Where will Oscilloscopes and DMM's be in 10yrs ?

[2N3055]

The two channel is cheaper

I don't think anybody should buy 2 ch scope anymore.. You cannot even look at the SPI bus signals without it..
Especially that price difference is not that great.

[tautech]

The two channel is cheaper

I don't think anybody should buy 2 ch scope anymore.. You cannot even look at the SPI bus signals without it..
Especially that price difference is not that great.

You can but not both MOSI and MISO together.
One channel must be on the clock and instead of connecting another to CS as you don't have a spare channel you use a Clk Timeout to emulate CS.

These features are in the Siglent DSO's you have.

[coppice]

The two channel is cheaper

I don't think anybody should buy 2 ch scope anymore.. You cannot even look at the SPI bus signals without it..
Especially that price difference is not that great.

I can't remember the last time I used a scope with more than 2 probes plugged in. If I want to look at an SPI bus its usually for something specific. A clock channel and the one data line I am interested in is usually enough, and avoids me having to bother hooking up more test points. If a 4 channel scope is a low premium over a 2 channel one you might as well get the 4 channel model, but I wouldn't pay a high premium for the extra channels.

[2N3055]

The two channel is cheaper

I don't think anybody should buy 2 ch scope anymore.. You cannot even look at the SPI bus signals without it..
Especially that price difference is not that great.

You can but not both MOSI and MISO together.
One channel must be on the clock and instead of connecting another to CS as you don't have a spare channel you use a Clk Timeout to emulate CS.

These features are in the Siglent DSO's you have.

Let me clarify what I meant. I wasn't talking about decoding. For decoding single direction data you are absolutely right.
But what  I was referring to was seeing full SPI data (CLK, CS, MOSI, MISO) on analog level (and decoding if need be).
Many times we need to measure both question and response and general timing for all 4 SPI lines. To basically be able to compare to timing diagrams in datasheet.  Also (and this is when MSO comes in handy), for instance on AD/DA converters to correlate digital and analog data...
To paraphrase TopGear, MOAR CHANNELS!!

Joking on the side, there are many people out there whose needs are perfectly well served with 2ch scopes..
That is why I said "I wouldn't buy". Emphasis on my opinion based on my type of work.

[tautech]

The two channel is cheaper

I don't think anybody should buy 2 ch scope anymore.. You cannot even look at the SPI bus signals without it..
Especially that price difference is not that great.

You can but not both MOSI and MISO together.
One channel must be on the clock and instead of connecting another to CS as you don't have a spare channel you use a Clk Timeout to emulate CS.

These features are in the Siglent DSO's you have.

Let me clarify what I meant.

I know exactly what you meant. 

[2N3055]

The two channel is cheaper

I don't think anybody should buy 2 ch scope anymore.. You cannot even look at the SPI bus signals without it..
Especially that price difference is not that great.

I can't remember the last time I used a scope with more than 2 probes plugged in. If I want to look at an SPI bus its usually for something specific. A clock channel and the one data line I am interested in is usually enough, and avoids me having to bother hooking up more test points. If a 4 channel scope is a low premium over a 2 channel one you might as well get the 4 channel model, but I wouldn't pay a high premium for the extra channels.

That's fine, we all do different things different way. Each person chose their priorities.  My point is that 2 ch scope with 2 probes is 700€ (no tax) and 4ch scope with 4 probes  is 999€ (no tax). Difference is not peanuts but in percentage it is not so great. That is for new Rigol HDO1000. In meantime Rigol MS5000 is cheaper in basic 4 ch version then in 2ch. Go figure..

[Bud]

I am with coppice on this one. Even if i do have a 4 channel scope I avoid using more than 1 channel as much as I can because fiddling with multiple probe cables drives me nuts. As it turns out 99% of the time 1 channel is all that is needed.

[rsjsouza]

My point is that 2 ch scope with 2 probes is 700€ (no tax) and 4ch scope with 4 probes  is 999€ (no tax). Difference is not peanuts but in percentage it is not so great. That is for new Rigol HDO1000.

Sinisa, it is 40% more... For a beginner it can give you a lot in the test gear department.

My experience also reflects coppice and Bud here, but I agree it is entirely dependent on the usage. Analog electronics has use for one or two channels 99% of the time, while digital electronics might be better covered with other tools such as a cheap logic analyzer. Each to its own, I guess.

In meantime Rigol MS5000 is cheaper in basic 4 ch version then in 2ch. Go figure..

Now that I don't understand... Go figure.

[coppice]

My point is that 2 ch scope with 2 probes is 700€ (no tax) and 4ch scope with 4 probes  is 999€ (no tax). Difference is not peanuts but in percentage it is not so great. That is for new Rigol HDO1000.

Sinisa, it is 40% more... For a beginner it can give you a lot in the test gear department.

My experience also reflects coppice and Bud here, but I agree it is entirely dependent on the usage. Analog electronics has use for one or two channels 99% of the time, while digital electronics might be better covered with other tools such as a cheap logic analyzer. Each to its own, I guess.

