Keysight U1273A heavily discounted at Fry's

[mrnuke]

I picked a couple up from Fry's for under $250 a piece. There are only a few left in stock.. I think Campbell, Palo Alto and Sacramento stores still have some in stock. Not sure about stores outside the bay area. Great deal if you've wanted to pick up those OLED display multimeters.

[texaspyro]

I would avoid the OLED display models like the plague.   The OLEDs deteriorate over time and become unusable... even if the meter is not used.   Plus they are not visible outdoors.  HP does not sell replacements. 

There is a thread on the forum about finding a replacement OLED module, but so far no joy.  The closest replacement found so far displays the image reversed right-to-left.

Display failures are a major cause of otherwise excellent test equipment becoming useless...  VFDs, plasmas, and (many) LCDs all have age related failure modes and since the equipment uses customized displays, once the display fails, the unit is trash.

[rsjsouza]

TBH, everything has a lifespan. The fact a unit can give you two, three or four decades of service work is quite good. As you said, all technologies have their achilles' heel and, if you like the visibility or appearance of OLED or VFD,  avoid using them simply due to their lifespan is foolish.
And yes, I do have LCD, LED and OLED units.

[texaspyro]

And it's foolish to spend $250+ for a meter with a known defect that can limit its life to around 5 years.  I know a lab that had half a dozen of these meters and they are all now unusable... including one that was never used. 

OLED displays are gorgeous, but are still not ready for prime time, even today.   The Pixel 2 phone OLEDs (the high end model) are showing burn-in effects after a week of use.  And those displays have a decade of manufacturing and process improvements over the 1273A displays.

[tooki]

I would avoid the OLED display models like the plague.   The OLEDs deteriorate over time and become unusable... even if the meter is not used.   Plus they are not visible outdoors.  HP does not sell replacements. 

There is a thread on the forum about finding a replacement OLED module, but so far no joy.  The closest replacement found so far displays the image reversed right-to-left.

Nonsense. I even provided a link to a supplier of a known-compatible replacement. The mirrored text is in someone’s attempt to use an (incompatible) LCD instead.

[tooki]

OLED displays are gorgeous, but are still not ready for prime time, even today.   The Pixel 2 phone OLEDs (the high end model) are showing burn-in effects after a week of use.  And those displays have a decade of manufacturing and process improvements over the 1273A displays.

Tell that to LG: their OLED TVs are holding up just fine, as are many other OLED products. It comes down to the specific display quality, not the technology as a whole.

[texaspyro]

OLED displays are gorgeous, but are still not ready for prime time, even today.   The Pixel 2 phone OLEDs (the high end model) are showing burn-in effects after a week of use.  And those displays have a decade of manufacturing and process improvements over the 1273A displays.

Tell that to LG: their OLED TVs are holding up just fine, as are many other OLED products. It comes down to the specific display quality, not the technology as a whole.

My friend that bought an LG OLED TV did tell it to LG...  burnin and color/brightness shifts showing after a few months.  Modern OLEDs are a LOT better than earlier ones but they still seem to have issues.  The blue LEDs seem to be particularly troublesome.  The TV was fantastic looking when it was new.  I look forward to the day when OLED screens can be trusted to last more than a few thousand hours.

[Muttley Snickers]

The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long and costs four times its original value, that's if you are lucky enough to hunt one down.   

[ebclr]

[texaspyro]

Yep,  test equipment displays are a pet peeve of mine.   Take, for instance, the HP-531xx freq counters.  They use a custom VFD display and, like all VFD displays, they have a finite life time.   HP used to sell a replacement VFD for around $75.  Wonderful... fair price... I'll take a dozen.   Now, when (not if) your display goes dim it will only cost you $1800 to fix it... they now only sell a complete front panel board.   It has the VFD, a $4 driver chip,  the footprints for the rubber button contacts, and a ribbon cable header.

