High-end DMM model opinions needed

[alexwhittemore]

Hi all, long time watcher first time poster. I'm looking for some DMM opinions. Here's the full story:

I'm an undergrad EE student who works on lots of projects all the time. A few months back I started saving up to a $400 goal so that I could get myself a Rigol DS2052E for my birthday in July. Not too long after I started, one of my professors was getting rid of some old equipment in various states of disrepair, and I managed to snag some of it - a Tek power supply that just needed some new fuses, a 1MHz function generator, and -the best part- a Tek 2221A 100MHz/100Ms/s dual channel analog/digital scope.

The scope is as old as I am, to the month judging by the manual's first run date, and it has some quirks like drift in the vertical offset, but in general it's been great to have and it gets the job done. It's missing some things: at 100MS/s, the digital functionality is only 100Mhz in repetitive mode, and being so old it doesn't have built-in FFT or any fancy triggering besides rising/falling/edge/level/so on.

So now that I have this pretty good analog/digital scope, I'm less inclined to drop $400 on another that, in many ways, won't be as good. I'll get an FFT and USB connectivity, but I can survive without them, and if I desperately need a better scope for some project, I do have plenty of access through work and school to the right equipment.

My DMM on the other hand is not terribly satisfying, and being that I use that more than any other tool on my bench, I'm thinking I'll skip the DSO and spend the money on a handheld meter. The question is, which one?

I basically want a DMM in the $200-$400 price range that will make me happy and proud to own for a long time. I'm basing most comparisons on the Fluke 87-V, which is what I'm leaning towards for $310 on amazon. I'm also looking at the agilent U1271A ($340, a little higher in the range I'd like to spend), and the agilent 1242B. My thinking now is that the 1242B is, in lots of ways, sufficient for my needs, and where the other two jockey on some specs, it's basically the floor of either of the others. I do lots of rocket work, so one thing that's important is a good temp range (full k-type, -200-1300C), and j-type would be nice, but only the $370 1272A has that, and I'm not sure I want to spend that much. Both the fluke and the lower-end agilent come up short in this area, while the 1271 has a great temp range. So I'm basically stuck between the Fluke: moderate price, everyone loves it, lifetime warranty, great specs, the $340 Agilent: better temp range, mostly the same specs as the fluke, slightly more expensive, 3yr warranty, and the $210 agilent: alright specs (still blows my current Craftsman meter out of the water), AWESOME price.

The other thing I want to make sure of is that I'm not failing to consider any other good meters in this range. If I'm going to be spending $250-$350, are there any lower-end meters that pack in the features I'm looking for? Or do they all basically fall under the won't-last-you-20-years-like-the-fluke-will?

Thanks for the opinions!

[VIPR]

I've been using a Fluke 187 for a long time and have zero complaints. It's now been replaced by the 287. However, you can still find them on ebay within your price limitations. The specs are fairly good on this meter and I am sure will meet or exceed all your requirements. It's K-type temp measurement spec is -200c to 1370c. If you want the data logging capability you go for the 189 (now 289). However, that model might stretch your budget limit even in the used market. That's my 2 cents worth. 

Here a link to the general specs of the meter: http://www.tequipment.net/FlukeDigital187MultimeterSP.html

[ElektroQuark]

Both 287 and 289 have datalogging now.

[alexwhittemore]

Good suggestion, but the (1/2)(87/89) series is pushing my budget both used and new. I see one used 189-II that looks appealing at $370, but by the time I'm ready to buy I probably can't count on there being much there.

Also, while the increased accuracy and data logging are nice, the only spec I'd actually make good use of is the increased temp range, and that's not SUPER critical: for high-temp tests like checking ignitor formula burn temp, I DO have access to a dedicated fluke thermocouple meter at work that I can borrow.

What I'm really looking for is +- assurance that I'll be as satisfied with the agilent meters as a fluke 87, or alternately suggestions for lower cost meters in the same spec range.