In meantime Rigol MS5000 is cheaper in basic 4 ch version then in 2ch. Go figure..

Now that I don't understand... Go figure.

The 4 channel one is on promotion right now. The 2 channel one isn't.

[robert.rozee]

we may see a role reversal in future, with an instrument that is primarily an 8 or 16-channel logic analyzer that includes a tightly-integrated 2-channel oscilloscope add-on.

imagine 8 (or 16) BNC inputs running into to the logic analyzer portion, and then a pair of analog channels that can be switched arbitrarily to more closely examine any of the 8/16 inputs. this would well serve the needs of someone who is mostly interested in digital electronics, but at the same time has a need to occasionally inspect the shape/integrity of signals.

most crudely, there would be two 16-position rotary switches that select which two of the 8 (or 16) inputs got the analog attention. the screen layout may consist of the two selected channels expanded vertically, so that as you rotated one of the rotary switches the digital traces would be shuffled up/down to accommodate the analog one(s).

© me, 2022!


cheers,
rob   :-)

[tautech]

we may see a role reversal in future, with an instrument that is primarily an 8 or 16-channel logic analyzer that includes a tightly-integrated 2-channel oscilloscope add-on.

imagine 8 (or 16) BNC inputs running into to the logic analyzer portion, and then a pair of analog channels that can be switched arbitrarily to more closely examine any of the 8/16 inputs. this would well serve the needs of someone who is mostly interested in digital electronics, but at the same time has a need to occasionally inspect the shape/integrity of signals.

most crudely, there would be two 16-position rotary switches that select which two of the 8 (or 16) inputs got the analog attention. the screen layout may consist of the two selected channels expanded vertically, so that as you rotated one of the rotary switches the digital traces would be shuffled up/down to accommodate the analog one(s).

© me, 2022!


cheers,
rob   :-)

It’s almost here, the SDS6000L, a headless DSO of 4 or 8 analog channels with each unit supporting 16 digital channels and if you say that’s nothing special you’re correct but multiple units can be remotely ganged together to provide a max of 512 analog channels.

There’s a thread here dedicated to them including the little we know about them at this time.

[nctnico]

we may see a role reversal in future, with an instrument that is primarily an 8 or 16-channel logic analyzer that includes a tightly-integrated 2-channel oscilloscope add-on.

imagine 8 (or 16) BNC inputs running into to the logic analyzer portion, and then a pair of analog channels that can be switched arbitrarily to more closely examine any of the 8/16 inputs. this would well serve the needs of someone who is mostly interested in digital electronics, but at the same time has a need to occasionally inspect the shape/integrity of signals.

most crudely, there would be two 16-position rotary switches that select which two of the 8 (or 16) inputs got the analog attention. the screen layout may consist of the two selected channels expanded vertically, so that as you rotated one of the rotary switches the digital traces would be shuffled up/down to accommodate the analog one(s).

I doubt that. Digital busses are going away more and more. Also your idea already exists. On my Tektronix logic analyser I can select 4 digital channels to have these output on 4 BNCs to check the signals with an oscilloscope (which could be build in as well through a DSO module).

[pdenisowski]

Since Rich just posted this on LinkedIn today: the definitions phase for our new MXO4 oscilloscope started around 2016 and development started in 2018. 

So the question "where will oscilloscopes be in 10 years?" will most likely be answered about ~5 years from now

[EEVblog]

It's interesting to note that Keysight have milked the Megazoom IV ASIC for 12 years now, with no sign of a replacement in sight.
In terms of update rate it's only recently been beaten by the R&S MXO4 series, but even that high end kit will drop from millions of waveforms/sec to under 1000/sec when you turn measurements on. So the 12yo Keysight still wins and nothing else can touch it for everyday responsiveness.

With all the advancements in FPGA and processor horsepower tech, I find it strange that scopes still lack responsiveness in some basic operations.
The winner this decade might be the one that can crack the best and fastest architecture when you turn all the features on.

[vk6zgo]

[...]

So, there is no viable scope for a student/hobbyst.

I am sorry, but this is getting comical. You do realize that not so long there might not have been a single "viable" scope on the market (silent, low noise FE, large screen, super deep memory, full set of analysis features and what not) at any price-point, right?

I realize you want something without a noisy fan and actually I sympathise. In a lab with a noisy aircon and other stuff running all the time, it might barely be noticable, but after-hours at home I agree that it can be quite annoying. But that is a niche requirement, so if you really cannot live with the fan at all, you'll probably just have to pay more and maybe give up statistics or make do with "only" 10M sample memory or learn to apply a screen protector or something.

Back in the day, much of my Oscilloscope use was in massive transmitter halls with a constant background noise of high volume blowers for the air cooled transmitting tubes, so any noise from the 'scope fan was negligible.

[vk6zgo]

In my case, my personal ones will probably be in landfill!
Meanwhile, I will either be "pushing up daisies" or sitting in front of TV, doing a crash course of drooling down my cardigan!