how much sould a hobbiest spend on a multimeter

[paulie]

The problem is most internet gurus have long lost ability to make judgments regarding average beginner hobbyist. More importantly the noobs do not realize this and gladly tramp down that primrose path. Things like $10 fuses, bar graphs, 5 digit resolution are really of limited use for most beginners (and many professionals too).

For my hobby and limited semi-professional work $15 UT136B with very accurate and sensitive AC, 10mhz frequency, high resolution capacitance, and very responsive beeper has no competition. A fraction the size and much more convenient than my Fluke gathering dust on the shelf.

To be honest however it's the $5 DT830D meters scattered around that get most use. Even smaller than the UTI but also fast and loud continuity. Signal generator feature a much used bonus. The fact I could get 3 for the cost of the UTI also a plus. Or a hundred for cost of one Fluke should the notion take. For now half dozen will do.

Everybody has their own idea what's best. And try to push it in these threads. For some the more expensive the better regardless of true value or features. It is amusing to see row after row of thousand dollar lab grade instruments in the background but rarely any point. Kinda like vintage with those crazy poor specs but if that's your thing...

[ProBang2]

Hello.

i loved the transistor tester that came with the uni-t ut61e

I have an UT61E. Let me assure you: The UT61E with the adaptor is not able to test a transistor.
(Only the UT61A can do this!) The adaptor is only sometimes useful for checking of capacitors.

[eas]

I started with a 139c. Then I decided I wanted something with data logging and more digits, so I bought a used Keithley 2000 bench DMM. Then I bought 5 of those cheap DMMs for $10 that I could get for free if I could be bothered to collect coupons and go to Harbor Freight more often. Then I bought two more used Keithley 2000s.

I have one of the cheap DMMs on my desk, one in my day pack, and one will go in the car. I find myself reaching for the cheapie more often than the 139c because the leads are shorter and take less time to wind/unwind when I just want to do some quick checks of battery voltage, or whether there is voltage (<20v) on a given pin. Still glad I have the 139c.

As for the K2000s, they are a project in and of themselves and I'll probably sell one or two of them off once I finish studying/fixing them and put them to their intended use.

I'd get the 139c, or even something cheaper until you have specific needs they can't address. Don't spend extra money based on what you think you'll need when you don't have much experience to go on.

[Lightages]

The problem is most internet gurus have long lost ability to make judgments regarding average beginner hobbyist. More importantly the noobs do not realize this and gladly tramp down that primrose path. Things like $10 fuses, bar graphs, 5 digit resolution are really of limited use for most beginners (and many professionals too).

For my hobby and limited semi-professional work $15 UT136B with very accurate and sensitive AC, 10mhz frequency, high resolution capacitance, and very responsive beeper has no competition. A fraction the size and much more convenient than my Fluke gathering dust on the shelf.

To be honest however it's the $5 DT830D meters scattered around that get most use. Even smaller than the UTI but also fast and loud continuity. Signal generator feature a much used bonus. The fact I could get 3 for the cost of the UTI also a plus. Or a hundred for cost of one Fluke should the notion take. For now half dozen will do.

Everybody has their own idea what's best. And try to push it in these threads. For some the more expensive the better regardless of true value or features. It is amusing to see row after row of thousand dollar lab grade instruments in the background but rarely any point. Kinda like vintage with those crazy poor specs but if that's your thing...

I actually did a review on the UT136B and would recommend it for a simple meter for the bench, meaning low energy and low voltage. This recommendation is if you can't afford more. The "830" cheap free or $5 meters will fail, and will give you false readings when you don't know it. Why frustrate yourself with not knowing if you are actually reading the right value?

Bar graphs are handy, but as I said no big deal. The problem with having cheap meters with improper fuses and input protection is that the user might just be tempted to use it "just once" and when that didn't harm them they will use it again until they get into complacency. If you have the money, buy something safe and good quality. No one ever complained they got purchased something that was too good in quality.

So I have recommended $20 meters, $50 meters, $100 meters..... all to the budget of the inquirer. How can that be be elitist?

[Rasz]

but when do i get my money back ?
i've sent the seller a photo of the multimeter not working and shipped it to him and gave him a tracking number
he now says that he can't track the number and want a website
do i get my money before the seller gets his item back ?

step 1 you open a paypal dispute

[Muxr]

but when do i get my money back ?
i've sent the seller a photo of the multimeter not working and shipped it to him and gave him a tracking number
he now says that he can't track the number and want a website
do i get my money before the seller gets his item back ?

step 1 you open a paypal dispute

Paypal requires you to have a "paper trail" of wanting to resolve the dispute with the seller first before they process the dispute. So step one is to go through the Ebay feedback system.

