Poll

Which meter should be ran to celebrate 2000 subscribers?

Dave's new 121GW
58 (55.8%)
Gossen Metrawatt (you pick)
14 (13.5%)
HIOKI DT4282
6 (5.8%)
Anything but UNI-T (you pick)
1 (1%)
Anything made by UNI-T (you pick)
7 (6.7%)
I think the Fluke 87V is really a good meter and want to see if a third one would be better
10 (9.6%)
This testing is pointless! Please STOP damaging these meters!
8 (7.7%)

Total Members Voted: 103

Author Topic: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.  (Read 340815 times)

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Online rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2350 on: January 13, 2018, 12:33:25 PM »
Just be warned about the "discontinued" status at TEquipment: not long ago I saw one product still in production that was marked as "discontinued" on their website. I would always check with the manufacturer first.

Regarding the Brymen/UEI conspiracy theory, let me throw another one: perhaps they are "using you" to increase their perceived value and be bought by a larger TE brand?  :-DD

If I can't find a distributor, as far as I am concerned they may as well be discontinued.  If TE dropped them, I would have to ask myself why.  It could have been anything from lack of sales to poor quality or maybe it really is discontinued.   :-//
That is the thing; at the time the product was being sold by other official distributors and TE decided to drop that particular product line or brand. I can't recall if it was the former or the latter, but I kinda recall something about Siglent. Sorry, I don't recall anything further than that.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 01:21:57 PM by rsjsouza »
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Online joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2351 on: January 13, 2018, 01:33:27 PM »
If a product is too difficult to buy, I'm not going to go out of my way to hunt one down. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2352 on: January 13, 2018, 01:51:25 PM »
Just be warned about the "discontinued" status at TEquipment: not long ago I saw one product still in production that was marked as "discontinued" on their website. I would always check with the manufacturer first.

Regarding the Brymen/UEI conspiracy theory, let me throw another one: perhaps they are "using you" to increase their perceived value and be bought by a larger TE brand?  :-DD

If I can't find a distributor, as far as I am concerned they may as well be discontinued.  If TE dropped them, I would have to ask myself why.  It could have been anything from lack of sales to poor quality or maybe it really is discontinued.   :-//
That is the thing; at the time the product was being sold by other official distributors and TE decided to drop that particular product line or brand. I can't recall if it was the former or the latter, but I kinda recall something about Siglent. Sorry, I don't recall anything further than that.
One should not discount the other possibility.....that a sales distributorship can be revoked and given to another company. This does add confusion to the marketplace for a while especially if the 'no longer' distributor continues to have a web listing for a brand and range of products and lists them as 'discontinued' which is just BS.
TE in particular up until recently listed the bulk of the Siglent product range and each one had 'discontinued' tacked to the listing but to their credit they've updated that some with no products listed and just discontinued if you hit the Siglent products link.
https://www.tequipment.net/siglent/

Siglent selling rights were given to Saelig.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist & NZ Siglent Distributor

Gone fishing........
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2353 on: January 13, 2018, 03:20:06 PM »
I doubt the 121GW will be UEI's choice for an automotive meter. UEI already makes an automotive meter that has better features for the Automotive job. They have a whole line of meter just for automotive. UEI already beats Brymen hands down in specific automotive testing and diagnostics tools and lab scopes.

The 121GW is now effectively the only electronics meter UEI make.
The DM393 seems to be the only other one they make, but I think that may also be close to being discontinued.

Quote
I recall Dave even mentioning that UEI already had a Bluetooth stack and protocol designed that they offered to use with the 121GW, so this tells me they already had a Bluetooth meter.

I don't recall ever saying that.

Quote
I don’t know why Dave decided to make his own apps when UEI already had all this to start with? UEI already has an andriod and applemios app. The app looks basic but can do a 100ms refresh rate, record, graph, export to CSV, PNG, or JPG, continuous readings.
http://www.ueitest.com/products/dl429

We wrote our own app because the UEi one they wrote us was almost a joke. It was very buggy and the UI was straight out of the 1990's.
We thought it would be better to write our own and make it completely open source, and it would be easier than trying to get them to fix the one they had. We already had enough back and forth communications grief with the meter design.
Unfortunately what David2 thought would be fairly easy task of creating an true multi-platform app (from the same code) turned into a multi month nightmare.

Quote
Maybe this is why Dave went with UEI this time because he wanted Bluetooth as a feature?

No, nothing to do with it.
I went with UEi because they said they could do a fully custom meter and were keen.
I recall Brymen not being very receptive of the idea. Maybe it would be different now that they know who I am and how many meter I sell for them.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2354 on: January 13, 2018, 03:24:47 PM »
Joe correct me if I'm wrong, but something says Bryman's motive is from concern that UEI is soon likely to take a bite out of their sales. I mean what are the odds that UEI may be gearing up to push a lot of 121GW or similar types into the market place this year?

