

[Maplewood_Ken]

Looks like it is possible to place orders at dmmcheckplus.com.

I received this email this morning:

================
Good Morning,

Thank you for your interest in the DMMCheck Plus and its availability.  The DMMCheck Plus will be available for purchase this week, via a new web address that will go live today: dmmcheckplus.com .  There are multiple options for this product based on your preferences, as well as a full page of additional information detailing the products functionality.  The DMMCheck Plus can be ordered directly from the site, as long as the product is in stock.  Boards ordered this week will ship next week (9/1-9/7).  Please allow one day for optional programming and final calibration.  Products will ship with calibration certificate. 

Jordon Dudley
================

That is as much as I know about this.

[rsjsouza]

Be careful. The domain name is odd and the name of the person is different.

A Whois on the domain finds the full address of the person, which is quite different than the person that originally sent me the unit. 

Nevermind. I saw the note at the top of the http://www.voltagestandard.com redirecting to https://www.dmmcheckplus.com

[electricMN]

I tried ordering one but when I got to the shipping options and made my selection there was no way to move on to the payment phase. 

[BillB]

I tried ordering one but when I got to the shipping options and made my selection there was no way to move on to the payment phase. 

I was able to using paypal, but I had to click the final button twice for the payment to go through.  I received a confirmation number and emailed receipt.   

[11Bravo49417]

Got it to work as well.  Tried last night with Paypal and it stalled at shipping options.  Received an email this morning inviting me to try again and was successful.  Have confirmation email with order number now. 

[Ordinaryman1971]

I've just visited the website. There is a new option for two optional frequencies instead of the standard 100Hz.
I wonder if that would be another switch on the board to pick the frequency, is it going to be another set of stand offs to clip on?
And what do you think the most useful frequencies would be, the choice is in the range between 25Hz and 20kHz.

[Mr. Scram]

I've just visited the website. There is a new option for two optional frequencies instead of the standard 100Hz.
I wonder if that would be another switch on the board to pick the frequency, is it going to be another set of stand offs to clip on?
And what do you think the most useful frequencies would be, the choice is in the range between 25Hz and 20kHz.

The second frequency has always been an option. You switch by switching to DC and back. The frequencies alternate. I think I picked 300 Hz as it can be divided down to all kinds of useful frequencies including 50 Hz and 60 Hz and 20kHz which can also be divided and lives at the opposite end of the scale so the total range is nearly as big as can be.

[notfaded1]

The DMMCheckPlus particular device is now being produced by a new guy with a new website.  I've been on the orignal waiting list for the new ones when they came out this month and yesterday I finally got the email to tell me they were available again.  I just ordered it yesterday and have an invoice number... hopefully it'll be here soon! 
I recently bought a Datel DVC-350a from Calibrators Inc. that's rock solid (http://www.calibratorsinc.com/images/DVC-350Adatasheet.pdf) and I can't wait to compare this to it.  Both my HP3456A and 34401A are within a couple 6th digit of voltages to the Datel.  I love this stuff!  I can't wait till my new DMMCheckPlus get's here.  I ordered it with the case and the two frequency options.

R,

Bill

[notfaded1]

I also seemed to have trouble paying at first... but if you scroll down after it doesn't seem to work and again click the pay by paypal button... it worked!

R,

Bill

[electricMN]

There's no Paypal button to pay with. No button of any kind. I give up. 

[BillB]

There's no Paypal button to pay with. No button of any kind. I give up. 

At the top of the checkout, you aren't seeing this?  Do you have ad blocker or script blocker plugins running in your browser?

[Kean]

Do you have ad blocker or script blocker plugins running in your browser?

I'm not the person you're replying to, but I visited the site ealier from my laptop and I was just getting an error accessing the shop page.  I get the same now on my desktop.

There was an error in fetching the product data. Please check back later and refresh this page

Using Chome instead of Firefox worked.  I do run a script blocking add-on in Firefox, but it wasn't signalling anything was being blocked.

Very tempted to get this new model, but I don't have the budget for one right now.  I have one I bought from Doug in 2012, which is reading 240uV high (well within the 5V +/-0.01% spec), and within 100uV of my notes from 3 years ago when I bought my 34465A (which may have also drifted).  I also have a 3V reference from Doug also from 2012, which reads 280uV high, just inside the 0.01% spec.

