Help me chose my first oscilloscope

[NEoX]

Hi! I'm new here on forum!

So, I'm a student of electrical engineering  and I want to buy an oscilloscope to learn more about stuff and have in mind some projects to do. At the moment I'm working on project "supervision of pellet furnace" with ESP8266 and automatic refilling. For that project I build my own schematic and board, but it has some problems and I want to debug it.
So I need an oscilloscope, and also in next semester I have a course about oscilloscope and measure.

My budget is 450€ max! 

1. I was looking at some models like Rigol ds1054z but i don't know if this scope is best buy for that money in 2018. (I will unlock to 100MHz if still can and all other things like I2C,RS232...)

2. My main interest is digital electronic/microcontrollers/serial comunications (I2C,UART,RS232....)

3. I want to buy a product that I can use for long, long time as a student and to do hobby stuff with it and maybe one day for work 

Please suggest me some oscilloscopes that will last.

Thanks!

Sorry if this topic doesn't belong here. 

[pilotchup]

At that price range, you only have a few options.

The Rigol you mentioned, probably one of the best options.
The Keysight 1000 series, only 2ch though (well, 2.5ch you can say)
The Siglent SDS1000X-E series scopes - thinking about this myself.
Or there's also OWON that make Zynq based scopes

Basically, at that price range, you have the Rigol or Keysight and then any other scope that is based of the Zynq FPGA MCU, in my opinion.

[rsjsouza]

There's also the GW Instek GDS-1072B or GDS-1054B with excellent features - although I think they don't have serial decoders. Depending on the decoder you need, this can be solved with a very cheap logic analyzer.

[nctnico]

There's also the GW Instek GDS-1072B or GDS-1054B with excellent features - although I think they don't have serial decoders. Depending on the decoder you need, this can be solved with a very cheap logic analyzer.

Nowadays these can be hacked to have the serial decoders. Also GW Instek offers a limited lifetime warranty (IIRC the warranty ends 5 years after they stop producing the product) to the original owner.

[pilotchup]

Also of note, the Digilent Analog Discovery 2.

Great pricing for students and it is like the kitchen sink or jack of all trades. Does a lot of stuff but not particularly the best at those thing - although it is perfectly decent and good for a student.

[NEoX]

I want to buy something that will last long time..I don't want to spend now lik 100€ and after 2y again 400€ for something more powerfull ..I want to buy something nice that gives some options that I can learn and "grorowing" in knowledge.
Rigol is easy to get for me because Im from Croatia and they have shop here (some other scopes are expensive here but it is worth of searching). So I'm looking for that but mby I can find something better for that price

[james_s]

It seems like the Rigol is the obvious choice for you. Other options in that general price range are largely similar in capability.

[NEoX]

So Rigol ds1054z is right choice? Nothing wrong with it or overrated in price?  Just don't want to rush and cry after..

[David Hess]

1. I was looking at some models like Rigol ds1054z but i don't know if this scope is best buy for that money in 2018. (I will unlock to 100MHz if still can and all other things like I2C,RS232...)

The Rigol DS1054Z probably has the best performance for its price despite its problems.

2. My main interest is digital electronic/microcontrollers/serial comunications (I2C,UART,RS232....)

The Rigol DS1054Z serial decoding is pretty limited and low performance.  For one thing, it only operates on what is currently displayed.  Still, it is enough for many users.

You did not mention SPI which requires 3 inputs for full decoding but some of the 2-channel DSOs can use their external trigger input for the 3rd input.

[rsjsouza]

Since you are in the learning phase of engineering, one big drawback of the Rigol is the frequency domain functionality - namely the FFT. If you see yourself interested in analog electronics, this is a good functionality to have in hand and the other models mentioned here have a better implementation.

Another detail that detracts from the Rigol is the fact the decoders only work on the waveforms that are shown in the display, not in the complete acquired memory. This is quite an annoyance when you are actually decoding longer streams of data. I don't know how the other ones work, but a cheap USB logic analyzer can take care of that.

Going for Rigol is the local distributor - if they are decent, they can help you with lots of things ranging from warranty to repairs.

[Old Printer]

Also of note, the Digilent Analog Discovery 2.

Great pricing for students and it is like the kitchen sink or jack of all trades. Does a lot of stuff but not particularly the best at those thing - although it is perfectly decent and good for a student.

