Poll

Which meter should be ran to celebrate 2000 subscribers?

Dave's new 121GW
58 (55.8%)
Gossen Metrawatt (you pick)
14 (13.5%)
HIOKI DT4282
6 (5.8%)
Anything but UNI-T (you pick)
1 (1%)
Anything made by UNI-T (you pick)
7 (6.7%)
I think the Fluke 87V is really a good meter and want to see if a third one would be better
10 (9.6%)
This testing is pointless! Please STOP damaging these meters!
8 (7.7%)

Total Members Voted: 103

Author Topic: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.  (Read 444435 times)

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Offline Towger

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3025 on: December 01, 2018, 07:23:06 am »
It is easy to destroy a Fluke Voltalert, you just use the batteries which came with it.  They will eventually leak without warning (but still work) ending in a dead Fluke.

Phontonic is still around, but pulled his last couple of videos.

 
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Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3026 on: December 01, 2018, 07:57:15 am »
Well the battery leak also applies to other aparatus or drop it from higher place :or water divingP Very impressed with the video of king and taylor...  :-DD , looks like a salesman :P

Let's see if there is any information about CAT testing on this NCV's Pens...

By the way no manual in pdf for my specific pen from the seller, but the one from the klein tools serves well.
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Online joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3027 on: December 02, 2018, 08:23:44 am »
It is easy to destroy a Fluke Voltalert, you just use the batteries which came with it.  They will eventually leak without warning (but still work) ending in a dead Fluke.

Phontonic is still around, but pulled his last couple of videos.

Thanks for the link.   I caught his last few videos.  Hopefully he gets things back on track.   I enjoyed his videos.  He was showing  things that I may not have had a chance to see otherwise.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3028 on: December 08, 2018, 09:03:50 am »
Hi

Is this multimeter also under your test Surpeer AV4?

"Vbe 048: 20000 contagens por $13?"

20000 counts for $13 ? It's not going to take much longer in the video  :-DD

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Online rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3029 on: December 08, 2018, 09:10:53 am »
joeqsmith would have a field day with this meter; starting at about 33:30 I put the non-volt ranges through a ring generator (90VAC, 20Hz, but the load probably took it down to about 40VAC) and the meter goes completely haywire.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3030 on: December 08, 2018, 09:25:01 am »
I have one pocket meter ( UT120C) which trips in Hz mode when plugging the lead suddenly or do any tiny friction in the 230V 50Hz AC socket or even in isolation transformer, same voltage , freq, 6VA . Thankfully this was an offer...
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Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3031 on: December 08, 2018, 09:39:58 am »
Well this one doesn't do that and doesn't work well on my sockets . I have to use a UK to EU(Type G to F ??? blob:https://www.dropbox.com/1b062708-409e-4ccc-b9c3-485785168d62 )  adapter to work on the plugs  :-DD It doesn't trip with DC voltages... Now its time to perform a test on a Isolated transformer , 220 VAC 6VA .

I've found the manual of the model i've purchased. it is a VoltAlert 1AC-D :

http://www.avtechtrading.info/uploads/TOOACV01%20AC%20Voltage%20Tester.pdf

« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 09:46:50 am by malagas_on_fire »
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Online joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3032 on: December 08, 2018, 10:28:02 pm »
joeqsmith would have a field day with this meter; starting at about 33:30 I put the non-volt ranges through a ring generator (90VAC, 20Hz, but the load probably took it down to about 40VAC) and the meter goes completely haywire.
I have not seen any other reviews for this meter.  Someone had pointed it out to me in a YT comment.  They had a 3D drawing of the meter and I could see it was similar to other low end meters I have looked at and figured why bother.   

I don't know your language but I watched your video anyway.  It's funny how the brain will put a story together just based on your voice and gestures.  There is not much to these handheld meters which also helps in following along. 

Yes, that input trace to what appears to be the ground plane looks bad.  The large fuse you show appears to be the same that was in the Meterk. The end caps will just pull off on that one.  You should find it is filled.  On the Meterk, the smaller fuse was NOT filled.  Contrary to what Fungus believes, not all ceramic fuses are filled safety fuses.   You would need to pull it apart and have a look.    It took a while before I figured out that you were using a telephone ring generator.  Google pictures to the rescue.   :-DD

In the end, I get the feeling there was not a lot of praise coming from you.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Online Fungus

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3033 on: December 08, 2018, 10:57:00 pm »
I still haven't managed to blow the fuses in that meter yet. The other day I used it to measure the current flowing through a 20,000V CO2 laser tube, but no luck. 

