Author Topic: POWER DESIGNS PRECISION POWER SUPPLIES  (Read 331552 times)

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Offline mtdoc

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Re: POWER DESIGNS PRECISION POWER SUPPLIES
« Reply #600 on: October 13, 2015, 03:15:19 am »
Has anyone seen the 2015 Horowitz & Hill "Art of Electronics" 3rd ed. chapter on power supplies? They tested a lot of them including Agilent, etc. and the quietest model (apart from a lead-acid battery) was a Power Designs model.

It's in Figure 8.123 on p. 580. The PD4010 is a winner! They measured 1.2 uV rms for their 1967 vintage unit.

Cool! I hadn't looked at that figure before The HP 6114 is not far behind at 2 uV. Hooray for vintage power supplies!

I need to check my PD 2005A and 2010 to see how they compare.
 

Offline ez24

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Re: POWER DESIGNS PRECISION POWER SUPPLIES
« Reply #601 on: October 13, 2015, 04:43:37 am »

Quote
They measured 1.2 uV rms for their 1967 vintage unit.

Is this 1.2 ripple?

Can a Rigol DZ1054Z measure this 1.2 uV easily?  How to hook up? I am worried about stray signals.  And would this ripple be 60 Hz?  I tried to measure my 5020 once and failed because of noise.

If I ask this question under General, I will probably be laughed off this forum  :-DD

thanks

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Offline bitseeker

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Re: POWER DESIGNS PRECISION POWER SUPPLIES
« Reply #602 on: October 13, 2015, 04:48:49 am »
Yes, ripple. I don't think the 1054z is quiet enough to see it, but I don't recall what the exact noise floor is. There's sure to be a post about it.
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Offline eas

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Re: POWER DESIGNS PRECISION POWER SUPPLIES
« Reply #603 on: October 13, 2015, 07:00:15 am »

Quote
Quote
They measured 1.2 uV rms for their 1967 vintage unit.

Is this 1.2 ripple?

Can a Rigol DZ1054Z measure this 1.2 uV easily?  How to hook up? I am worried about stray signals.  And would this ripple be 60 Hz?  I tried to measure my 5020 once and failed because of noise.

If I ask this question under General, I will probably be laughed off this forum  :-DD


1. The DZ1000z series has, at best, 1mv resolution. Dynamic range is, what 10mv? The ADC has 8-bits of resolution. so, that's 10mV/256 = ~40uV resolution. Unless I've had a major lapse of brian-thingyness, it doesn't sound promising, at least not without a low noise pre-amp.

2. How to hook up?
« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 07:01:59 am by eas »
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: POWER DESIGNS PRECISION POWER SUPPLIES
« Reply #604 on: October 13, 2015, 07:44:25 am »

1. The DZ1000z series has, at best, 1mv resolution. Dynamic range is, what 10mv? The ADC has 8-bits of resolution. so, that's 10mV/256 = ~40uV resolution. Unless I've had a major lapse of brian-thingyness, it doesn't sound promising, at least not without a low noise pre-amp.


i.e., if you can see the ripple on your 1054z, the PD precision supply is waaay out of spec.
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Offline ez24

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Re: POWER DESIGNS PRECISION POWER SUPPLIES
« Reply #605 on: October 13, 2015, 04:21:29 pm »

1. The DZ1000z series has, at best, 1mv resolution. Dynamic range is, what 10mv? The ADC has 8-bits of resolution. so, that's 10mV/256 = ~40uV resolution. Unless I've had a major lapse of brian-thingyness, it doesn't sound promising, at least not without a low noise pre-amp.


i.e., if you can see the ripple on your 1054z, the PD precision supply is waaay out of spec.

Thanks bitseeker and eas.  Now I do not feel so bad.
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Offline SharpEars

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Re: POWER DESIGNS PRECISION POWER SUPPLIES
« Reply #606 on: October 13, 2015, 05:40:00 pm »
Well, that 2020B sure went fast. Looks like it sold for between $100 and $125.

I've got a 2020B I am going to sell at some point on eBay.
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: POWER DESIGNS PRECISION POWER SUPPLIES
« Reply #607 on: October 13, 2015, 09:35:17 pm »
Cool. What compelled you to sell it? Collection getting too big?
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Offline eas

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Re: POWER DESIGNS PRECISION POWER SUPPLIES
« Reply #608 on: October 22, 2015, 11:20:03 pm »
The PD 5020 came last week. I unpacked it and checked it over. The case is in pretty good shape, there are some rusted nicks, but not as many as on the case of my first 5020. I didn't see any obvious problems with any of the components, but when I powered it on, the AC light turns on, but is no output and the meter doesn't move. I haven't started troubleshooting it yet, beyond confirming the internal fuse was intact.

None of this was a surprise. The seller listed it as "For Parts/Repair" and knew enough to photograph the LM399 and pass transistors to show what physical state they were in. I bought it because the higher voltage/current precision supplies don't come up very often in working condition, or otherwise, the price was reasonable, and it came with not one, but three different printed manuals. Two different versions of the 5020 and one for the 6050.

