Lcr Tweezers

[Ig_sherwood]

Some years ago ,as i can remember there was Smart Tweezer ST5S from Canadian company like Siborg : *http://www.smarttweezers.com/st5s*
However today i've spotted another one ,very good lcr tweezer ,the LCR Pro1 : *http://www.lcrresearch.com/pro1*
I really wish to buy one of them,especially the LCR Pro1 which looks fantanstic.
So did you never had an experience by using 1 of these instruments ?
Did you think one is better then other ?
If yes which would be better to buy ?
Thanks for your help

[Ig_sherwood]

P.S
The only 1 thing is bothering me too much and also crushing my balls in thousands of pieces.
From batterfly.com this accessory http://tinyurl.com/zwtj4ej piece of bull__it or junk cost around 50 euros ....
Is that possible to make an diy with the same functions ?
also because i don't think there are more then a few of transistors and caps,right ?

[HighVoltage]

Interesting that both come from Canada.
Hmm, may be they are the same company or work together?

This LCR Pro1 looks very nice but $ 410 retail price is pretty high for a pair of tweezers.
The logging function seems to be especially nice and handy.

[Ig_sherwood]

This LCR Pro1 looks very nice but $ 410 retail price is pretty high for a pair of tweezers.

On batterfy.com i can buy the pro1 for just 250 euros + another 50 euros for that junky piece of LCR Link1 USB dongle.
However ,in my personal opinion the PRO1 was cloned in CHINA from the original st5s and sold in canada like it was developed there,its some kind of trick i think.

[tautech]

Advance Devices Inc made the originals:
http://www.smarttweezers.com/

I've had a set of their early Smart Tweezers ST3 for many years but their STS5S is now their flagship model.
There was much $ pain and uncertainty when I bought mine but I would replace them in an instant.
I use them more than a DMM, TH, SMD or anything but ensure any circuit is powered down and caps discharged.

Highly recommended. 

[Jester]

I have this low cost version.

[tautech]

I have this low cost version.

I tried one of those too.....just to compare it to my ST3......POS, gave it to a customer.

Look, it does the basics OK, just that's all.

It's only fair to add: For a hobbyist into SMD and for their price they're good value, just nowhere near the class of anything from AD.

[Ig_sherwood]

Ehhhmm... Gentlemen ?!?

So..... LCR PRO1 OR ST5S ?
if im not wrong ,the LCR PRO1 can run the self test and self calibration ,ST5S can't do that .

[tautech]

So..... LCR PRO1 OR ST5S ?
if im not wrong ,the LCR PRO1 can run the self test and self calibration ,ST5S can't do that .

From the LCR PRO1 website:
Each device is fully calibrated during production and shipped with NIST (National Institute of Standards and Technology) traceable calibration certificate.

Smart Tweezers
From the ST5S datasheet:
Calibration: Recommended interval 1 year NIST traceable calibration.

What is not clear is if a ST5S does the same self tests "behind the scenes" invisibly.
The ST5S may have a "publically undocumented" POST that achieves the same thing or when using the Autoset button.

To be clear, just because an instrument can "self cal" or "self test" doesn't mean a formal Calibration is not necessary.

Regardless I've never had reason to doubt the hobbyist level of accuracy I need in ~15 years of ownership.


Anyway, good question and one for the Tech support of each company.

[David Hess]

I would rather have the DE-5000 or DE-6000 LCR meter with the tweezers accessory.

Embedded irreplaceable batteries in test equipment are always a disappointment and rechargeable ones are even more so.

[tautech]

I would rather have the DE-5000 or DE-6000 LCR meter with the tweezers accessory.

Embedded irreplaceable batteries in test equipment are always a disappointment and rechargeable ones are even more so.

My ST3 uses LR44's.

[HighVoltage]

So..... LCR PRO1 OR ST5S ?
if im not wrong ,the LCR PRO1 can run the self test and self calibration ,ST5S can't do that .

I have asked Advance Devices Inc (Maker of the ST5S) about the LCR Pro1.
The answer was that it is a Chinese knockoff of their original product.
So, I would stay away from it.

I have the ST5S also for a long time and I am very happy with it ... highly recommended.

[David Hess]

I would rather have the DE-5000 or DE-6000 LCR meter with the tweezers accessory.

