How is the new Keysight 1000 x series scope compared with other low cost scopes?

[Fungus]

I just out a few labs in several universities. It seems that 300MHz is the popular bandwidth. The ability to save the data either via a memory card inserted into the scope or via connection to a PC is important as I need to do post-processing to analyze the data and for plotting for reports.

300MHz is about as high as you can go with normal probes.  Universities get massive discounts, I don't think I'd want to buy a 300MHz 'scope with my own money though.

Is it better to get 300MHz just in case? After hacking, what is the max bandwidth for the Rigol DZ1054Z?

You don't need anything like 300Mhz for the things you've mentioned.

A Rigol's bandwidth after hacking is 100MHz (although it's more like 130MHz in practice). Plenty for what you want to do.

Do the other two scopes have problem with discontinuity like the one described at 5:53 in the video?

They don't have a built-in function generator, so, "no". :-)

(nb. This also means they don't do bode plots)

[TK]

(nb. This also means they don't do bode plots)

I would like to add that not all the scopes with built-in function generator does bode plot, not even keysight 2000X with function generator does bode plot currently, only 1000X AFAIK

[GlowingGhoul]

The 1000X probes are a total non-issue. If you don't like them then throw them away and spend $30-$40 to buy new ones. Personally I never use the probes which come with a scope anyway. I have a whole bunch (10 or so) of identical probes from Testec.

Even if it is cheap to replace the probes, it's a matter of principle:
One is not supposed to replace the probes of a brand new oscilloscope up front.

And if decent quality probes are really so cheap, how come Keysight has choosen to deliver the 1000X with the most crappiest probes on Earth?

Current product management at Keysight in a nutshell:

Lack of quality control.
Lack of responsibility.
Lack of accountability.
Lack of respect.
No long-term vision.
Key-sightless.

Do you own any Keysight scope?  You seems to be more concerned than the actual owners of 1000X scopes.

What you are basically hearing is the whining of a Keysight hater.  A fan boy of brands, which by most measures, are considered inferior by the majority of professional users. Take his uninformed, terribly biased criticism with an enormous pinch of salt.

The overarching advantage of Keysight are things not readily expressed in spec sheets. Responsiveness of the UI is second to none in this price range (and at much higher price points as well), construction as experienced through things like quality rotary encoders, and support is excellent as well, should you ever need it. If you're going to get something other than the Keysight, do yourself a favor and DO NOT try it out. You'll remain forever frustrated with the overall unpolished nature of the scopes competing in this range.

[FlyingHacker]

I own the DSOX1102G (100MHz wis the wave gen). No issues whatsoever with probe compensation drifting in regular day to day use. This is an overblown and/or isolated issue. I also have plenty of other quality Tek probes to choose from, but have not felt the need.

Very fast, responsive UI.

Excellent firmware.

Excellent help system.

Built in training signals are helpful to learn the scope.

No crashes.

No bugs.

Built in wave gen is very useful and has built in triggering.

I wish there was a faster way to choose the trigger source. I am used to switches on analog scopes.

As mentioned Bode plot needs improvement.

MegaZoom is very nice and easy to use.

My fan is pretty darned quiet.

Excellent customer service with Daniel around here to help solve issues.

Smells like that new electronics smell. Like it *really* smells like that new electronics smell.

Wish it had some sort of probe holder clips rather than a handle, would be more useful.

Overall winner, winner, chicken dinner.

[pascal_sweden]

I own the DSOX1102G (100MHz wis the wave gen). No issues whatsoever with probe compensation drifting in regular day to day use. This is an overblown and/or isolated issue. I also have plenty of other quality Tek probes to choose from, but have not felt the need.

"Happy Keysight user that has no clue whatsoever about the inferior quality of the probes that are delivered with the 1000X series".

This is definitely not an overblown and/or isolated issue!

Did you look at the pictures of the probes inside?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-keysight-scope-1st-march-2017/msg1220323/#msg1220323

Imagine that all the signal measurements in your fancy lab experiments on your new smelling scope have to pass through that ugly wire!

These pictures confirm black on white, that Keysight has choosen to deliver the 1000X with the most crappiest probes on Earth.

[nctnico]

The overarching advantage of Keysight are things not readily expressed in spec sheets. Responsiveness of the UI is second to none in this price range (and at much higher price points as well), construction as experienced through things like quality rotary encoders, and support is excellent as well, should you ever need it. If you're going to get something other than the Keysight, do yourself a favor and DO NOT try it out. You'll remain forever frustrated with the overall unpolished nature of the scopes competing in this range.

