Author Topic: Is the signal generator on the Rigol scopes worth buying?  (Read 6592 times)

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Offline nbritton

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Is the signal generator on the Rigol scopes worth buying?
« on: September 19, 2015, 03:59:16 AM »
New here, buying my first 'real' scope. What's it worth to have an integrated signal generator in your scope? Is this even desirable? It seems like it would complicate the usability of the device. The Siglent SDG1025 can be had for about $350.

The price difference between the DS/MSO2072A and DS/MSO2072A-S is $350.
The price difference between the DS1074Z and DS1074Z-S is $200.
The price difference between the MSO1074Z and MSO104Z-S is $233.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 04:30:17 AM by nbritton »
 

Online georges80

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Re: Is the signal generator on the Rigol scopes worth buying?
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2015, 04:07:26 AM »
Built in is handy for academic places since it becomes an all in one tool. In the case of the Agilent scopes the built in generator can be a teaching tool (built in patterns and 'lessons').

Built in can be handy if you have space issues on your bench.

My scope has a built in generator, I rarely use it since I have a nice Agilent 33250A (much better specs etc).

So, you will to be the one to answer your question since only you know your specific needs.

cheers,
george.
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Offline soren

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Re: Is the signal generator on the Rigol scopes worth buying?
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2015, 04:40:59 AM »
The price difference between the DS/MSO2072A and DS/MSO2072A-S is $350.
The price difference between the DS1074Z and DS1074Z-S is $200.
The price difference between the MSO1074Z and MSO104Z-S is $233.

The DS1074Z is a pointless product. A more useful comparison is between the DS1054Z and DS1074Z-S, where the price difference is $350.
 

Offline smgvbest

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Re: Is the signal generator on the Rigol scopes worth buying?
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2015, 04:59:21 AM »
The price difference between the DS/MSO2072A and DS/MSO2072A-S is $350.
The price difference between the DS1074Z and DS1074Z-S is $200.
The price difference between the MSO1074Z and MSO104Z-S is $233.

The DS1074Z is a pointless product. A more useful comparison is between the DS1054Z and DS1074Z-S, where the price difference is $350.

Why is the DS1074Z pointless?  comparing a DS1054Z to a DS1074Z-S is not an apples to apples comparison as the price also includes the 100Mhz upgrade.
the OP is comparing like scopes which seems far from pointless.
I understand you can hack the DS1054Z to a DS1074Z but that doesn't make the comparison pointless

For the OP
I have a MSO1074Z-S and find it useful for times when I need a quick signal source.  it's not as easy to use as a dedicated product but it's also not horrible to me personally.   My other Sig Gen is a Hantek and it's not without its faults for sure.   
Sandra
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Is the signal generator on the Rigol scopes worth buying?
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2015, 05:37:30 AM »
Why is the DS1074Z pointless?
Because you'd never buy one in practice.

A DS1054Z is exactly the same internals and can be bandwidth-upgraded for far less than the price of a DS1074Z (just enter a secret code on the front panel!)

To answer the original question: It really depends on bench space. If you've got the space then a separate unit is almost always a better option. An all-in-one device is only better if you plan to never, ever upgrade a component.

« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 05:53:47 AM by Fungus »
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Is the signal generator on the Rigol scopes worth buying?
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2015, 06:03:36 AM »
I think a seperate signal generator is better. I often want to look at a signal while changing frequency and/or amplitude. On a scope with signal generator I'd need to go back and forth between the signal generator and oscilloscope settings. I think I'm not the only one with such a usage scenario.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline marber

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Re: Is the signal generator on the Rigol scopes worth buying?
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2015, 06:16:37 AM »
I think a seperate signal generator is better. I often want to look at a signal while changing frequency and/or amplitude. On a scope with signal generator I'd need to go back and forth between the signal generator and oscilloscope settings. I think I'm not the only one with such a usage scenario.

Yes, but on the DS1074Z-S that's not a problem as the signal generator settings are entirely in the side bar menu, which doesn't overlap the signal at all. I wouldn't say it's a great interface, but at least that's not an issue and you can change the signal while verifying the waveform just fine.