[paulie]

No. Step one you contact the seller via message and politely ask for assistance. Rarely necessary to open a case. Ebay buyer protection is next and hardly ever fails. From experience with couple hundred "not as described" out of 3k transactions. Paypal is last resort.

[paulie]

I have recommended $20 meters, $50 meters, $100 meters..... all to the budget of the inquirer. How can that be be elitist?

Not every internet "expert" deserves elitist label (only 99.999%. LOL). Just like not everybody with stacks of thousand dollar lab grade is foolish (just 99.999%. LOL). For example Dave Jones makes a living on reviews and teardowns. And many dealers are justified. Some of these guys though....

The "830" cheap free or $5 meters will fail, and will give you false readings when you don't know it.

Out of couple hundred (no exaggeration) HF freebies starting with the black ones 15 years ago Ive never had a DOA except rare missing display segment. Always fixed by reseating the elastomer strip. And my original yellow one is still cranking away after more than 10 years of daily use. Can't say the same for Ebay version with beeper and sig gen. Out of 6 purchased 2 unrepairable failures but seller quickly replaced with credible photo evidence. However it was worth it for those two additional features.

ps. I must say the UT136B is in a different class regarding build quality and safety and well worth the extra $10.

pps. I forgot to mention the auto-off was a wonderful improvement too.

[Muxr]

No. Step one you contact the seller via message and politely ask for assistance. Rarely necessary to open a case. Ebay buyer protection is next and hardly ever fails. From experience with couple hundred "not as described" out of 3k transactions. Paypal is last resort.

Well from the sounds of it he's already done that part (contacting the seller).

[paulie]

Key word "polite". The importance cannot be stressed. Chinese culture is different and they will write you off with slightest hint of insult or offense. A little buttering up goes a long ways. Same when opening a case. Ebay staff appreciates civil behavior. I am a completely different persona compared to internet forums. LOL

[Muxr]

Yeah politeness goes a long way, there is no point in getting rude, the system is in place that handles it for you. I had an experience with a seller on Ebay once. I ordered an old vintage film camera. When I got it, it turned out to be a completely different model and a brand from what I ordered.

I left the negative feedback and went on with my business (wrong item). Through the ebay system he messaged me and offered to refund me without even requiring me to send the camera back, under the condition that I revise the feedback, this is all through the ebay system, like that was the condition enforced by the system.

See the thing is, any negative feedback, increases the Ebay's cut % on a sale of each item, which means less money for the seller. So sellers who do a lot of volume get really dinged if they have negative feedback.

I agreed and set his review to 5 stars, he issued a refund and everyone was happy.

[joeqsmith]

I don't think I have ever paid over $20 for a hand held meter.   I have an old DM-301 that I bought from Sears that was made in Korea.  Other than I cracked the LCD, it still works fine.    I have two really cheap Harbor Freight CEN-TECH meters that were under $10 each.  They will measure frequency, temperature, capacitance and have a transistor tester.   

[hamster_nz]

I don't think I have ever paid over $20 for a hand held meter.   I have an old DM-301 that I bought from Sears that was made in Korea.  Other than I cracked the LCD, it still works fine.    I have two really cheap Harbor Freight CEN-TECH meters that were under $10 each.  They will measure frequency, temperature, capacitance and have a transistor tester.   

Don't say that Joe! you will attract the angry hoards with their pitchforks and silver bullets... After all you must be one of the living dead if you have actually used a meter that features a transistor hfe tester. :-)

I have found that a standard $30 Jaycar meters work just fine for hobby needs....  And. a fool can hurt themselves with an expensive meter just as quickly as they can with a cheap one.

Keep one hand in a pocket at all times while anywhere near anything over 30V is my rule of thumb.

[ayman.break]

well today the seller just gave me my payment back but he didn't pay me for shipping but its written that seller pays return shipping
but now im heading for the uni-t 139 and maybe an other ut136d
but what about the brymen
do you think i need it ?
if i can use it and it will help me alot more than the uni-t
i'll get it
but i don't want to pay more than double on something i wont even need
thank you

[paulie]

Yikes! Common sense rears it's ugly head! You guys are no fun at all. I need to find another forum where waste and excess prevail !!!

Before grabbing a deal on the UT136b I did have that UT61e on my watch list for several weeks because of its datalog ability. Quite a bargain at $50 for features like that and the 5 digit precision. Probably would have one now if the serial protocol details were available. Also those $5 Ebay 5 digit panels meters seemed to fit my particular higher resolution applications ( https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/$5-voltmeter-with-5-digit-%280-1mv%29-resolution/ ).

[Muxr]

You can definitely go cheap, and you will be fine for hobby use. But if build quality, features and protection are something you care about, then you'll have to spend some money.