The two 5020s manuals aren't identical, they are different versions.

The first seems to date from right around the original release of the 5020. It includes a number of pages that seem to have originated on a high-quality dot matrix printer. These cover the technical specs and parts list for the 5020. One prefaces the pages with the general description, operating instructions, and theory of operation with the explanation that the 5020 is an improved version of the 4010. The following pages are xeroxes of typewritten pages and refer to the 4010. The schematics at the end are for the 5020.

The second 5020 manual also covers the 2020b and C500. It seems to be of similar or identical vintage (Both have Rev G schematic drawings) to the scanned manual for those supplies I found online earlier this year. The image quality of my scan is much better, and they also have hidden OCRed versions of the text for searchability (not such a big deal on smaller manuals like these, but still nice to have)

I took some time to make high-quality scans of all three manuals, and I've posted them on my site (link below). I haven't uploaded them to KOBB or elsewhere yet. If someone else wants to, that's fine, though I'd hold for a week because I might post updates if I can manage to reduce the file-size significantly without a significant loss of quality. Right now they are about 30MB each.


I hope people find them useful.

If anyone has good printed manuals for any other PD supplies, it would be great if you could make good quality scans of at least the diagrams and share them. I'm personally looking for complete (or any) docs for the 2020 precision supply, and 6050a, 5005T, and 6010 bench supplies. I'd also love better quality versions of the TP340a and 2005a precision supply manuals.

Speaking of the 2005a, there is a complete manual/schematic available online, but the component layout diagram doesn't match the boards in my 2005a supplies, which both appear to have the same PCB but manufactured a few years apart. I've started trying to reverse-engineer my own annotated layout diagram, but if someone else has one, it would be great to see it and see if it saves me some trouble.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2015, 11:23:53 pm by eas »
 

Offline fpliuzzi

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Re: POWER DESIGNS PRECISION POWER SUPPLIES
« Reply #609 on: October 23, 2015, 01:45:59 am »
Thanks eas for taking the time to scan some of the Power Designs manuals. The 6050 manual will come in handy when I get the time to look into an anomaly in my 6050A.

Prior to your contribution, all I was able to find online was a fuzzy scan of the 6050A's schematic and another site had a copy of the supply's spec sheet.
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: POWER DESIGNS PRECISION POWER SUPPLIES
« Reply #610 on: October 23, 2015, 02:15:30 am »
Thanks for scanning and posting your manuals.  :-+  Excellent quality too. :clap:
 

Offline Ampere

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Re: POWER DESIGNS PRECISION POWER SUPPLIES
« Reply #611 on: October 25, 2015, 10:19:23 pm »
Does anyone have the manual or schematic for the 4050? It's my first (and only, so far) power supply and I would like to have some sort of reference to go by if I ever need to repair it.
 

Offline eas

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Re: POWER DESIGNS PRECISION POWER SUPPLIES
« Reply #612 on: November 10, 2015, 11:54:18 pm »
I've been saving every PD manual PDF I come across, but I don't have one for the 4050. There are some out there for the 3650, which I think is the previous generation of that model.

People interested in the precision supplies would do well to look on eBay right now. After a lean period, there are currently multiple units at reasonable prices.
I will say that this 2020b looks like one of the last of the old-style precision supplies. Don't be fooled by it at first glance, there are some obvious compromises in build quality, probably a result of both cost cutting, and discontinued products from suppliers.

There is also a late model 2040a for $129. It has none of the physical charm of the older units. It's in an off-the-shelf plastic enclosure that I've seen used on some ESI (or was it IET) equipment. The decade dials are thumbwheels. The only thing to recommend it is that it can output 4A, and, I assume still has the precision and stability of the older models.



 

Offline jeffsf

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Re: POWER DESIGNS PRECISION POWER SUPPLIES
« Reply #613 on: December 02, 2015, 11:40:42 pm »
Thanks to @nanofrog at pointing me in the direction of these older Power Designs supplies! With a couple of these in hand, I'm getting back to the point where my equally vintage skills can be applied again.

One of mine came without feet. Has anyone located a current source for appropriate screw-through rubber feet?

(I've also got some Collins S-Line gear that will need a few.)

Edit:

Looks like Budwig is perhaps the lone remaining US manufacturer of these kind of feet
http://budwigmoldedproducts.com/rubber-bumpers/

One potential supplier of small quantities is https://www.westfloridacomponents.com/screw-on-recessed-bumpers.html
(I have not done more but find them on the Web.)

