Poll

Are you interested in seeing more handheld meters tested?

This testing is pointless! Please STOP damaging these meters!
3 (6.5%)
 Yes, I would like to more meters tested.
43 (93.5%)

Total Members Voted: 46

Author Topic: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.  (Read 494373 times)

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Offline stj

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3150 on: February 19, 2019, 08:14:24 am »
rolled on with a stamp, maybe it's more reliable than ink-jets.
 

Online rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3151 on: February 19, 2019, 08:30:15 am »
At home I will check the Fluke ones I got many years ago (11A and 440/1000). I wonder if their printing is equally uneven.
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Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3152 on: February 19, 2019, 08:57:36 am »
And here are the fuses for the UT 139A , purchased on a store, still packed ... not much difference from the 400mA on the markings


Edit: Ooppss time delay fused... crap...
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 09:00:53 am by malagas_on_fire »
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Offline stj

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3153 on: February 19, 2019, 01:54:26 pm »
At home I will check the Fluke ones I got many years ago (11A and 440/1000). I wonder if their printing is equally uneven.

dont Fluke use LittleFuse? i think LittleFuse use printed labels stuck to the fuse.
 

Offline HKJ

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3154 on: February 19, 2019, 06:25:51 pm »
dont Fluke use LittleFuse? i think LittleFuse use printed labels stuck to the fuse.

On the two I have reviewed it is printed labels on the fuse:
289:

17B:


Both from Bussmann

 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3155 on: February 19, 2019, 10:06:26 pm »
At home I will check the Fluke ones I got many years ago (11A and 440/1000). I wonder if their printing is equally uneven.

dont Fluke use LittleFuse? i think LittleFuse use printed labels stuck to the fuse.
Looking at photos of the new ones I have looked at, the larger style fuse appears to be Mexican made Bussman's with a printed label and woven tube.  Some of the very old Flukes I've looked at had USA made Cooper Bussman Limitron's in them.  These also have a printed label and woven tube.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Online rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3156 on: February 19, 2019, 10:46:18 pm »
At home I will check the Fluke ones I got many years ago (11A and 440/1000). I wonder if their printing is equally uneven.

dont Fluke use LittleFuse? i think LittleFuse use printed labels stuck to the fuse.
Looking at photos of the new ones I have looked at, the larger style fuse appears to be Mexican made Bussman's with a printed label and woven tube.  Some of the very old Flukes I've looked at had USA made Cooper Bussman Limitron's in them.  These also have a printed label and woven tube.
Yes, that is the 44/100 I have here (the 11A is gone)
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 10:48:04 pm by rsjsouza »
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Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3157 on: February 20, 2019, 12:02:19 pm »
One thing I never understood is how they get away with putting a fuse only rated for 10KA in a CAT III and up meter?   I don't know of many fast blow fuses besides these from SIBA that are rated to 30KA.   

For me personally, it's not a big deal as the HIOKI meter I use in this environment does not use fuses. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline stj

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3158 on: February 20, 2019, 12:28:49 pm »
so you have the one with the external current clamp?
i do like that feature.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3159 on: February 20, 2019, 12:56:10 pm »
The one I use is like that, yes but clamps.  I've shown a picture of it here somewhere.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Online IanB

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3160 on: February 20, 2019, 01:03:17 pm »
One thing I never understood is how they get away with putting a fuse only rated for 10KA in a CAT III and up meter?   I don't know of many fast blow fuses besides these from SIBA that are rated to 30KA. 

That would be a robustness test which would be interesting to see. Basically, what happens if you take a meter on the 10 A current range and place the probes across the bus bars in the service panel of a typical house before the circuit breakers? (Academically of course, not suggesting to do it, unless someone has already put it up on YouTube...). Also, curious what would happen if this blew the supply company's service fuse? What would they charge to come out and fix it? And would they ask how it got blown? So many questions. Also, how long would the poles have to be to keep the operator at a safe distance from the meter?
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3161 on: February 20, 2019, 01:30:42 pm »
Photonicinduction had made some pretty good videos on the high break current fuses using that huge cap he has.  It keeps the test off the lines and it's much harder to break the DC.     

All the CAT III rated meters I have looked at should be safe, right across the bus bars of a home, right??   Maybe have the head of marketing and a top manager from each company hold the meters while the test is performed with no PPE.   :-DD   
How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3162 on: February 21, 2019, 02:00:10 am »
I was going to say that there's a video of a guy at fluke connecting a meter to 660V and twisting the selector dial back and forth, but AFAICT it's a meter with no current ranges:




 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3163 on: February 21, 2019, 04:47:16 am »
I was going to say that there's a video of a guy at fluke connecting a meter to 660V and twisting the selector dial back and forth, but AFAICT it's a meter with no current ranges:

 :-DD :-DD

I watched that AEV (AVE?) video where he looks at the non-contact Fluke fork and rants about how bad it is for an hour while trying to use a current monitor with it.  Lots of drama and just stupid.  Then I see him post about a cheap meter and compares it with a Fluke.  No big deal but he is talking about how safe the Fluke is, all the while with some fuse that he pulled from the local hardware store stuck in it.  If you are going to promote safety, seems like you would at least use a fuse rated for the AC/DC voltages and proper break currents....  |O 

I make mistakes in pretty much every video I put out but IMO these go beyond a simple mistake. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Online bitseeker

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3164 on: February 21, 2019, 06:06:50 am »
Yes, AvE (Arduino vs. Evil).
Life is better under the TEA. ♪♩♫ Under the TEA. ♩♫
 

Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3165 on: February 21, 2019, 09:42:03 am »
I was going to say that there's a video of a guy at fluke connecting a meter to 660V and twisting the selector dial back and forth, but AFAICT it's a meter with no current ranges:

 :-DD :-DD

I watched that AEV (AVE?) video where he looks at the non-contact Fluke fork and rants about how bad it is for an hour while trying to use a current monitor with it.  Lots of drama and just stupid.  Then I see him post about a cheap meter and compares it with a Fluke.  No big deal but he is talking about how safe the Fluke is, all the while with some fuse that he pulled from the local hardware store stuck in it.  If you are going to promote safety, seems like you would at least use a fuse rated for the AC/DC voltages and proper break currents....  |O 

I make mistakes in pretty much every video I put out but IMO these go beyond a simple mistake.