I have the UT-61E an Amprobe 37XR-A and a Fluke 87-V (also have a Fluke 8842A bench meter). The Fluke 87-V is definitely the king of my meters in every aspect. If I never had to do any mains, I would be fine with UT-61E however. It's a good meter.

The only issue with it is, it doesn't give me the confidence when it comes to protection. I do still use it though, it uses very little battery power for measurements. So it's a perfect meter to just keep an eye on something for a long time for example. Also it's a bit smaller than the other meters so it takes less room on the bench, and so I like it as a 2nd meter when I am measuring multiple points.

Like Dave said, I would get 2 meters, get a cheaper one and something with some decent protection. Perhaps one of the UNI-Ts and a Brymen when you can afford it.

[Rasz]

but when do i get my money back ?
i've sent the seller a photo of the multimeter not working and shipped it to him and gave him a tracking number
he now says that he can't track the number and want a website
do i get my money before the seller gets his item back ?

step 1 you open a paypal dispute

Paypal requires you to have a "paper trail" of wanting to resolve the dispute with the seller first before they process the dispute. So step one is to go through the Ebay feedback system.

no they dont. You open paypal dispute and state "broken on arrival, selled unwilling to return money". Its that simple. If you are a really nice person/sucker you can start with Ebay dispute first, but NO private messages and talking behind ebays back, all it does is waste money and moves you outside dispute time window.

[Rasz]

Code: [Select]

[url=https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/]https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/[/url]$5-voltmeter-with-5-digit-%280-1mv%29-resolution/ ).

broken link

[paulie]

Link is not broken, Eevblog website is broken. '$' not allowed as 1st character in title. It works if you cut and paste the line into your browser. Also google "5 dollar digit voltmeter" gets you right there.

Note to self: $ good in pocket, not good for Eevblog thread title.

Regarding Ebay problems you are not on top of that.

[miguelvp]

Link is not broken, Eevblog website is broken. '$' not allowed as 1st character in title. It works if you cut and paste the line into your browser. Also google "5 dollar digit voltmeter" gets you right there.

Note to self: $ good in pocket, not good for Eevblog thread title.

Or you could just place the url endpoints yourself instead of letting the forum figure it out.

Code: [Select]

[url]https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/$5-voltmeter-with-5-digit-%280-1mv%29-resolution/[/url]
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/$5-voltmeter-with-5-digit-%280-1mv%29-resolution/

[paulie]

Or you could just place the url endpoints yourself instead of letting the forum figure it out.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/$5-voltmeter-with-5-digit-%280-1mv%29-resolution/

But that is so much WORK !!!!

Seriously though, you are right. I tend not to notice my mistake until somebody like Rasz brings it up. Thanks guys.

I would get 2 meters, get a cheaper one and something with some decent protection.

I agree with the 2 meter strategy. An expensive "safe" one to collect dust on the shelf and maybe take down once in a while  to make videos and impress noobs. Possible tax write-off too.  Then a cheap one to actually use for measuring and debugging.

[Fungus]

It's pointless to spend $50 on a multimeter IMHO. It's a price range that just doesn't make much sense.

Think: If somebody here was advising a newbie to buy a $200 Chinese oscilloscope you'd all be shouting "don't do it!!!" Why is a $50 multimeter any different?

A $50 meter won't measure any better than a $15 meter and it's probably not built well enough that anybody here will put their hand on their heart and declare it "safe for mains use".

Either spend $15 on a multimeter and stay away from mains sockets or go over $100 where meters start to fall into the "safe" category.

And as Dave says, two cheap meters is more useful than one expensive meter.


PS: I don't understand the fascination with poking multimeter probes into mains sockets. Mains AC is never going to have a wrong value ("That's weird, it says 160 Volts when it should be 240..."), all you need to know is whether the voltage is there or not. There's cheap, safe non-contact gadgets for that. Even the Fluke branded ones are under $20.

(Yes, I'm sure somebody here can justify using a multimeter for mains work but it won't be a general-use scenario...)

[Lightages]

If you never have a problem with a $5 meter, then you have good luck. So you say the cheapest you can get or over $100. Anything in between is a waste of money? Many people have reported that their "830" style meter has read completely wrong. It would be a bad thing if you measured a supply voltage that at 5V and that is what your device needs and then find out you just fried your $50 project because it really was 12V. It is not just about the safety of the user but also being confident in your measurements.

I would have no problems telling someone they can use a UT139C on mains in the house. This could be when you want to check the voltages going to the inside of appliances for example. There are many paces to measure mains voltages and energies that are not just sticking the probes in the wall socket.  I have a solar system and its "mains" could be wrong if something starts to fail, as another example.