The current Analog Discovery full price is $279. Verified student price is $179. At one time this was $99, but that has been discontinued. Still, at $179 this is a great learning tool. I paid $279 for mine and really like it.

[tggzzz]

Please suggest me some oscilloscopes that will last.

No oscilloscope will last; you will always want a "better" one

Are you sure you need only a scope? The digilent analogue discovery is designed for students, and also includes a waveform generator, a logic analyser, a pattern generator, a network analyser, a control loop analyser....

Good practice is to debug analogue signals in the analogue domain with a scope to ensure signal integrity. Once you know the analogue signals will be correctly interpreted as digital signals, flip to debugging in the digital domain with logic analysers, printf statements and similar.

[NEoX]

Thank you all for the help..will look around little bit more before final decision. Keep giving advices!

[Fungus]

So Rigol ds1054z is right choice?

Yes.

If you're working with microcontrollers then get 4 channels.

Just don't want to rush and cry after..

2 channels would do that.

[Fungus]

The Rigol DS1054Z serial decoding is pretty limited and low performance.  For one thing, it only operates on what is currently displayed.  Still, it is enough for many users.

True, but ALL oscilloscopes are a bit rubbish for decoding long sequences of data, they're really the wrong tool for the job (wrong user interface, not much memory, etc.).

You can use a DS1054Z to see if the signals are present and correct and get a $6 logic analyzer if you want to see long sequences of data.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=usb+logic+analyzer

You did not mention SPI which requires 3 inputs for full decoding but some of the 2-channel DSOs can use their external trigger input for the 3rd input.

Better to get 4 channels and not worry.

[tggzzz]

The Rigol DS1054Z serial decoding is pretty limited and low performance.  For one thing, it only operates on what is currently displayed.  Still, it is enough for many users.

True, but ALL oscilloscopes are a bit rubbish for decoding long sequences of data, they're really the wrong tool for the job (wrong user interface, not much memory, etc.).

You can use a DS1054Z to see if the signals are present and correct and get a $6 logic analyzer if you want to see long sequences of data.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=usb+logic+analyzer

You did not mention SPI which requires 3 inputs for full decoding but some of the 2-channel DSOs can use their external trigger input for the 3rd input.

Better to get 4 channels and not worry.

Better still to get two fast (>100MHz!) channels to spot voltage/timing violations, and then to use some form of logic analyser. But you know that

[Fungus]

Better still to get two fast (>100MHz!) channels to spot voltage/timing violations, and then to use some form of logic analyser. But you know that

It's good to be able to decode a byte or two of data on screen though, along with the relative timing of each signal on the bus.

I'd pick 4 channels @100MHz over 2 channels @200Mhz for digital work, I often want to see another signal along with the data on the bus (devices usually respond to the data they receive).

Plus: You can do things like toggle an I/O pin in your I2C interrupt handler to see if it fired or not. Use the fourth channel for debugging. 

More channels is good, you'll always find a use for them in digital work. Logic analyzers are good for debugging communication protocols but they don't tend to show things in real time like an oscilloscope does. Sometimes it's good to just hook up a probe and see the signal.

PS: DS1054Z is >100MHz in real life, but you knew that.

[NEoX]

Better still to get two fast (>100MHz!) channels to spot voltage/timing violations, and then to use some form of logic analyser. But you know that

It's good to be able to decode a byte or two of data on screen though, along with the relative timing of each signal on the bus.

I'd pick 4 channels @100MHz over 2 channels @200Mhz for digital work, I often want to see another signal along with the data on the bus (devices usually respond to the data they receive).

Plus: You can do things like toggle an I/O pin in your I2C interrupt handler to see if it fired or not. Use the fourth channel for debugging. 

More channels is good, you'll always find a use for them in digital work. Logic analyzers are good for debugging communication protocols but they don't tend to show things in real time like an oscilloscope does. Sometimes it's good to just hook up a probe and see the signal.

PS: DS1054Z is >100MHz in real life, but you knew that.

yes..I would unlock all the things after powering it ON for first time  (unlock to 100MHz and all other things) (if I buy it..but Im staring to dream that scope hahha)

[Old Printer]

I am not very fluent in euros or the scope market in your country, but I think your budget puts you right on the edge of the Siglent SDS1104X-E scope. As you are looking toward the future, I think you should take a good hard look at this scope if it is available in your country. I think it gives you a few more options towards the future than the current Rigol 1054z.