This needs to be something that lasts me a very long time without diminishing utility or function, so I'm probably just as happy paying $50 more for the universally-lauded and lifetime-warrantied meter that has a smaller temp range.

[DaveW]

What I'm really looking for is +- assurance that I'll be as satisfied with the agilent meters as a fluke 87, or alternately suggestions for lower cost meters in the same spec range.

I've been using a U1242B for a while now and it's a very good meter for the price, the construction is good and it's well within the spec. It isn't as rugged as a fluke for field work, but on the bench it is very good. I do miss the graphical data logging compared to a 289, but you can log with the U1242B and scroll through the logged values. As Dave pointed out with another Agilent meter the continuity check isn't as fast as a Fluke, but it's still pretty good, and if you're not continuity checking all day I wouldn't think it's a big deal.
Bear in mind that if you're not buying a Fluke from an authorised dealer, they don't have to honour the warranty (but not unheard of...)

[alexwhittemore]

Actually, I'm glad you mentioned it. Obviously I'm not buying a continuity meter for $350, I could (hmm, maybe I will...) make one that's properly latched/makes sound/has a light/is magic, but I do indeed find myself using continuity mode to test board construction on a regular basis. I don't really want to sink so much  money on a meter and get annoyed with one of the modes.

[DaveW]

Just to clarify, the continuity function is still very good and I use it daily for that kind of thing, testing joints, connections, debugging. The fluke has a faster response, but for most jobs it's not a big deal. Saturation made a video of it in this thread
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=2586.0

[EEVblog]

Ah, the eternal question, which meter to buy!

My advice would be to not put your money in one big high end meter. Two mid range meters would be much more valuable.

The U1242B looks pretty good.

Beware of the high end logging meters with short battery life. Not the best choice for everyday use.

Dave.

[updatelee]

Im not a high end user, just a hobbiest. I bought a 87V on ebay for $225 inc shipping and its amazing, by far the best meter Ive ever used. I dont need the logging features, my old cheapy ebay one had that and I never once used it. Something I could trust was more important to me.

[grenert]

The Fluke 179 is the next model down the line from the 87V.  Still a very nice meter and made in the USA with lifetime warranty.   The temperature range is considerably narrower than the other DMMs you're considering, only goes to 400C.  You could save a little money going with it, though you wouldn't be able to buy two for the price of the 87.  It sounds like you're in the U.S.  Do you really need to have a new meter?  Lots of used Flukes on eBay, craigslist.  The price premium on a new meter is so high that you could buy two used 87s (an earlier version than the series V) for the same price as one new meter.  Not sure about the temp range on the older 87s, though.

[alexwhittemore]

I agree with the two meter point, but this would be my second meter anyway. The first is an $80 meter - not awesome, but it's consistently gotten the job done. It's definitely enough to cover most of my needs, but there are a few places it just comes up short. The thing is, it's definitely enough to pair with a good meter for something like power measurement. Above all else, I'm looking for two things: I want to be able to functionally ignore accuracy for 99% of my projects (when I see X on the scren, I want to know that X is right to a higher precision than I need to bother with), and I want to know that I'll still be happy with my meter and proud that I own it 10 or 20 years from now.

Used meters may well be much cheaper, but I'm less comfortable with the idea for two reasons: One, for my $250 on ebay I can't be positive of what I'm getting. has it fallen out of spec? Does it look okay but has been dropped one too many times? I'm a sucker for the unboxing, and for the extra money I'd rather have the pride of knowing it's my own.

The other thing is I'll always have an extra $100 or $150 to drop on a good-enough meter if it's ABSOLUTELY necessary. And I have access to functionally any test equipment I might need for a specific infrequent use or project. I'm not looking to spend the money on good enough meters, I'm looking to spend it on one-damn-I'm-proud-to-own-this-fine-piece-of-equipment meter, the meter that I wouldn't normally buy for myself if it weren't my birthday and I hadn't saved for it.

