Is there a better meter for $10.95??

[Fungus]

I'm actually kind of surprised that TRMS hasn't become a standard feature in every >$10 meter by now. The electronics to implement it are not exotic, single IC solutions are a few dollars each from reputable companies, surely it could be baked into a low cost DMM on a chip solution?

I agree. There's no good reason why not, even if it's only 8-bit accuracy.

Adding a fast 8-bit converter to a DMM chip would cost practically nothing.

Maybe next year we'll all be replacing our $15 ANENGs with a newer model. 

[Mark Hennessy]

has a nice long backlight timeout

Have they changed this at last? The sample I reviewed last year had a 15 second backlight timeout. Whereas the newer ZT301 is a much more useful 2 minutes...

[ebastler]

Maybe next year we'll all be replacing our $15 ANENGs with a newer model. 

Maybe we will, but not for want of True RMS. The Aneng meters already have that, right?

[james_s]

has a nice long backlight timeout

Have they changed this at last? The sample I reviewed last year had a 15 second backlight timeout. Whereas the newer ZT301 is a much more useful 2 minutes...

Sure would be nice if it would just stay on until turned off. Let me decide how much battery life I want to sacrifice, it's super annoying to have something time out and turn off while I've got both hands full trying to probe something in a dark corner.

[Fungus]

Maybe next year we'll all be replacing our $15 ANENGs with a newer model. 

Maybe we will, but not for want of True RMS. The Aneng meters already have that, right?

The ones I've seen only work at mains AC frequencies, ie. 50/60Hz. They really don't work above 1kHz - useless for audio measurements, etc.

Disclaimer: I don't own all of them.

[precaud]

The ones I've seen only work at mains AC frequencies, ie. 50/60Hz. They really don't work above 1kHz - useless for audio measurements, etc.

My ZT301 is -3dB @ 2.8kHz relative to 100Hz level...

[Fungus]

The ones I've seen only work at mains AC frequencies, ie. 50/60Hz. They really don't work above 1kHz - useless for audio measurements, etc.

My ZT301 is -3dB @ 2.8kHz relative to 100Hz level...

-3dB isn't an accurate reading for power calculations - it's about half the true value.

[coromonadalix]

well you have this one for 34$ usd,  seems in the same look a like casing : https://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Multimeter-SURPEER-20000-Counts-Multi-Capacitor-Tester-True-RMS-Auto/132454340648?epid=24012343675&hash=item1ed6e4d828:g:BkYAAOSw8DJaSwf2

but never saw an real teardown of it

dont expect at 10$ up to 40$  having an good input protection

[precaud]

-3dB isn't an accurate reading for power calculations - it's about half the true value.

Doesn't matter. It's the accepted standard by which we compare lo-pass bandwidths.

[Fungus]

-3dB isn't an accurate reading for power calculations - it's about half the true value.

Doesn't matter. It's the accepted standard by which we compare lo-pass bandwidths.

Sure - in oscilloscopes.

In multimeters we want the actual RMS value.

[precaud]

What are you talking about? Seems like you're making a distinction without a relevant difference.

[Cerebus]

-3dB isn't an accurate reading for power calculations - it's about half the true value.

Doesn't matter. It's the accepted standard by which we compare lo-pass bandwidths.

Sure - in oscilloscopes.

What ARE you quibbling about? Anybody who knows their way around electronics ought to understand what someone means when they describe the -3dB cutoff of an instrument relative to some centre band frequency. The -3dB point on a bode plot is for any circuit or device, it's got nothing especially to do with oscilloscopes. The whole -3dB thing is so fundamental and universal that it's baked into  basic formulae such as f = 1/2piRC.

In multimeters we want the actual RMS value.

Firstly dB are ratios, whether that is in Watts, Amps or, as in this case, rms Volts. Secondly, what is an actual Volts rms value going to tell you that "-3 dB" doesn't tell you faster? It's a fair sight easier to understand a ratio as 3 dB than be presented with two numbers and have to work out for yourself if and whether they are in the ratio 1/sqrt(2).

[HKJ]

I'm actually kind of surprised that TRMS hasn't become a standard feature in every >$10 meter by now. The electronics to implement it are not exotic, single IC solutions are a few dollars each from reputable companies, surely it could be baked into a low cost DMM on a chip solution?