I have a project on the back burner for a replacement front panel board using an generic graphic LCD and a cheap microcontroller... might cost as much as $50 to build.  I know of companies that scrap dozens of these excellent counters every year just because of weak VFDs and the stupid cost of replacements.  I'd love to build it with an OLED display, but, well, you know.

A few years ago I replaced the 2x20 LCD module in a Tek AWG.  The module used a standard Hitachi controller and used an EL backlight (that has a limited lifetime).  The replacement was an OLED version. It was truly awesome looking display... for a year.

[nowlan]

https://www.frys.com/product/7363154

Boo. No online shipping. They have a little search tool, postcode, etc.

edit: a few other models, say clearance.
https://www.frys.com/search?cat=-73850&nearbyStoreName=false&pType=pDisplay&fq=m10099998%20KEYSIGHT%20TECHNOLOGIES

[rsjsouza]

And it's foolish to spend $250+ for a meter with a known defect that can limit its life to around 5 years.  I know a lab that had half a dozen of these meters and they are all now unusable... including one that was never used. 

Anedoctal evidence, but that seems to me it may have been a defective lot. As another piece of anecdotal evidence, on the lab i work, several equipments have  OLED displays running for quite a number of years without fading. My own 2014 manufactured (2017 purchased) U1273A is holding quite well. Also, as bluekull mentioned, it beats the crap of almost everything else indoors.

OLED displays are gorgeous, but are still not ready for prime time, even today.   The Pixel 2 phone OLEDs (the high end model) are showing burn-in effects after a week of use.  And those displays have a decade of manufacturing and process improvements over the 1273A displays.

The pixel density and update rate of a consumer equipment screen stretches the boundaries of the technology, which is certainly NOT the case for test gear. Any display technology has problems, even your own VFD examples or non-organic LED displays. 

[chickenHeadKnob]

TBH, everything has a lifespan. The fact a unit can give you two, three or four decades of service work is quite good. As you said, all technologies have their achilles' heel and, if you like the visibility or appearance of OLED or VFD,  avoid using them simply due to their lifespan is foolish.
And yes, I do have LCD, LED and OLED units.

What OLED can last even 2 decades! This is routine for plain old LCDs. Expected  lifespan for a multimeter greatly exceeds that for cell phones and other consumer crap.

[rsjsouza]

<youtube video here>

Cool video, ebclr. However, I don't think this is a calculated move to obsolete the product but instead simply the use of a new display technology - like many others that have been used in the past with varying degrees of success.

TBH, everything has a lifespan. The fact a unit can give you two, three or four decades of service work is quite good. As you said, all technologies have their achilles' heel and, if you like the visibility or appearance of OLED or VFD,  avoid using them simply due to their lifespan is foolish.
And yes, I do have LCD, LED and OLED units.

What OLED can last even 2 decades! This is routine for plain old LCDs. Expected  lifespan for a multimeter greatly exceeds that for cell phones and other consumer crap.

You don't know how long current commercial OLED lasts. Nobody really knows as its track record is not long enough. I agree that maybe 20 years may be a stretch, but your guess is as good as mine at this point. 

[Mr. Scram]

Why gamble when you have an alternative you know will last?

[cncjerry]

I almost grabbed one of those at Frys in Sacramento but I have the 1252B and had heard about the OLED issue.  I've always had a problem with the 1252 in normal light though so maybe the OLED would be easier to see.

But for that price I think it is a good buy if you need another meter, like we always do.

Jerry

[mrnuke]

Guys, (and ladies)!  I posted this for individuals who would like the OLED version of the meter, but were otherwise unable to obtain it. I understand there are people who think OLED is an unproven technology, but it seems that the arguments brought here are meant to impose their will on those who like the OLED technology.

Now, I am certain there is a certain crowd who takes carnal pleasure in viewing LCD displays in direct sunlight. I however, would like to view the display for longer than the five or so minutes it takes the reflected UV radiation to permanently blind me.

[tooki]

OLED displays are gorgeous, but are still not ready for prime time, even today.   The Pixel 2 phone OLEDs (the high end model) are showing burn-in effects after a week of use.  And those displays have a decade of manufacturing and process improvements over the 1273A displays.

