Hantek HDG2002B AWG: 5Mhz or 100MHz? Let's see!

[tinhead]

You will find some SA screenshots as follows:
...
With such a design I cannot belive that HANTEK can release more than the HDG2032B model to his resellers !!

oh well, we don't know how the hardware really looks like on HDG2102B. Sure, DAC/FPGA/SoC/PSU are the same,
but the important filter part might be different (i really hope it is different ..., and if not, well we will do something about)

On the other side, look their specs (and this are "typical" values)

Harmonic Distortion = 10MHz-100MHz: <-50dBc
Spurious signal (non-hormonic) = >10MHz <-65dBc+6dB/spectrum phase 

So i'm not expecting wonder on a real HDG2102B. Too bad that you haven't made any measurments on unmodified unit,
something like 20MHz sine before and after (to see if software modification have any influence on signal quality).

[idpromnut]

You will find some SA screenshots as follows:
...
With such a design I cannot belive that HANTEK can release more than the HDG2032B model to his resellers !!

oh well, we don't know how the hardware really looks like on HDG2102B. Sure, DAC/FPGA/SoC/PSU are the same,
but the important filter part might be different (i really hope it is different ..., and if not, well we will do something about)

On the other side, look their specs (and this are "typical" values)

Harmonic Distortion = 10MHz-100MHz: <-50dBc
Spurious signal (non-hormonic) = >10MHz <-65dBc+6dB/spectrum phase 

So i'm not expecting wonder on a real HDG2102B. Too bad that you haven't made any measurments on unmodified unit,
something like 20MHz sine before and after (to see if software modification have any influence on signal quality).

Should be easy enough to do.. just rename the backup of the config file   I can try and get a screen shot or two.

[RFasic]

@ idpromnut:

Yeah I also noticed the glitching with fast sines, I wonder what that is about...

Did you also look at the noise mode? From what I have measured it does not look that random at all...

I discovered the source of the glitches at higher frequencies: the external reference seems to be causing it, regardless of how clean or dirty the reference is. I had been using my Rb few standard, but reran a couple of the 90+ MHz tests with the internal reference and no more spurious glitches! Can someone confirm this behaviour with the external reference?

I intended to do the same next day ... so you will get your answer (I am also using an external 10MHz Rubidium souce) later (more later ..) in the evening.

@ Tinhead:

You will find some SA screenshots as follows:
...
With such a design I cannot belive that HANTEK can release more than the HDG2032B model to his resellers !!

oh well, we don't know how the hardware really looks like on HDG2102B. Sure, DAC/FPGA/SoC/PSU are the same,
but the important filter part might be different (i really hope it is different ..., and if not, well we will do something about)

On the other side, look their specs (and this are "typical" values)

Harmonic Distortion = 10MHz-100MHz: <-50dBc
Spurious signal (non-hormonic) = >10MHz <-65dBc+6dB/spectrum phase 

So i'm not expecting wonder on a real HDG2102B. Too bad that you haven't made any measurments on unmodified unit,
something like 20MHz sine before and after (to see if software modification have any influence on signal quality).

Should be easy enough to do.. just rename the backup of the config file   I can try and get a screen shot or two.

I will go back to initial setting (HDG2022B) tonight and will post the resulting screenshots ..

@ Fremen67 or Tinhead

The inverted positionning of the TN LCD display is very VERY annoying when the HDG is used  on a desk: did you find a way to correct this, as the EEPROM "setting" method  seems not to be used anymore in this device (no I2C.log ....)
I think this could be usefull for many people as it is easy to physically rotate the LCD (the lenght of flat ribbon seems to be sufficient for both configurations).

[idpromnut]

I intended to do the same next day ... so you will get your answer (I am also using an external 10MHz Rubidium souce) later (more later ..) in the evening.

Mine is a DYI FE5680-based standard, so I am not quite convinced of the spectral purity of the output (although when I 'scoped the output signal, it seemed reasonably clean: no spurious signals or anything like that).

