Heads Up : Cheap Multimeter : Lidl UK (08/02/18)

[001]

they are NOT rated for short-circuit protection or high voltage protection. 

Any ICL7106-based meters  are NOT safe by design. LIDL too

[rsjsouza]

they are NOT rated for short-circuit protection or high voltage protection. 

Any ICL7106-based meters  are NOT safe by design. LIDL too

Sorry, but that is nonsense; the 7106 device has nothing to do with safety.

[Fungus]

Folks! Tell me please
Why You interested in 40 years old design rated $20 now? I have no idea 
It is actually looks like a crap $2 ICL7106-based meter in big red case

a) Some people might not be able to order from China.
b) It's CAT III rated, they might want to measure mains once in a while.
c) It has a 3 year warranty, how many years did you get with your Chinese meter?
d) ... (use imagination here)

[Fungus]

they are NOT rated for short-circuit protection or high voltage protection. 

Any ICL7106-based meters  are NOT safe by design. LIDL too

Maybe you could call TUV and explain your theory.

[Specmaster]

they are NOT rated for short-circuit protection or high voltage protection. 

Any ICL7106-based meters  are NOT safe by design. LIDL too

So that means then that your saying the certification on this meter is a fake then because it is dangerous are you? Perhaps this might persuade you to change your mind or you are more then welcome to take up the matter directly with testing house and the German Standards agency, here is a link to the actual testing certificate for that Lidl meter https://www.certipedia.com/certificates/50366474?locale=en and also our own Fungus has done a you tube review of this meter which can be found here and here

[rsjsouza]

Folks! Tell me please
Why You interested in 40 years old design rated $20 now? I have no idea 
It is actually looks like a crap $2 ICL7106-based meter in big red case

a) Some people might not be able to order from China.
b) It's CAT III rated, they might want to measure mains once in a while.
c) It has a 3 year warranty, how many years did you get with your Chinese meter?
d) ... (use imagination here)

d) its design is empirically proven to keep its accuracy for quite a long term - it is not uncommon to see 20, 30 year-old meters without much deviation
e) schematics and reference designs are all over the internet, which helps with experimentation and repairs
f) you can buy a replacement 7106 (if not a chip on board)

[001]

ICL7106 is not foolproof device
You can fry it with voltage measurings at ohms and mA range, You can discharge battery to zero (no autooff), readings depends from supply voltage etc
TUV and guarantee   is only paper, isn`t it?

[Fungus]

ICL7106 is not foolproof device
You can fry it with voltage measurings at ohms and mA range,

a) That's why they add "input protection" to multimeters.
b) No, you can't fry it on mA range within the CAT rated voltage - current measurement doesn't work that way.

readings depends from supply voltage etc
TUV and guarantee   is only paper, isn`t it?

In my video I connected it to 230V AC on all ranges except amps.

(there didn't seem much point in blowing fuses on the amps ranges, it doesn't prove anything)

It wasn't faked, either, I really did it!

[Specmaster]

ICL7106 is not foolproof device
You can fry it with voltage measurings at ohms and mA range, You can discharge battery to zero (no autooff), readings depends from supply voltage etc
TUV and guarantee   is only paper, isn`t it?

If you watch the videos that Fungus did, he tested 240vac straight on the ohms range and no problems, do you always doubt everything that has been certified by a government body such as GS and TUV then? A birth certificate etc is only a piece of paper isn't it? You have to take some things in life at face value, don't forget that Lidl would be in so much deep shit if they had those meters all printed up with a fake certification, it just doesn't add up, I'm afraid that you're on your own on this, the evidence is just too over whelming that this meter has been subjected to the tests as described and has passed with flying colours. Granted it isn't a Fluke, or Agilent etc but it's NOT trying to pass it self off as one either, it only has the lowest rating applicable which is perfect for the average householder/hobbyist, not suitable for professional use above 300V as it states.

[MosherIV]

ICL7106 is not foolproof device

Neither is a DTM0660.
In fact, any device can be destroyed if you put too many volts into it

TUV and guarantee   is only paper, isn`t it?