[NivagSwerdna]

I bought a 1052E a few years back and don't regret it... the difference between not having a scope and having one is quite astounding!  (For all analogue signals I used to rely on intuition!)

I would aim to spend as little as you can and to get something that will last you for say 5-years. 

I love the 1052E but if I was buying now I would go for the 1054Z as having 2 channels is hard work... I do have 4CH envy.

The Rigols are not perfect and TBH I would like a snappier User Interface and a higher resolution display but it has taken me to designs that were beyond my reach before.

The Siglents look like a potential alternative but if I was buying again I would get a 1054Z without hesitation.  IMHO The Keysight doesn't have enough channels at our price point.

[james_s]

No oscilloscope will last; you will always want a "better" one

I've had my TDS784C for a few years now and it's still more scope than I really need, can't imagine needing a better one. There are times when a physically smaller one would be nice though.

Before that I got by on a 465B for around 15 years.

[David Hess]

I bought a 1052E a few years back and don't regret it... the difference between not having a scope and having one is quite astounding!  (For all analogue signals I used to rely on intuition!)

I evaluated the Rigol 1000D and 1000E series when I decided I needed a DSO at home few years ago and disqualified them for lack of peak detection but I was not as desperate since I had a couple of analog oscilloscopes.  This was before the Rigol 1000Z series was released.  Instead I bought a couple of Tektronix 2230s and 2232s and refurbished them.

I love the 1052E but if I was buying now I would go for the 1054Z as having 2 channels is hard work... I do have 4CH envy.

I also wanted 4 channels so I stacked a pair of 2230/2232s together.  This was still less expensive than anything new but only because I knew I could repair and refurbish them.

The Siglents look like a potential alternative but if I was buying again I would get a 1054Z without hesitation.  IMHO The Keysight doesn't have enough channels at our price point.

Today I would take a very close look at Rohde & Schwarz and Keysight but they are outside of the OP's budget.

[nctnico]

So Rigol ds1054z is right choice?

Yes.

I hate to burst your bubble (NOT!  ) but I think the GW Instek GDS1054B offers better value for money when hacked (by loading a license file) nowadays. 4 channels, 10Mpts per channel, full memory decoding, 1Mpts FFT and probably many more features which the Rigol DS1054Z isn't good at or even doesn't have.

[tautech]

So Rigol ds1054z is right choice?

Yes.

I hate to burst your bubble (NOT!  ) but I think the GW Instek GDS1054B offers better value for money when hacked (by loading a license file) nowadays. 4 channels, 10Mpts per channel, full memory decoding, 1Mpts FFT and probably many more features which the Rigol DS1054Z isn't good at or even doesn't have.

I agree.
For a trainee EE looking for a DSO to go into the future there are better choices now than a 1054Z.
It all depends on how much future proofing is required or can be afforded.

[rsjsouza]

So Rigol ds1054z is right choice?

Yes.

I hate to burst your bubble (NOT!  ) but I think the GW Instek GDS1054B offers better value for money when hacked (by loading a license file) nowadays. 4 channels, 10Mpts per channel, full memory decoding, 1Mpts FFT and probably many more features which the Rigol DS1054Z isn't good at or even doesn't have.

I agree.
For a trainee EE looking for a DSO to go into the future there are better choices now than a 1054Z.
It all depends on how much future proofing is required or can be afforded.

+1. The DS1054Z is an older architecture that is lagging behind the newer offers. 

[NEoX]

So guys let you tell me top 3 models of all that you offer there on forum ..I will look up what I can find ..so the scopes are:
-Rigol ds1054z (unlocked)
-Siglent SDS1104X-E
-GW Instek GDS1054B
-? (something else)

[tautech]

So guys let you tell me top 3 models of all that you offer there on forum ..I will look up what I can find ..so the scopes are:
-Rigol ds1054z (unlocked)
-Siglent SDS1104X-E
-GW Instek GDS1054B
-? (something else)

As a budding EE one of your 'required' skills is understanding datasheets !
I strongly suggest this is where you start.
Here's one:
https://www.siglenteu.com/download/5424/

[Gtx21]

The SDA1104X-E trounces the Rigol 1054z,
But at the cost of about $150 more.  (So not Apples to apples)


It has more memory per channel, more wfps per channel, is 100mHz out of box, upgrades to 200 MHz perhaps, and comes with what I believe are better stock probes.

