Handheld meter robustness testing

[Fungus]

In your world maybe, not in mine. 

Don't you have any curiosity about the physical limits of this meter?

No, should I ?

You're the one posting in this multimeter testing  thread, you tell me... 

[Fungus]

Don't link me your meter on a rope video.

Says the guy who climbs on the roof of his house to throw meters off it. 

[tautech]

Don't link me your meter on a rope video.

Says the guy who climbs on the roof of his house to throw meters off it. 

Didn't see any throwing.....just careful release (liberation) into the atmosphere.

That in itself is also valid information to add to the choice of a DMM to buy...........those that can be clipped back together and continue to be used. 

[PA4TIM]

I'm interested in Joe's tests because it is informative and he has a sound knowledge.  Besides that it is related to my work.

But I think there is a misunderstanding about the meaning of physical limits. I do not care what a meter does if you trow it of the roof, I do care about transients etc because I measure a lot in SMPS's and PAT testers. I just finished a Valhalla calibrator that goes up to 1000V and now there is a G&M secutest on the bench  (and a second one is waiting) They make 500V.

About safety in those secutests: I have seen 2 of them with vaporized inner traces !! and all protection devises still good.Pictures of the repair of that damage: http://schneiderelectronicsrepair.nl/?p=481

[joeqsmith]

Don't link me your meter on a rope video.

Says the guy who climbs on the roof of his house to throw meters off it. 

Didn't see any throwing.....just careful release (liberation) into the atmosphere.

That in itself is also valid information to add to the choice of a DMM to buy...........those that can be clipped back together and continue to be used. 

Since 5KY's UT61E was dropped from the roof, I used it to show:

How much current the meter could handle if you short out the fuse
What happens when you jumper out a fuse with wire
Used it for target practice with my jumped fuse rocket
Test the amount of current seen by the controller IC during an ESD event and how to protect for it
Used the shunt to see how much current it could carry and help design a new shunt
Used it to mock up a low burden voltage circuit

Too much work to make a list...

[joeqsmith]

Don't link me your meter on a rope video.

Says the guy who climbs on the roof of his house to throw meters off it. 

They were all heading to the recycle bin.   Of course there were dremel repairs, some target practice with the bow, the neon sign transformer and going ice fishing with the UT90A as well.  You can't leave those out.   Your soap on a rope was a perfectly good meter.  Mine were all dead except for the UT90A which is beyond dead, it's a zombie meter!   

Now that you have the part number, you should order up some of those relays and show us a thing or two about mechanical stress testing.

[Fungus]

They were all heading to the recycle bin.  Your soap on a rope was a perfectly good meter.

Yours were all "perfectly good" when they arrived at your house. Damages suffered in-between weren't accidental.

[tautech]

They were all heading to the recycle bin.  Your soap on a rope was a perfectly good meter.

Yours were all perfectly good when they arrived at your house and damages suffered in-between weren't accidental.

All ?
That's a matter of opinion.

[Fungus]

That's a matter of opinion.

So is joe's assertion that my DT830 was a "perfectly good meter" before I tied a string to it and towed it behind a canoe.

[joeqsmith]

They were all heading to the recycle bin.  Your soap on a rope was a perfectly good meter.

Yours were all "perfectly good" when they arrived at your house. Damages suffered in-between weren't accidental.

Nothing gets past you!   

[joeqsmith]

That's a matter of opinion.

So is joe's assertion that my DT830 was a "perfectly good meter" before I tied a string to it and towed it behind a canoe.

Based on your in depth functional test, yes.  I was thinking about this part of your video for your relay testing:

https://youtu.be/DWBSBJ16zWg?t=175

You could mount 100pcs to a PCB, set them to one state, then attach your rope and drag the whole thing down the stares.  Measure how many relays changed states once you get the to bottom.    The do the drop test you show and test them again.  Maybe do a checkerboard pattern on the board, 50% of the relays set in the opposite state of the others so you can see what effects that has.   

Some one had asked me about doing a similar test with pots.  Maybe you could mount some to your test board as well. Measure their before and after resistance.   

Again the GMC meter I have that you are interested in uses a Panasonic DS2E-SL2-DC5V.   

[Fungus]

That's a matter of opinion.

So is joe's assertion that my DT830 was a "perfectly good meter" before I tied a string to it and towed it behind a canoe.