[tinhead]

The inverted positionning of the TN LCD display is very VERY annoying when the HDG is used  on a desk: did you find a way to correct this, as the EEPROM "setting" method  seems not to be used anymore in this device (no I2C.log ....)
I think this could be usefull for many people as it is easy to physically rotate the LCD (the lenght of flat ribbon seems to be sufficient for both configurations).

it is actully funny, you can't use lot of todays gears when then in-line with your eyes (or above). Hantek is here very conservative,
all their gears can be perfectly use like that (and i was always happy about, i don't have tons of place on desk, i like all my gear to have above it). Of course for people who have them all on their desk directly it sucks (are there any? i thought only maketing ppl have gears on desk directly, an EE have neverenought space for that). So if you really have need to place it directly on desk, then use that two feets on bottom side and move your gear 60-80cm away from you. Sure, you (maybe) can rotate the physical display to get "view angle for use on desk",  but then you have to resolder i think two resistors on display itself to rotate the displayed information as well (check the datasheet, i think it is still Innolux AT070TN83).

[RFasic]

@ ippromnut:

Same DIY as yours ... but the FE5680 is not so bad (around  -105 dbc PN @ 10kHZ that can be displayed by my best SA (improved YIG)).
I will add some tests with a 10MHz signal reference from an Agilent generator equipped a dual oven TCXO >10^-9.

[idpromnut]

@RFasic: the second reference I tried was the OCXO from my HP 5334A, with similar glitchy results. That reference I am way more confident of. I will perform the same series of checks with the reference out (TCXO) on my HP 8642B.

[RFasic]

The inverted positionning of the TN LCD display is very VERY annoying when the HDG is used  on a desk: did you find a way to correct this, as the EEPROM "setting" method  seems not to be used anymore in this device (no I2C.log ....)
I think this could be usefull for many people as it is easy to physically rotate the LCD (the lenght of flat ribbon seems to be sufficient for both configurations).

it is actully funny, you can't use lot of todays gears when then in-line with your eyes (or above). Hantek is here very conservative,
all their gears can be perfectly use like that (and i was always happy about, i don't have tons of place on desk, i like all my gear to have above it). Of course for people who have them all on their desk directly it sucks (are there any? i thought only maketing ppl have gears on desk directly, an EE have neverenought space for that). So if you really have need to place it directly on desk, then use that two feets on bottom side and move your gear 60-80cm away from you. Sure, you (maybe) can rotate the physical display to get "view angle for use on desk",  but then you have to resolder i think two resistors on display itself to rotate the displayed information as well (check the datasheet, i think it is still Innolux AT070TN83).

Thank you Tinhead, you are right, I only need to switch the correct Vcc or GND signal on pins 39 and 40 in order to choose how to rotate ...
I have enough place on my working areas and often have to move those little equipment from one of them to another, and ... they  are always placed on the working area near my right hand .... one of my oscilloscopes is a RIGOL DS1204B and the TN display is assembled the way i hoped, same thing with a R&S UPL and 2 Advantest SA. So I think that both display configurations are important .... but with the next (or next .. next) generation of equipement I hope they will generalize the IPS or Oled displays (... it a dream !)

[tinhead]

... but with the next (or next .. next) generation of equipement I hope they will generalize the IPS or Oled displays (... it a dream !)

when you compare that Innolux TFT to (C)STN then the difference is already huge. The good thing is, Hantek is running Linux,
so one can really easy insert what so ever display (as long supported by S3C2416). OLED would b for sure great, IPS hmm,
for an AWG for sure good thing but for DSO, maybe bit too slow.

[trevwhite]

Well I think I might have found one that can be shipped out tomorrow for me. But I do not know at this stage if its worth the money. Maybe I am better off looking at better units that meet their specification?

[idpromnut]

Maybe I am better off looking at better units that meet their specification?

I think this unit easily meets its specifications for the factory setup. In terms of bang for buck, it depends on what you need. This is not a professional tool by any stretch (although the EE at my work is thinking of picking one up for our lab). But for a hobbyist, i think it is great value for your dollar.

[fremen67]

Well I think I might have found one that can be shipped out tomorrow for me. But I do not know at this stage if its worth the money. Maybe I am better off looking at better units that meet their specification?

It depends on your needs and how fast you want it to be on its top.
What would you find for this price?

