[SOLVED-BM867]Hard dilemma: GW121 or Brymen BM867s?

[ov_darkness]

I've done my homework.
I really did.
After owning Mastech multimeter for about 15 years it's about time to raise a bar.

I first thought about getting UT61E because it's cheap (62EUR), but I'm a little bit afraid about it's safety (altough Mastech has next to none protection and I live). Also, not as many functions as bigger guns.

My second contender is BM867. Also inexpensive (152EUR), but it doesn't have all the bells and whistles (and I'm a sucker for that) of more costly brethren. Particularly no temperature measurement.

Sanwa PC7000 (170EUR) is quite nice, but it lacks protection offered by Brymen Brothers, and one of reviewers said that it's an quite old design. It has temp measurement though.

And last, but not least The King - Brymen BM869. It's quite expensive (225EUR) and I'm wondering, if it;s functions compared to Sanwa and 867 are worth extra cost?

EDIT: main uses will be electronics (I'm servicing 3D printers at work, and making some electornics project by myself).

[Fungus]

And last, but not least The King - Brymen BM869. It's quite expensive (225EUR)

It's less than that: https://brymen.eu/shop/bm869s/

and I'm wondering, if it;s functions compared to Sanwa and 867 are worth extra cost?

Yes.

EDIT: main uses will be electronics (I'm servicing 3D printers at work, and making some electornics project by myself).

But you already said you want bells and whistles. 

[Terry01]

Get yourself the Brymen 867s and get a cheap IR thermometer to do temp. I have the 867s and use it lots over other meters because I just really like using it!  !

Hope you end up happy however you go buddy...

[coppice]

Sanwa used to be a great meter maker, but they seem to have lost their way.

[Fsck]

Just get an 869 so you don't have feature envy.

[Mechatrommer]

Sanwa used to be a great meter maker, but they seem to have lost their way.

agree.if i have to make selection between the pc7000, i'll pick good condition used fluke meter..but thats just me.

[ov_darkness]

Thank you all for suggestions!
@Fsck has a point: feature envy is bad
I think I'll go for 869 and just go for cardboard and brick diet for a month

[Fungus]

Thank you all for suggestions!
@Fsck has a point: feature envy is bad

It gives you GAS.

(see glossary)

[bd139]

Got an BM867 here. Absolutely love it.

UT61E works (I owned one) but it's a pile of crap compared the above.

Shop around for Brymen. TME in Poland sell them as well. Not sure if local pricing is better for that. If not try Telonic here in the UK, brymen.eu etc.  I got mine from Telonic and it was way cheaper than other resellers.

[Fungus]

The UT61E is safe enough if all you do is measuring sockets. Anywhere far from the indoor panel should be safe.

"Should be safe"?

Either it's safe or it isn't.

[bd139]

The UT61E is safe enough if all you do is measuring sockets. Anywhere far from the indoor panel should be safe.

"Should be safe"?

Either it's safe or it isn't.

I don't think it's quite as deterministic as that. You've got a relatively low probability of it killing you under normal use on a CAT I circuit IMHO. I've used one extensively on secondary side of mains and on live CAT II circuits before. The provided probes are quite frankly dangerously shit though and if there's a transient, kaboom and the meter itself isn't that great.

Really meter safety is only one accident vector you're going to have. There are plenty of other creative ways to kill yourself even with a genuine CAT IV 1000V rated meter. There's no reason not to cover all safety vectors you can though which is why I binned it and got a Keysight unit ages ago, followed by a Brymen.

[Fungus]

I don't think it's quite as deterministic as that. You've got a relatively low probability of it killing you under normal use on a CAT I circuit IMHO. I've used one extensively on secondary side of mains and on live CAT II circuits before. The provided probes are quite frankly dangerously shit though and if there's a transient, kaboom and the meter itself isn't that great.

You can probably drive without a seatbelt and live, too. That's not the point.

You can have a genuinely safe meter delivered to your house for $45. If you regularly poke at mains electricity then I don't know why you'd try to justify anything less.

A FLuke 101 makes a nice secondary meter, too (although the build quality might make a UT61E look bad).

[bd139]

I covered that on the second part of my post which was neatly omitted...

[coppice]

Either it's safe or it isn't.

No safety system is ever like that. No safety precaution eliminates the possibility of harm. Heck, the bang from a high quality HRC fuse might shock you into stumbling and falling off a ladder. 

I've seen fuse holders blow apart, and leave the fuse intact, presumably because people had taken no care about maintaining good contact quality and ensured most of the resistance was in the contacts, rather than the fuse.

[Specmaster]

Personally, given the selection, I'd go with the 867 (yes I'm biased as I have one) but unless the temperature and the VFD is really important, save your money and get the 867, use the savings at a later date and grab an IR temperature probe to add temp functions to your list of possible measurements.
The Sanwa and Brymen 867 / 869 all use the same IC so the capabilities are very similar to each other here and share the same type of PC connection I think but its only the Brymen that a CAT 4 1000v rating making them the safest of the trio.

