Poll

Are you interested in seeing more handheld meters tested?

This testing is pointless! Please STOP damaging these meters!
3 (6.7%)
 Yes, I would like to more meters tested.
42 (93.3%)

Total Members Voted: 45

Author Topic: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.  (Read 493551 times)

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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3000 on: November 29, 2018, 02:25:57 pm »
That's getting too specific.  You don't want to spoil the fun do you?   :-DD   
How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Online malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3001 on: November 29, 2018, 10:29:41 pm »
Hummm japanese meters... OK. i got it. :P  I saw some videos about on John ward about the voltage pen on the context of proofing no live connection as dubious. Photonic induction would pop them as in the video where he obliterates the screw pole tester and test a good isolated screw driver with a lot of voltage i believe 50Kv was the break point.

I don't see any non-contact voltage pen on the spreadsheet...

About the question about testing this voltage probe would be applying a transient between the probe point / tip and the casing or battery compartiment GND which should be high impedance  towards to the tip.

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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3002 on: November 29, 2018, 11:38:41 pm »
There isn't any exposed metal on the tip or the battery compartment.   Are you wanting to know if the plastic is a good enough insulator?   There are a LOT of reviews for them and some decent documents.   

I'm not an electrician and have never used one, nor have I ever had the need.  I am also not setup to do any sort of electrical testing.  Another member asked once about testing surge protectors and small USB chargers.   I think there is still a fair bit of confusion about what is required to run some of the actual mains tests and how they compare with what I show.   I think if I ran any sort of tests on them, people would once again somehow equate it to safety of view it as some form of validation of the products certifications. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Online malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3003 on: November 30, 2018, 12:00:51 am »
Thanks for the clarification. The battery compartiment is acessible for the user . I just received one. It's not about insulation but to know how a CAT rating is aplied  / tested to these devices if you or someone have any knowledge in this matter and the diversity of CAT ratings.  They are become more used on electricians here as well in home use. 


If persons equates things they can also read the FAQ which is well documented :P
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3004 on: November 30, 2018, 12:36:09 am »
Yes, the battery compartment is certainly accessible to the user, just like with any handheld meter.   Having the battery area exposed while using a device on the line may win you a Darwin award.   

I would imagine they are common here as well in the electrical world.  They would be much safer than jamming metal probes in things.  John Ward had made a video titled "Proving Dead - Mains Electricity".    May be worth watching.   Not being an electrician, I will leave the training videos to much more qualified people. 

Sadly, having documents available does not mean that people will read them. It's the same for the long videos.  I try (admit, not very good at it) to condense a lot of material into these long videos.  On average, a person will watch maybe 10% of it.   That's not a problem for me but I had one person argue with me for several posts about a video.  When they were unable to skim the 40-60 mins and find a specific part they became upset.   I have a low tolerance and may have flushed them.    :-DD
 
Two of the most common questions are: Have you ran ____? and Would you recommend ____?   No escaping those two.   :-DD
How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Online malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3005 on: November 30, 2018, 01:40:33 am »
Too bad not seeing the hole video and going for discussion without all the required data. The notepad  would do a good job on taking notes.
The first question may be become more popular to have you run these meter before or these product as i did with the NCV Pen's  . About recomendation yes a lot of people will ask recomendations due to the test made and clarification, but again it is described on the FAQ about recomendation. I remember "you saw what i end up buying"  on a meter , i believe on the uni-t 139c part II video.. not a recomendation but definitly a good choice for a meter..