When I bought mine I thought the extra $200 was reasonable for a basic siggen, especially since I don't have a ton of desk space. But afterwards the DS1054Z came out, and I'm not sure I'd still opt for it now.
 

Online tautech

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Re: Is the signal generator on the Rigol scopes worth buying?
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2015, 06:38:21 AM »
New here, buying my first 'real' scope. What's it worth to have an integrated signal generator in your scope? Is this even desirable? It seems like it would complicate the usability of the device. The Siglent SDG1025 can be had for about $350.
Of course a dedicated AWG like the SDG1025 will be better, 2 channels and more functionality IF you need it.  :-//
But IMHO the inbuilt units are perfectly OK for basic use and other than drive capability far better than an old Sig gen.
You'd want to check Max P-P specs to ensure you'd get what you require.

I prefer a front panel AWG BNC but as instruments become more compact, front panel real-estate is very tight and manufacturers are starting to place the BNC's on the rear.  :--
What's the point of providing an inbuilt AWG and placing connectors at the rear?  |O
/Rant

My SDS2304 can store 4 Arbitrary waveforms that are first created on PC and sent to the DSO AWG, usability of suppliers PC software will have an impact on how easy this might be.

General operation is little different than actually using a DSO, all AWG functionality is in a single main menu with additional settings in sub menus ....at least this is how it is in Siglents.
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Offline marber

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Re: Is the signal generator on the Rigol scopes worth buying?
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2015, 06:52:17 AM »
Of course a dedicated AWG like the SDG1025 will be better, 2 channels and more functionality IF you need it.  :-//

The Rigol -S DSOs/MSOs have two siggen channels as well, BTW.

I believe the signal generator daughter boards in the DS1000Z-S series and the DS2000-S series are exactly the same hardware, but the price difference is not.
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: Is the signal generator on the Rigol scopes worth buying?
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2015, 07:33:13 AM »
For field work I have the MSO1074Z-S because it has everything I need in a convenient portable package.

Fiddling through the menus is a bit irritating, but as a signal generator it works well enough. Trying to set up the Arb is a PITA from the UI, but that's a compromise I was prepared to make as it's not often I need to use it. Also the connectors are on the back, another compromise.

But if you want an all in one scope with those specs at that price point, it can't be beat.

I bought a DS1074Z-S for my nephew who's into guitar pedals. Sure, I could've bought him separate function gen and scope, but he lacks bench space.

I guess it also depends how often you actually use a function generator/AWG: I admit to being an occasional user, I use a scope every day but I only ned an AWG maybe once a week on average, although use is sporadic and intense when I do.

At the end of the day it's a compromise from an accessibilty perspective, but from the point of view of functionality, performance and efficient use of bench space it's a compelling offering.
 

Offline Jeroen3

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Re: Is the signal generator on the Rigol scopes worth buying?
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2015, 08:03:22 AM »
No. Low voltage range, poor controls using the unindented general purpose knob, no decimal shift for the adjuster. Not worth it (with current firmware).

But, as a side feature it is nice to have. I can also imagine it beging helpful in testing/calibration setups at a small production line.
 

Offline nfmax

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Re: Is the signal generator on the Rigol scopes worth buying?
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2015, 08:06:32 AM »
Is the generator low side tied to chassis ground? That can be a problem in some situations.
 

Offline smgvbest

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Re: Is the signal generator on the Rigol scopes worth buying?
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2015, 09:22:25 AM »
Why is the DS1074Z pointless?
Because you'd never buy one in practice.

A DS1054Z is exactly the same internals and can be bandwidth-upgraded for far less than the price of a DS1074Z (just enter a secret code on the front panel!)

To answer the original question: It really depends on bench space. If you've got the space then a separate unit is almost always a better option. An all-in-one device is only better if you plan to never, ever upgrade a component.