[EEVblog]

Just beware the BM869's size, I find it annoyingly big for normal bench use.

[Specmaster]

Just beware the BM869's size, I find it annoyingly big for normal bench use.

Its no bigger than many Fluke meters, I have Fluke 25 and 27 meters and they are almost identical in size so as far as I'm concerned, not an issue, but that extra safety factor of Cat4 is a big bonus.

[ov_darkness]

Just beware the BM869's size, I find it annoyingly big for normal bench use.

@EEVblog if I could get your GW121 in Europe for 265AUD, it'd be no contest
I have rather large frame and palms, so size is not a problem for me

Personally, given the selection, I'd go with the 867 (yes I'm biased as I have one) but unless the temperature and the VFD is really important, save your money and get the 867, use the savings at a later date and grab an IR temperature probe to add temp functions to your list of possible measurements.
The Sanwa and Brymen 867 / 869 all use the same IC so the capabilities are very similar to each other here and share the same type of PC connection I think but its only the Brymen that a CAT 4 1000v rating making them the safest of the trio.

@Specmaster half decent IR tthermometer costs much more than price difference between 867 and 869.
But you're right. I could really use one

[rsjsouza]

I see blueskull's point. Before I had a UT61E I thought it was a pile of turd according to many reviews around. However, I got one recently with the revised PCB and can say it is quite good for the type of work you mentioned. It is also quite compact for its functions.

If you are concerned about safety, Fungus' idea looks quite interesting as well: a Fluke 101 is a very safe meter. Together, both could be had for about the same as a BM867.

Brymen's meters are absolutely fantastic, though. Since you are in Poland you can have them shipped to you from tme.eu quite quickly. They have both the BM867 and a nice smaller model BM257S

[joeqsmith]

I don't know about the safety aspect but the one thing I count on for UNI-T, including the UT61E/D, the stupid little grill starter will kill them every time. 

The other thing I count on is that Brymen, Fluke and HIOKI know how to make a meter survive a direct discharge to the inputs.  Get what you pay for.

Just beware the BM869's size, I find it annoyingly big for normal bench use.

Its no bigger than many Fluke meters, I have Fluke 25 and 27 meters and they are almost identical in size so as far as I'm concerned, not an issue, but that extra safety factor of Cat4 is a big bonus.

True, my Gossen Ultra, UNI-T UT121A, TPI 194II are all about that same size.  It's not a problem for me.  I like the weight and the features of the  BM269s.   I would never want to drag it around in the field with me, but it would be a bit overkill anyway.       

[IanB]

Just beware the BM869's size, I find it annoyingly big for normal bench use.

I rather like the larger display and printed labels on the BM869. I find the text size on the 121GW dial and display a bit small.

[ov_darkness]

FUN FACT:

Brymen.eu is runned by Polish distributor (Biall www.biall.com.pl)
Price difference on BM867s between their two shops is over 27EUR XD
I've reached out to them with a question  where it's coming from.

@Specmaster do you have any recommendation for Ir thermometer with thermocouple socket and capable of measuring at least 500C?
I've found this https://www.tme.eu/en/details/testo830-t2/pirometers/testo/testo-830-t2-0560-8312/ are there any cheaper options?

[Specmaster]

FUN FACT:

Brymen.eu is runned by Polish distributor (Biall www.biall.com.pl)
Price difference on BM867s between their two shops is over 27EUR XD
I've reached out to them with a question  where it's coming from.

@Specmaster do you have any recommendation for Ir thermometer with thermocouple socket and capable of measuring at least 500C?
I've found this https://www.tme.eu/en/details/testo830-t2/pirometers/testo/testo-830-t2-0560-8312/ are there any cheaper options?

What I use is a handheld infrared thermometer purchased from my local Lidl store a couple of years ago for £19.99. They seem to get these offers a couple of times a year and I see that you are in Poland and you have 525 Lidl stores there so bound to be one near you. It has a range of -50C to +380C which most certainly be high enough for electronic work which is what I use it for, it will show which components are overheating quite quickly and easily.

Here is a link to the product details and the manual can be downloaded from the site as well and there are links to similar units as well.

https://weekly-offers.co.uk/offer-powerfix-thermometer-at-lidl/

[ov_darkness]

I've decided to go with BM867s and IR thermomether with thermocouple.
One last question:
Did anyoune used lithium primaries in their DMM's?
I've found that: https://www.ultralifecorporation.com/PrivateDocuments/BR_9V_White_Paper.pdf
for very reasonable price: 7.5EUR

[Specmaster]

OK, I don't think that you'll be sorry with that combination, 867 really is an awesome meter IR with thermocouple input I know nothing about, mine is pure IR and I've been very happy with that.

Lithium battery, I have never considered that I must admit, but mildly curious to know why you feel that is necessary, is it because of having a battery leak? I have never had a 9V battery go leaky on me although I have been told by other members that they have. I have had a quite a few AAA and AA cells go leaky and they can cause an awful amount of damage when that happens but genuinely I have personally experienced any issues with 9V batteries other then them going flat with age.