The odds are precisely zero.
UEi are not allowed to use the same 121GW case to compete in the same multimeter market as the 121GW, it's in the contract.
They are however allowed (and wanted to) use re-use the 121GW case for another product(s). What that is I don't know.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2355 on: January 13, 2018, 03:27:53 PM »
Who knows under which name they're sold under ... Fine/Finest? Klein?

Finest is now owned by UEi / Kane Test.
The former CEO of Finest is actually the one who was in charge of the 121GW design.

Klein is a related party to the two, they contract UEi to design some of their stuff.
That's actually how the whole 121GW came about - I did that Klein Tools meter test in the mud and the designer contacted me.
I mention about maybe doing a custom meter and he introduced me to UEi / Kane Test.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 03:33:44 PM by EEVblog »
 
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Offline gnavigator1007

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2356 on: January 13, 2018, 03:51:06 PM »
What about the feature set? Will they be able to incorporate these same functions in another meter lacking the EEVBlog name?
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2357 on: January 13, 2018, 09:34:03 PM »
What about the feature set? Will they be able to incorporate these same functions in another meter lacking the EEVBlog name?

Contractually, probably nothing really stopping them doing that.
But that would be what is known in the industry as a dick move  :D
 

Online joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2358 on: January 14, 2018, 06:58:15 AM »
After surviving 50,000 function switch rotations and going for a swim in ice water,  the BM869s gets set for a round of transient tests.   Will it repeat and survive the new generator like it's predecessor or will it fail like an old 87V?   Stay tuned while we finally find out just how much can Brymen's top of the line meter handle.

Because of the time required to run all these tests, my plan will be to release this on a separate video. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Online joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2359 on: January 14, 2018, 07:12:21 AM »
I doubt the 121GW will be UEI's choice for an automotive meter. UEI already makes an automotive meter that has better features for the Automotive job. They have a whole line of meter just for automotive. UEI already beats Brymen hands down in specific automotive testing and diagnostics tools and lab scopes.

The 121GW is now effectively the only electronics meter UEI make.
The DM393 seems to be the only other one they make, but I think that may also be close to being discontinued.

Crap on a cracker.  I was only kidding when I said the 121GW would save them. 

How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2360 on: January 14, 2018, 07:13:58 AM »
Is this going to be after wiping down those contacts?
At 100 rotations per ~300 working days a year, what tech wouldn't have used some IPA within 16 plus years of use?
 

Online joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2361 on: January 14, 2018, 07:38:32 AM »
Is this going to be after wiping down those contacts?
At 100 rotations per ~300 working days a year, what tech wouldn't have used some IPA within 16 plus years of use?
That's nothing.  Think about those two people who have posted how they put 10s of thousands of cycles on their meters every year!   In the one case we can be fairly confident that the contacts were never cleaned as they would not take the meter apart to show them in their debunk video.    :-DD 

In all seriousness, if you would have watched the video where I life cycled this meter, towards the very end I mentioned that I took some ProClean to it so we could get a better view of the damage.  I even showed the swabs I used.   Of course, then the meter did some scuba diving and the water was fairly conductive.  So everything had to be flushed out again. 

We know between what levels the first one failed.  That's a pretty wide window if you look at the data.   Somewhere between 5.8 and 13KV.  Which is the whole reason I plan to repeat it.   



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Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2362 on: January 14, 2018, 08:49:11 AM »
Come to think of it, yes I did see it. So much happened over new-years, guess I've had too many damned "senior moments" to recall..   :)
 

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2363 on: January 14, 2018, 11:47:03 AM »
Come to think of it, yes I did see it. So much happened over new-years, guess I've had too many damned "senior moments" to recall..   :)
No problem.  Looks like another major milestone! 
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Offline Scottjd

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2364 on: January 14, 2018, 07:31:19 PM »
I checked out the meters they offer.  The ADM5201 would have been a good one to try.  Both it and the ADM4201 are listed as discontinued at TE.   Their ADM3201 is getting a bit too much like that ESUN meter I looked at. 

The ADL7103 is also listed as discontinued at TE. Starting to wonder if they make anything.  Maybe the hope is the EEVBLOG branding will save them?  :-DD   They may just not be popular in the USA, like Brymen.
Just be warned about the "discontinued" status at TEquipment: not long ago I saw one product still in production that was marked as "discontinued" on their website. I would always check with the manufacturer first.