But you can not purchase a DS1054Z-S they don't exist so its not an option so it's not an comparison.   
Yes you can hack a DS1054Z to a DS1104Z but you can not make it a DS1074Z-S so again the caparison it irrelevant.   
you can only hack a DS1074Z-S to get 100Mhz and other features 
So as the OP posted his comparison is accurate

Sandra
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Online tautech

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Re: Is the signal generator on the Rigol scopes worth buying?
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2015, 09:26:50 AM »
Is the generator low side tied to chassis ground? That can be a problem in some situations.
Generally yes, most but not all Sig gens and AWG's are this way.
When Isolated channels are fitted it is normally documented as a feature of model/range.
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Is the signal generator on the Rigol scopes worth buying?
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2015, 09:50:01 AM »
Why is the DS1074Z pointless?
Because you'd never buy one in practice.
But you can not purchase a DS1054Z-S they don't exist so its not an option so it's not an comparison.   
Yes you can hack a DS1054Z to a DS1104Z but you can not make it a DS1074Z-S so again the caparison it irrelevant.   
you can only hack a DS1074Z-S to get 100Mhz and other features 
So as the OP posted his comparison is accurate

All technically true, but completely irrelevant.

The original assertion was: "The price difference between the DS1074Z and DS1074Z-S is $200."

The point being made was that you wouldn't ever buy a DS1074Z. You'd buy DS1054Z instead - it's cheaper!

The assertion therefore becomes: "The price difference between the DS1054Z and DS1074Z-S is $400"

This means that yes, you can buy a DS1054Z+Siglent SDG1025 for about the same money as a DS1074Z-S.

So ... which is a better choice? I say it comes down to available desk space more than anything else.
 

Offline Someone

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Re: Is the signal generator on the Rigol scopes worth buying?
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2015, 10:56:12 AM »
New here, buying my first 'real' scope. What's it worth to have an integrated signal generator in your scope? Is this even desirable? It seems like it would complicate the usability of the device. The Siglent SDG1025 can be had for about $350.

The price difference between the DS/MSO2072A and DS/MSO2072A-S is $350.
The price difference between the DS1074Z and DS1074Z-S is $200.
The price difference between the MSO1074Z and MSO104Z-S is $233.
You get what you pay for as these products are sold into a quite competitive market. The functionality differences between the rigol vs the agilent/keysight are huge (I've used both), and then compared to a separate instrument the different again is huge. Whether a particular example will meet your needs is something only you can answer.
 

Offline smgvbest

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Re: Is the signal generator on the Rigol scopes worth buying?
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2015, 11:26:51 AM »
[quote author=Fungus link=topic=55369.msg758273#msg758273 date=1442620201

All technically true, but completely irrelevant.

The original assertion was: "The price difference between the DS1074Z and DS1074Z-S is $200."

The point being made was that you wouldn't ever buy a DS1074Z. You'd buy DS1054Z instead - it's cheaper!

The assertion therefore becomes: "The price difference between the DS1054Z and DS1074Z-S is $400"

This means that yes, you can buy a DS1054Z+Siglent SDG1025 for about the same money as a DS1074Z-S.

So ... which is a better choice? I say it comes down to available desk space more than anything else.
[/quote]

Totally disagree with your logic, the OP did not ask about a scope that did not have SigGen ability.
The OP specifically name compatible scopes from Rigol with SigGen ability and asked if they are worth it.
Your assertion is not what was asked is all I am saying.   is what you're saying true, yes, when asking what combination is the possible best deal.
But when the question is "Is the signal generator on the Rigol scopes worth buying?" your point of the DS1074Z being irrelevant is itself irrelevant Instead simply state that a DS1054Z+Siglent SDG1025 is a better value in your opinion,  don't state it as fact by saying the DS1074Z is pointless. It's not pointless to the OP as they posed the question. That's all I am saying. 

I find the SigGen in my MSO1074Z-S worth having.  for what it does it works fine.  it's convenient.  I think if you can afford a separate SigGen by all means get one. 