Now you are sugar coating things. I sold my Agilent DSO7104A and kept the GW Instek GDS2204E because amongst other things the latter is easier to use.

[mikeselectricstuff]

I own the DSOX1102G (100MHz wis the wave gen). No issues whatsoever with probe compensation drifting in regular day to day use. This is an overblown and/or isolated issue. I also have plenty of other quality Tek probes to choose from, but have not felt the need.

"Happy Keysight user that has no clue whatsoever about the inferior quality of the probes that are delivered with the 1000X series".

..so get some other probes. Cheap scopes are always shipped with cheap probes. You're not forced to use them. I've almost never used a scope with the probes it came with.

[ebclr]

"Happy Keysight user that has no clue whatsoever about the inferior quality of the probes that are delivered with the 1000X series".

Do you really believe that is only the probes?

[pascal_sweden]

Do you really believe that is only the probes?

You are probably right! Most likely they have cut corners on the hardware inside as well.

[fishandchips]

I am just looking for a general scope for use in projects in electronic/mechanical/control/mechatronic engineering at university level. Possible uses include checking the response of filter and sensor circuits, checking the outputs of motor controllers to see what signals are sent to the motors, checking if the receiver of a remote controller is receiving the same signals as signals sent from the sender, measuring the power consumption and current of the motors, etc.

I just out a few labs in several universities. It seems that 300MHz is the popular bandwidth. The ability to save the data either via a memory card inserted into the scope or via connection to a PC is important as I need to do post-processing to analyze the data and for plotting for reports.

Is it better to get 300MHz just in case? After hacking, what is the max bandwidth for the Rigol DZ1054Z?

Do the other two scopes have problem with discontinuity like the one described at 5:53 in the video?

Regardless to the number of channels and cost, how do you rank the Keysight DSOX1102G 100 MHz, GW Instek GDS-2204E and the Rigol DS1054Z (I will probably hack it) in order of suitability to the usages described above? Of course, being able to measure things accurately is the 1st priority. This is  followed by nice and smooth GUI (don't like the lags in responsiveness). The ability to store data is also important.

[Fred27]

Has anyone apart from pascal_sweden had problems with the Keysight probes? Mine seem fine. It might seem like a common issue, but you'll find the hundreds of comments about it are from just one person.

[mikeselectricstuff]

"Happy Keysight user that has no clue whatsoever about the inferior quality of the probes that are delivered with the 1000X series".

Do you really believe that is only the probes?

Any evidence to the contrary?

[Fungus]

Regardless to the number of channels and cost

"Regardless of cost"? How does that work?

Do you also compare things like cars on that basis?

, how do you rank the Keysight DSOX1102G 100 MHz, GW Instek GDS-2204E and the Rigol DS1054Z (I will probably hack it) in order of suitability to the usages described above?

All will do it...

Of course, being able to measure things accurately is the 1st priority. This is  followed by nice and smooth GUI (don't like the lags in responsiveness). The ability to store data is also important.

...but the Keysight/Instek will cost you double/triple money to get a bit better UI response.

Your call.

(And if cost isn't an issue, why stop there? Why are you looking at toy oscilloscopes like these?)

[ebastler]

Regardless to the number of channels and cost, how do you rank the Keysight DSOX1102G 100 MHz, GW Instek GDS-2204E and the Rigol DS1054Z (I will probably hack it) in order of suitability to the usages described above?

If you disregard the items where the KeySight is at a disadvantage (namely channels and cost), the KeySight -- surprise! -- looks quite good in this comparison. 

It seems like you are already "emotionally invested" in the KeySight. So if what you expect from this thread is confirmation that buying the KeySight is fine, then by all means go ahead and buy it. It is a nice scope, and you have just redefined your criteria to exclude the items that might raise doubts.

[GlowingGhoul]

Regardless to the number of channels and cost, how do you rank the Keysight DSOX1102G 100 MHz, GW Instek GDS-2204E and the Rigol DS1054Z (I will probably hack it) in order of suitability to the usages described above?

If you disregard the items where the KeySight is at a disadvantage (namely channels and cost), the KeySight -- surprise! -- looks quite good in this comparison. 