Edit: I wouldn't be surprised if they're both pretty close to original spec, and the offset is in the 34465A considering its one year spec is 0.0034%.  Good enough for my purposes, but I should get my 34465A cal'd at some point.

Edit 2: Actually, just compared the 34465A and my 34401A, and they agree to 1 LSD (34401A reads 10uV higher) - and I think the meters are probably more accurate long term so I'll believe them.  All my other meters are 5.5 digit or less, and the two quite new R&S HMC8012 meters also agree.  121GW & BM869S both read high, but still damn close.  I'll check my three old 3478A's later, but I know one has drifted compared to the others.

[Mr. Scram]

The DMMCheckPlus particular device is now being produced by a new guy with a new website.  I've been on the orignal waiting list for the new ones when they came out this month and yesterday I finally got the email to tell me they were available again.  I just ordered it yesterday and have an invoice number... hopefully it'll be here soon! 
I recently bought a Datel DVC-350a from Calibrators Inc. that's rock solid (http://www.calibratorsinc.com/images/DVC-350Adatasheet.pdf) and I can't wait to compare this to it.  Both my HP3456A and 34401A are within a couple 6th digit of voltages to the Datel.  I love this stuff!  I can't wait till my new DMMCheckPlus get's here.  I ordered it with the case and the two frequency options.

R,

Bill

What makes you think it's a "new guy"?

[notfaded1]

Maybe I should have said different not new....  I've been waiting for weeks on the list to get a new one and now he's making just the DMMCheckPlus and has a new website that just went live a couple days ago.  I didn't mean any slight by the word "new."  Different builder... same design.

Regards,

Bill

[Mr. Scram]

Maybe I should have said different not new....  I've been waiting for weeks on the list to get a new one and now he's making just the DMMCheckPlus and has a new website that just went live a couple days ago.  I didn't mean any slight by the word "new."  Different builder... same design.

Regards,

Bill

Do you mean by "different builder" that someone else is making them now?

[notfaded1]

Here's the email I got from them to help you understand:

Hi Bill:
Doug is still going to do his 10V reference but has sold the DMMCheck Plus design along with his work on advancing the circuit and making it even more stable if that’s even possible…
We have the first set of boards inspected and they are being populated and getting ready for burn-in as I type.  We hope to have the website up by next week and start shipping by the end of this month.  The IC that is used becomes more stable after a substantial burn-in period.  Same with some of the other components.  The temperature stability is what we are after and so far so good.  I will definitely reach out again when we are 100 confident in the reference which, if things keep progressing as they have been, will be this month.
Kind Regards,
Russ Keller

I hope that helps... I have 100% confidence in this new arrangement and we may even see a good thing improve... if that's possible.

Best Regards,

Bill

[notfaded1]

I picked 300Hz and 10kHz after reading your post!  I'm excited to use to test my collection of nixie frequency counters... I have a bad habit and over 30 of them now o.O!

Regards,

Bill

[maginnovision]

I'm not surprised Doug sold it off. He did say it was a lot of work to build, burn-in and support these.

[Noy]

Hm i have an old one. Got it in January this year. Whats new now?

[Ordinaryman1971]

I wonder who's supporting calibration of the old version... mine is due in October.

[electricMN]

All I see is this:

[Maplewood_Ken]

Received today, USA midwest.  Shipped from Wake Forest, NC.  Thoroughly padded and shipping box tightly closed.  Probably delayed a couple of days by Dorian. 

Instructions and calibration certificate (measured values) included.  Probably won't get to try it out until the weekend, at least.

[Iwanushka]

Hi,

Any plans for group buy in EU?

[11Bravo49417]

Also received today, US Michigan.  Looks wonderful!   Won't have a chance to play with it as too busy with other matters for a couple of months at least.
 If anybody nearby wants to do a review or testing give me PM...

[BillB]

Got  mine, too.  Too busy to play with it.   

[Gandalf_Sr]

I just ordered one too   I got the basic system, will probably make a 3D printed case design for it and I already have a GPSDO so wasn't interested in the multi frequencies.