Sandra
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Offline CustomEngineerer

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Re: Is the signal generator on the Rigol scopes worth buying?
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2015, 11:36:22 AM »
I bought the Rigol DS2072A-S because I didn't have the bench space for a separate function generator. I have regretted it since I got it (the builtin generator, not the scope). I really wish I had put the extra $350 towards a proper standalone AWG and figured out a way to make it fit on my bench. While the builtin isn't terrible its still pretty clumsy trying to set through an interface that was designed for scope use first and foremost.

Howardlong's situation seems to be the only use case where it really make sense to get the all-in-one.
 

Offline nbritton

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Re: Is the signal generator on the Rigol scopes worth buying?
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2015, 12:59:30 PM »
In the datasheet for the Rigol 2000A it says the signal generator can only do up to 1 MHz sine wave. Is this true or is it a typo?

http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/attachment/1579/f-0505/1/-/-/-/-/MSO2000A_Datasheet.pdf
 

Online tautech

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Re: Is the signal generator on the Rigol scopes worth buying?
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2015, 01:11:54 PM »
In the datasheet for the Rigol 2000A it says the signal generator can only do up to 1 MHz sine wave. Is this true or is it a typo?

http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/attachment/1579/f-0505/1/-/-/-/-/MSO2000A_Datasheet.pdf
Surely a misprint you would think.  :-//

Siglent inbuilt AWG's in SDS2000 and the new SDS1000X-S series both max at 25 MHz Sine wave.
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Offline CustomEngineerer

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Re: Is the signal generator on the Rigol scopes worth buying?
« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2015, 01:38:27 PM »
In the datasheet for the Rigol 2000A it says the signal generator can only do up to 1 MHz sine wave. Is this true or is it a typo?

http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/attachment/1579/f-0505/1/-/-/-/-/MSO2000A_Datasheet.pdf

It must be a misprint. The copy of the specs I downloaded when I bought the scope shows below. And the specs document I grabbed is actually just chapter 18 from the user guide, which checking the whole user guide shows the same thing.

Sine Wave 100mHz - 25MHz
Square Wave 100mHz - 15MHz
Pulse 1mHz - 1MHz
Ramp 100mHz - 100KHz
Builtin Functions 100mHz - 1MHz
Arbitrary 100mHz - 10MHz
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 01:42:34 PM by CustomEngineerer »
 

Offline CustomEngineerer

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Re: Is the signal generator on the Rigol scopes worth buying?
« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2015, 01:54:12 PM »
In the datasheet for the Rigol 2000A it says the signal generator can only do up to 1 MHz sine wave. Is this true or is it a typo?

http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/attachment/1579/f-0505/1/-/-/-/-/MSO2000A_Datasheet.pdf

It must be a misprint. The copy of the specs I downloaded when I bought the scope shows below. And the specs document I grabbed is actually just chapter 18 from the user guide, which checking the whole user guide shows the same thing.

Sine Wave 100mHz - 25MHz
Square Wave 100mHz - 15MHz
Pulse 1mHz - 1MHz
Ramp 100mHz - 100KHz
Builtin Functions 100mHz - 1MHz
Arbitrary 100mHz - 10MHz

Went ahead and verified that it is a 25MHz sine wave on my DS2072A-S.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Is the signal generator on the Rigol scopes worth buying?
« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2015, 06:54:56 PM »
I find the SigGen in my MSO1074Z-S worth having.  for what it does it works fine.  it's convenient.
Nobody said it isn't.   :palm:

What's being said is that a DSO1074Z plus separate signal generator doesn't make much sense. Reason: The DSO1074Z doesn't make much sense.

(At least: Not if you're buying one with your own money...)
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 07:14:07 PM by Fungus »
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: Is the signal generator on the Rigol scopes worth buying?
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2016, 09:10:49 PM »
Is there any YouTube video out there that shows the usage of the built-in signal generator in the DS-1000Z-S series?

I would like to have a better view on the menu options and how user-friendly or how not user-friendly it is.
Haven't seen any screenshot or any video showing the signal generator functionality in the scope.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Is the signal generator on the Rigol scopes worth buying?
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2016, 12:16:46 AM »
If you can hack-it so it is free I see no reason not to get it but I think a Feeltech FY3200S generator is a much better buy for the money.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 


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