Tell that to LG: their OLED TVs are holding up just fine, as are many other OLED products. It comes down to the specific display quality, not the technology as a whole.

My friend that bought an LG OLED TV did tell it to LG...  burnin and color/brightness shifts showing after a few months.  Modern OLEDs are a LOT better than earlier ones but they still seem to have issues.  The blue LEDs seem to be particularly troublesome.  The TV was fantastic looking when it was new.  I look forward to the day when OLED screens can be trusted to last more than a few thousand hours.

An early one or a recent one? I thought that reviews of recent ones (like, the past year or two) indicated very good resistance to burn-in, supposedly comparable to CRTs.

FWIW, my home cinema is built around a Panasonic plasma TV, the other "ermagherd burn-in!" technology, and it's almost 9 years old without a hint of burn-in. I watch enough vintage 4:3 pillarboxed TV that one could imagine the center area being worn out more, but I can't see any such damage, even when showing a blank white screen, and knowing where to look! So if there is any wear, it's below my visual acuity, and I'm really, really, really good at color.

Of course, my plasma is used as a TV, and the Apple TV settop box has a screen saver set, so it's living a normal life. Plasmas used as info displays in airports, digital billboards, etc. absolutely do experience burn-in, just like CRTs used for that. (And even some LCDs.)

Note that plasma experiences another effect, transient image persistence, which is sometimes mistakenly called burn-in. But it's actually a charge build up in the pixels, and it manifests as the opposite of burn-in, in that those pixels get stuck slightly brighter than they should be, whereas burned pixels lose brightness. But this goes away after a few minutes, or by just playing some video to exercise the panel.

[swixo]

Just bought one of these meters today at Frys,  They have them left in Palo Alto only as of now at $240.  New in box.

a few warnings:
1. The software is v1.9, 3 years old.  You need the IR adapter $30 more to flash it.
2. The "Protective" plastic on the display was stuck on so hard that the GOO was left behind and will be
  difficult to remove - these meters look to be manufactured in 2015, so they have had time to get stuck.

Otherwise things look pretty good with it.
At $240 - cant complain too much, but I wish Keysight had done a better job with the display film.

s

[wraper]

Just bought one of these meters today at Frys,  They have them left in Palo Alto only as of now at $240.  New in box.

a few warnings:
1. The software is v1.9, 3 years old.  You need the IR adapter $30 more to flash it.
2. The "Protective" plastic on the display was stuck on so hard that the GOO was left behind and will be
  difficult to remove - these meters look to be manufactured in 2015, so they have had time to get stuck.

Otherwise things look pretty good with it.
At $240 - cant complain too much, but I wish Keysight had done a better job with the display film.

s

Bummer, if it's that old, it has EMI susceptibility issue. Keysight gave free replacement multimeter and you could keep the old one. Offer ended on 31-Dec-2017

[mrnuke]

Just bought one of these meters today at Frys,  They have them left in Palo Alto only as of now at $240.  New in box.

What? I thought I cleaned out the Palo Alto store a few months ago. I'm happy I missed some, so others can get in on the deal.

As far as the EMI issue, I think the fix was to replace some ferrite beads with zero ohm resistors. Dave has a video on it.

[lowimpedance]

Just bought one of these meters today at Frys,  They have them left in Palo Alto only as of now at $240.  New in box.

What? I thought I cleaned out the Palo Alto store a few months ago. I'm happy I missed some, so others can get in on the deal.

As far as the EMI issue, I think the fix was to replace some ferrite beads with zero ohm resistors. Dave has a video on it.

And the resulting thread where forum members did the mods. has all the info needed.
Note however that the mod will affect the OHMS cal. And you will have to complete the full OHMS function cal. not just a zero to correct for it.
If you can live without doing the OHMS cal. then no problem.

