Low Cost Cap Tester, ESR, LCR 2018

[elgato]

I would like a meter to simply display Capacitance and ESR and hopefully offer protection for under $100. In-Circuit would be nice. I have read tons of forum posts and reviews but many are outdated. The current popular products seem to be:
MK-328
DE-5000 *
MESR-100 *
MEC-100
MLC-500
DM-4070
M6013

Blue ESR
Atlas ESR70

I like the Atlas ESR70 but it is expensive.

Possibly the MESR-100 and a seperate Cap tester?

Recommendations appreciated.

Thank You

[bob jackson]

I am interested in this question too.

And an additional question--how important is it to have variable frequency ESR meter?  DE-5000 provides this, I don't know about the others.

[coromonadalix]

unless specified 

Most lcr meters dont have huge protections against charged capacitors  ...   atlas may have an good lcr,  but no kelvin inputs (4 wires) 

An DE-5000 will be very good for you, lots of functions and tests frequencies ... the manual can easily be found, and you'll discover its capabilities,  no need of other equipment for  coils or capacitors  ...

around 100$ usd with sometimes all the adapters ..

[coromonadalix]

oh     the DE-5000 is based on 2 Cyrustek ES51919 and ES51920 ic's,  you have many models on the market with thoses chips inside, uni-t,  mastech,  etc ... it depends on how they implemented the inputs (2w or 4wires) and the added protections.

[nanofrog]

Do note that the DE-5000 does NOT have input protections, so be sure capacitors are discharged first.

You could add protection though if you wanted (cost is a bit of accuracy). I think there's even unpopulated pads on the PCB for this, but DER EE decided not to add it when it went into production.

[kripton2035]

something like this : ?

[elgato]

What is that?
It looks like an Atlas without the case.
Thx

[elgato]

There is a lot of talk about the ESR-Micro V4.0.
I like it but the website is in Russian and I have no idea how much it is or where to order it.

[PedroDaGr8]

There is a lot of talk about the ESR-Micro V4.0.
I like it but the website is in Russian and I have no idea how much it is or where to order it.

The ESR Micro V4 is an updated version of the old Bob Parker design. Nice for circa 2010 but mostly supplanted by the 328 based testers. They do it just as well, or better, and test many more things.

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk

[kripton2035]

What is that?
It looks like an Atlas without the case.
Thx

it is this one : http://kripton2035.free.fr/digital%20esr/esr-go-russian.html

[kripton2035]

the esr micro v4 is something different

[elgato]

This one is newer (better?) than the ESR micro?
How do you get one?
Thanks again.

[elgato]

Most of the cheap meters say from China. The DE5000's say Japan. Are they really a Japanese product?
Thanks

[BravoV]

Most of the cheap meters say from China. The DE5000's say Japan. Are they really a Japanese product?
Thanks

Doubt that your under $100 budget there can buy you a true "Japanese" made brand new LCR meter.

[PedroDaGr8]

Most of the cheap meters say from China. The DE5000's say Japan. Are they really a Japanese product?
Thanks

They ship from Japan, not made in Japan. They are made in Taiwan but the quality is excellent.

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk

[kripton2035]

Quote from: elgato on Yesterday at 22:37:35

This one is newer (better?) than the ESR micro?
How do you get one?
Thanks again.

I'm not sure you can buy it out of russia... I linked all the documentation needed to build it (schematics and PCB)
but I'm afraid you have to build it yourself. yes it's better than the esr micro that is pretty old.


the deree de5000 is a very nice device, but it's an lcr meter, and does not have any protection on its input
as it is a precision instrument.

[bugi]

Most of the cheap meters say from China. The DE5000's say Japan. Are they really a Japanese product?
Thanks

The story goes that it was originally designed by Japanese company ("IET", still sells DE-6000 version), and manufactured in Taiwan (iirc), but now the manufacturer ("DER") sells it directly (at least to resellers, and IET doesn't sell that model anymore). It is apparently still the same design, so one could say it is more or less japanese quality.  Many of the current resellers are from Japan.

Though I'm still baffled about the lack of proper reverse battery protection in it (one cheap component would do it), but once you know that, it is easy to ensure putting the battery in the right way (or to not use a battery).