I have no doubts on the future

oh well, we don't know how the hardware really looks like on HDG2102B. Sure, DAC/FPGA/SoC/PSU are the same,
but the important filter part might be different (i really hope it is different ..., and if not, well we will do something about)

[idpromnut]

I seem to have done something very bad... I tried saving the "status" under the utility menu. The save worked, but on the next reboot, it appears the display of the HDG2002 goes black after the splash screen and the hantek are briefly displayed. It can still output a signal, so I don't think it's totally borked, but yeah. So word to the wise, don't save the status of the function generator!

Could someone send me a copy of their generator's files (I guess etc and /home/user and anywhere else I might need to poke around), or even better, if someone knows how to do a factory reset, that would be better.  Thanks!

[fremen67]

I seem to have done something very bad... I tried saving the "status" under the utility menu. The save worked, but on the next reboot, it appears the display of the HDG2002 goes black after the splash screen and the hantek are briefly displayed. It can still output a signal, so I don't think it's totally borked, but yeah. So word to the wise, don't save the status of the function generator!

Could someone send me a copy of their generator's files (I guess etc and /home/user and anywhere else I might need to poke around), or even better, if someone knows how to do a factory reset, that would be better.  Thanks!

Hummm. Naughty boy not doing backups?  Those young guys ...
First try to remove the def.hsf file in /home/user and reboot (with reboot command). It will restore your default factory settings

[idpromnut]

Hummm. Naughty boy not doing backups?  Those young guys ...
First try to remove the def.hsf file in /home/user and reboot (with reboot command). It will restore your default factory settings

That's the annoying part... I hadn't done anything "bad" to the filesystem or anything, I was just playing around with some of the menus (actually doing what they describe in the user manual  >.<).

And no luck, same behavior when I move the def.hsf file and reboot. The error I am getting in the console is something about the display widget destroy != NULL.  Looks like a failed assert or something.

[idpromnut]

Actually, after a bit more looking, fremen67 can you check what is in your /etc/anolis.conf?  Mine is empty, and that seems suspicious.

[fremen67]

Actually, after a bit more looking, fremen67 can you check what is in your /etc/anolis.conf?  Mine is empty, and that seems suspicious.

OK I will do it when back home. Did you list all the lastly modified files? I could send you all of them if needed.
One file you should absolutly backup is the htg.cal in /etc because it has the initial calibration of your hdg and at the moment the calibration procedure is still buggy.
The embedded nanddump utility doens't work well for backing up root file system but it could simply be done with the dd command.
I will post the procedure later on...

[idpromnut]

Actually, after a bit more looking, fremen67 can you check what is in your /etc/anolis.conf?  Mine is empty, and that seems suspicious.

OK I will do it when back home. Did you list all the lastly modified files? I could send you all of them if needed.
One file you should absolutly backup is the htg.cal in /etc because it has the initial calibration of your hdg and at the moment the calibration procedure is still buggy.
The embedded nanddump utility doens't work well for backing up root file system but it could simply be done with the dd command.
I will post the procedure later on...

At this point, there are a few files in /home/user that were modified at the same time as the anolis.conf file. If you could throw me a copy of everything in/etc and /home/user that would be helpful. I have a backup of the htg.cal file already.

[fremen67]

At this point, there are a few files in /home/user that were modified at the same time as the anolis.conf file. If you could throw me a copy of everything in/etc and /home/user that would be helpful. I have a backup of the htg.cal file already.

Here is the original content of /etc and /home. (I just replaced my serial in system.inf with 0000). Just remove the .hex extension and unzip.
I suggest you move your directories somewhere and take those one instead as a test. I hope it will work with just your system.inf and hdg.cal...

[idpromnut]

AH HA!  Success!  But with a twist

So my problem turned out to be not the saving of the status of the HDG2002, but actually doing the following:

- Go to Utility, select System Status
- Toggle the "Startup" option to "Last" (to set the funct gen to restore to the last setup before power-off I assumed!)
- Exit back to the main channels screen
- Power Cycle the generator using the power button on the front panel.

When the HDG2002 reboots, POOF! No more main screen after the Hantek logo briefly flashes on screen. So what happened? It turns out that the problem is actually that the BACKLIGHT is set to level 0 by doing the above procedure. I found this out by logging into the serial console and finding the /dso/app directory. In here, there are a couple of "test" binaries:

Code: [Select]

test_beep
test_bkl
I tried them both but the test_bkl was the interesting one. When I ran it with the following options:

Code: [Select]

./test_bkl on 105
Poof the display popped back on! Of course on reboot it turned back off again. So after temporarily re-enabling the backlight, I went back into Utility -> System Status -> Startup and set it to Default, power cycled and boom, back in business no worries.   

