Low Cost Cap Tester, ESR, LCR 2018

[elgato]

I would like a meter to simply display Capacitance and ESR and hopefully offer protection for under $100. In-Circuit would be nice. I have read tons of forum posts and reviews but many are outdated. The current popular products seem to be:
MK-328
DE-5000 *
MESR-100 *
MEC-100
MLC-500
DM-4070
M6013

Blue ESR
Atlas ESR70

I like the Atlas ESR70 but it is expensive.

Possibly the MESR-100 and a seperate Cap tester?

Recommendations appreciated.

Thank You

[bob jackson]

I am interested in this question too.

And an additional question--how important is it to have variable frequency ESR meter?  DE-5000 provides this, I don't know about the others.

[coromonadalix]

unless specified 

Most lcr meters dont have huge protections against charged capacitors  ...   atlas may have an good lcr,  but no kelvin inputs (4 wires) 

An DE-5000 will be very good for you, lots of functions and tests frequencies ... the manual can easily be found, and you'll discover its capabilities,  no need of other equipment for  coils or capacitors  ...

around 100$ usd with sometimes all the adapters ..

[coromonadalix]

oh     the DE-5000 is based on 2 Cyrustek ES51919 and ES51920 ic's,  you have many models on the market with thoses chips inside, uni-t,  mastech,  etc ... it depends on how they implemented the inputs (2w or 4wires) and the added protections.

[nanofrog]

Do note that the DE-5000 does NOT have input protections, so be sure capacitors are discharged first.

You could add protection though if you wanted (cost is a bit of accuracy). I think there's even unpopulated pads on the PCB for this, but DER EE decided not to add it when it went into production.

[kripton2035]

something like this : ?

[elgato]

What is that?
It looks like an Atlas without the case.
Thx

[elgato]

There is a lot of talk about the ESR-Micro V4.0.
I like it but the website is in Russian and I have no idea how much it is or where to order it.

[PedroDaGr8]

There is a lot of talk about the ESR-Micro V4.0.
I like it but the website is in Russian and I have no idea how much it is or where to order it.

The ESR Micro V4 is an updated version of the old Bob Parker design. Nice for circa 2010 but mostly supplanted by the 328 based testers. They do it just as well, or better, and test many more things.

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk

[kripton2035]

What is that?
It looks like an Atlas without the case.
Thx

it is this one : http://kripton2035.free.fr/digital%20esr/esr-go-russian.html

[kripton2035]

the esr micro v4 is something different

[elgato]

This one is newer (better?) than the ESR micro?
How do you get one?
Thanks again.

[elgato]

Most of the cheap meters say from China. The DE5000's say Japan. Are they really a Japanese product?
Thanks

[BravoV]

Most of the cheap meters say from China. The DE5000's say Japan. Are they really a Japanese product?
Thanks

Doubt that your under $100 budget there can buy you a true "Japanese" made brand new LCR meter.

[PedroDaGr8]

Most of the cheap meters say from China. The DE5000's say Japan. Are they really a Japanese product?
Thanks

They ship from Japan, not made in Japan. They are made in Taiwan but the quality is excellent.

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk

[kripton2035]

Quote from: elgato on Yesterday at 22:37:35

This one is newer (better?) than the ESR micro?
How do you get one?
Thanks again.

I'm not sure you can buy it out of russia... I linked all the documentation needed to build it (schematics and PCB)
but I'm afraid you have to build it yourself. yes it's better than the esr micro that is pretty old.


the deree de5000 is a very nice device, but it's an lcr meter, and does not have any protection on its input
as it is a precision instrument.

[bugi]

Most of the cheap meters say from China. The DE5000's say Japan. Are they really a Japanese product?
Thanks

The story goes that it was originally designed by Japanese company ("IET", still sells DE-6000 version), and manufactured in Taiwan (iirc), but now the manufacturer ("DER") sells it directly (at least to resellers, and IET doesn't sell that model anymore). It is apparently still the same design, so one could say it is more or less japanese quality.  Many of the current resellers are from Japan.

Though I'm still baffled about the lack of proper reverse battery protection in it (one cheap component would do it), but once you know that, it is easy to ensure putting the battery in the right way (or to not use a battery).

[nanofrog]

IET rebrands them from DER EE.

Now the technicals:

• The components are the same between the 5000 and 6000.
• Improved accuracy to 0.2% at 1kHz on the 6000, which is done via firmware. IET provides an updated firmware to do this.
• A LabVIEW Driver for the DE-6000 is available.

This ^ is from ietlabs (source post).

[Shock]

Handheld without protection is the DE-5000 hands down and yes the multiple frequency support makes a difference but this is an LCR meter not just ESR/Capacitance.

ESR only with protection is Silicon Chip or Blue ESR style with added input protection diodes.
DIY ESR only with protection is the ESR Meter Adapter by forum member Jay_Diddy_B.
If you need capacitance just use any old meter which can measure capacitance.