Buy cheap if you want but know the limitations of buying cheap and what the consequences are. A $50 meter maybe won't measure better than a $15 meter when new, but what about in two years, or when you drop it too many times, or when the contacts start to wear, etc... I am sorry, but asserting that a $15 is going to be just as good as any $50 meter is not logical.

Is it not better to buy something you can trust once, instead of buying junk over and over and over?

The answer to the OP's question is:

Spend what you can afford to get a quality instrument. If you are going to never poke the probes in anything close to mains, then a $15 UT136B is a good buy. You want to spend the minimum and have a a good safe meter for almost anything a home hobbyist might want to measure, then the UT139C is a good buy at $50. There are probably other meters in these price ranges that I would be happy to recommend for the same uses. Anything less and you start to get into some pretty questionable quality. Sure I would like it if everyone would purchase a Fluke 17B, or a Brymen BM257s, or an Amprobe AM270. Something like these is guaranteed to be as safe as anyone would need for any kind of home use. The other meters are fine though for their recommended use. Cheaper is just asking for some kind of problem.

[Electro Fan]

Ditto what Fungus said -

One good meter and then 1 or more inexpensive meters.

I have a few of these or similar models (some were about $15):

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B007ZL0K3E/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1432451707&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SY200_QL40&keywords=radio+shack+multimeter&dpPl=1&dpID=41t6%2Bp54tjL&ref=plSrch#immersive-view_1432451801708

They measure DC amps and volts generally within a few thousandths of what my Fluke reads.

For AC use a good meter or the Fluke tester device Fungus linked to if you really need to probe an AC outlet.

[slurry]

If you never have a problem with a $5 meter, then you have good luck. So you say the cheapest you can get or over $100. Anything in between is a waste of money? Many people have reported that their "830" style meter has read completely wrong. It would be a bad thing if you measured a supply voltage that at 5V and that is what your device needs and then find out you just fried your $50 project because it really was 12V. It is not just about the safety of the user but also being confident in your measurements.

I would have no problems telling someone they can use a UT139C on mains in the house. This could be when you want to check the voltages going to the inside of appliances for example. There are many paces to measure mains voltages and energies that are not just sticking the probes in the wall socket.  I have a solar system and its "mains" could be wrong if something starts to fail, as another example.

Buy cheap if you want but know the limitations of buying cheap and what the consequences are. A $50 meter maybe won't measure better than a $15 meter when new, but what about in two years, or when you drop it too many times, or when the contacts start to wear, etc... I am sorry, but asserting that a $15 is going to be just as good as any $50 meter is not logical.

Is it not better to buy something you can trust once, instead of buying junk over and over and over?

The answer to the OP's question is:

Spend what you can afford to get a quality instrument. If you are going to never poke the probes in anything close to mains, then a $15 UT136B is a good buy. You want to spend the minimum and have a a good safe meter for almost anything a home hobbyist might want to measure, then the UT139C is a good buy at $50. There are probably other meters in these price ranges that I would be happy to recommend for the same uses. Anything less and you start to get into some pretty questionable quality. Sure I would like it if everyone would purchase a Fluke 17B, or a Brymen BM257s, or an Amprobe AM270. Something like these is guaranteed to be as safe as anyone would need for any kind of home use. The other meters are fine though for their recommended use. Cheaper is just asking for some kind of problem.

$50 is what a good quality set of probes costs 

I aquired a UT-61E just for fun,
the first thing i noticed was that it showed 0,5V off at 5VDC, the second thing that i noticed was that it could not measure AC when there was DC present.
I have a Fluke 289 that have seen some hard use, it never fails, not in any point.
A Fluke 289 is way too expensive for most hobbyist that mostly checks connections, measure resistors and checks if the 9V battery is ok or not.

As many hobbyist rarely measures current the simplest Fluke 101 would suffice and be more trustable than a cheap no-name meter with crappy probes.

When you buy a cheap multimeter or tool or whatever you must be aware that there is limitations, in the multimeter case you should not fully trust it, especially not for measuring mains.

You should not fully trust the probes either, cheap flimsy probes are cheap for a reason, i does not take much imagination to realize what can happen when the meter says that there is no voltage in the power outlet, are you absolutely positive that there is no voltage? can you trust the multimeter? can you trust the probes?

At work i always replace my collegues multimeter probes when thay leave it for the yearly calibration service, at first many thinks it is absolutely unnecessary as their probes works just fine.
But after a year of hard work when stretched, stepped on and coiled countless turns around the meter i would say that they are worn enough not to be trusted anymore,
therefore i just replace them, at least a new set of probes are cheaper than a human life, a lot cheaper.