There’s a reason Rigol lowered the price and is throwing in all the licensing options now.

I don’t know much about the GW Instek yet.

[NEoX]

Will look and do some comparation. At the end I will buy something that I can find here in Croatia for good price. But now i know what kind of scopes to look.

[tautech]

Will look and do some comparation. At the end I will buy something that I can find here in Croatia for good price. But now i know what kind of scopes to look.

Do come back with any questions you might have about 'features'.
Your seemed happy to hack a 1054Z so you might be happy to do some tricks on the Siglent too. 

[james_s]

The problem with a question like this is that everyone has their own opinion and you can become paralyzed with indecision. In the end though I think you will probably be happy with any of the suggested scopes. They all have advantages and disadvantages, and they are all much more capable than any of the hobby affordable scopes 10-20 years ago.

[NEoX]

Will look and do some comparation. At the end I will buy something that I can find here in Croatia for good price. But now i know what kind of scopes to look.

Do come back with any questions you might have about 'features'.
Your seemed happy to hack a 1054Z so you might be happy to do some tricks on the Siglent too. 

Im "happy" because Rigol have shop here in Croatia and i can get it easy ..some scopes are high priced here and as student I dont have extra money to spend. If I buy scope forom outside the country tehere are extra taxes to pay

[tautech]

Will look and do some comparation. At the end I will buy something that I can find here in Croatia for good price. But now i know what kind of scopes to look.

Do come back with any questions you might have about 'features'.
Your seemed happy to hack a 1054Z so you might be happy to do some tricks on the Siglent too. 

Im "happy" because Rigol have shop here in Croatia and i can get it easy ..some scopes are high priced here and as student I dont have extra money to spend. If I buy scope forom outside the country tehere are extra taxes to pay

Your local Siglent distributor:

Croatia
Micom Electronics, d.o.o.
 Dobrave 10, 1236 Trzin, Slovenia
 386 (1) 589 62 56
 www.micom-tm.com
 info@micom.si

[NEoX]

Will look and do some comparation. At the end I will buy something that I can find here in Croatia for good price. But now i know what kind of scopes to look.

Do come back with any questions you might have about 'features'.
Your seemed happy to hack a 1054Z so you might be happy to do some tricks on the Siglent too. 

Im "happy" because Rigol have shop here in Croatia and i can get it easy ..some scopes are high priced here and as student I dont have extra money to spend. If I buy scope forom outside the country tehere are extra taxes to pay

Your local Siglent distributor:

Croatia
Micom Electronics, d.o.o.
 Dobrave 10, 1236 Trzin, Slovenia
 386 (1) 589 62 56
 www.micom-tm.com
 info@micom.si

Yes i know. Thank you! ..I asked them for the Siglent SDS1104X-E and price

[Fungus]

The SDA1104X-E trounces the Rigol 1054z,
But at the cost of about $150 more.  (So not Apples to apples)

A minor point that the Siglent fanboys always seem to forget - theirs costs 50% more.

For the Price of Siglent you can have a Rigol and (eg.) a Brymen BM257S.

(or a Rigol, a Hakko soldering iron and a couple of useful Chinese multimeters)

And the difference between the two 'scopes isn't as much as they'd like you to think.

[Fungus]

There’s a reason Rigol lowered the price.

Yep. They were so far ahead of the competition they could sell it at a big markup for three whole years.

[josip]

Im "happy" because Rigol have shop here in Croatia and i can get it easy ..some scopes are high priced here and as student I dont have extra money to spend. If I buy scope forom outside the country tehere are extra taxes to pay

I didn't find any shops localy with fair price, so I bought SDS1202X-E from www.welectron.com.
Free shiping with 19% German VAT and 5% discount for EEVBlog members. No extra taxes to pay (EU).
It was paid with bancomat (not credit) card. Of course, with BB serial number (no compensation issue).