I feel like it's kind of like my laptop. I could have gotten away with spending half or less of what I did, but the fact is I use the crap out of my laptop, probably more than any other device I own, and I appreciate on a daily basis every last cent of it, and by the time it gets replaced, I will have for 5 years. Whereas I've had laptops before that were good enough, but just didn't cut it a year later.

[EEVblog]

I agree with the two meter point, but this would be my second meter anyway. The first is an $80 meter - not awesome, but it's consistently gotten the job done. It's definitely enough to cover most of my needs, but there are a few places it just comes up short. The thing is, it's definitely enough to pair with a good meter for something like power measurement. Above all else, I'm looking for two things: I want to be able to functionally ignore accuracy for 99% of my projects (when I see X on the scren, I want to know that X is right to a higher precision than I need to bother with), and I want to know that I'll still be happy with my meter and proud that I own it 10 or 20 years from now.

In that case you are talking a 4 1/2 digit 0.05% basic DC volts class meter or better.
On the 2nd point, I'd say only the Fluke 87 has proven itself in the longevity stakes.
I have never heard anyone regret they bought a Fluke 80 series.

But Fluke, Gossen, or Agilent would all be suitable picks. Gossen is likely out of your price range though.
IMO you get better bang-per-buck with the Agilents, but you could argue the Fluke is a more solid safer choice.

Dave.

[alexwhittemore]

Gossen is likely out of your price range though.

AND I can't figure out how or where to buy them here. Should have looked while I was in Germany.

IMO you get better bang-per-buck with the Agilents, but you could argue the Fluke is a more solid safer choice.

Which is exactly the impasse I'm at. Nobody would ever challenge the Fluke, and I'd always know that if something happened, Fluke would have my back. But is that worth ignoring that the 1271 is a generally better meter, and is probably about as rugged and long lasting?

Edit: The ruggedness thing: it kind of boils down to that sharp pain you feel when your phone hits the ground, like you just poked yourself a little or scraped your knee. I don't think I'd think twice if the Fluke fell, but I want to know before buying if I'd have that gut churn if the Agilent fell. I know the ratings say it'll be fine, but does it make a dull thud or a plasticy rattle when it hits concrete?

I know at least someone knows what I'm talking about.

[PetrosA]

I have a 1272 that I use for electrical work - not a very kind environment for test equipment. So far it's been a very rugged feeling tool that I don't feel I need to worry about breaking easily. It has none of that plasticky feel of a cheap multimeter. If you use it in the field, you'll want a case of some kind, but other than that I'd say it's a safe bet.

[alexwhittemore]

That's pretty comforting. How rubbery is the orange surround? Is it similar to a standard removeable holster? Is it thick padding rubber or more like rubberized plastic?

[PetrosA]

That's pretty comforting. How rubbery is the orange surround? Is it similar to a standard removeable holster? Is it thick padding rubber or more like rubberized plastic?

The orange part is more like a grip enhancement than a shock absorber. I suspect the rounded edges of the case do a lot to deflect impact and the plastic is pretty thick. The meter is large enough that an added rubber holster would probably make it uncomfortable for the average sized hand to hold.

[alexwhittemore]

That's less comforting. Dave, want to review it!? Maybe if we get everyone on the forum to request to Agilent that you do...

[Lawsen]