Embedded irreplaceable batteries in test equipment are always a disappointment and rechargeable ones are even more so.

 
My ST3 uses LR44's.

That is not so bad then.  The one I checked has a rechargeable lithium polymer battery so carefully check all of the datasheets.

I would still prefer the DE-5000 or DE-6000.

[tautech]

This is what would give me great confidence in AD's products:

We are proud that featured and other R&D-intensive companies, agencies and production sites use Smart Tweezers™ LCR meter.

[Circuitous]

I did a series of reviews on various LCR tweezers. 
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnY7rMptA7ZxeltZcVXKyE42Auxc9AsT_

Some of the cheaper ones have some value, but the real winner was the ST5S.  I bought all of the units tested, the only ones that I would buy again are the ST5S.  But, the Mastech MS8910 isn't bad for about $25

[tautech]

I did a series of reviews on various LCR tweezers. 
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnY7rMptA7ZxeltZcVXKyE42Auxc9AsT_

Some of the cheaper ones have some value, but the real winner was the ST5S.  I bought all of the units tested, the only ones that I would buy again are the ST5S.  But, the Mastech MS8910 isn't bad for about $25

@ Circuitous
Can you check if your details and channel is listed here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/other-blog-specific/dd/

Post your details so ez24 can update the list.

[jjoonathan]

Well it looks like the "Chinese knockoff", unlike the original ST5S, took Dave's suggestion (made during the ST3S timeframe) of 100kHz test frequency to heart 

[Ig_sherwood]

Well it looks like the "Chinese knockoff", unlike the original ST5S, took Dave's suggestion (made during the ST3S timeframe) of 100kHz test frequency to heart 

My english is poor,pls can you explain your self more clearly ?
What did you mean with your statment ?

[Ig_sherwood]

I have asked Advance Devices Inc (Maker of the ST5S) about the LCR Pro1.
The answer was that it is a Chinese knockoff of their original product.
So, I would stay away from it.

I have the ST5S also for a long time and I am very happy with it ... highly recommended.

Scusme sir ,so this means that i was right ?
In my previous post i wrote that maybe the lcr pro1 is just a chinese clone of the original st5s,just  sold in canada like it was developed there.

However ,can you show me that siborg has really respond to you ?
Thanks.

[jjoonathan]

Well it looks like the "Chinese knockoff", unlike the original ST5S, took Dave's suggestion (made during the ST3S timeframe) of 100kHz test frequency to heart 

My english is poor,pls can you explain your self more clearly ?
What did you mean with your statment ?

Sorry. Hopefully this translates better.

Dave's 2010 review of the ST3 says that it is missing one feature: 100kHz test frequency. The ST3 only goes to 10kHz. Many capacitors specify ESR at 100kHz because 100kHz is closer to the frequency in a switched-mode power supply. Now it is 2017, 7 years later. The ST3 has been replaced by the ST5. The ST5 still only goes to 10kHz. The makers of ST3 and ST5 did not listen to Dave.

The "Chinese knockoff" LCR Pro goes to 100kHz. It also looks like it has a nicer screen and more detailed manual than the ST3. The word "knockoff" does not just mean "similar", it also suggests inferior quality and lack of innovation. However, the LCR Pro might be a better product with more attention to detail. Unless someone buys a LCR pro and discovers that it is bad I would not call the LCR Pro a "knockoff". Instead I would call it a legitimate competitor until proven otherwise.

[Ig_sherwood]

Lcr Pro1 has :
5 test frequencies – 100Hz, 120Hz, 1kHz, 10kHz, 100kHz

ST5S has :
4 test frequencies – 1 kHz, 10 kHz,  120Hz,100 Hz

[tautech]

Daves vid, ST3 IIRC:
https://www.eevblog.com/2010/04/25/eevblog-81-smart-tweezers-lcr-meter-review-and-teardown/

[HighVoltage]

I have asked Advance Devices Inc (Maker of the ST5S) about the LCR Pro1.
The answer was that it is a Chinese knockoff of their original product.
So, I would stay away from it.

I have the ST5S also for a long time and I am very happy with it ... highly recommended.

Scusme sir ,so this means that i was right ?
In my previous post i wrote that maybe the lcr pro1 is just a chinese clone of the original st5s,just  sold in canada like it was developed there.