Well I guess there are still a few bugs in the firmware     Please note that you can run into this bug REGARDLESS OF WHETHER YOU CRACK THIS FUNCTION GENERATOR OPEN OR NOT, and it has nothing to do with modifying the HDG2002. Except that if you don't crack it open after you do this, you seemingly have no way to recover.   

Hope this helps someone else!

[Control:Eng]

Hmm...looking at the spectrum...Hantek's design really seems to be imperfect.

This is what the AD9747 is capable of:

http://wiki.analog.com/_detail/resources/fpga/xilinx/interposer/cf_ad9747_ebz_spectrum_1.jpg?id=resources%3Afpga%3Axilinx%3Ainterposer%3Aad9747

Could somebody maybe explain why we get these spurious spectrums?

[fremen67]

Code: [Select]

./test_bkl on 105
Poof the display popped back on! Of course on reboot it turned back off again. So after temporarily re-enabling the backlight, I went back into Utility -> System Status -> Startup and set it to Default, power cycled and boom, back in business no worries.   

Nice that you discovered that it was related to backlight
I also had the same problem but I solved it with the def.hsf file. I should have posted it before but It went out of my mind. I will try again this evening to see exactly how I did.

Code: [Select]

./test_bkl on 105Well I guess there are still a few bugs in the firmware     Please note that you can run into this bug REGARDLESS OF WHETHER YOU CRACK THIS FUNCTION GENERATOR OPEN OR NOT, and it has nothing to do with modifying the HDG2002. Except that if you don't crack it open after you do this, you seemingly have no way to recover.   

I think we should investigate on how the firmware update process is working (like Tinhead did for DSO5000) so that we can have a way of backing up/restoring files... doing things from the front USB jack or SD slot without opening the enclosure.
Of course in that case it would be difficult to restore things easily that way but for this one, we could at least describe the blind "key push "sequence to follow in order to restore settings (I think we can do it without turning the knob, just with simple keys).

[tinhead]

Hmm...looking at the spectrum...Hantek's design really seems to be imperfect.

This is what the AD9747 is capable of:

http://wiki.analog.com/_detail/resources/fpga/xilinx/interposer/cf_ad9747_ebz_spectrum_1.jpg?id=resources%3Afpga%3Axilinx%3Ainterposer%3Aad9747

Could somebody maybe explain why we get these spurious spectrums?

two things: on the AD board the SMA is connected directly (except transformer) to DDS, so the spectrum will be worse than on Hantek. And of course when you check what setting they used on SA "span 115MHz/RBW 20kHz" then no wonder that there is nothing visible. There is as well clock aspect, AD is using 250MHz clock on that picture, comming directly from "external source", and you can bet they used good and clean source. With good jitter"free" clock the noise floor is for sure better (and less spurious, but whatever there is, it is not visible due the SA settings).

Hantek is using (variable?) clock coming from FPGA (LVDS AC coupled via C191/C187, with DC offset R150/R151). Everything out of FPGA have lot of jitter (minimum 100ps from internal logic pk-pk + pin driver jitter). Such "phase modulated" clock is creating all that spurious and phase noise degradations as shown here:



Of course is Hantek using good clock source for FPGA (a bad source would add additional jitter, overloaded external source as well), and some filtering after all, but one will not get better results when clocking with FPGA (they doing this probably to run variable clocks, however if not then one could add clock jitter attenuator from e.g. Silabs to get rid of that jitter. But of course, that extra 20USD or so, one have not to forget that this is not highend AWG). Sure, everything can be done better, and it has been already done, but if one buy gear for nearly price of the compoenents then please don't expect wonder

[idpromnut]

@tinhead: nice SA screen caps, thanks for that!

@fremen67: I will take a full back up (manually) tonight and then start poking around. I think the first order of business would be to find a way of booting off either the SD card or the front USB. Perhaps we'll get lucky and it "just works" 

[tinhead]

@tinhead: nice SA screen caps, thanks for that!

they has been made by RFasic, i only re-posting them

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-hdg2002b-awg-5mhz-or-100mhz-let's-see!/msg447032/#msg447032