If you like a bench digital multimeter with 4 wires Ohm sense and 5.5 digital, than do not bother with the Rigol.  The Rigol quality varies from meter to meter.  Go on E Bay and get a HP-3468A for around $250.00.  There is a vendor there that restores them and calibrate them.  The HP-IL loop interface is obsolete.  The Rigol has USB data logging.  If you chose a Rigol multimeter, be sure to check its calibration with a known bench multimeter.  Here is a review of a Rigol multimeter by someone in mainland China that actually experienced the multimeter, unlike us that have never tried it.  I really liked your open mindedness to try new things instead just try Fluke 45 or proven design like HP Alf code name project that created the HP-34401A in Loveland, Colorado, before it became independent from that HP, "invent" slogan.  The Agilent 34401A is a proven bench top multimeter giving 6.5 digits.  It is costly at $600. second hand on E Bay.  Get something practical like Fluke 177, inexpensive and usable.  That is what I use along with my 187, but all of these are discontinued.  How I got an 187?  My old Fluke 8060A broke from old age, no smoke. I traded it in.  Fluke is generous about trade in your broken Fluke for a new one at a discount.  That is what you ought to do to get yourself a Fluke.  

Here is a Chinese translation of the Rigol review, not very happy enthusiastic owner in China.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http://tm.eefocus.com/stupid/blog/08-10/159090_7757f.html&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1

If you chose to buy one, then you will need to check it out carefully, before use.  Rigol is not cheap, the cheapest one I have seen at a Hong Kong store is $199.99, but it is not as good as the HP-3468A.  I cannot afford it in this down turn.  Rigol offers no trade in for a slightly reduced price for a newer model.  You will be stuck with a broken multimeter.  HP, now Agilent does not offers trade in either.  Davy Jones have a video about the HP-3468A and he is right, the price is hard to beat.  The early HP hand held multimeters were quality made Japanese made multimeters by Yokogawa Electric of Japan.  HP rebranded the Yokogawa Electric multimeters as theirs.  When Agilent brand came, they did more design and engineering themselves, hint, organo LED Agilent U1253B in orange case is not as perfect as the Yokogawa designed ones in the 1990s during the dot com boom years.  I never use the data logging features.  I do not use the graphical meters, Scope meters by Philips Fluke or Fluke Graphical multimeters, discontinued with true root mean square of AC voltages around 2 MHz. I do not need them.  

Lawsen

[EEVblog]

AND I can't figure out how or where to buy them here. Should have looked while I was in Germany.

They are rebadged Dranetz BMI in the US
I find I'm reaching for the Gossen over the Fluke on the bench these days, I just really like them.

Which is exactly the impasse I'm at. Nobody would ever challenge the Fluke, and I'd always know that if something happened, Fluke would have my back. But is that worth ignoring that the 1271 is a generally better meter, and is probably about as rugged and long lasting?

Edit: The ruggedness thing: it kind of boils down to that sharp pain you feel when your phone hits the ground, like you just poked yourself a little or scraped your knee. I don't think I'd think twice if the Fluke fell, but I want to know before buying if I'd have that gut churn if the Agilent fell. I know the ratings say it'll be fine, but does it make a dull thud or a plasticy rattle when it hits concrete?

I know at least someone knows what I'm talking about.

I fondled the U1272 for a few minutes at a conference the other week, and it felt nice. On paper is beats the Fluke hands down. 30,000 count dual display, USB interface, data logging, LowZ, 30mV range and other stuff. Battery lie is good.
Tough call.

Dave.

[PetrosA]

That's less comforting. Dave, want to review it!? Maybe if we get everyone on the forum to request to Agilent that you do...

What kind of conditions will you be using the meter in? Some of the latest trends in multimeter invulnerability are cool to watch but are more marketing than fulfilling any real need outside of heavy industrial users (oil rigs, steel mills, quarries, mines etc.). If the conditions are that extreme, you probably won't get more than a few years out of a meter no matter how it's packed before the display is so scratched that you can't read it.

A partial list of typically harsh conditions:

- sub freezing temperatures
- extreme heat (roof, attic space etc.) above 40 C or 104 F
- rain/snow
- quick transfers from sub freezing to warm and humid environment causing condensation
- high levels of airborne gypsum, concrete or other dust
- mud

I've used my Agilents in most of these conditions and they've been fine. Honestly, I'm pretty careful about not dropping either of them from extreme heights since busting a $250 or $370 meter isn't something I want to do. Either one can easily survive a 3 ft. drop.