(18mA)

When I do I'll be sure to pull them apart and look inside.  :popcorn:

 

Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3034 on: December 09, 2018, 01:11:26 am »
The fuses are filled with air or sand and of course the fillament :p  :-DD

Just kidding.
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Online joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3035 on: December 09, 2018, 06:12:31 am »
We (me included) will post about the sand filled fuses all being safe.  I really wonder if that is true.  Some like the one in this meter and that crap Meterk are not sealed.  The end caps will pull off.  Others will have a woven glass with crimped ends.  What happens if water mixes with the sand and you touch one off?   Like some of the markings on handheld meters,  nothing says they could not incorrectly mark a fuse.   

I wonder how they actually certify them.  Say you buy a 30KA fuse.  How do you know it doesn't come apart at 30KA? 
How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3036 on: December 09, 2018, 07:47:07 am »
Well at least we know with a lot of volts and amps they will break :





From photoninduction :P Big fat capacitor

« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 07:49:43 am by malagas_on_fire »
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Online joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3037 on: December 09, 2018, 09:28:54 am »
Some details about the testing but not much...

https://youtu.be/9kcHAnGOhxo?t=30
How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Online joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3038 on: December 09, 2018, 09:42:27 am »
A little higher energy test setups than what I use to benchmark the meters.   Here they talk about the filler and it being packed.   I think there is a bit more to it than what you see posted here.  Just add some sand, its free sort of posts....

https://youtu.be/Uj0oHUSSW_8?t=13
How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Online rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3039 on: December 09, 2018, 09:50:09 am »
joeqsmith would have a field day with this meter; starting at about 33:30 I put the non-volt ranges through a ring generator (90VAC, 20Hz, but the load probably took it down to about 40VAC) and the meter goes completely haywire.
I have not seen any other reviews for this meter.  Someone had pointed it out to me in a YT comment.  They had a 3D drawing of the meter and I could see it was similar to other low end meters I have looked at and figured why bother.   

I don't know your language but I watched your video anyway.  It's funny how the brain will put a story together just based on your voice and gestures.  There is not much to these handheld meters which also helps in following along. 

Yes, that input trace to what appears to be the ground plane looks bad.  The large fuse you show appears to be the same that was in the Meterk. The end caps will just pull off on that one.  You should find it is filled.  On the Meterk, the smaller fuse was NOT filled.  Contrary to what Fungus believes, not all ceramic fuses are filled safety fuses.   You would need to pull it apart and have a look.    It took a while before I figured out that you were using a telephone ring generator.  Google pictures to the rescue.   :-DD

In the end, I get the feeling there was not a lot of praise coming from you.
Thank you; that is truly an honor to have you watching something from me - I learned so many nuggets from your videos. I would love to have the energy and time to create decent captions, but unfortunately this is a full time job on itself. I could do dubbing as well, but unfortunately this means almost re-doing the video. Oh, well...

Regarding the details, you are right that I had a bit of trouble with the input traces and their lack of creepage, but I was very impressed by the quality of the PCB material - the copper is quite thick for your regular cheapie meter, and the amount of via stitching is impressive. I had my suspicions about the fuse, their lacking specs (less than nominal 1kV) and their ludicrous 100kA claim (although it may be mildly possible at the rated 380V).

I also commented on the very lonely PTC to protect the inputs, which is located after the switch (something you mention in your videos and I learned to pay attention), as well as the vias on the middle of the wiper contacts, which may wear out after years of very intense use.

I have been using the ring generator (a BlackMagic module scavenged from an ancient Gandalf ISDN modem) for quite some time when testing the AC range of my meters. However, it was the first time I put it to try to break a meter - it has low enough energy to not blow it on my face, but high enough to show my audience the reason why protection is important. I make a statement on a caption of what would happen if a user accidentally connects the probes in an outlet, considering it was behaving so badly with such low energy.

Overall I think you can put this meter to very good use in electronics if you are on a shoestring - that is the case of most of the audience, given that import taxes in Brazil are ludicrous and an A-brand can easily go to 2~3x the price. With that scenario, folks tend to be a lot more forgiving of a meter's issues and may take some dangerous risks. But you are right that I wasn't much cheerful due to all the issues shown.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Online joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3040 on: December 09, 2018, 11:17:55 am »
Funny, I wasn't thinking you were trying to damage the meter with the phone ring generator.   You could get a piezo grill starter if you wanted to try and zap one.  The problem I see is that they are not consistent from unit to unit.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Online rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3041 on: December 09, 2018, 11:45:59 am »
Funny, I wasn't thinking you were trying to damage the meter with the phone ring generator.   You could get a piezo grill starter if you wanted to try and zap one.  The problem I see is that they are not consistent from unit to unit.
Well, a manner of speaking. I wasn't necessarily trying to damage the meter but instead putting to test if their claimed 550V of overvoltage protection was actually true.