It seems like you are already "emotionally invested" in the KeySight. So if what you expect from this thread is confirmation that buying the KeySight is fine, then by all means go ahead and buy it. It is a nice scope, and you have just redefined your criteria to exclude the items that might raise doubts.

The "emotional investment" is clearly on the side of the perpetual Keysight bashers. No evidence needed, they "just know" that terrible compromises have been made at the board level, for sure. We don't need any evidence.Yes, Keysight gear will always be at a premium over its Chinese knockoff competitors, like any company that provides decent support and a good user experience.

There's really no difference between this and the angry defenders of bargain priced cell phones or cheap cars. The value segment has its merits, but I've become intolerant of crap companies and their ameteur hour support systems and attention to things not appearing on spec sheets, like the UI experience.

[nctnico]

Regardless to the number of channels and cost, how do you rank the Keysight DSOX1102G 100 MHz, GW Instek GDS-2204E and the Rigol DS1054Z (I will probably hack it) in order of suitability to the usages described above? Of course, being able to measure things accurately is the 1st priority. This is  followed by nice and smooth GUI (don't like the lags in responsiveness). The ability to store data is also important.

Can you elaborate on what kind of data you want to store and how you want to process it? I think your first concern should be memory depth. How much data do you need to collect? Then come things like connectivity (LAN, USB or local storage) and the transfer speed you need.

[ebastler]

If you disregard the items where the KeySight is at a disadvantage (namely channels and cost), the KeySight -- surprise! -- looks quite good in this comparison. 

It seems like you are already "emotionally invested" in the KeySight. So if what you expect from this thread is confirmation that buying the KeySight is fine, then by all means go ahead and buy it. It is a nice scope, and you have just redefined your criteria to exclude the items that might raise doubts.

The "emotional investment" is clearly on the side of the perpetual Keysight bashers. [...]

Have you actually read my post, GlowingGhoul? It was not that long...

I found it a bit amusing that fishandchips, in his most recent post, defined a set of assessment criteria which seem to specifically exclude those areas where competing scopes have advantages. Hence, my slightly tongue-in-cheek comment. But I actually assume that fishandchips has aready made up his mind -- he seems to value the usability higher than those other aspects, hence favors the Keysight. (Which clearly has advantages in usability, UI responsiveness etc.)

No "bashing" in that comment; and I do not want to be associated with any "perpetual Keysight bashers", thank you very much.

[Fungus]

It seems like you are already "emotionally invested" in the KeySight. So if what you expect from this thread is confirmation that buying the KeySight is fine, then by all means go ahead and buy it. It is a nice scope.

The "emotional investment" is clearly on the side of the perpetual Keysight bashers.

.... I've become intolerant of crap companies and their ameteur hour support systems and attention to things not appearing on spec sheets, like the UI experience.

You didn't actually read the post you quoted before going all ballistic, did you? 

[serggio]

Topicstarter, just go to Amazone and buy any scope that like you.... one month you thinking....
Ready to wait tons updates and still have bugs? Buy Chinese scope.
Just want to use it and enjoy it? Buy Keysight

[FlyingHacker]

I own the DSOX1102G (100MHz wis the wave gen). No issues whatsoever with probe compensation drifting in regular day to day use. This is an overblown and/or isolated issue. I also have plenty of other quality Tek probes to choose from, but have not felt the need.

"Happy Keysight user that has no clue whatsoever about the inferior quality of the probes that are delivered with the 1000X series".

Wow! Ad hominem attacks calling me clueless? You, sir, have likely never even touched one of these scopes. You do not own one. You seem to have some vendetta against Keysight. That is your prerogative. But do not insult me and claim to have any clue about my knowledge about the quality of a product I actually own and use.

Please state for the record if you own one of these scopes. You have been avoiding this question for five pages of posts.

Please state for the record if you personally have ever even touched one of these 1000 series scopes. All you have done is linked other threads.

If you do not answer these questions I can't see how anyone can take you seriously with hearsay "evidence." Your relevance to the conversation is pretty much nil if you have no experience with the product. I think it is clear to everyone else that someone who does not own and use a product must be clueless about that product. I *am* likely clueless about whatever brand of cheap scope of which you are an acolyte (unless it is Tek).

I get that fanbois will be fanbois, but there is no need to insult people here. Take that to other forums. I understand the quality of the probes. As I stated previously I own multiple high quality Tek probes. Do I think the probes that came with the scope are high quality? No. They are adequate quality for most uses. Would I take free high end replacement probes from Keysight? Who wouldn't. I understand that scopes that are less than a grand or two USD are low end scopes. I don't expect perfection from them.