It is a standard feature on new generation cheap DMM's and is baked into the DMM chip. Check the Aneng meters.
But the price is closer to $20.

[Fungus]

Firstly dB are ratios, whether that is in Watts, Amps or, as in this case, rms Volts. Secondly, what is an actual Volts rms value going to tell you that "-3 dB" doesn't tell you faster? It's a fair sight easier to understand a ratio as 3 dB than be presented with two numbers and have to work out for yourself if and whether they are in the ratio 1/sqrt(2).

I'm not saying that -3dB can't be applied to multimeters, I'm saying it's not useful to do so.

I think that "My 860B+ gives good readings up to 1kHz but not above that" is a useful fact to memorize.

"My ZT301 is -3dB @ 2.8kHz relative to 100Hz level" is less useful (what's the rolloff, where does it start?).

[Fungus]

What are you talking about? Seems like you're making a distinction without a relevant difference.

Ok, please explain to us why multimeter specifications don't list a -3dB point. 

eg. Here's the Fluke 87V manual, where's the -3dB point?

[Maxlor]

What matters to me is at which frequency a meter goes outside its advertized accuracy specifications. And a meter that specified +- 29% is not one I'd buy.

[Electro Detective]

I'd like to see how 'True'  these $10.95 car wheel chocs with al dente spaghetti quality leads read TRMS with a crappy sinewave
compared to a real TRMS meter

Come on guys, ask Santa or the Easter Bunny if he's still hopping about, to sort you out with a decent meter   


Hoping that many cheap meter lovers here don't also shop around for  OHL  $10.95 electric power tools and use the OHL $10.95 meter to troubleshoot them   

[HKJ]

I'd like to see how 'True'  these $10.95 car wheel chocs with al dente spaghetti quality leads read TRMS with a crappy sinewave
compared to a real TRMS meter

On a 50Hz square wave:
DMM7510: 1.0000xx
Aneng AN870: 0.9958

On a 50Hz square wave with 10% duty cycle:
DMM7510: 0.5993xx
Aneng AN870: 0.5927

[Fungus]

I'd like to see how 'True'  these $10.95 car wheel chocs with al dente spaghetti quality leads read TRMS with a crappy sinewave
compared to a real TRMS meter

On a 50Hz square wave:
DMM7510: 1.0000xx
Aneng AN870: 0.9958

On a 50Hz square wave with 10% duty cycle:
DMM7510: 0.5993xx
Aneng AN870: 0.5927

What if you go higher frequency? Can the fancy 870 go above 1kHz?

[ebastler]

I'd like to see how 'True'  these $10.95 car wheel chocs with al dente spaghetti quality leads read TRMS with a crappy sinewave
compared to a real TRMS meter

Come on guys, ask Santa or the Easter Bunny if he's still hopping about, to sort you out with a decent meter   

Hoping that many cheap meter lovers here don't also shop around for  OHL  $10.95 electric power tools and use the OHL $10.95 meter to troubleshoot them   

Thank you for the golden words of wisdom, oh Professional One who can justify/afford an expensive meter...

[HKJ]

What if you go higher frequency? Can the fancy 870 go above 1kHz?

It is 5% down at around 2kHz, i.e. RMS is not really usable above a few 100Hz.

[Fungus]

What if you go higher frequency? Can the fancy 870 go above 1kHz?

It is 5% down at around 2kHz, i.e. RMS is not really usable above a few 100Hz.

I wouldn't call 5% "unusable", even the Fluke 87V is only 2% accurate at 2kHz.

My AN860B+ is about 12% down at 2kHz but quite linear up to that point so you could calculate a reasonably good value based on the reading shown on screen.

I made a graph::


I never really measure AC volts with that meter so I don't care. I have a meter that's 3% accurate up to 100kHz if I need one.

Edit: Fixed my graph!

[precaud]

Ok, please explain to us why multimeter specifications don't list a -3dB point. 
eg. Here's the Fluke 87V manual, where's the -3dB point?

I think you just enjoy being argumentative.
There's nothing wrong with either POV.

[Fungus]

I think you just enjoy being argumentative.

Ad hominem?

There's nothing wrong with either POV.

But I think we can assign different weights to them, based on context.

[Cerebus]

I think you just enjoy being argumentative.

Ad hominem?

Surely that should be ad fungum? Anyway, we all know you do like being, let's say, disputatious.