Based on your in depth functional test, yes.

By that definition it's still a perfectly good meter!

All I managed to break was the battery and the case. The meter is in a drawer and still powers on and measures.

I'm more interested in a test that would leave your meter looking perfect on the outside but with the relay changed inside. eg. If it's on the stand and topples over onto a hard screwdriver handle.

Again: The point of slapping it around a bit is just to get a feel of what it takes to move the relay inside the meter. It was never meant to be a rigorous or accurate measurement, just a starting point for (possibly) further tests.

[joeqsmith]

That's a matter of opinion.

So is joe's assertion that my DT830 was a "perfectly good meter" before I tied a string to it and towed it behind a canoe.

Based on your in depth functional test, yes.

By that definition it's still a perfectly good meter!

All I managed to break was the battery and the case. The meter is in a drawer and still powers on and measures.

I'm more interested in a test that would leave your meter looking perfect on the outside but with the relay changed inside. eg. If it's on the stand and topples over onto a hard screwdriver handle.

Again: The point of slapping it around a bit is just to get a feel of what it takes to move the relay inside the meter. It was never meant to be a rigorous or accurate measurement, just a starting point for (possibly) further tests.

Yes, based on your level of testing it was still a perfectly good meter.

I understand your interest and reasons for wanting to see some sort of mechanical tests ran.   I have even gone so far as to provide you with a part number for the relay used so you can run what ever tests you like.   You just need to take that first step and procure some. 

[stj]

just wanted to say,
dropping a meter off the roof or down some stairs is perfectly valid,
we dont all work from a desk!!

a have had meters go down stairs, drop about a meter onto concrete - several times, had to use them in the rain,  and a few other misshaps too.
droptest should always be done with probes attached btw,
because it often lands on them and can stress the sockets or pcb if your unlucky.

[Wytnucls]

One safety standard for electrical equipment (IEC 61010) specifies that a product must survive a one meter drop at both its highest and lowest specified operating temperatures. (quote from a Fluke document)

[tautech]

One safety standard for electrical equipment (IEC 61010) specifies that a product must survive a one meter drop at both its highest and lowest specified operating temperatures. (quote from a Fluke document)

Interesting.........I was always under the impression the drop test was for 2 meters, I must have had that wrong. 

[Wytnucls]

Another one:
To measure the drop protection of Klein Tools digital meters and electrical testers, a series of tests are performed in conditions far exceeding the UL/IEC standard. UL/IEC requires a drop of three feet onto a 50 mm thick hardwood board supported by rigid steel or concrete.  By contrast, Klein Tools drop tests from 3 to 9.8 ft. onto a rigid steel surface. The MM500, for example, passed Klein's drop test of over 20 drops from 9.8 ft. without damage to the meter.

[joeqsmith]

Part 6 is up

[joeqsmith]

just wanted to say,
dropping a meter off the roof or down some stairs is perfectly valid,
we dont all work from a desk!!

a have had meters go down stairs, drop about a meter onto concrete - several times, had to use them in the rain,  and a few other misshaps too.
droptest should always be done with probes attached btw,
because it often lands on them and can stress the sockets or pcb if your unlucky.

I don't think anyone would suggest that mechanical testing is not important.  It's just not something that interests me. 

[joeqsmith]

One safety standard for electrical equipment (IEC 61010) specifies that a product must survive a one meter drop at both its highest and lowest specified operating temperatures. (quote from a Fluke document)

The equipment is dropped so that it lands in the position expected to present the most severe condition.

Non-metallic ENCLOSURES of equipment with a minimum RATED ambient temperature below 2 °C are cooled to the minimum RATED ambient temperature, then tested within 10 min.

[The Soulman]

Does it auto-range on the resistance mode that quick or did you cut it out of the video?

Here's what happened: (German accent->on)

Marketing: We need a Bluetooth multi-meter, Bluetooth is really cool..
Engineering: That's silly, who would use that, and think of the all the work involved.
Management: can't we put in some standard module to save a lot of work? Work=money you know.
Engineering: Yes but think of the rf interference caused in this precision device, and to fit the bloody
BT module we must leave out the standard shield, that could cause all sorts of trouble!
Management: Leave out the standard shield you say? Very good! Those are outsourced and cost 43 cents each and 16 seconds of manual assembly time, great!
What a good day it is to be a manager.