The point of TUV and UL is to guarantee the safety of the device because they have performed tests to verify safety. If you do not trust them, I suggest you buy half a dozen dmms and a couple hundred thousand in test equipment and test the dmms for safety yourself.

[001]

A birth certificate etc is only a piece of paper isn't it? You have to take some things in life at face value, don't forget that Lidl would be in so much deep shit if they had those meters all printed up with a fake certification, it just doesn't add up, I'm afraid that you're on your own on this, the evidence is just too over whelming that this meter has been subjected to the tests as described and has passed with flying colours.

In the outlaw countries we piss on sertificate papers. Only Fluke is good enough and few newest china bargains too 

[Specmaster]

Well seeing as you mentioned piss, is this a big piss take? A ladder instance has a maximum load it can take safely, do accept the stated loading of a ladder or do you doubt it and classify as a dangerous ladder because you just cannot accept that is capable taking a stated load, despite a certificate from a test laboratory stating that the ladder has successfully passed the tests for stated loading 

[rsjsouza]

Well, the fact the people in your country have a bad perception of accredited certification agencies does not detract from the safety of an equipment.

I come from an "outlaw" country (I prefer to call peripheric) where certificates used to be worth less than the paper they were printed. However, with the beginning of imports in the 1990s and the advent of internet, people started to get educated and learned something about other brands, certification agencies, tests, etc.

[TuxKey]

after looking around and several multi meter probes test leads i feel like  yah banging my head on a wall..ahhaa
why can't life just be simple good affordable probes and be done with it....

hearing Dave talk about the importance of gold plated probes i thought why not grab a set..it's not like $17 to $30 is going to kill me  even if i was paying that for a $19 meter..if the probes make or brake the meter 
https://youtu.be/uV9mW0rpRxg

there i was looking on the Probe Master page.. And thinking they do look good..
http://probemaster.com/8000-series-standard/

Spend $30 with free shipping and bob's you're uncle (right Dave)...NOT EU is you master so no go for us in the EU
i would have to pay $40 + $14,29 shipping and 21% vat and 11% customs fees.. damm.. living in EU sucks..

Think i'l stick wit the leads that come with the meter..or buy these cheap ones from banggood.
https://www.banggood.com/Ultra-Pointed-Gold-Plated-Copper-10A-Multimeter-Probes-Test-Leads-p-986857.html?rmmds=search&cur_warehouse=CN


btw looked on amazon Germany .. stores here in The Netherlands.. the here they only sell cheap Chinese ones like they where something else..grrr

ahahaha ..

[Fungus]

These are highly recommended:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/171162377470

(and the seller is an EEVBLOG member AFAIK).

[TuxKey]

Thanks these look nice.. 

And cost more then my multi-meter ahahhha Just funny...but i rather spend a bit more and get good probes that will last me a life time..
Also i just started on this forum and learned so much...so would be nice to buy from a member.
looking at other stuff from his store..$2 shipping sounds good.

[TuxKey]

These are highly recommended:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/171162377470

(and the seller is an EEVBLOG member AFAIK).

think i need any of these gold plated attachments ?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/171243956885
https://www.ebay.com/itm/171302315753

btw do the bana plugs serve as a connection for these guys?? (also seem handy to have)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/10cm-Silicone-Test-Leads-with-Sprung-Hooks-and-Female-Banana-Connectors-1-Pair-/201358533333

i know it depends on what i plan to do with it.. for now i'm starting to build diy kits starting to learn about electronics.
and assembling building my own mechanical keyboards.. my new hobby aka midlife crises thing i guess..

[Fungus]

These are highly recommended:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/171162377470

(and the seller is an EEVBLOG member AFAIK).

think i need any of these gold plated attachments ?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/171243956885
https://www.ebay.com/itm/171302315753

btw do the bana plugs serve as a connection for these guys?? (also seem handy to have)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/10cm-Silicone-Test-Leads-with-Sprung-Hooks-and-Female-Banana-Connectors-1-Pair-/201358533333

I think those probes come with the banana adapter. Look at the second photo in the listing.