Regarding the Brymen/UEI conspiracy theory, let me throw another one: perhaps they are "using you" to increase their perceived value and be bought by a larger TE brand?  :-DD
I forgot to mark this thread as notify. I’m ised to their boards if you reply to something you automatically get notified. Well, and I miss one email in spam and the notify stops also on this forum.
As for tEquiptment when they decide to stop carrying a product line they mark the, as discontinued. Not the cimlnay making it, but the relationship with TEquiptment and the company is discontinued.
They had a problem, more a disagreement with another company last year that still sells and makes scopes, but they dropped the products off the site, marked as discontinued. Even didn’t finish selling the stock in the mains site. Instead they sold the left over stock on eBay.

I don’t know much about TE personally, but heard a lot twice a week from a close friend. I know they sell Brymen and my close friend had an issue with his meter. It was eventually agreed to be sent in, first they couldn’t find the issue, but he said it was intermittent. Then they lost his meter for a month, then they said they found it and sent him a different one, scratch on the screen, new serial number and different issues with that meter. Finally I told him to reach out to Brymen and he did, Brymen solved his issues and replaced the meter. After listinging to his horror story for three months I decided I would never buy fro TE. The might be a good price for most, but if something goes wrong with a defect they don’t want to hear about it or help. He had to fight with them just to get it sent in for service, and he had to pay the shipping to TE and return shipping back to him.
No thanks, I’ll buy local for better support that honors the warranty for a few more dollars, not worth the little savings. I think after the shipping costs he could have bought local also, and he was without a meter for a few months.
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Offline Scottjd

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2365 on: January 14, 2018, 07:40:04 PM »
Just be warned about the "discontinued" status at TEquipment: not long ago I saw one product still in production that was marked as "discontinued" on their website. I would always check with the manufacturer first.

Regarding the Brymen/UEI conspiracy theory, let me throw another one: perhaps they are "using you" to increase their perceived value and be bought by a larger TE brand?  :-DD

If I can't find a distributor, as far as I am concerned they may as well be discontinued.  If TE dropped them, I would have to ask myself why.  It could have been anything from lack of sales to poor quality or maybe it really is discontinued.   :-//
That is the thing; at the time the product was being sold by other official distributors and TE decided to drop that particular product line or brand. I can't recall if it was the former or the latter, but I kinda recall something about Siglent. Sorry, I don't recall anything further than that.
Yes, that’s the other company I couldn’t remember. It was Siglent I think the sold off remaining stock on eBay and removed from the main site. I don’t know the details, I’m giessing personal conflict disagreement or contractual agreement. Who knows.
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2366 on: January 14, 2018, 07:43:39 PM »
Crap on a cracker.  I was only kidding when I said the 121GW would save them.

Who said they need "saving"?
Perhaps they just didn't really want to be in the electronics meter business any more and wanted to focus on other markets?
 

Offline Scottjd

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2367 on: January 14, 2018, 09:56:45 PM »
I recall Dave even mentioning that UEI already had a Bluetooth stack and protocol designed that they offered to use with the 121GW, so this tells me they already had a Bluetooth meter.

I don't recall ever saying that.

Hi Dave, sorry for the late reply. I didn’t set notify on this thread.
I may be wrong, but I believe it was mentioned in the Kickstarter live stream video talking about Bluetooth, but this video is now gone from the Kickstarter campaign, so I could only reference your channels YouTube video that seems to have been edited with a 20 minute difference in overall video time.
I think it was around YouTube’s video mark of 48:08 to 48:50 seconds (or kickstart time stamp 57:07 to 57:59). But their is also 9 seconds of the Kickstarter video missing that was cutout at the end of this topic according to the Kickstarter video time stamp.

Its hard to say for sure since the YouTube video has been edited, and after that 9 seconds from the Kickstarter time stamp is gone at the end of that topic. So I can’t say for sure if it was in these 9 seconds or not, but I remember the whole topic part was about  Bluetooth. The Kickstarter time stamp goes from 57:49 to 57:58.

So I know my memory isn’t the best these days, but I was watching the live Kickstarter originally. Other parts about that live stream stayed with me more then the Bluetooth stuff.  I remember watching the live stream and the comment on your YouTube video at 49:46 about not knowing if a hardware issue will make it obsolete. It made it sound like no one beta tested outside your lab except maybe Joe with his hardware robust testing.
I thought to my self “maybe I should cancel the order now” since I pledged before you started streaming live. I think you said it’s hard to debug your own stuff, and that’s so true.
Just curious, but was it a UEI non-disclosure agreement that stopped you from sending meters out to a few others for functionality and firmware testing? I know you can have beta testers also under NDA’s, I’ve been under two since I started my channel 2 years ago helping find software bugs in products before they are released. After all, I think this might be the first meter UEI built using the ST microprocessor?

But I still took the risk, now I hope UEI doesn’t take long to update the firmware with fixes for some of the issues discovered. If they do a firmware update, will a beta versions be available publicaly for some to test before the final firmware update is release to all?