However ,can you show me that siborg has really respond to you ?
Thanks.

Well, I will not post private email details here, but everyone else can ask them the same question.
I was told, that the Knockoff is from a Chinese company, pretending to be in Canada.

[Ig_sherwood]

Well, I will not post private email details here, but everyone else can ask them the same question.
I was told, that the Knockoff is from a Chinese company, pretending to be in Canada.

Maybe it's true or maybe not ,but what about to eliminate the competitors ?
Did you really think that someone likes to be the last in he's field ?
Maybe siborg has answear like that ,because they just don't like their new competitor 

[Circuitous]

I did a series of reviews on various LCR tweezers. 
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnY7rMptA7ZxeltZcVXKyE42Auxc9AsT_

Some of the cheaper ones have some value, but the real winner was the ST5S.  I bought all of the units tested, the only ones that I would buy again are the ST5S.  But, the Mastech MS8910 isn't bad for about $25

@ Circuitous
Can you check if your details and channel is listed here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/other-blog-specific/dd/

Post your details so ez24 can update the list.

Yes, I am listed correctly on the list of other blogs.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

[Ig_sherwood]

CONFIRMED !!!
LCR Pro1 is the chinese clone of the genuine st5s .

[bingo600]

I have this low cost version.

I have this too , and it does ok for my use.
Not POS for my use.

If i need better accuracy i just turn on my 34401A , or Mastech LCR.

But mostly i use it to verify/sort smd's when mixed by accident.



/Bingo

[LCR Research]

CONFIRMED !!!
LCR Pro1 is the chinese clone of the genuine st5s .

We, LCR Research, are a Canadian company proudly based in Toronto, Ontario. All research, development and manufacturing is also done in Canada. The LCR Pro1 provides 0.1% basic accuracy, 100kHz testing frequency, 2x larger display and wider measurement range. We are not “the Chinese clone of the genuine st5s”.

This conclusion that "the 100Khz frequency is virtually useless" is based on limited information. Here are some technical details to clarify the 100kHz performance question:

For 100kHz sinusoidal signal generation, the microprocessor’s DAC generate 10 points per period. Also, the DAC has 12-bit resolution and very stable time base set by 16MHz 10ppm crystal. The resulting signal has a THD (Total harmonics distortion) value less than 11%. To further reduce THD we use the 3-rd order low pass filter (not a 2-nd order one). This filter attenuates distortion by -60dB resulting in total THD value of less than 0.02%. This is more than enough to be used as an excitation signal in accurate LCR measurement. 

For the 100kHz sinusoidal signal processing we are doing 16 (not "8") samples per period. The 16 samples are used in generic formulas to calculate voltage and current amplitude and a relative phase shift. The 8 averaging samples are used to further improve accuracy. The proprietary software algorithms are used to enhance accuracy and measurement stability across full measurement range.

Regarding the 100KHz performance, please check out the attached pictures. The LCR Pro1 can measure small inductance in 100nH range accurately with 100KHz. This is not something a 10KHz device can do.

If you have any questions about our products, please contact us directly at sales@lcrresearch.com.

[amspire]

How can it be a clone if it has an additional 100KHz capability, an extra digit of resolution, and I assume their own custom microcontroller code? To be a clone, it has to be a copy.

It is not as if Smart Tweezers invented how to do the measurements. They didn't invent SMD tweezers. They may have been the first to implement an LCR measurement intosmd tweezers, but there has been room for improvement (my SmartTweezers ST-AD model build quality is really bad). Why shouldn't other companies make competitive products?

[apelly]

POS, gave it to a customer.

Ouch. Bad customer? 

[tautech]

POS, gave it to a customer.

Ouch. Bad customer? 

After having had some Smart Tweezers for a few years, curiosity got the better of me as the Mastech units were so cheap. So to be honest they didn't live up to expectation after using a premium product so they'd still be on the shelf if not passed on.
He was thankful for them, that's all that really matters.

[tigr]

100kHz testing frequency

Hi
Show an example of measuring a LOW ESR capacitor at 100kHz.
Samxon GA 3300uF/6,3v,Super Low Impedance,ESR 0,0065Ohm

[nikifena]

Guys. Check this russian smart tweezer. It's hard to find it over the net because the site is in russian.
http://www.rlc-esr.ru/index.php/pintset-nv14

Looks pretty good with great price.

