Hp8711 firmware help

[ovenqin]

Hi all, recently I bought a old hp8714c(I believe) from local flea market with just $500, the seller don't guarrant anything with this price, and the machine also don't work at all, But I think i could fix it , it's a huge challenge for me, 8714c could work up to 3G, It's a convenice tool for me to DIY some 2.4G wifi antennas for fun. after I got it home, I started to repair it, I find a crazy thing  the marks of 8711 in A2,A3,A4,A5 units,it means it's a fake hp8714c ? I don't sure , some one can help check it with my picture of A2 unit? After the power supply is ok for this machine, the capacity in supply pcb leak , I replace it and jump some wire for corroded trace in PCB. Eventually, I found the worst thing in this fake hp8714c, the flashrom of bootload is also missing and SIMM DRAM,  It's other big joke for me, in this forum I find hp8714c bootrom by TheSteve, I don't sure it work ok for 8711, anyone could upload 8711 bootload firmare , Thank your help for my challenge work. 
73!
Oven BD7TQ

[kirill_ka]

I can't help with this particular unit, but it's common that HP part numbers are not the same as the model number.
For example,  in a single HP856xE unit you'll find parts prefixed with 08560- 08562- 08563-.

[picburner]

You can find the HP 8711 boot-rom here:
http://www.ko4bb.com/getsimple/index.php?id=download&file=HP_Agilent/HP_871x_Network_Analyzer/HP_8711_8712_Network_Analyzer_EPROM_03.01.zip
I had loaded it time ago with GAL jed files etc.
You also miss the SRAM U83 CXK581000P-12 or similar.

[TK]

If it is a 871XB then the SIMM RAM modules are not required to use.  There is DRAM on board.

[ovenqin]

Hi Picburner, I really appreciate for your help. I already order the 28F010, 28F020, CXK581000P chip from components retail shop. Maybe I will get the chips on monday. I will borrow the programer to do it.
   I will report the result in here and get some advice. BTW: In you zip file, that is a  2M size file of flashdump, I think it is used for eight of flashroms?
   The first of step, I think download the bootload to A2U82(Either 28F010 or 28F020 I thinke both are ok for 8711), supply power and check the system.
   Picburner , thank you again, Have a good day!
73!
Oven BD7TQ

[ovenqin]

Hi TK. if Simm Dram is not install, the system cannot work? or Simm Dram is just use for IBASIC ?? It's very different to find 30pin Simm DRAM, It is really really old device.
73!
Oven BD7TQ

[TK]

The system will work without the SIMM RAM modules.

[TK]

Your motherboard is also missing the IBASIC GAL chip.  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/how-to-activate-ibasic-on-vintage-hp-871xb-network-analyzers/msg1251274/#msg1251274

[TheSteve]

Looks like a good challenge - I hope you can get it working again. Do you have more pictures of the machine?

[picburner]

I agree it's a really good challenge.
Not having the original boot-rom, where the calibration constants reside, after repairing the unit you will be forced to calibrate it completely from scratch.

Yes, in my zip file, the 2MB file is the firmware flashdump (the eight 28F020) downloaded by GPIB with a Python program.

[ovenqin]

Hi Thesteve, thank you for reply. Here are pictures of all units. could you check it and give my more detail steps and informations about this machine?  is it 75o or 50o input?
73!
oven bd7tq

[TheSteve]

Do you have a picture of the back of the chassis?

[ovenqin]

Hi Thesteve, ok! I have to looking for special screwdrive to open the metal box.

73!
Oven BD7TQ

[TheSteve]

If the back panel is the original one then the unit should be 50 ohms as no 75 ohm option is listed. It is certainly not an 8714C though. Looks to be an 871xA or 871xB. Hopefully you can get it to power up with the parts you've ordered to see what it reports on the screen.

[ovenqin]

Hi Thesteve, Today I want to lab for test the power supply of this machine with electronic load,  after I fixed it. It's fine now. +5V/8A +15/3A -15/2A +12V/3A, the measure param is same as label of the supply.  I also open metal box of the A4 Source, the VCO look like 3.6G, I guess this is a HP8711. 
  73! Have a good day!
Oven BD7TQ

[rfdes]

I didn't see the schematics link for the 87xx network analyzers in this thread so here you go:
http://na.support.keysight.com/871x/schematics/

Good luck and keep us all posted with your results.

[ovenqin]

Thanks alot, RFdes. I have been there before.
   Have a good Day 73!
BD7TQ

[ovenqin]

Hi picburner, I think  calibrate data isnot inside the bootrom, that is the reason that you should do OSL calibrate everytime if you want to high accurate measure.
  73! Have a good day!
oven BD7TQ

[Tony_G]

From poking around on the Keysight website, I think that board from earlier (08711-60104) is from a 8711B (it comes up as not used but the replacement 08711-69104 comes up for a 8711BR which also doesn't exist but the R might simply reflect the exchange/refurbishment of the board).

Anyway, as Steve said, it isn't an 8714C.