[NEoX]

I just can't decide now what to buy ..the siglent sds1104x-e (498€) or rigol ds1054z (444€) .. Just thinking is it worth to spend 54€ more for siglent or not ..mby I can spend that 54€ for other electronic gear and projects ..I want to hear you guys with more experience. Is it worth?

[DC1MC]

Wait untill the wek-end, you may have a nice surprise.

 Cheers,
 DC1MC

[Fungus]

Wait untill the wek-end, you may have a nice surprise.

New low-cost Rigol model?   

I just can't decide now what to buy ..the siglent sds1104x-e (498€) or rigol ds1054z (444€) .. Just thinking is it worth to spend 54€ more for siglent or not ..mby I can spend that 54€ for other electronic gear and projects ..I want to hear you guys with more experience. Is it worth?

A DS1054Z shouldn't cost 444€.

Batronix will send you one for 403 Euros: https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Rigol-DS1054Z.html

That's with shipping included and you won't pay any taxes because it's within Europe.

If you want to get yours from the local Rigol office then give them a call to explain the situation or go down there and show them that page. I'm sure they'll come up with a special deal so you can buy one from them instead.

Or...let's wait until the weekend. 

[SaKhan]

If the pointed prices are correct, the Siglent is a no brainer to me. It's almost double the scope - 2x the bandwith (with the hack), 2x ADC, features, etc.

[NEoX]

Wait untill the wek-end, you may have a nice surprise.

 Cheers,
 DC1MC

Nice, confuse me more and more..Now thinking is it worth to buy any of this  hahah

[NEoX]

If the pointed prices are correct, the Siglent is a no brainer to me. It's almost double the scope - 2x the bandwith (with the hack), 2x ADC, features, etc.

The prices are what i can get here local.

[rsjsouza]

As I mentioned before, the current drawbacks of the Rigol tied to the rather small price difference between a newer device with a potentially longer lifespam (think of firmware updates, etc) certainly make me believe the Siglent is the best choice here. I tend to rationalize my expensive purchases this way: how much does it actually cost during the equipment's lifespam?

If the price difference seems critical now, think about in a year, where the difference will be about 15 cents per day.

A nice and very long review from a resident expert.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/

[DC1MC]

Wait untill the wek-end, you may have a nice surprise.

 Cheers,
 DC1MC

Nice, confuse me more and more..Now thinking is it worth to buy any of this  hahah

Well I have a Rigol MSO 1074Z that I may put it up for sale this WE for a very accptable price. That's it about the surprise.
And don't hurry with the scope, they will not go away or get more expensive, au contraire.

 Cheers,
 DC1MC

[NEoX]

Wait untill the wek-end, you may have a nice surprise.

 Cheers,
 DC1MC

Nice, confuse me more and more..Now thinking is it worth to buy any of this  hahah

Well I have a Rigol MSO 1074Z that I may put it up for sale this WE for a very accptable price. That's it about the surprise.
And don't hurry with the scope, they will not go away or get more expensive, au contraire.

 Cheers,
 DC1MC

Sorry m8 but I want to buy new oscilloscope from the shop. Yes, no rush.. Sure.. I want to think twice before buy

[Fungus]

It's almost double the scope - 2x the bandwith (with the hack), 2x ADC, features, etc.

The Siglent hack is a lot more difficult (and warranty-voiding) than just pushing a few buttons.

[tautech]

It's almost double the scope - 2x the bandwith (with the hack), 2x ADC, features, etc.

The Siglent hack is a lot more difficult (and warranty-voiding) than just pushing a few buttons.

Right, so you now care how equipment is hacked ? 

[james_s]

Well that would be something I'd take into consideration. Not saying it would be the definitive factor but it's a legitimate thing to mention.

I don't understand why people get so worked out about something like this though, an oscilloscope is just a tool, any of the suggested models ought to meet the OP's needs, why does it need a passionate debate? It's just really not that important, there is not that big of a difference and you will never have to use their scope anyway.

[ttelectronic]

Well that would be something I'd take into consideration. Not saying it would be the definitive factor but it's a legitimate thing to mention.

I don't understand why people get so worked out about something like this though, an oscilloscope is just a tool, any of the suggested models ought to meet the OP's needs, why does it need a passionate debate? It's just really not that important, there is not that big of a difference and you will never have to use their scope anyway.