[nanofrog]

IET rebrands them from DER EE.

Now the technicals:

• The components are the same between the 5000 and 6000.
• Improved accuracy to 0.2% at 1kHz on the 6000, which is done via firmware. IET provides an updated firmware to do this.
• A LabVIEW Driver for the DE-6000 is available.

This ^ is from ietlabs (source post).

[Shock]

Handheld without protection is the DE-5000 hands down and yes the multiple frequency support makes a difference but this is an LCR meter not just ESR/Capacitance.

ESR only with protection is Silicon Chip or Blue ESR style with added input protection diodes.
DIY ESR only with protection is the ESR Meter Adapter by forum member Jay_Diddy_B.
If you need capacitance just use any old meter which can measure capacitance.

[elgato]

Thanks.
If you were going to do a quick check of capacitors on a board would ESR be enough or would you want to measure Capacitance too? Do basic Capacitance meters measure in circuit?

[Shock]

Thanks.
If you were going to do a quick check of capacitors on a board would ESR be enough or would you want to measure Capacitance too? Do basic Capacitance meters measure in circuit?

The whole idea (with any type of component testing) is you're comparing to when the component was new - against the manufacturers datasheet (the most reliable data, right?). So there are many ways capacitors can be characterized.

A capacitance check is almost a prerequisite. ESR testing is useful for finding electrolytic caps where the dielectric performance is degraded, it's done at frequency. Leakage testing will show if a capacitors inherent insulative ability worsens (not so useful for electrolytic caps).

Testing in circuit is dependent on the test voltage, low enough and you avoid turning on semiconductors which create other resistive and capacitive pathways between your test leads. The presence of components immediately in parallel with the capacitor, the testers method and the test frequency can all give different results.

You can tell from the schematic or once you get good at "reading" the layout on a PCB in front of you if there is going to be problems measuring in circuit. But the immediate thing you should be doing when doubting a component is measuring it out of circuit anyway. So "when in doubt rip it out" .

[Shock]

Over voltage input protection does not mean the capacitor gets discharged from 400V to nothing for testing, it actually just dumps all that energy into the leads and over voltage protection of your meter.

Resistance, capacitance, ESR and leakage and so forth are all performed on deenergized circuits and powered by the tester. So you are disconnecting the DUT from the mains, discharging and confirming the capacitors and circuit is safe to work on.

The next logical step is to think you need a tester that automatically discharges the cap. Some models do (and you could make a circuit to automate this on any meter) but they are still limited by input voltage. It's also very easy to discharge a cap with a "home made discharge cable" and measure the voltage with your multimeter.

So while it is handy to have input protection and test in circuit they are both nullified (in a way) because of best practice, and that is to discharge all capacitors regardless and be prepared to remove them from circuit to confirm the fault.

If I was in your shoes, I'd plan on a DE-5000 and ignore you need capacitance on the ESR tester itself (even those $20 Aneng multimeters have capacitance testing) and if you need over voltage protection on an ESR meter do it properly and get something robust like the Silicon Chip ESR and do the diode mod (I'm not sure if the Blue ESR has enough room for chunky diodes).

[Shock]

The other thing I wanted to touch on, even adding super input protection in a way adds a small element of risk if you don't work in a methodical manner. While a meter with no protection will have it's ass blown open and may alert you to the fact you messed up, a meter that is potentially robust enough to absorb live mains voltage will sit there happily while you have forgotten to disconnect the mains.

Typically I'd go for as much insulation as practical between me and any test equipment for working on mains powered circuits and devices. For this reason small or flimsy shelled ESR meter just doesn't make sense, god forbid they see mains current.

The DE-5000 is only excused because it's more a multifuction precision instrument and not purposely intended to be used in the back of TVs, amps and radios etc. Low voltage stuff on the other hand it's the DE-5000 every day of the week.

[bugi]

My understanding has been that the (missing) input protection would be against ESD (e.g. touching the probe ends with your charged fingers), not against high energy capacitors (even relatively low voltage ones, say, 24V).  High energy protection would need more stuff than just two tiny back-to-back components (as seems to be typical), especially something to limit the current.