[EEVblog]

Actually, come to think of it, the Fluke 28-II doesn't cost much more than the 87-V, is practically identical in feature set and performance, offers better battery life, and is insanely well built.

Dave.

[alexwhittemore]

The ruggedization is not a huge draw for me: it's more a nice perk of the 1271 on top of the generally better feature set. The only reason I mention durability is that, if I'm paying so much for a meter now, it needs to last me a VERY long time. It's not uncommon to hear stories from people about how their 20 year old fluke is still front and center on their bench, whereas Agilent's meters don't have that same kind of anecdotal backup (their handheld DMMs anyway, PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong).

The only thing on PetrosA's list of nasties is sub freezing temperatures: there will definitely be times I need it to serve well outside in the dead of winter in northern new england. But the rest of it not so much. The 28-II is definitely not worth the extra $70 to me for its kevlar jacket, even if it's totally sexy.

I really just want to be sure I don't buy a meter that feels to me like I can, with any reasonable effort, break it. I know 100% that the 87-V will be solid as a rock, I just haven't heard enough about the Agilent.

[EEVblog]

The ruggedization is not a huge draw for me: it's more a nice perk of the 1271 on top of the generally better feature set. The only reason I mention durability is that, if I'm paying so much for a meter now, it needs to last me a VERY long time. It's not uncommon to hear stories from people about how their 20 year old fluke is still front and center on their bench, whereas Agilent's meters don't have that same kind of anecdotal backup (their handheld DMMs anyway, PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong).

The Agilent meters don't have a consistent history to be sure.
The current meters come from the Escort group in Malaysia that Agilent bought, whereas the older HP meters were I think Yokagowa.
Escort have always made decent enough stuff.

It's nice to think your meter might still be working in 20 years, but ultimately it's probably pot luck. I have old cheap name meters that have lasted for longer than that. If you switch that Fluke on and off 20 times a day, will the range switch last 20 years?
Flukes fail too, and the 80's series has been plagued with switch and LCD problems, hence spare LCD kits available on ebay etc. Fluke have a good history of keeping spare parts and support though. The Fluke lifetime warranty won't be valid in 20 years time.
Fluke have earned that "mystique" though. Odds are very good an 87 will last a long time.

But it's a $400 meter, not a $4000 meter, so really I think you should probably buy based on what you think you'll need in terms of features. If either fails in 10 years time then so be it.
If you want just a top meter for basic measurements, then the Fluke fits the bill. If you think you might need data logging or some other feature the 87 doesn't have, then you'd have to buy another meter eventually, so maybe the 87 is not such a great choice.

Dave.

[PetrosA]

If sub freezing temperatures are one of your conditions, I would recommend getting opinions specifically regarding that. I have two Flukes - a laser distance measure and an IR temp gun. Both screens look strange in cold weather (wavy discoloration) but the temp gun has backlighting that makes it readable while the distance measure does not and has been difficult to read in cold, low light conditions. I would imagine that an 87-V or 28-II should both have better LCDs and backlighting but it's worth asking about. The only DMM I had that was unusable (except for continuity beep) in cold weather was a Greenlee DM-800. The LCD would basically go blank even above freezing.

[saturation]

I know at least the Fluke 80 series will perform in subzero Celsius without a problem; a simple way to check your DMMs functionality is do some range checks on room temperature, then put your DMM in the refrigerator [ about 40oF] for about an hour +.  Recheck its readouts on the same tests at room temperature.  Now put the DMM in freezer, about OoF, and recheck after an hour.  The Fluke 80 series will not waver, I also used the Fluke series test leads that come with the DMM, or better.

For heat, its a bit more dangerous, but you can put it in an oven, but I am leery and have never done it.  Maybe the incubator that Dave featured would be fine, but a cooking oven can destroy the meter if you don't set it properly.  I've used Flukes in hot summer days past 100F inside a car, and it reads as true as OoF.