[elgato]

Thanks.
If you were going to do a quick check of capacitors on a board would ESR be enough or would you want to measure Capacitance too? Do basic Capacitance meters measure in circuit?

[Shock]

Thanks.
If you were going to do a quick check of capacitors on a board would ESR be enough or would you want to measure Capacitance too? Do basic Capacitance meters measure in circuit?

The whole idea (with any type of component testing) is you're comparing to when the component was new - against the manufacturers datasheet (the most reliable data, right?). So there are many ways capacitors can be characterized.

A capacitance check is almost a prerequisite. ESR testing is useful for finding electrolytic caps where the dielectric performance is degraded, it's done at frequency. Leakage testing will show if a capacitors inherent insulative ability worsens (not so useful for electrolytic caps).

Testing in circuit is dependent on the test voltage, low enough and you avoid turning on semiconductors which create other resistive and capacitive pathways between your test leads. The presence of components immediately in parallel with the capacitor, the testers method and the test frequency can all give different results.

You can tell from the schematic or once you get good at "reading" the layout on a PCB in front of you if there is going to be problems measuring in circuit. But the immediate thing you should be doing when doubting a component is measuring it out of circuit anyway. So "when in doubt rip it out" .

[Shock]

Over voltage input protection does not mean the capacitor gets discharged from 400V to nothing for testing, it actually just dumps all that energy into the leads and over voltage protection of your meter.

Resistance, capacitance, ESR and leakage and so forth are all performed on deenergized circuits and powered by the tester. So you are disconnecting the DUT from the mains, discharging and confirming the capacitors and circuit is safe to work on.

The next logical step is to think you need a tester that automatically discharges the cap. Some models do (and you could make a circuit to automate this on any meter) but they are still limited by input voltage. It's also very easy to discharge a cap with a "home made discharge cable" and measure the voltage with your multimeter.

So while it is handy to have input protection and test in circuit they are both nullified (in a way) because of best practice, and that is to discharge all capacitors regardless and be prepared to remove them from circuit to confirm the fault.

If I was in your shoes, I'd plan on a DE-5000 and ignore you need capacitance on the ESR tester itself (even those $20 Aneng multimeters have capacitance testing) and if you need over voltage protection on an ESR meter do it properly and get something robust like the Silicon Chip ESR and do the diode mod (I'm not sure if the Blue ESR has enough room for chunky diodes).

[Shock]

The other thing I wanted to touch on, even adding super input protection in a way adds a small element of risk if you don't work in a methodical manner. While a meter with no protection will have it's ass blown open and may alert you to the fact you messed up, a meter that is potentially robust enough to absorb live mains voltage will sit there happily while you have forgotten to disconnect the mains.

Typically I'd go for as much insulation as practical between me and any test equipment for working on mains powered circuits and devices. For this reason small or flimsy shelled ESR meter just doesn't make sense, god forbid they see mains current.

The DE-5000 is only excused because it's more a multifuction precision instrument and not purposely intended to be used in the back of TVs, amps and radios etc. Low voltage stuff on the other hand it's the DE-5000 every day of the week.

[bugi]

My understanding has been that the (missing) input protection would be against ESD (e.g. touching the probe ends with your charged fingers), not against high energy capacitors (even relatively low voltage ones, say, 24V).  High energy protection would need more stuff than just two tiny back-to-back components (as seems to be typical), especially something to limit the current.

DE-5000 has spots ready for input protection, just being unpopulated. Of the three other variants using cyrustek chips (that I found photos of), only one seems to have some input protection components, other two do not even have empty spots. On DE-5000, judging from the circuit and pad layout, seems the idea would be to use back-to-back zeners ("TVS-diodes") in SOT-23 packages. Just no idea about what voltage. Some examples for such components I found have as low as 0.6pF (typ) capacitance, so might be low enough to not mess up with measurements (after calibration). (EDIT: scratch that, seems all the low-capacitance versions in SOT-23 that I can find are composites with another diode in series, so won't work in this circuit.)

Of course, it seems to be unknown if the chip itself has built-in ESD protection, but considering that one variant has external protection components, and DE-5000 has unpopulated spots for them, looks like the chip doesn't have it.

[Shock]

My understanding has been that the (missing) input protection would be against ESD (e.g. touching the probe ends with your charged fingers), not against high energy capacitors (even relatively low voltage ones, say, 24V).  High energy protection would need more stuff than just two tiny back-to-back components (as seems to be typical), especially something to limit the current.

Never seen them specify overvoltage of kV, normally it's a low voltage or around mains voltage. That's not to say that it won't stop ESD as well. The ones recommended for the Silicon Chip (Bob Parker design) are two 1N5404 diodes, shown in this photo they appear quite chunky.