[Candid]

...Spend $30 with free shipping and bob's you're uncle (right Dave)...NOT EU is you master so no go for us in the EU
i would have to pay $40 + $14,29 shipping and 21% vat and 11% customs fees.. damm.. living in EU sucks..

I found another good source in Europe (Germany) for Brymen and Probemaster:
https://www.welectron.com/Test-Leads


EDIT (old message):
11% customs? In Germany you "only" would have to pay additional 19% VAT on the complete costs (product price + shipping) for all that is less than about 150 EUR total costs (see below).

You may order them from England: https://simonselectronics.co.uk/
1x 8017S Probe Master Fixed point 48" 90 deg shrouded plug £25.00 + Shipping flat £12.00 what currently is round about 43,- EUR

Or get the Brymens from Franky for only 15 EUR through eBay (you need to order the gold plated attachments separately! So it was for me even that they are on one of the pictures but you may ask him before you order). They are really well and will go without any further costs through the customs. I bought several times from Franky.

The Probemasters are my absolute favorite. I bought them directly from Probemaster with several attachments. Including postage and customs a somewhat expensive deal for German customers because you will get over the magic 26 EUR (no additional fees) including costs for shipping.

"See below" section ;-):
If total costs (products + shipping) are more than 150 EUR it depends on the products you bought if there is to pay "only" local VAT or additional customs fee. If the total costs are less than 150 EUR you only pay VAT.

In the Netherlands it should be similiar or equal to Germany. Check the TARIC database for this: http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds2/taric/taric_consultation.jsp?Lang=en

For example for the 121GW I had to pay additional 19% (only local VAT) in Germany because for product code 90303200 there is no additional customs to pay than VAT. And so it should be for the leads you are looking for.

[OE2WHP]

If you want a cheap meter, why not go for this at £3.10?
http://cpc.farnell.com/duratool/d03046/multimeter-digital/dp/IN07220
I've got one. Good enough for the price.

These ones are listetd multiple times under different brand names on the RAPEX database for safety reasons: https://ec.europa.eu/consumers/consumers_safety/safety_products/rapex/alerts/?event=viewProduct&reference=A12/1277/13

[Specmaster]

If you want a cheap meter, why not go for this at £3.10?
http://cpc.farnell.com/duratool/d03046/multimeter-digital/dp/IN07220
I've got one. Good enough for the price.

These ones are listetd multiple times under different brand names on the RAPEX database for safety reasons: https://ec.europa.eu/consumers/consumers_safety/safety_products/rapex/alerts/?event=viewProduct&reference=A12/1277/13

This meter has been discussed before and dismissed, it is not suitable really for anything other than very occasional use in an emergency situation on very low energy circuits, ie measuring resistance.

It also, unlike the meter from Lidl has not passed any safety tests, why? Because I guess the fact it appears on Rapex database that has some series design flaws and has already been proven to be dangerous and for all we know, may have been submitted for testing like the Lidl meter and failed the most basic test of all, that of insulation.

[Fungus]

I guess the fact it appears on Rapex database that has some series design flaws and has already been proven to be dangerous and for all we know, may have been submitted for testing like the Lidl meter

Nope. Testing costs a lot of money. Submitting those meters for testing would be like flushing money down the toilet.

[Specmaster]

I guess the fact it appears on Rapex database that has some series design flaws and has already been proven to be dangerous and for all we know, may have been submitted for testing like the Lidl meter

Nope. Testing costs a lot of money. Submitting those meters for testing would be like flushing money down the toilet.

That was what I thought but wasn't sure.

[OE2WHP]

The fact that it appears in the RAPEX DB tells that it does not meet the legal minimum requirements regarding safety standards for this kind of products.

[Specmaster]

The fact that it appears in the RAPEX DB tells that it does not meet the legal minimum requirements regarding safety standards for this kind of products.

Why the hell doesn't someone do something about removing this type of dangerous product of the market?