I stated that in day to day measurements I am not having any issues with drift of the probe compensation. That is true. Perhaps my lab has more stable temperature than yours. Perhaps you technique is somehow flawed. Perhaps mine is.

But take your insults elsewhere, and please disclaim your comments with your lack experience with the product in question. This is a very common issue online, where people come in a repeat things they hear about brand X or product Y, often lacking a grasp of those products due to an utter lack of experience with said product. These "me too" parrot like postings are not useful to anyone. To your credit you did link the source of you parrot posting in at least one case. Please don't claim to be an authority on a product you have likely never touched. I own this scope. I use it most days. I own other scopes as well, and pick the right scope for the job to the best of my ability.

I am not a Keysight fanboy. I own two Keysight products (lots of older HP stuff). The scope is very good for the money. It is a joy to use for anyone coming from zero-lag analog scopes. The Rigols and such are just too sluggish. They drive me nuts. If you are used to slow electronics, where turning a knob has a delay before you see anything then it might be fine for you. If you are the kind of person who likes how there is a huge delay before it takes a picture when you press the button on your camera phone then you may like it. If you are used to the instant picture when you press the button like on a pro SLR then get the Keysight. Note: I have not used a Rigol every day, only demoed one for a couple of days. So you must discount my opinions on Rigol.

[Fungus]

Topicstarter, just go to Amazone and buy any scope that like you.... one month you thinking....
Ready to wait tons updates and still have bugs? Buy Chinese scope.
Just want to use it and enjoy it? Buy Keysight

...and pay twice (or three times) the price. For less channels.

nb. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, I'm just pointing out the elephant in the room.

[serggio]

Topicstarter, just go to Amazone and buy any scope that like you.... one month you thinking....
Ready to wait tons updates and still have bugs? Buy Chinese scope.
Just want to use it and enjoy it? Buy Keysight

...and pay twice (or three times) the price. For less channels.

nb. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, I'm just pointing out the elephant in the room.

If he considering two channels scope, that this is enough for him task. If him need more analog channels simultaneously, that Keysight out of game for this budget

[FlyingHacker]

The lack of four channels can be an issue. I just cascade to other scopes to see a lot of waveforms at once.

Note that if you get the wave gen option then you can trigger off the wave gen internally and still see the external trigger "pseudo-channel" along with the other two real channels. So you do not have to use up the trigger channel just to get a sync to your waveform source.

[Fungus]

The lack of four channels can be an issue. I just cascade to other scopes to see a lot of waveforms at once.

Two Keysights is better than one! You can never have enough Keysights! 

(and if you have no bread you can simply eat cake instead!)

[pascal_sweden]

Please state for the record if you own one of these scopes. You have been avoiding this question for five pages of posts.

Please state for the record if you personally have ever even touched one of these 1000 series scopes. All you have done is linked other threads.

I don't own a Keysight 1000X scope, and neither have touched it. I have worked over many years with many different scopes though at the university (both analog and digital, Keysight, Tektronix, Hameg, Rigol, etc.).

I don't see the need for owning one personally, given the detailed pictures available of the probe insights, and the detailed reports on the drift issue.

Why I am pushing so hard for getting a resolution on this probe compensation drift issue:
The issue has been reported since April 28th, and Keysight has even acknowledged that they managed to reproduce the issue. But after they haven't provided any updates. We are now more than 6 weeks further, and still no resolution. It almost looks like they have dropped the investigation.

You Keysight fanboys keep bragging about the excellent support from Keysight. Where is that excellent support from your favorite A-brand now? They haven't put any focus on this issue to come up with a resolution, after they acknowledged the issue. More than 6 weeks lead-times is not what one expects from an A-brand. Or what do you Keysight fanboys understand under "good support from Keysight"?
Please elaborate on this!

Pictures have been provided about concerns of the quality of the probe. Keysight has deliberately choosen not to answer on this. They are just ignoring the question.

Now a question back to you: Have you looked at the pictures of the probe insights? Really? Hard to believe! Low quality probe is even an understatement if you look at the picture.

Both Keysight and Keysight fanboys are all hypocrites IMO. Living in their own world, and denying that it is COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE to deliver such a crappy probes. Even a 10 year old kid would agree on that.