(German accent->off)

[joeqsmith]

Does it auto-range on the resistance mode that quick or did you cut it out of the video?

Here's what happened: (German accent->on)

Marketing: We need a Bluetooth multi-meter, Bluetooth is really cool..
Engineering: That's silly, who would use that, and think of the all the work involved.
Management: can't we put in some standard module to save a lot of work? Work=money you know.
Engineering: Yes but think of the rf interference caused in this precision device, and to fit the bloody
BT module we must leave out the standard shield, that could cause all sorts of trouble!
Management: Leave out the standard shield you say? Very good! Those are outsourced and cost 43 cents each and 16 seconds of manual assembly time, great!
What a good day it is to be a manager.

(German accent->off)

If you want to see how fast the meter autoranges, I suggest watching the earlier videos.  My functional testing takes too much time so I edit it down.

A few steps in the process:
Engineer: What about the safety? 
Manager: Do we meet the letter of the law?
Engineer: IEC does not test with high magnetic forces like the $70 hanger we sell with the meter but it can cause the meter to be in an unsafe state.
Manager: Not our problem. We are not the experts writing the specs.  As long as we meet the letter of the law we are good to go.
Safety inspector:  Looks good to me.
Average Customer: Looks good to me.
Spouse of average customer after tragic event:  Sniff..
Spouses attorney: We believe your spouse was not at fault and there may be a design flaw with the meter.  We saw it on YT...

Several months go by:
Manager:  Sorry engineer, we need a scape goat and you are it!  In the mean time, I bought a new yacht with the bonus I got from all the money we saved.   Clean out your drawers by the end of the day.

Several months go by:
Engineer takes the stand and has saved the emails and voice mails documenting the history on their personal cell phone. 

In the mean time, Extech has finished with their recall of their clamp meters being the mid range supplier they are.

[jordanp123]

Does it auto-range on the resistance mode that quick or did you cut it out of the video?

Here's what happened: (German accent->on)

Marketing: We need a Bluetooth multi-meter, Bluetooth is really cool..
Engineering: That's silly, who would use that, and think of the all the work involved.
Management: can't we put in some standard module to save a lot of work? Work=money you know.
Engineering: Yes but think of the rf interference caused in this precision device, and to fit the bloody
BT module we must leave out the standard shield, that could cause all sorts of trouble!
Management: Leave out the standard shield you say? Very good! Those are outsourced and cost 43 cents each and 16 seconds of manual assembly time, great!
What a good day it is to be a manager.

(German accent->off)

If you want to see how fast the meter autoranges, I suggest watching the earlier videos.  My functional testing takes too much time so I edit it down.

A few steps in the process:
Engineer: What about the safety? 
Manager: Do we meet the letter of the law?
Engineer: IEC does not test with high magnetic forces like the $70 hanger we sell with the meter but it can cause the meter to be in an unsafe state.
Manager: Not our problem. We are not the experts writing the specs.  As long as we meet the letter of the law we are good to go.
Safety inspector:  Looks good to me.
Average Customer: Looks good to me.
Spouse of average customer after tragic event:  Sniff..
Spouses attorney: We believe your spouse was not at fault and there may be a design flaw with the meter.  We saw it on YT...

Several months go by:
Manager:  Sorry engineer, we need a scape goat and you are it!  In the mean time, I bought a new yacht with the bonus I got from all the money we saved.   Clean out your drawers by the end of the day.

Several months go by:
Engineer takes the stand and has saved the emails and voice mails documenting the history on their personal cell phone. 

In the mean time, Extech has finished with their recall of their clamp meters being the mid range supplier they are.

100% Correct ! I've seen it first hand, minus the yacht and few specifics.

[Fungus]

$800, 6-digit meter with no internal shielding at all?

 

[joeqsmith]

$800, 6-digit meter with no internal shielding at all?

 

Here I thought nothing got by you. There is a shield on one side of the board.  If you watch Dave's video of the Xtra, you will see the same 4 PTHs where the second shield mounts to.   That shield does not look like it would have worked for the Ultra BT.   

The questions I have is does the A model (no BT) have a shield on the backside and is my B model missing a shield from the factory or was this by design?   Because Gossen has had no contact with me and Dranetz went so far as to block my email over a simple question of getting the meter aligned, I doubt I will ever know.