And I almost forgot, did you pitch them my idea of dumping the EEPROM calibration data to the SD card before any calibration changes are made as a backup, giving the user a restore point if they mess up the calibration? I know you said it was a good idea, but not sure if they will add that to the firmware on the next release or if they have the space for additional code. Or even how often they plan on doing firmware bug fix releases. But this was more of a feature idea that could help cut back on support emails.
Thanks,
Scott
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Offline nidlaX

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2368 on: January 14, 2018, 10:07:49 PM »
Just be warned about the "discontinued" status at TEquipment: not long ago I saw one product still in production that was marked as "discontinued" on their website. I would always check with the manufacturer first.

Regarding the Brymen/UEI conspiracy theory, let me throw another one: perhaps they are "using you" to increase their perceived value and be bought by a larger TE brand?  :-DD
If TE dropped them, I would have to ask myself why.  It could have been anything from lack of sales to poor quality or maybe it really is discontinued.   :-//
Silly TE never bothers to distinguish between products that are actually discontinued or those that are dropped for arbitrary reasons such as disagreements over marketing, licensing, etc.
 

Online rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2369 on: January 15, 2018, 12:37:41 AM »
If a product is too difficult to buy, I'm not going to go out of my way to hunt one down.
Of course; each to its own. I only found it disingenuous that TE used a term widely adopted in the industry when a product actually ceased to be manufactured. As Dave would say, it was a "dick move".

(...)
One should not discount the other possibility.....that a sales distributorship can be revoked and given to another company.
(...)
Siglent selling rights were given to Saelig.
Thanks for refreshing my memory.
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Online joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2370 on: January 15, 2018, 01:28:51 AM »
Crap on a cracker.  I was only kidding when I said the 121GW would save them.

Who said they need "saving"?
Perhaps they just didn't really want to be in the electronics meter business any more and wanted to focus on other markets?
It would be strange to find out a company would drop their entire bread and butter product line because they don't want to be in the business only to decided to design and manufacture a custom meter for you.  I can just imagine the story behind it.   While I previously said they may need saving as a joke, you have adding a new twist.
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Online joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2371 on: January 15, 2018, 01:33:44 AM »
Just be warned about the "discontinued" status at TEquipment: not long ago I saw one product still in production that was marked as "discontinued" on their website. I would always check with the manufacturer first.

Regarding the Brymen/UEI conspiracy theory, let me throw another one: perhaps they are "using you" to increase their perceived value and be bought by a larger TE brand?  :-DD
If TE dropped them, I would have to ask myself why.  It could have been anything from lack of sales to poor quality or maybe it really is discontinued.   :-//
Silly TE never bothers to distinguish between products that are actually discontinued or those that are dropped for arbitrary reasons such as disagreements over marketing, licensing, etc.

Of course, if Dave is right, it sounds like they really are discontinued regardless of TE or any other distributor.   It does explain why I was unable to easily locate one.
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Offline dcac

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2372 on: January 15, 2018, 01:35:17 AM »
I went with UEi because they said they could do a fully custom meter and were keen.

This is really good to know as I presume 121GW then was built very much to your (EEVblog) specifications and not to UEi's.

Sorry if you already made comments/videos about this - but that might have been privileged to the Supporters launch which I do not have access to.

 

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2373 on: January 15, 2018, 01:40:55 AM »
Crap on a cracker.  I was only kidding when I said the 121GW would save them.

Who said they need "saving"?
Perhaps they just didn't really want to be in the electronics meter business any more and wanted to focus on other markets?
It would be strange to find out a company would drop their entire bread and butter product line because they don't want to be in the business only to decided to design and manufacture a custom meter for you.  I can just imagine the story behind it.   While I previously said they may need saving as a joke, you have adding a new twist.
You are right; it would have been strange but not unheard of.
Actually, looking at their page in the US website, it shows only the model 393 as their active "Digital Multimeter" - all others are discontinued. If one looks only from this angle, it looks like they are more interested to be an ODM or are looking for a comeback to the "electronics DMM segment".

We can only wonder...
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Online joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2374 on: January 15, 2018, 02:41:13 AM »
You are right; it would have been strange but not unheard of.
Actually, looking at their page in the US website, it shows only the model 393 as their active "Digital Multimeter" - all others are discontinued. If one looks only from this angle, it looks like they are more interested to be an ODM or are looking for a comeback to the "electronics DMM segment".

We can only wonder...
Maybe it's just one person who is leveraging their previous contacts?  :-DD  Maybe they will contract with Brymen to produce the UEI meter..  :-DD 

Speaking of Brymen, the third meter is getting some time out in isolation, or insulation.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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