Budwig has suggested that Linear Motion Labs may be able to supply small quantities. I haven't contacted them yet.
1.866.888.4006
http://linearmotionlabs.com/

Edit:

OK, I'll admit I apparently still haven't mastered the Digikey "catalog" and often wish they had a current PDF version

Another option might be the Keystone 728 -- http://keyelco.com/userAssets/file/M65p134.pdf
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 02:23:15 am by jeffsf »
 

Offline rdl

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Re: POWER DESIGNS PRECISION POWER SUPPLIES
« Reply #614 on: December 03, 2015, 01:30:36 am »
You can find rubber feet like that on ebay, but maybe not the exact shape of the originals and smaller sizes are not that common.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?&_nkw=rubber+feet+recessed
 

Offline eas

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Re: POWER DESIGNS PRECISION POWER SUPPLIES
« Reply #615 on: December 15, 2015, 02:51:45 am »
I bought an original Power Designs 2020 Precision Power Source manual and it arrived today. I made high quality scans of all the pages, including 600dpi scans of the tabloid-sized schematics and component diagrams.

I've turned them into a searchable PDF, uploaded them to my site, and linked them from my page of Power Designs manuals. The page also links to previously uploaded original high quality scans of manuals for the 5020 and 2020b precision supplies, and the 6050.
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: POWER DESIGNS PRECISION POWER SUPPLIES
« Reply #616 on: December 15, 2015, 03:08:56 am »
Thanks, eas!  :-+
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Offline nanofrog

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Re: POWER DESIGNS PRECISION POWER SUPPLIES
« Reply #617 on: December 15, 2015, 04:20:14 am »
Thanks, eas!  :-+
I concur.   :) Very nice indeed.  :-+
 

Offline mtdoc

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Re: POWER DESIGNS PRECISION POWER SUPPLIES
« Reply #618 on: December 15, 2015, 04:45:14 am »
Yes, thanks eas. I recently picked up a 2010  to keep my 2005A company. I can't find a manual for it online but the 2020 manual is probably close enough.
 

Offline eas

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Re: POWER DESIGNS PRECISION POWER SUPPLIES
« Reply #619 on: December 15, 2015, 05:38:04 am »
No oven light on that 2010? Probably uses an LM199 or LM399 rather than the old custom Power Designs ovenized reference amplifier used in the 2020. My guess is that it may be closest to the 2020b and 5020.

The 2020 I posted the manual for is a similar vintage to the 2005, but uses Power Designs "heatrans" technology which includes power resistors as part of the dissipative element.

My pleasure, Bitseeker and Nanofrog!
« Last Edit: December 15, 2015, 05:42:13 am by eas »
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: POWER DESIGNS PRECISION POWER SUPPLIES
« Reply #620 on: December 15, 2015, 11:53:12 pm »
Yes, thanks eas. I recently picked up a 2010  to keep my 2005A company. I can't find a manual for it online but the 2020 manual is probably close enough.

I recently picked up a 2010, too. Yours is better looking, mtdoc.

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Offline MaxFrister

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Re: POWER DESIGNS PRECISION POWER SUPPLIES
« Reply #621 on: December 16, 2015, 05:38:19 am »
I've turned them into a searchable PDF, uploaded them to my site, and linked them from my page of Power Designs manuals. The page also links to previously uploaded original high quality scans of manuals for the 5020 and 2020b precision supplies, and the 6050.

How did you make the pdf searchable. I've strougle with some huge but unsearchable pdfs in the past.
 

Offline JoeO

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Re: POWER DESIGNS PRECISION POWER SUPPLIES
« Reply #622 on: December 16, 2015, 01:47:45 pm »
I've turned them into a searchable PDF, uploaded them to my site, and linked them from my page of Power Designs manuals. The page also links to previously uploaded original high quality scans of manuals for the 5020 and 2020b precision supplies, and the 6050.

How did you make the pdf searchable. I've strougle with some huge but unsearchable pdfs in the past.
I use Adobe Acrobat 9 Standard.  It came with my scanner.
Once the document is scanned in as a pdf, the OCR software runs to make it searchable.
The accuracy is dependent upon the quality of the document that is scanned.  It is not perfect but it does an excellent job of OCRing. 
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Offline eas

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Re: POWER DESIGNS PRECISION POWER SUPPLIES
« Reply #623 on: December 17, 2015, 12:32:12 am »
My scanner came bundled with a version of Abbyy FineReader. It does OCR and stores the converted text as a transparent layer to allow searching and copy/paste. Its a great way to work with the limitations of OCR. It isn't an uncommon feature, these days.

I'd like to find some inexpensive OS X software to allow me to add a hyper-linked table of contents to scans, but I haven't looked very hard.
 

Offline SharpEars

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Re: POWER DESIGNS PRECISION POWER SUPPLIES
« Reply #624 on: December 18, 2015, 06:44:06 pm »
Anyone know where I can find a manual for the 5005R? It seems to be an oddball with no manual to be had...

Update: Found it, in case anybody else is looking for it, it is obscurely included in the TW5005T manual:

http://www.nscainc.com/uploads_2014/product_guides/POW_TW5005.pdf


« Last Edit: December 18, 2015, 06:50:56 pm by SharpEars »
 


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