Poll

Which meter should be ran to celebrate 2000 subscribers?

Dave's new 121GW
58 (55.8%)
Gossen Metrawatt (you pick)
14 (13.5%)
HIOKI DT4282
6 (5.8%)
Anything but UNI-T (you pick)
1 (1%)
Anything made by UNI-T (you pick)
7 (6.7%)
I think the Fluke 87V is really a good meter and want to see if a third one would be better
10 (9.6%)
This testing is pointless! Please STOP damaging these meters!
8 (7.7%)

Total Members Voted: 103

Author Topic: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.  (Read 340870 times)

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Offline Lightages

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The Fluke might not have been one of the five tested.
I am NOT a distributor for Brymen.
 

Offline dom0

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The Fluke might not have been one of the five tested.



:)
,
 

Online Fungus

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There'll be a massive storm if the Fluke fails.

 :popcorn:

 

Online joeqsmith

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I have been testing meters all day.   For the lower than CAT I tests, six out of the ten passed. 

I have been running the 2KV 14ohm 2/10 on the six and so far everything is good.  I may just move to the 2 ohm, 2KV then to the 2 ohm 4K.   Try and thin the heard a little.   I plan to run the DM-301 on this test.     If anything lives through this, it will be time to make another transient generator that packs a bigger punch. 

I did manage to edit the video for my attenuator.   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj_YndfA4Qs&feature=youtu.be
    I'll demo this thing once the energy levels get up a little higher. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Online joeqsmith

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The generator is back up and putting out some nice pulses.    Time to unload the camera and get caught up.   

Starting off the CAT I tests, the Cen-Tech 98025 from Harbor Freight... 
How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline dom0

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLfhQn9LwyA&feature=youtu.be

YouTube says this video may contain music and I can't watch it(*).

(*) Private entity 'GEMA' owns 99.99 % of music rights in DE but has a clinch with Google and doesn't license the rights to them.
,
 

Online joeqsmith

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Yep, the radio was on in the background and it picked up a few seconds of music as a copyright issue.    :--
I'll be more careful in the future.

Here's the Gardner Bender GDT-311
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8SMr_OVBho&feature=youtu.be
How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline saturation

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Thanks for putting these together.  I think this thread is the first were anyone has shown DMM's subject to approximations of IEC surge waveforms.  A question is at just that amount of energy, do they die gracefully or survive?  Survive would be a plus, money wise.

Are any of the test meters safety rated by external NRTL labs?   The B&K that failed?

In Dave's early videos, the energies are far above their CAT ratings, but its most useful because it shows how the meters respond in a severe failure.

 

« Last Edit: June 20, 2015, 05:52:32 AM by saturation »
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Online joeqsmith

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Thanks for putting these together.  I think this thread is the first were anyone has shown DMM's subject to approximations of IEC surge waveforms.

No problem.   I am just as much interested myself in seeing how they stackup.   

A question is at just that amount of energy, do they die gracefully or survive?  Survive would be a plus, money wise.

Are any of the test meters safety rated by external NRTL labs?   The B&K that failed?

The old BK 2706A has no markings on it.


DM-301 is UL listed   
AMPROBE AM-510, CE CSA (Canadian and USA)
BK 3703C, CE
Gardner Bender GDT-311 shows it as Intertek Listed, UL 61010-1, CAN/CSA-C22.2
Klein MM500 is UL listed
FLuke 101, I can't read Chinese but there is no obvious mark on the box
EXTECH MN16A, ETL, CE
UNI-T UT90A,  I can't read Chinese but there is no obvious mark on the box


In Dave's early videos, the energies are far above their CAT ratings, but its most useful because it shows how the meters respond in a severe failure.

I am hitting them with far less energy than the IEC standards call for.    When I tested my old Fluke, that was the most violent failure so far.    But we are just getting started.....  :-DD   

Again the real energy would come from the mains and I am not using anything like this in my testing.    So even if a meter were to pass all of my tests,  it should be obvious that this does not
mean it would pass the real IEC standards.   
   
How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Online joeqsmith

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Halvmand's  AMPROBE AM-510
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hcv6ADmf4Q8&feature=youtu.be

This meter was later fully tested.  Gets the big  :-+

How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Online joeqsmith

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How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Online joeqsmith

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How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Online joeqsmith

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How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Online IanB

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I am hitting them with far less energy than the IEC standards call for.    When I tested my old Fluke, that was the most violent failure so far.    But we are just getting started.....  :-DD   

Again the real energy would come from the mains and I am not using anything like this in my testing.    So even if a meter were to pass all of my tests,  it should be obvious that this does not
mean it would pass the real IEC standards.   


Correct me if I'm wrong, but meters are expendable and people are not. So believe the IEC tests are intended to ensure that any damage stays inside the meter and does not cause injury to a person holding it. For a meter itself to survive unharmed seems like a very strong requirement.
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 

Online joeqsmith

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but meters are expendable and people are not. So believe the IEC tests are intended to ensure that any damage stays inside the meter and does not cause injury to a person holding it. For a meter itself to survive unharmed seems like a very strong requirement.