DE-5000 has spots ready for input protection, just being unpopulated. Of the three other variants using cyrustek chips (that I found photos of), only one seems to have some input protection components, other two do not even have empty spots. On DE-5000, judging from the circuit and pad layout, seems the idea would be to use back-to-back zeners ("TVS-diodes") in SOT-23 packages. Just no idea about what voltage. Some examples for such components I found have as low as 0.6pF (typ) capacitance, so might be low enough to not mess up with measurements (after calibration). (EDIT: scratch that, seems all the low-capacitance versions in SOT-23 that I can find are composites with another diode in series, so won't work in this circuit.)

Of course, it seems to be unknown if the chip itself has built-in ESD protection, but considering that one variant has external protection components, and DE-5000 has unpopulated spots for them, looks like the chip doesn't have it.

[Shock]

My understanding has been that the (missing) input protection would be against ESD (e.g. touching the probe ends with your charged fingers), not against high energy capacitors (even relatively low voltage ones, say, 24V).  High energy protection would need more stuff than just two tiny back-to-back components (as seems to be typical), especially something to limit the current.

Never seen them specify overvoltage of kV, normally it's a low voltage or around mains voltage. That's not to say that it won't stop ESD as well. The ones recommended for the Silicon Chip (Bob Parker design) are two 1N5404 diodes, shown in this photo they appear quite chunky.

[bugi]

I've not seen ESD protection (if any) mentioned in finished products often, either, so I think that is sort of taken for granted (even if it shouldn't), and thus not detailed - or it doesn't have any ESD protection at all. Even DMMs touting "1000V" everywhere don't bother to mention if they have also been designed to take a 15kV ESD spike.

Those diodes are definitely meant to take the punch

It is not that it could not be done in general, but the components (or their pad layouts) I've seen have been SOT-23, and back-to-back series connected, which indicates something else than a V-forward drop (of parallel connection) to waste, and with no series current limiting, so plenty current, too.


In any case, after about half an hour of searching, I could not find a SOT-23 zener/TVS component which would have had low capacitance, low reverse leakage and be of suitable internal connection to fit into DE-5000 layout as is. Maybe I'll return to this topic if I some day just happen to bump into suitable component. For now, just have to remember to think before poking around.

[elgato]

The DE-5000 was delivered yesterday. Wish the clip leads were a bit longer but really like the tweezers.

Tried in-circuit : A 470 came back with 467, .04, 100 86 .4

Two 4700's either show nothing or nothing even close.

I do not think I can trust any of the in-circuit results. Shame because some are really tight.
Is this meter as good as it gets for in-circuit in this price range?
Thanks Again

[Shock]

I do not think I can trust any of the in-circuit results. Shame because some are really tight.
Is this meter as good as it gets for in-circuit in this price range?

Yes the DE 5000 is a keeper, the lack of input protection is the only concern so always make sure the circuits not live and discharge the cap (in or out of circuit). Remember you have to do this on other ESR meters as well most of the time anyway because they have limitations.

I would still consider a Silicon Chip (Bob Parker design) ESR meter and put the protection diodes in if you are doing a lot of in circuit measurements in TVs, Radios, Amps etc.

I'd buy both personally without hesitation. But one or the other can get you by.

[elgato]

Why do I get OL when measuring the 4700uF's. ?
What is the proper setup for larger values?
Thanks

[PedroDaGr8]

Why do I get OL when measuring the 4700uF's. ?
What is the proper setup for larger values?
Thanks

Check your frequency, >2000uF needs 100/120Hz range

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk

[elgato]

Sorry to be such a noob.

At the 100 Hz range I get 4.32 mF so it is reading Capacitance.
However, both of the 4700's show zero ESR.

Limitation of the meter or am I doing something wrong?

[BravoV]

Sorry to be such a noob.

At the 100 Hz range I get 4.32 mF so it is reading Capacitance.
However, both of the 4700's show zero ESR.

Limitation of the meter or am I doing something wrong?

Some caps are rated at different frequency, simple thing to remember, when it comes to electrolytic, to measure capacitance, use 100 or 120 Hz, that is the standard way measured by the manufacturers. Just try download few popular electrolytic cap datasheets to note the "fine print", as its easily missed out.