I think a distinction between the grill starter and the ring generator is that the latter is closer to the scenario where someone has the wrong range - it takes several seconds to realize the meter is under duress of a continuous voltage. The grill starter and all the tests you do are similar to a true transient hitting the equipment completely at random.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3042 on: December 09, 2018, 11:23:24 pm »
Some details about the testing but not much...

https://youtu.be/9kcHAnGOhxo?t=30

Nice one, the switch is activated mechanically by remote wire to blow thats fuses. Not much details on what load they were indeed...
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Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3043 on: December 09, 2018, 11:25:20 pm »
A little higher energy test setups than what I use to benchmark the meters.   Here they talk about the filler and it being packed.   I think there is a bit more to it than what you see posted here.  Just add some sand, its free sort of posts....

https://youtu.be/Uj0oHUSSW_8?t=13

Yes but they talk about "specific" quartz sand and also special care about compression.
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Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3044 on: December 09, 2018, 11:30:55 pm »
Funny, I wasn't thinking you were trying to damage the meter with the phone ring generator.   You could get a piezo grill starter if you wanted to try and zap one.  The problem I see is that they are not consistent from unit to unit.
Well, a manner of speaking. I wasn't necessarily trying to damage the meter but instead putting to test if their claimed 550V of overvoltage protection was actually true.

I think a distinction between the grill starter and the ring generator is that the latter is closer to the scenario where someone has the wrong range - it takes several seconds to realize the meter is under duress of a continuous voltage. The grill starter and all the tests you do are similar to a true transient hitting the equipment completely at random.

The lots of residue of flux and poorly soldered jacks would be bad on a 230V diy circuit such as a triac driver, when for example you do some friction on the electric plugs and causes arcs. It ill buzz a little bit, but also trip the meters as beeping and OL. Thats when it is needed to cut power ASAP and redo connections. Not sure if would arc in the flux residue or the bad soldering.   
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Online rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3045 on: December 10, 2018, 02:50:48 am »
I have seen much worse solder flux residue around jacks and HV resistors that did not arc when the regular 1kV is applied. A triac dimmer could see some problems if the temperatures become very high- although to melt flux I suspect the dimmer would be toasted a long time before.

When I give my verdict of a cheap meter I take into consideration also what I have seen before from the bottom of the barrel: loose metal (springs, solder blobs, wiper contacts) and other "creative work" on solder joints and components. This meter was well put together for the price.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3046 on: December 10, 2018, 03:29:10 am »
Some of the later low cost meters I have looked at from ANENG, MeterK are actually assembled well compared with my much higher cost Extech that I use.   The new revision of the Harbor Freight meters still don't have very good construction.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3047 on: December 10, 2018, 11:54:43 am »
I've openend the broken anengish meter and had also some flux residue on the front side:

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hear-kitty-kitty-kitty-nope-not-that-kind-of-cat/msg1924219/#msg1924219

Yes it is very good built quality and lots of features if considering the price .

Is it possible to create some sort of capacitive controlled, load to test the breakdown current of the HRC fuses ? That would require to test under the maximum voltage has well... lots of energy envolved.
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Online joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3048 on: December 10, 2018, 12:49:03 pm »
I've openend the broken anengish meter and had also some flux residue on the front side:

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hear-kitty-kitty-kitty-nope-not-that-kind-of-cat/msg1924219/#msg1924219

Yes it is very good built quality and lots of features if considering the price .

Is it possible to create some sort of capacitive controlled, load to test the breakdown current of the HRC fuses ? That would require to test under the maximum voltage has well... lots of energy envolved.

We can see the size of some of that test equipment in those videos.  I wonder if we found the standards they mention, if they describe in more detail what sort of waveforms they use, how the equipment is calibrated and such.   I wonder just how many Joules we are talking about.   

Nothing anyone would ever attempt at home, we except ProtonicInduction.   I think it was in the very last video he made he shows the large capacitor bank that he put together.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Online Fungus

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3049 on: December 10, 2018, 08:52:39 pm »
Nothing anyone would ever attempt at home, we except ProtonicInduction.   I think it was in the very last video he made he shows the large capacitor bank that he put together.   

Did he make no more videos after that? Has he vanished from the internet?
 


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