Agree. For me it was a simple factor, money. Would have been a couple hundred bucks more for the sds1104 x-e, that is why the Rigol won out. 

[Fungus]

It's almost double the scope - 2x the bandwith (with the hack), 2x ADC, features, etc.

The Siglent hack is a lot more difficult (and warranty-voiding) than just pushing a few buttons.

Right, so you now care how equipment is hacked ? 

I'm just pointing out that not everybody around here has a solder rework station, a JTAG programmer, a Digikey account and enough money to buy another one if it goes wrong.

You talk about the "Siglent Hack" like it's a done deal but that's far from the truth.

Agree. For me it was a simple factor, money. Would have been a couple hundred bucks more for the sds1104 x-e, that is why the Rigol won out. 

The difference between owning a 'scope and not owning one is night/day. The difference between owning a nice 'scope and a slightly nicer 'scope? Not so much.

Me? I say stop and think about what you could do with the extra money first. A decent soldering iron? A good multimeter? Either will improve your life a lot more than a slightly better serial decoder (or whatever) in your 'scope will.

[tggzzz]

The difference between owning a 'scope and not owning one is night/day. The difference between owning a nice 'scope and a slightly nicer 'scope? Not so much.

Me? I say stop and think about what you could do with the extra money first. A decent soldering iron? A good multimeter? Either will improve your life a lot more than a slightly better serial decoder (or whatever) in your 'scope will.

Both those points are sane!

Use a cheap logic analyser or the IDE's debugger or printf statements for serial decode.

[NEoX]

ok.ok. Forget about hacking.. I will say it this way: what is better option, Siglent sds1104x-e (stock) or Rigol DS1054Z (with "free" licence for unlocking all options) ..is still Siglenth worth paying 50€ more? ..looking on long time usage.

-have someone Online shop for EU no taxes with warranty (lowest price/coupons) for Siglent and Rigol?

-i can get here at local store the siglent sds1104x-e (498€) or rigol ds1054z (444€)

and yes, make a vote at the top of the page and I want hear what you think

[SMB784]

I'm just pointing out that not everybody around here has a solder rework station, a JTAG programmer, a Digikey account and enough money to buy another one if it goes wrong.

You talk about the "Siglent Hack" like it's a done deal but that's far from the truth.

I think you havent been reading the most recent posts on upgrading the Siglent bandwidth in the SDS1104X-E threads.

You dont need a solder rework station, nor do you need a JTAG programmer or a digikey account, or even any extra money.

The only thing you need is an ethernet cable and access to the internet.  The upgrade takes 5 minutes if performed correctly, and there are very detailed instructions on how to perform this upgrade correctly.  The upgrade also appears to be fully reversible (to preserve the warranty), and has been tested on quite a few instruments with documented, verified results (see any posts by rf-loop, janekivi, or myself on the siglent .ads firmware thread and the main Siglent 1104X-E thread).  This upgrade turns your 1104X-E into an 1204X-E for free.

This bandwidth upgrade is the real deal, and is easy to do.  It makes the SDS1104X-E better than the Rigol scope in almost every conceivable way (twice the bandwidth, twice the sample rate per channel when all 4 channels are used, more than twice the WFM update rate, more memory per channel, better probes, etc).  I was an owner of the Rigol 1054Z and I loved that scope, I used it for many years before selling it and getting an SDS1104X-E.  The Siglent is the better scope, and with the bandwidth upgrade I wager it is also the better deal.

[NEoX]

You just said all I need.. I think the Siglent is the choice !! The end!

-so guys (mby girls also ) do you have any EU (no taxes) shop to get cheaper Siglent sds1104x-e? (cheaper than 498€)

[SMB784]

You just said all I need.. I think the Siglent is the choice !! The end!

-so guys (mby girls also ) do you have any EU (no taxes) shop to get cheaper Siglent sds1104x-e? (cheaper than 498€)

Check out the siglent equipment discount thread.  Make a post there with your intentions to buy one and they might give you a modest discount.

[2N3055]

You just said all I need.. I think the Siglent is the choice !! The end!

-so guys (mby girls also ) do you have any EU (no taxes) shop to get cheaper Siglent sds1104x-e? (cheaper than 498€)

Sorry to disappoint you, since you are not buying as company, you will have to pay VAT if it's EU.
So it's either a private buy (used)from somebody, or new and pay full price in shop (with VAT).
You could register for a source country to return you their taxes if you pay taxes at home, but if you buy in Germany they have 19% and we have 25%.. So better to just pay there.