When it comes to ESR , for common switching caps, its specced at 100 KHz, so set your Rs measurement at this frequency.

Also don't forget to read the fine print at those datasheet for it's ESR, sometimes its also called "Impedance" at certain frequency at different manufacturers.

Remember to discharge your cap EVERY-TIMES before measuring, as its normal when you have new toy to play and forgot this crucial step. 

[bugi]

At the 100 Hz range I get 4.32 mF so it is reading Capacitance.
However, both of the 4700's show zero ESR.

Limitation of the meter or am I doing something wrong?

Likely a sort of limitation of the meter. For example, on my meter, measuring 1000µF cap (which can be measured in the 1kHz range, too), at 1kHz the result is 964µF + 0.04ohm, but on 100Hz the result is 991.9µF + 0.0ohm. Note the drop of one decimal from ESR and thus the low ESR simply gets rounded down to 0.  And that cap isn't even any special low-ESR type, more than 10 years old random one, but unused.

(EDIT: in Rs measurement mode, at 100kHz, the result for the same cap shows 0.039ohm.)

[BravoV]

At the 100 Hz range I get 4.32 mF so it is reading Capacitance.
However, both of the 4700's show zero ESR.

Limitation of the meter or am I doing something wrong?

Likely a sort of limitation of the meter. For example, on my meter, measuring 1000µF cap (which can be measured in the 1kHz range, too), at 1kHz the result is 964µF + 0.04ohm, but on 100Hz the result is 991.9µF + 0.0ohm. Note the drop of one decimal from ESR and thus the low ESR simply gets rounded down to 0.  And that cap isn't even any special low-ESR type, more than 10 years old random one, but unused.

And if the old cap is reformed long enough at rated voltage, those values will change.

[elgato]

So,
To measure the 4700uF cap you need to select 100Hz but ESR will then show zero.
Then you select Rs mode and select 1kHz for an ESR value?

See pics.

Auto range is fairly useless?

Do the other meters, like the Atlas ESR70 simply do this in one step?

Does the MESR-100 auto range for ESR even at the higher values?

Thanks

[BravoV]

So,
To measure the 4700uF cap you need to select 100Hz but ESR will then show zero.

Yes, because "most" switching caps ESR are "rated and measured" at 100KHz, not at 100Hz, its a common industry practice.

Then you select Rs mode and select 1kHz for an ESR value?

More likely at 100KHz, not at 1KHz as most capacitors are made and measured at this frequency by the manufacturers.

The point here is to see if the capacitor is "STILL" in spec or at least near as new from factory, don't you agree ? 

Just download few cap datasheets to get the feel and clue.

Auto range is fairly useless?

No, actually pretty handy for components that we don't have doubt, just to verify its value.

The Auto has limitation, read the manual.

Say you have a cap that shorted inside, the auto definitely can not tell if its a cap or an inductor, or an inductor that it's coil is disconnected in the middle and mis-indentified as a cap, is this making any sense to you ?

If that is the case, then setting to manual to clear things out.

Remember, having both AUTO and MANUAL means we are in full control on what we measure, instead of leaving that dumb thing to decide as they're NOT smart enough.

Do the other meters, like the Atlas ESR70 simply do this in one step?

Does the MESR-100 auto range for ESR even at the higher values?

Never used those, but for me at least, an ESR meter is not in the league compared to a fully LCR meter as you own.

Some crappy ESR meter even can not differentiate between a shorted cap vs a low ESR cap. 

[BravoV]

Also as you mentioned you're a beginner, the word LCR means the "R" part is Resistance.

This new gadget of yours, when it comes to measuring resistance, it beats the hell out of any handheld DMMs out there, even the expensive ones. 

The ordinary DMM with 2 wires probe simply can not do this kind of low Ohm measurement reliably. 

[Shock]

To measure the 4700uF cap you need to select 100Hz but ESR will then show zero.
Then you select Rs mode and select 1kHz for an ESR value?
Auto range is fairly useless?

All ESR meters characterize capacitors differently due to the way they test, you need to read the manual it should tell you how to set the DE 5000 to ESR.

