How to tell if the equpiment is brand new or floor model?

[fishandchips]

Hello, I bought an oscilloscope and a function generator many many years ago from a store in Canada. That store is selling equipment from different brands. They are a dealer/distributor of some brands including GW Instek. I recall that I went to the store, the guy sold me an oscilloscope and a function generator with label of his company on them. I think the boxes were opened. Not sure if they were demo models. I think he mentioned that the company needed to calibrate the equipment before selling locally, etc. Is it a good idea to buy from this kind of store? Is it better to buy through Amazon or from the manufacturer directly?

[frozenfrogz]

Why bother if it was unpacked before? If it works and looks brand new there is no difference to one that came straight from a warehouse.
A lot of local shops put their sticker on the devices they sell, so they can tell if it was indeed sold by them, even if you bought it ten years ago.
Buying at a local dealer comes with a lot of benefits in my opinion:

• The seller checked the device for you beforehand and confirms that you get a fully working unit.
• In case of any issues you have someone to talk to directly. You do not need to struggle with tech support on the phone. You take your device to the shop and you will be taken care of.
• In case your device fails after the manufacturers warranty a lot of local shops will offer you some kind of service. Either get the device fixed for a reasonable rate, or offer you a good deal on an new device - because the local seller wants you to be a happy customer.

Building a personal relationship will give the seller a recurring customer and you will benefit from the service the seller offers. Maybe one day you desperately need to source very special parts in low quantity, but you would need to order 25.000 on your own and your local dealer manages to somehow acquire the 20 parts you actually need

[fishandchips]

If purchase directly from the manufacturer or from Amazon sold by the manufacturer, I get the latest version both hardware and software wise. Am I right? This might be good because manufacturer might change some internal electronic components for better ones. If I buy from a local store or via Amazon sold by other companies, I may get older version.

I recall that the company where I bought the equipment recommended an analog scope. It did not suite me. I returned to the store the next day. They recommended a digital scope four times the cost and also charged me a restocking fee. I think it was about 25%.

Last year I asked them if I could do bring a small motor to the shop to use their equipment to do some quick testings. It is such a simple request from a long time customer but no reply from them. Around that time, the GM-Instek scopes were on sale. They quoted me a higher price. Then, I pointed them to their own website about the lower cost.

That is one of the reasons I hesitate to buy the GM-2204E as I will be stuck with them.

[SeanB]

Stores often test stock, especially on high priced items that are both a big inventory sitting there, along with wanting to sell working units. They also often will include a local power cord for those that come with a non compatible lead ( like you buy a unit with a IEC power lead that is UK pattern but you live in a country where the lead is Schuko or Aus or US pattern), and often will include things that might not be standard for some items, like accessory kits, a soft case or even better leads than the supplied ones. The test is just so they know with some certainty the unit when sold was complete, powered on and passed basic function checks. Thus you get a pack that has been opened and resealed with the dealer tape.

Generally places will sell you demo stock, returned and tested equipment and display stock at a discount, as this has been used and no longer fits the definition as in law of "new". This should be reflected in the sale and the price.

Like a demo model car, which might have sat on the showroom floor for 3 months but which can be classed as "new", or which might have had 100km put on the clock during the normal new car delivery kilometers ( a new car can still arrive with a few hundred kilometers on the clock, from being delivered to the dealership/s and to the customer, though a new car is also only registered to the dealership/s only, never a customer registration and return, those are defined as used vehicles, even if it has no extra kilometers on the clock) but is still covered by the full warranty from manufacturer and dealership.

I have gotten some nice stuff at a very good discount that way, buying demo stuff and returns ( Thanks Toploser, they work great) and getting stuff that works like new but which is still great value.

[Lightages]

There is one benefit from buying a demo unit. Electronics and other equipment have what is known as infant mortality. In other words most electronics will fail within a few hours of first use, or last their normal life. If something has been a demo and is still working then it made it past its infant mortality and you have a a good chance that it will last a long time. If you can get something that is indistinguishable from new, has been burned in, and ata a lower price, then you get a good deal IMHO.

If the seller is hiding the fact that it is not new then go elsewhere as they can't be trusted.

[fishandchips]

There is one benefit from buying a demo unit. Electronics and other equipment have what is known as infant mortality. In other words most electronics will fail within a few hours of first use, or last their normal life. If something has been a demo and is still working then it made it past its infant mortality and you have a a good chance that it will last a long time. If you can get something that is indistinguishable from new, has been burned in, and ata a lower price, then you get a good deal IMHO.