[bson]

Green, red, and yellow OLEDs are extremely long lasting.  It's blue that's problematic.  This is why RGB displays used to color shift and burn in patterns, but a green, yellow or red monochrome display isn't going to have that problem.  This is from 2011 and blue has improved (TVs tend to overprovision blue and then adjust the hue as they age), but it's still not comparable to red, green, or yellow which are roughly on par with LEDs.  https://www.oled-info.com/udc-pholed-material-performance-update-green-now-reaches-14-million-hours

[wraper]

Not every oled display is equal. Display used in 1273 is early design, therefore has short life.

[rsjsouza]

Not every oled display is equal. Display used in 1273 is early design, therefore has short life.

The reported issues in another thread were on U1253, which are even earlier designs. Apart from texaspyro's report, I don't recall anybody else with issues on U1273. Besides, if the problem is focused on the color blue these displays are yellow monochrome.

BTW, mine is still going strong (used daily). I hope it stays that way.

[texaspyro]

The reported issues in another thread were on U1253, which are even earlier designs. Apart from texaspyro's report, I don't recall anybody else with issues on U1273. Besides, if the problem is focused on the color blue these displays are yellow monochrome.

There is a thread on the travails of people trying to replace their failed U1253 displays.   And it's not just power-on hours that is an issue.   There are reports of dim / failed displays on never/seldom used units.  Sounds like the displays were not properly sealed...

[rsjsouza]

The reported issues in another thread were on U1253, which are even earlier designs. Apart from texaspyro's report, I don't recall anybody else with issues on U1273. Besides, if the problem is focused on the color blue these displays are yellow monochrome.

There is a thread on the travails of people trying to replace their failed U1253 displays.   And it's not just power-on hours that is an issue.   There are reports of dim / failed displays on never/seldom used units.  Sounds like the displays were not properly sealed...

Yes, I know that thread and the sealing is certainly the culprit. Unfortunately I don't know if the U1253 is significantly different than the U1273 in terms of display technology. If they used the same (or a similar) display, then a large amount of 1273s will eventually become Flukes 8020A/8050As and their leaky displays in just a few more years. Otherwise, the durability data is still very blurry. 

[wraper]

Yes, I know that thread and the sealing is certainly the culprit. Unfortunately I don't know if the U1253 is significantly different than the U1273 in terms of display technology. If they used the same (or a similar) display, then a large amount of 1273s will eventually become Flukes 8020A/8050As and their leaky displays in just a few more years. Otherwise, the durability data is still very blurry.

I won't check it, but IIRC they have same display.
EDIT: maybe U1253B had the same display and U1253A something different.

[rsjsouza]

Yes, I know that thread and the sealing is certainly the culprit. Unfortunately I don't know if the U1253 is significantly different than the U1273 in terms of display technology. If they used the same (or a similar) display, then a large amount of 1273s will eventually become Flukes 8020A/8050As and their leaky displays in just a few more years. Otherwise, the durability data is still very blurry.

I won't check it, but IIRC they have same display.
EDIT: maybe U1253B had the same display and U1253A something different.

Maybe or maybe not - the U125x is still the old Escort design, while the U127x seems built at Agilent from the ground up. The display itself looks the same across the board. 

If Keysight is to be believed, their OLED replacement part is only applicable to the U1253B - neither U1253A nor U1273A.

[wraper]

Maybe or maybe not - the U125x is still the old Escort design, while the U127x seems built at Agilent from the ground up. The display itself looks the same across the board. 

If Keysight is to be believed, their OLED replacement part is only applicable to the U1253B - neither U1253A nor U1273A.

That's display with a board. Display itself is tab soldered so not supposed to be replaced separately.

[swixo]

Another Warning for you:

Keysight starts the warranty from the date they sold it to Frys.  NOT THE DAY YOU BUY IT.
So this brand new meter has exactly 2 months left on the 3 year warranty.  Keysight confirmed
this on the phone with me today.

Time to switch to Fluke.  This is Sad.

s

[lowimpedance]

Another Warning for you:

Keysight starts the warranty from the date they sold it to Frys.  NOT THE DAY YOU BUY IT.
So this brand new meter has exactly 2 months left on the 3 year warranty.  Keysight confirmed
this on the phone with me today.