It will say on the capacitors datasheet what the capacitance tolerance is, or just look at an equivalent datasheet for similar type, capacity, temp, voltage size, series etc.

So as an example
+/- 20% @ 20C @ 120Hz.

ESR on low voltage low ESR aluminum electrolytics are often measured at 100kHz. Larger caps 10V up which state ESR can be 10kHz. Generic caps may have instead on their datasheet their quality/loss/dissipation etc measured at  1kHz or 120Hz. Take note of the trend, low performing caps are tested at lower test frequency, the ESR is higher. Generally you want to stick to the datasheet.

So as an example a datasheet has a low ESR 6.3V  8x11.5mm electrolytic cap 4.7 uF to 1000 uF
20C @ 100kHz = 0.056 or less Ohms Impedance/ESR
20C @ 120Hz = 0.22 Loss Tangent (provided if you need it)

You can also use those rough ESR charts that show Capacitance vs Voltage to get an approximate ESR, this could be old data as modern low ESR caps could have a lower nominal ESR value.

ESR when it's an issue due to the electrolyte breakdown is normally obvious. It may be over several hundred percent greater than the datasheet. Capacitors with high hours or sitting unused can have high ESR, the reforming/self healing nature of electrolytics can lower ESR. Heat can temporary lower ESR.

[elgato]

Thank you for all the input. I think I am starting to understand Cap Testing.
With the DE-5000 I get these results:

Junzl 100uF 400V   (http://www.paullinebarger.net/DS/Junzl/Junzl%20%5bradial%20thru-hole%5d%20TR%20Series.pdf)
 In Cs Mode:

 100hz Cap 88.17 ESR .9
 120hz Cap 87.95 ESR .8
 1khz Cap 85.6 ESR .57
 10khz Cap 77.1 ESR .52
 100khz Nothing "OL"

 Rs
 100hz .90
 120hz .83
 1khz .57
 10khz .51
 100khz.49

Rule of thumb and most generic tables are 100hZ so .90 is on the high side. Bad?

The Atlas manual says that it tests at 100hZ and the Blue at 100khz (?)
So you need to match your chart to the meter?

In the data sheet I did not see specific test frequency or ESR specs.

Thanks

[bugi]

You can calculate the ESR from the datasheet's dissipation factor. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissipation_factor.

However, your DE-5000 should also be able to give the D directly (i.e. dissipation factor, DF), just like ESR, so in the auto-C mode select the D for the secondary value... or ESR, whichever you want to see... or Q, or the "phase angel" (quoting manual for giggles).

As an example, my random unused 100µF/63V cap gives 98.94µF, and D=0.033 or ESR=0.4ohm (at 120Hz).

Compared to your values, mine has about half the ESR, and dissipation factor (compared to the datasheet you linked) is about 8 times lower.  Quick thinking from that would indicate that as your cap shows higher ESR, you should also see higher D, about 0.07 or so. Thus well within the datasheet specs.

(EDITED quite a bit, for missing one 0 from own value while comparing to DF from the datasheet, thus leading to totally different end result )

[Shock]

Thank you for all the input. I think I am starting to understand Cap Testing.
Rule of thumb and most generic tables are 100hZ so .90 is on the high side. Bad?
The Atlas manual says that it tests at 100hZ and the Blue at 100khz (?)
So you need to match your chart to the meter?

Capacitance and ESR are two separate measurements (in case you missed that). Therefore if you wanted to evaluate capacitance at 120Hz and ESR at 100kHz then you would chose those frequencies.

I'm not sure of the Atlas but the Blue ESR is only measuring ESR and I believe the Bob Parker designs are 100kHz. Your instrument is far more advanced as you can evaluate it at different frequencies. If referring to a chart (for simplicity) yes it does matter the test frequency. But they are ball park figures anyway, and as I mentioned earlier typically ESR will be several hundred percent greater if there is a problem.

The ESR is highly dependent on the voltage and capacitance of your cap (so it's minimal info required) and as I mentioned earlier many other factors. So it's hard to be accurate without the datasheet or even guess without the capacitance/voltage specs. If you look at a typical chart for the Bob Parker style (see below) you can refer to that. Or more accurately the datasheet and what Bugi and I were suggesting earlier.