If the seller is hiding the fact that it is not new then go elsewhere as they can't be trusted.

If they sell demo units at the price of brand new units, then it is unacceptable. The only way to guarantee brand new is to open the boxin front of me.

[tautech]

There is one benefit from buying a demo unit. Electronics and other equipment have what is known as infant mortality. In other words most electronics will fail within a few hours of first use, or last their normal life. If something has been a demo and is still working then it made it past its infant mortality and you have a a good chance that it will last a long time. If you can get something that is indistinguishable from new, has been burned in, and ata a lower price, then you get a good deal IMHO.

If the seller is hiding the fact that it is not new then go elsewhere as they can't be trusted.

If they sell demo units at the price of brand new units, then it is unacceptable. The only way to guarantee brand new is to open the box in front of me.

Yes, but only if you can/want to collect directly from the seller.

I open every unit, boot it, run some very simple tests, check FW is latest...........often it's not, install latest and then dispatch.
Large distributors can't do all this, the manpower required would make it cost prohibitive and they have to trust the factory burn in and that accessories (probes) do actually work.

[tautech]

If purchase directly from the manufacturer or from Amazon sold by the manufacturer, I get the latest version both hardware and software wise. Am I right?

Unless it a fast moving model and not older stock on hand you could get last Rev HW and/or FW.

This might be good because manufacturer might change some internal electronic components for better ones. If I buy from a local store or via Amazon sold by other companies, I may get older version.

Most likely but you don't know how fresh their stock is. Yes there is a greater risk Amazon stock is older.

The only way around this is to contact the manufacturer and find out for sure what the latest revision HW and SW is.

[nctnico]

There is one benefit from buying a demo unit. Electronics and other equipment have what is known as infant mortality. In other words most electronics will fail within a few hours of first use, or last their normal life. If something has been a demo and is still working then it made it past its infant mortality and you have a a good chance that it will last a long time. If you can get something that is indistinguishable from new, has been burned in, and ata a lower price, then you get a good deal IMHO.

If the seller is hiding the fact that it is not new then go elsewhere as they can't be trusted.

If they sell demo units at the price of brand new units, then it is unacceptable. The only way to guarantee brand new is to open the boxin front of me.

There are some tell-tale signs like different packing tape but why don't you order it from a reputable firm like Tequipment.net?

[nanofrog]

There are some tell-tale signs like different packing tape but why don't you order it from a reputable firm like Tequipment.net?

I second this. 

[fishandchips]

There are some tell-tale signs like different packing tape but why don't you order it from a reputable firm like Tequipment.net?

I second this. 

Thanks for the suggestion. I am in Canada right now. I think Tequipment.net is in the USA.
I guess I need to decide which scope to buy first.

[rstofer]

In some ways, there is value added by a distributor that unpacks, tests and repacks a unit.  At least you don't wind up with a unit that is Dead On Arrival.

I think a distributor like tautech adds real value in the sales process.  I'm pretty sure most volume dealers can't and don't take the time.  They get the boxes in, they add an address label and they ship the boxes out.  Pretty simple business model!

I might not feel so good about it if the device is a store demo unit and people have been manhandling it for months while the dealer waits on somebody to buy it.

Watch Tequipment's inventory levels for an item you want to buy.  I did that once and decided that they were selling about 1000 DS1054Zs per week.  No way they're doing anything other than adding an address label but it was virtually certain that the firmware was fairly current.  There's nothing they can do if the firmware changed while the ship was in the middle of the ocean.

But, really, a firmware upgrade just isn't much of an issue.  The process is 'usually' pretty painless.

[fishandchips]

But, really, a firmware upgrade just isn't much of an issue.  The process is 'usually' pretty painless.

I think so too. What I am thinking is perhaps the manufacturers upgraded internal components silently.

[blacksheeplogic]

I think so too. What I am thinking is perhaps the manufacturers upgraded internal components silently.

And that could happen the day you bring the unit home before you even unpack the box. If it does the job you purchased it to do why does it matter?

[tautech]

In some ways, there is value added by a distributor that unpacks, tests and repacks a unit.  At least you don't wind up with a unit that is Dead On Arrival.

I think a distributor like tautech adds real value in the sales process.  I'm pretty sure most volume dealers can't and don't take the time.  They get the boxes in, they add an address label and they ship the boxes out.  Pretty simple business model!

Thanks.
It's a lot more difficult for a multibrand dealer to keep up with developments and ensure the customer gets an 'up to date' unit.

I might not feel so good about it if the device is a store demo unit and people have been manhandling it for months while the dealer waits on somebody to buy it.