I would suggest anyone interested in the subject to start by reading the IEC standards.   I read parts of one during one of the early videos.  There was also a fairly lengthy discussion on this forum a few years back.   If you see a problem with what I am doing, feel free to comment. 

I am involved in testing to the IEC standards from time to time and will say that surge is one of my favorite tests to run.   


Here's the EXTECH MN16A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhJmjSCcfzQ&feature=youtu.be


How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
The following users thanked this post: jordanp123

Offline Meter Junkie

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I have been a long time lurker, and reader, of these forums.  I have not found the need to post until this thread.

I actually have done some IEC 61010 surge testing on meters, and I think you have done a great job building your own tester. I also like seeing how many of these low cost meters survive these surges. However, to meet the CAT ratings in 61010, they do not HAVE TO pass these surges.

My understanding of IEC 61010 is that the meter must not become a hazard when they take this surge. That means not flames or explosions when you hit the meter with the surge. Or, no broken cases or flying parts. But, the meter does not have to function after the surge to get the rating.  So, a meter that arcs over a trace or dial pad, but does not blow apart, would be considered a pass.

It is nice to know that some of these low end meters still function after your surges. But, they are not required to.
 

Offline ivan747

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Halvmand's  AMPROBE AM-510
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hcv6ADmf4Q8&feature=youtu.be

This meter was later fully tested.  Gets the big  :-+

Nice to hear.
-The owner of an AM550 (or was it 560?)
Nothing like the smell of rosin core solder in the morning.
"Could you not use some of that crowdfunded $1.5 million to hire a graphic designer who understands perspective?" -Delta
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Online joeqsmith

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I have been a long time lurker, and reader, of these forums.  I have not found the need to post until this thread.

I actually have done some IEC 61010 surge testing on meters, and I think you have done a great job building your own tester. I also like seeing how many of these low cost meters survive these surges. However, to meet the CAT ratings in 61010, they do not HAVE TO pass these surges.

My understanding of IEC 61010 is that the meter must not become a hazard when they take this surge. That means not flames or explosions when you hit the meter with the surge. Or, no broken cases or flying parts. But, the meter does not have to function after the surge to get the rating.  So, a meter that arcs over a trace or dial pad, but does not blow apart, would be considered a pass.

It is nice to know that some of these low end meters still function after your surges. But, they are not required to.

Glad you felt inspired to post the first time.   I have never tested a multimeter for surge and while I have read the standards, I may have missed more than one or two things....

I am very interested in understand how people in the know interpret these standards.  So, let's start with what part are you referring to?   I have all the latest docs, so no problem to follow along. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline Lightages

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How can we find a copy of  the IEC 61010-1 3rd edition?
I am NOT a distributor for Brymen.
 

Offline SeanB

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Quick check and this pops up.

https://www.isa.org/pdfs/microsites121/s-820201/

Quote
All text of IEC 61010-1:2001 is included. National Deviations are shown by strikeout through text
deleted and underline under text added. Tables, or portions of tables, that are to be deleted are
shown as shaded; figures to be deleted are marked with the overlay "X." There are eleven
annexes in this standard. Annexes G, H, DVA, DVB, and DVC are informative and are not
considered part of this Standard. The remaining Annexes are normative and are considered part
of this standard.

Have fun reading this 156 page doc, though it is not the latest revision, but should be close. If you want the full version it will cost you 340 Swiss Francs ($370 US currently) for either the english/french or the Spanish versions.


 

Offline amyk

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How can we find a copy of  the IEC 61010-1 3rd edition?
With Google.

You can thank the Chinese for that... ;)
 

Online joeqsmith

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The Klein Tools MM500

How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline Meter Junkie

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I have all the documents at work, so I would not be able to post that section until Monday.  I can't post the whole document, since that is not allowed.

In 61010-1 3rd Edition, the over voltage and surge tests have been removed. They are now covered in 61010-2-033 for DMM's and 61010-2-032 for clamp meters.  Basically, a large surge event like 6kV or 8kV is a lightning type event, and would rarely happen. This is why the meter does not have to survive, but does still need to protect the user. The standard even states that you do not need any transient protection devices in the unit. However, "IF" you choose to install these protection devices, then they must be able to withstand 5 pulses in each polarity without being damaged. But, they are not required to be there, if the meter can take the surge without becoming a hazard.

A requirement that got tougher to meet in this latest standard is over voltage on any dial position. Past standards allowed you to state what level of protection you had designed in. For example, if you had a DMM that measured to 600V, you could say the the resistance input is only protected to 250V, and this was sufficient to pass the standard. Now, it states that the meter can not become a hazard if you have the full rated voltage on any switch position, and any jack combination. Again, the meter does not have to survive this, just not become a hazard. You can find a bunch of videos where the meter catches fire with 600V applied to the resistance input. That fails the IEC specs now. But, if it had failed gracefully, it would have passed.  Of course, the better designed units can survive that over voltage, and still function.
 

Offline Meter Junkie

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The Klein Tools MM500


In your video, you said you believed that Klein unit could survive higher than a 10 foot drop.  A quick google search returned this.



Dave also took that meter on his mud run, and it survived that.
 

Online joeqsmith

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And last but not least, the Fluke 101

How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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