[LCR Research]

100kHz testing frequency

Show an example of measuring a LOW ESR capacitor at 100kHz.

Hi Tigr, please see attached picture for the capacitor ESR result and the capacitor specification. It was measured by a LCR Pro1 Plus device. We couldn't find the same capacitor you tested, but the polymer capacitor we tested is with ESR 30mohm max which is pretty low as well. As you can see from the picture, at 100kHz test frequency, the LCR Pro1 Plus got reading around 17mohm.

[tigr]

Hi LCR Research,thanks.
And why not show the result of measuring this capacitor?
http://uk.farnell.com/panasonic-electronic-components/2sepc820my/cap-alu-elec-820uf-2-5v-rad/dp/2354628
If you have the opportunity to buy this capacitor, please measure the ESR at a frequency of 100kHz.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/16-pcs-0-5uF-250V-0-5-USSR-Military-K71-7-Polystyrene-capacitors-/201321663704

[LCR Research]

Hi Tigr, ESR is the resistance part of a capacitor. Therefore I selected the R mode and 100KHz test frequency to do the measurement according to the capacitor ESR specification. In order to measure capacitance accurately, it is required to set the test frequency properly. For a 100uF capacitor, we recommend to use 100Hz (or 120Hz) test frequency.

[tigr]

Hi LCR Research.
I'm interested in how your tweezers measure esr in the range 0-0.01Ohm. So I suggested to show the measurement result of esr of a polymer capacitor of 820uF at the frequency of 100 kHz indicated in the datasheet.
ESR-0,005Ohm(max.)
F-100-300kHz.
Instead of a polystyrene capacitor, please measure the ESR of a polypropylene capacitor at a frequency of 100 kHz (according to the datasheet).
ESR-0,0085Ohm
F-100kHz
http://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Vishay-Roederstein/MKP1848580454K2/?qs=i2mp%2Fn9EmlKz7nmDvW1A5A%3D%3D

[tigr]

APPA 707.
100kHz
Basic accuracy-0,2%
http://ph.rs-online.com/web/p/lcr-meter-accessories/1238652/

[andyred]

I for one tend not to trust companies which register their domain names under proxy registrant names like lcrresearch.com does. A serious company has nothing to hide, so the registrant could be a chinese company in this case until proven otherwise.

[xzswq21]

I want to buy a SMD tester. which one is better?

1-LCR research Pro 1 plus
2-SMART tweezer ST5S (with Bluetooth)
3- APPA 1707
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/lcr-meter-accessories/1238652/
4-http://www.rlc-esr.ru/index.php/pintset-nv14

I have been working with RF inductors such as 12nH from CoilCraft and low ESR capacitors and I should measure a very small capacitors such as 0.7pF to 1.6pF ....

Thanks

[Free_WiFi]

I want to buy a SMD tester. which one is better?

1-LCR research Pro 1 plus
2-SMART tweezer ST5S (with Bluetooth)
3- APPA 1707
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/lcr-meter-accessories/1238652/
4-http://www.rlc-esr.ru/index.php/pintset-nv14

I have been working with RF inductors such as 12nH from CoilCraft and low ESR capacitors and I should measure a very small capacitors such as 0.7pF to 1.6pF ....

Thanks

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Auto-LCR-Digital-Electric-Bridge-Resistance-Capacitance-Inductance-ESR-Meter-NEW/181367473225?hash=item2a3a580449:g:q3AAAOSwH09ZEpjZ

[Doctorandus_P]

I have a cheap Mastech MS8910 mostly for verifying the values of new SMD resistors and capacitors, and it works good enough for me. Inductor measurement would have been a nice extra though.

For my next meter I'd also much rather have the DE-5000 then a LCR tweezer.
I do not care much for it's bight yellow but it may make it easier to find it between all the clutter on my desk.

[beanflying]

You are missing one of the features of the better tweezers you can do in circuit testing. I just went through the process but I still haven't ruled out buying a DE-5000 as well.

Still coming to some conclusions on two of the Canadian offerings as I have a set of LCR Research and a set of Smart Tweezers to play with and am working out the good an bad of both.

Edit Thread here https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/truth-about-canadian-lcr-tweezer-manufacturers/msg2068102/#msg2068102