Well this is not to contrast with the given facts but there is a difference between a safe meter and safe "human" procedures. if one fails you are compromising already the safety and in that case the "human" fails to grant the security of the meter and its own in further time.

To be honest i did a big mistake on purchased some fuses on a store in a rush but didn't pay attention to the label "T" of the SIBA fuses  which means time and multimeter requires F or FF :( Now they only serve for protection on a AC / DC project because karma is telling that they if placed on the meter it may blow it or the human ...


http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hear-kitty-kitty-kitty-nope-not-that-kind-of-cat/msg2210136/#msg2210136
« Last Edit: February 21, 2019, 09:54:52 am by malagas_on_fire »
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3166 on: February 23, 2019, 12:17:53 am »
The difference is you realized and understood you bought the wrong fuse.   

I made a video showing a small model dyno I constructed and used to help design a much larger system to evaluate a friends race car motors.   I used motor out of a child's toy to demonstrate it.  Apparently the people who play with these feel they are not toys and that I should know better than to call them such.   They felt I should have some clue about their hobby where I really have no interest.  Point being, we all have our areas that we will dive into.  After watching a couple of the other guys videos, I have the feeling he is just out of his element when he talks about electrical/electronics.

I was hoping to finish up my testing this weekend for the new meter but ran into a minor setback.  Parts are on order and should make it in next week.
How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline HoracioDos

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3167 on: February 23, 2019, 03:33:44 am »
Also, curious what would happen if this blew the supply company's service fuse? What would they charge to come out and fix it? And would they ask how it got blown?
It's pretty common here. You can buy a 63A fuse and install it by yourself if you dare. Fuse box doesn't have any precinct. Just a plastic lever inside.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3168 on: February 23, 2019, 04:06:16 am »
I was hoping to finish up my testing this weekend for the new meter but ran into a minor setback.  Parts are on order and should make it in next week.

It died much too early?
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3169 on: February 23, 2019, 05:28:13 am »
I was hoping to finish up my testing this weekend for the new meter but ran into a minor setback.  Parts are on order and should make it in next week.

It died much too early?

Two years of testing has taught me that the performance is not always proportional to the hype.   

To date, I have documented 59 meters.  This does not include a few like the Fluke 189.    In the first set of tests, the AMPROBE AM510 was damaged at 5.8KV which is basically what I call my cutoff point.   Make it above that level, you have a decent meter IMO.  We have 15 that meet that criteria or 25%.    If we include the Fluke 189 and assue that one 87V that I had repaired and reseted to be a flyer, then we have 17 out of 60 or 28.3%.   Of course, I have been running what I consider a better class of meter lately which biases the data.   

Of these, the brands that stand out are and Fluke and Brymen.  While the Gossen and HIOKI both did very well, I only looked at one product from these companies.  I have said that I use a HIOKI product for work and personally, that carries some clout after what I have put it through (transient wise).   We are not talking about these little piss ant transients I apply to benchmark these meters.   


Statistically speaking, I would say the meter I am looking at now ......   (you don't want me to spoil it for you, do you? lol)    Maybe we will have a new brand join the Flukes, Brymen's, HIOKI's and Gossens of the world.  It's big shoes to fill and requires you know how to design....  Maybe.... 
How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3170 on: February 23, 2019, 05:33:03 am »
you don't want me to spoil it for you, do you?

Nope.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3171 on: February 25, 2019, 10:51:36 pm »
Several people have asked me to look at Yokogawa.   In this video, I have a look at their top of the line TY720. 

How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3172 on: February 25, 2019, 11:37:43 pm »
At least we agree on the correct choice of calculator.  :)

Edit: Real SIBA fuses? The printing on them looked nice in the video, maybe some closeup images.

(or ware those the fuses you posted the other day?)

« Last Edit: February 26, 2019, 02:55:07 am by Fungus »
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3173 on: February 26, 2019, 11:37:18 am »
At least we agree on the correct choice of calculator.  :)

Edit: Real SIBA fuses? The printing on them looked nice in the video, maybe some closeup images.

(or ware those the fuses you posted the other day?)

I like this old HP calculator.  Anything more complex, I use the PC.   

I saved the fuse in case someone wanted more information about it.   I have no reason to suspect any of the large parts have been counterfeit.   If someone did want to make a knockoff, I would think they would directly crimp the end caps to the body like other cheap fuses we have looked at.   

In the comments, one person had posted about also seeing a fuse be intermittent.   Perhaps it's more common than I thought. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3174 on: February 27, 2019, 11:26:35 am »
Hey seems that the DMM have some similar cousins,.. Kyoritsu KEW 1062 :

https://www.kew-ltd.co.jp/en/products/detail/00976/

Copy cat?
If one can make knowledge flow than it will go from negative to positve , for real
 


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