[josip]

You just said all I need.. I think the Siglent is the choice !! The end!

-so guys (mby girls also ) do you have any EU (no taxes) shop to get cheaper Siglent sds1104x-e? (cheaper than 498€)

510.5€ including German 19% VAT at www.welectron.com , -5% eevblog discount -> 485€

[Fungus]

I'm just pointing out that not everybody around here has a solder rework station, a JTAG programmer, a Digikey account and enough money to buy another one if it goes wrong.

You talk about the "Siglent Hack" like it's a done deal but that's far from the truth.

I think you havent been reading the most recent posts on upgrading the Siglent bandwidth in the SDS1104X-E threads.

You got me there, but I thought the front end was physically different when the hacking started. Has Siglent changed that so there's only a firmware difference now?

-i can get here at local store the siglent sds1104x-e (498€) or rigol ds1054z (444€)

If that's the only place you're willing to go shopping then get the Siglent. The rest of the world gets Rigols cheaper than that.

(And I still say it's worth a try to show them the Batronix page and see what they say, any decent salesman will make you an offer)

[SMB784]

I think you havent been reading the most recent posts on upgrading the Siglent bandwidth in the SDS1104X-E threads.

You got me there, but I thought the front end was physically different when the hacking started. Has Siglent changed that so there's only a firmware difference now?

I am not 100% sure about the difference in the front end between the SDS1104X-E & the SDS1204X-E, however a simple firmware change on the 1104X-E will give it the same performance (and indeed internal model number) as the 1204X-E

[2N3055]

In Batterfly (Italy) prices with VAT are 402 and 508, in Batronix, 403 and 510 €.
Welectron have pretty much same price.
Free shipping all.
Welectron and Batterfly give discount for EEVBLOG members.
I order from both, no problems.

[NEoX]

In Batterfly (Italy) prices with VAT are 402 and 508, in Batronix, 403 and 510 €.
Welectron have pretty much same price.
Free shipping all.
Welectron and Batterfly give discount for EEVBLOG members.
I order from both, no problems.

How to get discount from them?

[2N3055]

Well, E-mail...   

[NEoX]

so..I think I will take Rigol (cheaper option than Siglent) and for that money Im thinking to buy power supply (not high end but something that I can use for learning and small projects) It will be nice to have 2 channel supply with protections (Im thinking that I will not need more than 30V 5A ) for around 120€ max. Some suggestion for supply?

[Fungus]

so..I think I will take Rigol (cheaper option than Siglent) and for that money Im thinking to buy power supply (not high end but something that I can use for learning and small projects) It will be nice to have 2 channel supply with protections (Im thinking that I will not need more than 30V 5A ) for around 120€ max. Some suggestion for supply?

Good decision (IMHO). A bench power supply will make a much bigger difference to your life than owning a Siglent instead of a Rigol.

The major point of bench power supplies is that you can limit the current easily and avoid setting your projects on fire. Constant display of amps is also very useful. The ability to dial a voltage is almost a secondary function compared to those.

There's plenty to choose from but like the oscilloscopes, the real choice will depend on where you want to buy from.

[BillB]

I think you havent been reading the most recent posts on upgrading the Siglent bandwidth in the SDS1104X-E threads.

You got me there, but I thought the front end was physically different when the hacking started. Has Siglent changed that so there's only a firmware difference now?

I am not 100% sure about the difference in the front end between the SDS1104X-E & the SDS1204X-E, however a simple firmware change on the 1104X-E will give it the same performance (and indeed internal model number) as the 1204X-E

There are three differences: the probes that are supplied, the label glued to the front, and a couple of changes in some XML configuration files. 

[Wolfgang]

120 Bucks for a dual 30V 5A supply means going for a switching type.
I dont like them for lab use because of high broadband ripple and noise.

If you go for a linear one (I would strongly recommend that) then 120$ is simply too little money to provide for adequate cooling and long time stability. Save some money and go for a decent linear one, like the RIGOL DP832 or maybe a Siglent.

Suggestion: Get a dealer with a 30 day return policy and try what you want to buy.