Btw, you can say thanks also by clicking the "thanks" button (top right of each post).

[JDW]

I've been considering the purchase of an ESR tester for a while, and everything seems to point back to this thread and the DE-5000.  :-) 

I have some questions...

First, I found an EBAY auction shipping direct from Japan for a complete kit with most of the accessories for US$104.  But will the documentation be in Japanese or English (or both)?

Second, I've seen some clip mods that combine Kelvin Clips like these with the TL-21 PCB socket.  Anyone here try that?

And lastly, I see from previous posts that the DE-5000 needs to be set to different frequencies based on the capacitance and the voltage rating of the caps being tested.  Is this described in detail in the manual?  If so, does anyone have a link to a PDF version of the manual so I can see what's involved before I purchase one? Are there upper limits to what maximum capacitance and voltage rating can be tested?  Some of the electrolytic caps I intend to test are:

• 680uF, 400V
• 4.7uF, 350V
• 6800uF, 10V
• 1uF, 50V
• 220uF, 16V

Thanks.

[Shock]

In my option these are better, search for "gwinstek kelvin"
https://www.ebay.com/itm/252204657919

Manual https://akizukidenshi.com/download/ds/deree/DE-5000_manu_en2p.pdf
Both the specifications and instructions on setting the frequency can be found in the manual.

[JDW]

Wow, US$20 each for your preferred clips!  Here is the same brand but cheaper, and you get 2 of what looks to be the same clips plus attached wires for only US$27:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/262181748478


Some of the information I was looking for is on page 35 of the DE-5000 documentation (thanks for the link):



No mention of capacitor voltage limit, so it would seem I can test my 680uF 400V cap using the 2000uF Range and 1kHz frequency.

[bugi]

No mention of capacitor voltage limit, so it would seem I can test my 680uF 400V cap using the 2000uF Range and 1kHz frequency.

It depends on how that cap is used. If it is after a simple rectifier and sees mains frequency currents, then 100Hz/120Hz. If it is part of an active PFC circuit, it could see closer to 100kHz ripple, though biggest currents are still at the mains frequency.

Also, with DE-5000, you don't really "use a range"; it is auto-ranging in almost all modes. The table still shows the frequency limits for particular ranges of components to be measured, or correspondingly, component value limits for a particular test frequency.

[Shock]

Wow, US$20 each for your preferred clips!  Here is the same brand but cheaper, and you get 2 of what looks to be the same clips plus attached wires for only US$27: https://www.ebay.com/itm/262181748478

1. I own a set and they are fairly nice clips for the price
2. That link was an example, I'm not guaranteeing the best price
3. I provided the search criteria so people could look for themselves
4. That ebay item I linked was for 2x quantity
5. I recommend making a better set of leads
6. The clips I linked are actually banana plug compatible. If you needed cheap non shielded cables just attach your own cables. The ones that have leads already attached may be soldered into the sockets and are of questionable quality (in the world of Kelvin cables), this would be less flexible overall as getting decent clips is the initial hurdle and these are way better than the other brand.

[wasyoungonce]

.........................ESR only with protection is Silicon Chip or Blue ESR style with added input protection diodes.   DIY ESR only with protection is .......................

Hey Shock...I've have just ordered a Silicon Chip Mk2 ESR kit....what is the "protection diode mod"...I'm in the early stages of researching this but knew this Kit is well regarded.  Is this mod on Bob Parkers page?  Sorry for the ignorance.

Previous on suspect ESR caps I've either shot gunned replaced them (which has worked well for years) and or used the Mega328 multifunction kit.  But its time I went "more technical" in this approach...hahaha

Any advice appreciated.
edit:
Ok found reference to it on Bobs page...maybe I should  look before opening my mouth!
http://bobparker.net.au/esr_meter/esrhints.htm

[JDW]

It depends on how that cap is used. If it is after a simple rectifier...

The capacitors I intend to test have already been desoldered and removed from the circuit.  I basically need to just plug my caps legs straight into the meter, which seems possible without even using the test leads it comes with.

[Shock]

Ok found reference to it on Bobs page...