I watched that video of John Ward , very good, and i quite liked the Fluke T110 Voltage tester, but it is a different product (maybe is most the proper one). About battery that is  correct for all multimeters, volt testers , more a suggestion / idea of how performing  CAT testing in DYI between GND and NCV probe, but with an NCV product like that how can CAT rating can be done? Maybe they have a proper test JIG for that kind of devices. With multimeter you use the banana plug , or adapters to positive and negative and...
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3006 on: November 30, 2018, 05:11:40 am »
Maybe they have their own standard.  You say you bought one.  Do they refer to any IEC standards on the packaging or manual?  This would be a good place to start if you want to learn more about how they are tested. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Online malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3007 on: November 30, 2018, 07:19:21 am »
Well no manual supplied , no packaging. in the pen says to read the manual.... yeah that what i get.... the cheapo way, but i believe that is somewere the aneng model .:



The one i've bought is this.:

« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 07:24:42 am by malagas_on_fire »
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Offline Vtile

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3008 on: November 30, 2018, 07:26:52 am »
I have one (4€) which shows that my wall mirror does have mains potential in it as does my work desk.  :-DD  :palm:
 

Offline glarsson

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3009 on: November 30, 2018, 08:08:18 am »
I have one (4€) which shows that my wall mirror does have mains potential in it as does my work desk.  :-DD  :palm:
Free energy!
 

Online malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3010 on: November 30, 2018, 08:14:08 am »
Well this one doesn't do that and doesn't work well on my sockets . I have to use a UK to EU(Type G to F ??? blob:https://www.dropbox.com/1b062708-409e-4ccc-b9c3-485785168d62 )  adapter to work on the plugs  :-DD It doesn't trip with DC voltages... Now its time to perform a test on a Isolated transformer , 220 VAC 6VA .
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Online malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3011 on: November 30, 2018, 08:27:26 am »
Well this one doesn't do that and doesn't work well on my sockets . I have to use a UK to EU(Type G to F ??? blob:https://www.dropbox.com/1b062708-409e-4ccc-b9c3-485785168d62 )  adapter to work on the plugs  :-DD It doesn't trip with DC voltages... Now its time to perform a test on a Isolated transformer , 220 VAC 6VA .

It trips on one of the conductors on the isolated side and on the isolated side there is a capacitice dropper that feeds an opamp and also provides the AC signal to it and that signal goes to optocoupler, into a 555 :P On  the 555 side doesn't beep but on the rest of the circuit it beeps :P. The 555 is also isolated with SMPS...

« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 08:33:18 am by malagas_on_fire »
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Online rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3012 on: November 30, 2018, 08:29:43 am »
malagas, I am almost sure that CAT II in this case is probably arbitrary to restrict the usage scenario to low voltage environments.


I have a Fluke LVD2 and it says straight CAT IV 600V


Although it has several usage warnings.


I would imagine they are common here as well in the electrical world.  They would be much safer than jamming metal probes in things.  John Ward had made a video titled "Proving Dead - Mains Electricity".    May be worth watching.   Not being an electrician, I will leave the training videos to much more qualified people. 
I watched this video when it was out and John got a lot of flak due to his dissing of screwdriver testers. I agree with the criticisms; the contactless testers can be quite unreliable (if not more) than the screwdrivers. I have encountered zillions of scenarios where false negatives were given by the contactless.
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Online malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3013 on: November 30, 2018, 08:40:37 am »
Thanks for the enlightment.  I'm using this at the sockets, power cords from appliances and a project development..

I have heard about false positives which for proving live shut off can be inacurate, but has the safety aspect of the non contact. Again i liked the fluke t110 and John Ward did a video about the recalls of this device, when he probes the live with the main probe without any contact.  :

https://youtu.be/F_Hqp5gSYrU?t=470

I'll see if i can get some information about the tests in safety regarding to this devices
« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 08:52:26 am by malagas_on_fire »
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Online rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3014 on: November 30, 2018, 09:09:42 am »
Thanks for the enlightment.  I'm using this at the sockets, power cords from appliances and a project development..
For this usage the contactless should be fine. Just beware if you are trying to probe through very thick or shielded connections - the contactless may not catch the voltage.

I have heard about false positives which for proving live shut off can be inacurate, but has the safety aspect of the non contact.
Since you mentioned, all my contactless gadgets (the LVD2, the Keysight U1282A, the Surpeer AV4) flicker/beep when I move them over or towards a metal surface - a disturbance in the magnetic field probably causes an induced current on its sensor.
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Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Online malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3015 on: November 30, 2018, 09:25:11 am »
i belived i've posted that in a comment above and yes it doesn't work on the F type sockets here. I have to use the G type ( UK) adapter to do a proper test. But thanks to remember.