TonyG

[scopeman]

I believe what you have is an older version because the CPU board IIRC is the older 68020 based one. The way to tell once you have it running is the A models with the slower PCB assembly could not support the vector mode (Smith Chart and Phase display modes) They were scalar (amplitude vs. frequency units only. It could be that you have a unit that has the front panel from the 8714C but the unit has parts in it from other models as they were built on the same chassis. I do now that a CLIP exists for this unit as I scanned a copy of that CLIP for Keysight and emailed it to them for inclusion on their web site. It is a 23MB file.

If you look up on www.ko4bb.com and search for 8711 you can find some additional information there.

The other hint is to check the firmware version when the instrument boots if it reports an 8711A and the firmware is 2.X something chances are it can not be upgraded to a vector unit. Also on the A models before updating the firmware you absolutely must save a copy of the calibration data onto a floppy disk before updating the firmware as the firmware update destroys the calibration data requiring you to reload the data from disk.

One more important note: The firmware loading disks are in LIF format and are NOT copyable or readable by modern operating systems. You need a genuine DOS machine with old fashioned floppy drives that can run the HP LIFUTIL program to copy and create the disks. The HP Agilent Yahoo! group has these utilities.

I suggest that if you get the machine working and it has 2.X firmware and you determine that it has the older CPU board that you leave it alone and save yourself a lot of grief trying to update it. I was able to get mine to 2.10 IIRC and the IBasic GAL and 4M of RAM IIRC as a Scalar only. I waited until a "won't power up - otherwise complete" 8713C showed up on eBay. Then I fixed that one, upgraded it to max RAM and the latest firmware and converted it to a 8714C and then I sold my "A" model which ultimately paid for most of the 8713C,

I will see if I can upload the CLIP for the HP8711A to www.ko4bb.com and hopefully it will show up there for you soon.

Good Luck getting it up and working. They are great analyzers.

Sam
W3OHM

[scopeman]

I found a readme_first document that I wrote a while back on firmware and options for this instrument. I have attached a copy (in the zip) and I suggest that you read through it as it answers many questions you have or will have. The zip includes the firmware creation software that you can run on a true DOS machine to make version A2.10 firmware should you need it. If you need newer versions of firmware I may have them or you may be able to find them on the HP Agilent group on Yahoo! groups. If you really need later versions of the firmware and can't find them let me know by PM and I will see what I can do. For the most part if you have a working instrument it is safest to leave the firmware as is unless it is corrupt in some way.

Sam
W3OHM

[TK]

Hi picburner, I think  calibrate data isnot inside the bootrom, that is the reason that you should do OSL calibrate everytime if you want to high accurate measure.
  73! Have a good day!
oven BD7TQ

Calibration Coeficients are stored in the EEPROM.  I am not sure if it is the same bootrom FLASH chip or another EEPROM chip.  It is needed to operate, that is why it is very important to back it up on floppy before doing the firmware upgrade.  The firmware upgrade process erases the existing calibration coeficients and it needs to be reloaded from the backup floppy.  If they are lost, most of the calibrations can be done using the service menu, but you will need some additional instruments.

[scopeman]

I have worked on a half dozen of these instruments. All A's and C's and the A with the old CPU board is different than the C. The A and B versions did not have the Ethernet LAN connection the C does so if the rear of the instrument has a LAN jack then you have a C model.

Believe me when I say this on an 8711A factory calibration data  is stored in the Flash area (The boot rom is a separate Flash chip) and updating firmware overwrites this area.

The full factory instrument calibration data can not be restored by an OSL CAL. There is other instrument calibration data that you can't restore without a complete calibration of the instrument and I doubt that one would have the standards as test equipment required to do a complete instrument calibration.

Later models like the C version (and possibly the B but I have never worked on one of those) did store the data in EEPROM and not the Flash area so you are safe there.

Depending on the level of the firmware in the A model you may or not get a warning on the display about saving the cal data before doing a firmware update. So I always recommend that one saves the cal data to a floppy that has been formatted in the instrument. It only takes a few seconds and it's better to take the few seconds to save it than to find out that you have lost all of the cal data on re boot. Not a good feeling! One needs to verify beforehand by saving and retrieving some instrument setups to a floppy and verify that the floppy drive is good. After all these instruments may have been setting in storage for decades!

One more thing. I guess that there could be a possibility that there have a mix of modules from different versions but you will need the service manual and the CLIP to confirm that. This sometimes happens in surplus instruments when you find instruments on ebay that have descriptions like "does not power on - unable to test" or "I do not know how to test" and the like so buyer beware!

Sam
W3OHM

[ovenqin]

Hi W3OHM,TK Thanks for this informations. yeah it's challenge work. In afternoon, I got 28F010 and CXK581000P.After program the 28F010 with bootrom file, I run the A3 unit with a +5V regular power lonely, A3 unit run ,sound beep and LED display 0,1,2 and finally stop at E the system seem halt there, Video out LED is also lighted, H/V sigal could be probe, the Ext video out have a signal out too. I try connect Video BNC port to a monitor display , but can't saw anything in monitor, I don't sure Ext video is NTSC ,PAL or the special standard sigh for video. when I put CRT and  A3 unit together in box, But A3 unit don't run and LED display 8 in this condition, this is a strange thing. I try to search for manual, what means for LED disply the E.
 73! All

[TK]

Video output from the unit is not composite video for a standard TV.  It is a special video monitor signal.