^ the standard tradeoff when deciding which units to stock. You always want fresh units to sell not something that's been sitting around for months costing you money when you could've stocked something else that would've moved faster. 

Watch Tequipment's inventory levels for an item you want to buy.  I did that once and decided that they were selling about 1000 DS1054Zs per week.  No way they're doing anything other than adding an address label but it was virtually certain that the firmware was fairly current.  There's nothing they can do if the firmware changed while the ship was in the middle of the ocean.

I wouldn't be too sure about TQ's stock levels as being accurate.
A recent thread implies they're drop shipping. 

But, really, a firmware upgrade just isn't much of an issue.  The process is 'usually' pretty painless.

It definitely is for me but for buyers of entry level equipment the process can be daunting as the 'net' is littered with examples of FW upgrades that have ended in tears. 

Big dealers can generally offer best pricing but not always best service too.
Pick one; pricing or service.

[nanofrog]

Thanks for the suggestion. I am in Canada right now. I think Tequipment.net is in the USA.
I guess I need to decide which scope to buy first.

They are, but will be more than happy to get your business.  Oh, and they do ship internationally; whether it be Canada, Australia, .... 

PM sent.

[Nusa]

If they sell demo units at the price of brand new units, then it is unacceptable. The only way to guarantee brand new is to open the boxin front of me.

If that were the actual test, then what would the seller do if you then failed to purchase it? It's now open-box, but still totally new and not a demo unit. If they then discounted it, you'd just have your buddy come buy it at the open-box price for you.

[blacksheeplogic]

I open every unit, boot it, run some very simple tests, check FW is latest...........often it's not, install latest and then dispatch.
Large distributors can't do all this, the manpower required would make it cost prohibitive and they have to trust the factory burn in and that accessories (probes) do actually work.

Larger distributors do this as well, The Keysight distributor tested the scope including installing the MSO license. As I recall the Tek distributor did this as well when I bought my prior scope. Companies like tEquipment cater more to the Wall-mart business model of shifting boxes and dealing with hopefully a low % of problems.

Both models work depending on the the client's requirements. I prefer the former but it's at a higher cost and depends on what your time is worth.

[rstofer]

But, really, a firmware upgrade just isn't much of an issue.  The process is 'usually' pretty painless.

It definitely is for me but for buyers of entry level equipment the process can be daunting as the 'net' is littered with examples of FW upgrades that have ended in tears. 

Big dealers can generally offer best pricing but not always best service too.
Pick one; pricing or service.

Sometimes the users get creative with the instructions.  How many times do they need to read the instructions before they believe that DSER is the answer?  DS1054Z unlock code...

[fishandchips]

Generally speaking, when purchasing electronics instruments (such as an oscilloscope) made in China, what are the differences between purchasing via Amazon vs. purchasing directly from the manufacturer in China? I guess I can be sure that I get the latest version of hardware and software if purchasing from the manufacturer. However, I don't use paypal.

Does purchasing from Amazon rather than directly from the manufacturer also provide added protection?

[Amazing]

Does purchasing from Amazon rather than directly from the manufacturer also provide added protection?

When buying through the Amazon site they have very generous return policies so if anything goes wrong you are not out the cash.

But remember that you probably aren't buying from Amazon themselves, but from a third party seller. 

Also, I've read that when Amazon is handling fulfillment, in some cases they mix the inventory from the various sellers in their warehouse, on the theory that items with the same SKU are equivalent.  So you while you might think you are buying from a reputable seller, you might actually be buying a piece of gear that was sent to amazon by some shady dealer that got it refurb or on the grey market.

[fishandchips]

Does purchasing from Amazon rather than directly from the manufacturer also provide added protection?

When buying through the Amazon site they have very generous return policies so if anything goes wrong you are not out the cash.

But remember that you probably aren't buying from Amazon themselves, but from a third party seller. 

Also, I've read that when Amazon is handling fulfillment, in some cases they mix the inventory from the various sellers in their warehouse, on the theory that items with the same SKU are equivalent.  So you while you might think you are buying from a reputable seller, you might actually be buying a piece of gear that was sent to amazon by some shady dealer that got it refurb or on the grey market.

Recently, I bought a LC Meter from Amazon. It was sent from a third party seller in Japan directly (as mentioned on the product page). It went through very well. Now, I am considering to purchase a Micsig oscilloscope. According to Amazon, it will be from Micsig Hong Kong. In this case, do you recommend buying from Amazon or directly from Micisg China?