A couple of things with that mod. Don't get complacent and just slap your ESR meter on any caps. I think it's better to properly check the voltage and attempt discharging first.

You can't check battery resistance/health when you have the diodes installed (an alternate use for the ESR meter). It might be possible to make them removable, again considering safety is a good idea. There is probably other ways to do battery resistance/health as well but I've not looked into it.

[wasyoungonce]

Thanks Shock yeAh saw the info regarding battery measurements and I agree re: discharging caps first.  I have a nice probe with inbuilt bleed resistor for that

Brendan

[bugi]

It depends on how that cap is used. If it is after a simple rectifier...

The capacitors I intend to test have already been desoldered and removed from the circuit.  I basically need to just plug my caps legs straight into the meter, which seems possible without even using the test leads it comes with.

I meant it for deciding which test frequency to use, not just randomly go with 1kHz. I.e. it depends on the intended use case. From the capacity and voltage ratings I guessed what the caps were used for. Then again, if one is only interested in an about figure (ok vs. not ok), it doesn't matter as much.

[Shock]

The capacitors I intend to test have already been desoldered and removed from the circuit.  I basically need to just plug my caps legs straight into the meter, which seems possible without even using the test leads it comes with.

Use the TL-21 or leads, don't wreck the internal contacts read the CAL (zeroing) section of the manual.

[JDW]

Use the TL-21 or leads, don't wreck the internal contacts read the CAL (zeroing) section of the manual.

Really? On what page of the manual does it say "NEVER plug leaded capacitors into the slots on the meter intended for leaded capacitors"?  I see a drawing of a component fitted into the + & - slots on page 20, with no warning attached.  Have a look:

https://akizukidenshi.com/download/ds/deree/DE-5000_manu_en2p.pdf

[Shock]

Really? On what page of the manual does it say "NEVER plug leaded capacitors into the slots on the meter intended for leaded capacitors"?  I see a drawing of a component fitted into the + & - slots on page 20, with no warning attached.

Thanks I already have the manual I was the one who linked you to it.

Perhaps it's experience using similar equipment for years and I didn't read it in the manual. I'd make some decent test fittings, but you can do whatever you like.

[JDW]

You didn't explain what you meant in your previous post, so I assume you meant to say this (correct me if my guess is wrong): "Using the meter's slit-openings (see the upper of #15 on page 8 of the Manual) rather than using the test leads (e.g., TL21, etc.) may wear out the slit-openings over time, and therefore I highly recommend all DE-5000 users use the test leads instead of directly plugging-in leaded capacitors into the meter."

[Shock]

You didn't explain what you meant in your previous post, so I assume you meant to say this (correct me if my guess is wrong): "Using the meter's slit-openings (see the upper of #15 on page 8 of the Manual) rather than using the test leads (e.g., TL21, etc.) may wear out the slit-openings over time, and therefore I highly recommend all DE-5000 users use the test leads instead of directly plugging-in leaded capacitors into the meter."

Yeah use the TL-21 or leads, don't wreck the internal contacts.

[JDW]

Thank you for the helpful information.  I placed an order for this DE-5000 kit, from a seller based in Japan:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DER-EE-DE-5000-High-Accuracy-Handheld-LCR-Meter-w-TL-21-TL-22-TL-23/282040803373

I won't consider building a new set of cables until I've gotten a bit familiar with the device.  The included cables in the kit will be more than adequate to start.

I have one last question, if you don't mind.  The TL-23 Guard Line is only briefly mentioned in the documentation.  Could you explain its proper use?

Thank you!

[Shock]

You can have guarding on cabling, PCB traces and test fixtures. It's used to reduce leakage current from and noise onto to the measurement/signal wires.

There is a free book called "Low Level Measurements Handbook" put out by Keithley if you are interested in reading more info.

[bugi]

I think I've already commented a bit about this somewhere before, but... i have also been wondering how it is supposed to be used, as every document, or comment here, has so far just referred to different generic explanations based on the term "guarding", but which actually does not apply in this DE-5000, or the referred document has been just as vague as everything else.