Time to switch to Fluke.  This is Sad.

s

Seriously....  , so anyone buying from Frys is effectively getting a second hand meter ?!. That doesn't sound right  .

[wraper]

Another Warning for you:

Keysight starts the warranty from the date they sold it to Frys.  NOT THE DAY YOU BUY IT.
So this brand new meter has exactly 2 months left on the 3 year warranty.  Keysight confirmed
this on the phone with me today.

Time to switch to Fluke.  This is Sad.

s

Dunno what Keysight confirmed to you. But warranty you check on the website by serial number is only for reference. If you have purchase document from distributor, it counts from sale date.

[mrnuke]

Keysight starts the warranty from the date they sold it to Frys.  NOT THE DAY YOU BUY IT.
So this brand new meter has exactly 2 months left on the 3 year warranty.  Keysight confirmed

Dunno what Keysight confirmed to you. But warranty you check on the website by serial number is only for reference. If you have purchase document from distributor, it counts from sale date.

It's quite possible the Keysight rep had no idea. These instruments don't fail on a daily basis.

[swixo]

I didn't believe it either.  But the Keysight support rep AND their manager confirmed this.
And put it into email writing to me with highlighting.

As far as Keysight is concerned, FRYS bought the meter.  The warranty started then.
Legal or not, this is what they say.  Would it hold up in court?  Who knows.

They are repairing the EMC problem reported elsewhere under warranty.  Because
the warranty on this brand new unit still has 2 months on it.

Disappointing

[mrnuke]

I didn't believe it either.  But the Keysight support rep AND their manager confirmed this.
And put it into email writing to me with highlighting.

I'd like to see that email, because I think this is not right. I bought a 1253B display unit from Frys, which was way out of warranty. I sent Keysight the receipt, which even said "open box", and they updated the warranty from the date of the sale.

[mrnuke]

Sorry, It was a U1273A where they did this.

[tooki]

Another Warning for you:

Keysight starts the warranty from the date they sold it to Frys.  NOT THE DAY YOU BUY IT.
So this brand new meter has exactly 2 months left on the 3 year warranty.  Keysight confirmed
this on the phone with me today.

Time to switch to Fluke.  This is Sad.

s

This is one of two options of how companies provide warranties absent a proof of purchase: warrant it from the date it shipped from the manufacturer. (The other option is to provide no warranty whatsoever without a proof of purchase.)

But with the proof of purchase, that date is what matters.

[Keysight Technologies Rep]

Keysight's warranty process for products purchased from a Keysight distributor or retailer is to reset the warranty period to begin on the date the product is purchased from the distributor or retailer.  You can proactively contact Keysight with the proof of purchase receipt and we can reset the warranty period to begin on the purchase date. 

If you purchased a Keysight product  from Fry's and is having a warranty issue please contact social.media@keysight.com and we will get the warranty reset based on your purchase receipt.  Keysight apologizes for the miscommunication about our warranty policy.

[rsjsouza]

Thank you for this. I will go ahead and provide the necessary info for my U1273A purchased last year from Fry's. 

[TheSteve]

Keysight's warranty process for products purchased from a Keysight distributor or retailer is to reset the warranty period to begin on the date the product is purchased from the distributor or retailer.  You can proactively contact Keysight with the proof of purchase receipt and we can reset the warranty period to begin on the purchase date. 

If you purchased a Keysight product  from Fry's and is having a warranty issue please contact social.media@keysight.com and we will get the warranty reset based on your purchase receipt.  Keysight apologizes for the miscommunication about our warranty policy.

When did this policy change? It was made pretty clear by many different Keysight reps the warranty started when the product was manufactured.

[swixo]

Keysight's warranty process for products purchased from a Keysight distributor or retailer is to reset the warranty period to begin on the date the product is purchased from the distributor or retailer.  You can proactively contact Keysight with the proof of purchase receipt and we can reset the warranty period to begin on the purchase date. 