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hear-kitty-kitty-kitty-nope-not-that-kind-of-cat/msg2001089/#msg2001089

The other pen testers recommends previous probation before testing and yes NCV relies on change on magnetic field.. not 100% accurate indeed.
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3016 on: November 30, 2018, 10:19:47 am »
This looks like a decent forum to join if you are interested in electrical work and safety.  Reading through some of the threads, looks like many are professionals.   Then again, this thread has pictures of cats.  Hard to beat that.

https://brainfiller.com/arcflashforum/index.php

First hit on Google: https://images.homedepot-static.com/catalog/pdfImages/70/70de1fda-51a3-4ca1-bc53-53b45618926a.pdf
Looks like they are held to the same set of standards.   I have no idea how they actually conduct the tests.

Here is a good read:
https://brainfiller.com/arcflashforum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2203

« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 10:27:26 am by joeqsmith »
How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline IanB

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3017 on: November 30, 2018, 10:40:33 am »
I've had no problems using non-contact volt alert sticks when doing home electrical work. I touch the detector to live conductors and it lights up and beeps. I isolate the circuit and the same conductors no longer beep, thus verifying that I have opened the right breaker.

False alerts don't bother me. For example my iPhone detects positive when it is plugged in and charging. But this is not a relevant use case for the voltage detector so I see no reason to worry about it.
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 

Online malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3018 on: November 30, 2018, 11:12:04 am »
Didn know they called wiggies... and the impact on the semiconductors... PLC's from that forum and i subjected the project to that pen  :palm:

And exploding wiggies. ??? yeah that makes me question more the CAT ratings :P or photoninduction work ..
« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 11:16:01 am by malagas_on_fire »
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3019 on: November 30, 2018, 11:17:46 am »
I thought a wiggy was the old clacker with a solenoid in it. 

**********

Yep.  Amazed what you can find with a modern search engine and a couple of  words.

https://www.quora.com/How-does-a-Wiggy-Tester-differ-from-a-multimeter
« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 11:21:31 am by joeqsmith »
How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Online malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3020 on: November 30, 2018, 11:35:23 am »
If you search for images or catalogues ohh man... it goes to home depot.. and finally we got some wiggies:

http://dicimo.com/blog/remodeling-your-kitchen-should-you-get-a-dishwasher-pretty-tips-ideas/

This looks like the one that was on the head.... Or maybe this one:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Klein-69115-Solenoid-Voltage-Tester/dp/B000KII9SM

[More Editing...]

At least the product above says wiggy :P
« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 11:47:59 am by malagas_on_fire »
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Offline Towger

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3021 on: December 01, 2018, 07:23:06 am »
It is easy to destroy a Fluke Voltalert, you just use the batteries which came with it.  They will eventually leak without warning (but still work) ending in a dead Fluke.

Phontonic is still around, but pulled his last couple of videos.

 
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Online malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3022 on: December 01, 2018, 07:57:15 am »
Well the battery leak also applies to other aparatus or drop it from higher place :or water divingP Very impressed with the video of king and taylor...  :-DD , looks like a salesman :P

Let's see if there is any information about CAT testing on this NCV's Pens...

By the way no manual in pdf for my specific pen from the seller, but the one from the klein tools serves well.
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Online malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3023 on: December 08, 2018, 09:03:50 am »
Hi

Is this multimeter also under your test Surpeer AV4?

"Vbe 048: 20000 contagens por $13?"

20000 counts for $13 ? It's not going to take much longer in the video  :-DD

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Online rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3024 on: December 08, 2018, 09:10:53 am »
joeqsmith would have a field day with this meter; starting at about 33:30 I put the non-volt ranges through a ring generator (90VAC, 20Hz, but the load probably took it down to about 40VAC) and the meter goes completely haywire.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 


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