If you purchased a Keysight product  from Fry's and is having a warranty issue please contact social.media@keysight.com and we will get the warranty reset based on your purchase receipt.  Keysight apologizes for the miscommunication about our warranty policy.

According to Keysight - Frys is not an authorized dealer - so no dice.  I am OK on the issue
today because the warranty has as of now 4 weeks left.  But they made it very clear -> Come May 2018,
the warranty is over - after having bought it 2 weeks ago.

Argue with me all you want - this is what they said in more than one email.  It's a disgrace.

[tridentsx]

FRY's used to be authorized.
I bought a store demo Agilent scope for $450 about a year ago. This was when Fry's still was authorized dealer but they were getting out of reselling Agilent/keysight equipment. My scope already had been registered and warranty was only 3 years left. I showed the receipt and Agilent changed the warranty to start at my purchase date.

[bson]

You still have a statutory 90 day warranty from Fry's though.

[rsjsouza]

I just had my warranty reset to the date of purchase of my Fry's store bought U1273A - I sent them a copy of my receipt (dated back to March 2017), the serial number of my product and a link to the rep post above. No questions asked.

[Keysight Technologies Rep]

Keysight's warranty process for products purchased from a Keysight distributor or retailer is to reset the warranty period to begin on the date the product is purchased from the distributor or retailer.  You can proactively contact Keysight with the proof of purchase receipt and we can reset the warranty period to begin on the purchase date. 

If you purchased a Keysight product  from Fry's and is having a warranty issue please contact social.media@keysight.com and we will get the warranty reset based on your purchase receipt.  Keysight apologizes for the miscommunication about our warranty policy.

According to Keysight - Frys is not an authorized dealer - so no dice.  I am OK on the issue
today because the warranty has as of now 4 weeks left.  But they made it very clear -> Come May 2018,
the warranty is over - after having bought it 2 weeks ago.

Argue with me all you want - this is what they said in more than one email.  It's a disgrace.

Hi Swixo, Keysight is sorry that you have received incorrect warranty information from Keysight. While it is true that Fry’s is no longer an authorized Keysight retailer, Keysight still provides full warranty based on purchase date as Fry’s liquidates their Keysight inventory. We want you to receive the warranty period you are entitled to receive so please contact us at social.media@keysight.com.

[Berni]

I have a U1273A for i think over 5 years and i used it a decent amount. No burn in is visible on it, tho i do have the display brightness set lower as indoors its still very perfectly visible on lower settings and it brings the battery life past what some LCD DMMs get on 9V batteries.

Yes i would expect the display to deteriorate somewhat in the span of 25 years, but even LCDs sometimes start failing after such a long time. Out of all the DMMs(Like 5 of them, not counting benchtop ones) i have i keep using my U1273 the most because i really got used to how well readable the display is compared to LCD. Yes outdoors its not so great but i can just use one of my other 4 DMMs for the rare occasion i might need to measure something outdoors, this is a meter that excels on the electronics workbench.

The meter is still holding its calibration down to +/- 1 count of the last digit on DCV, DCA and Ohms after all these years.

[swixo]

Hi Swixo, Keysight is sorry that you have received incorrect warranty information from Keysight. While it is true that Fry’s is no longer an authorized Keysight retailer, Keysight still provides full warranty based on purchase date as Fry’s liquidates their Keysight inventory. We want you to receive the warranty period you are entitled to receive so please contact us at social.media@keysight.com.

Thank You!

[electrolust]

I would avoid the OLED display models like the plague.   The OLEDs deteriorate over time and become unusable... even if the meter is not used.   Plus they are not visible outdoors.  HP does not sell replacements. 

There is a thread on the forum about finding a replacement OLED module, but so far no joy.  The closest replacement found so far displays the image reversed right-to-left.

Nonsense. I even provided a link to a supplier of a known-compatible replacement. The mirrored text is in someone’s attempt to use an (incompatible) LCD instead.

Would you repost / link directly to that thread? I can't find it.