On DE-5000 the way the guarding is wired inside the device, it won't reduce leakage the way the guarding is often (or usually?) understood (i.e. to track the measurement signal so that the measurement signal to guard voltage difference is zero, so no leakage is possible for the measurement signal). Alas, the "guard" in DE-5000 is simply connected to the negative supply plane on the device, and the measurement levels have a bit of positive offset, so there will be (a little bit of) leakage.

I would imagine the idea would be to connect the guard to target device's ground/negative plane (assuming the component/circuit is still in the device), so it will make the DE-5000's negative supply level to track whatever the guard is connected to, so it might reduce noises indirectly. Note, with the usual way the clips/etc are wired, there won't be full end-to-end connection in the shielding, even with guard connected, so it probably won't help against noise the way e.g. how oscilloscope probes' shielding/ground clip works. Note also that if the DE-5000 is powered from the DC input (not with battery), connecting the "guard" = DE-5000 negative supply = DC brick's negative supply might have some less useful effects, too.

[Calambres]

I've just received the DER DE-5000 tester. Following Dave's motto I opened it up and found that it's lacking the infamous D5 reverse polarity protection diode.
Board is Rev.8

Should I put a diode there?

After much reading I'm not sure whether it is better to put that diode there or not.

[bugi]

I've just received this tester. Following Dave's motto I opened it up and found that it's lacking the infamous D5 reverse polarity protection diode.
Board is Rev.8

Should I put a diode there?

After much reading I'm not sure whether it is better to put that diode there or not.

IIRC, I have the same situation (the DC input path does have such diode, though). I planned to insert a proper FET-based protection instead of that silly suicidal-diode (and few other improvements), I just haven't had the time to implement that change, yet.

[lisafig]

Quote from: elgato on Yesterday at 22:37:35

I'm afraid you have to build it yourself

the DE-5000 which cost around 100$. Which cheaper version do you recommend (I'm a beginner)

it should:
● <35$
● be assembled
● it should work in-circuit
● with the best range possible (to test caps from stuff like kitchen microwave to in little Arduino circuits)

optional:
● the device could also test other components (such as the 328 versions)
● protected (but it doesn't seem the big deal to  discharge the caps)
● work in a live circuit (not even sure it's possible)


If I understood well, the DIY component tester (the last version seems to be 328?) don't seem to work in-circuit (because it sends too much voltage to test). Do you confirm?

I fund this one:  Excelvan M6013 https://www.amazon.com/Excelvan-Capacitance-Capacitor-Professional-470000uF/dp/B009CSR8BA/

ps: There is just too many outdated information spread throughout the years and crazy long threads, so I created a table to try to summarize some points but I'm just lost. Every little contribution to improve it is welcome. No sign-in is required, but if you master the topic and you are ready to watch and filter the user's input, don't hesitate to take the ownership of it (user will ask you to edit it). https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rPS_IGrx5Mb8YCJV1efvbXw0whv1zEn_HW98xHTFB1E/edit?usp=sharing

[kripton2035]

I fund this one:  Excelvan M6013

this one gives you capacity, but not the esr value.

[kripton2035]

● protected (but it doesn't seem the big deal to  discharge the caps)
● work in a live circuit (not even sure it's possible)

the only one I know that is protected (well) and works on a live circuit is the ESR meter DMM adapter from Jay_Diddy_B
http://kripton2035.free.fr/analog%20esr/esr-dmm-adapter-.html
but it's a (simple) DIY meter, cost almost nothing, but you have to build it yourself.

[Shock]

● be assembled
● it should work in-circuit
optional:
● protected (but it doesn't seem the big deal to  discharge the caps)
● work in a live circuit (not even sure it's possible)

Normally people want both in circuit testing and input protection together otherwise if you make a mistake and zap the input your meters microcontroller will likely be toasted.

The ESR meter applies its own low test voltage, so the DUT (device under test) needs to be powered off and it's capacitors discharged (either that or you tempt fate). Best way is to discharge gracefully with a resistor discharge cable. You can make for a few dollars or with salvaged parts for free.

Another thing to be aware of, when testing in circuit if there is capacitance or resistance in parallel you have to be prepared to lift a side of the capacitor or remove from circuit to measure it properly.

Some ESR testers have an automated discharge circuit but for various reasons price/design/discharge specs they aren't any better than the good old Bob Parker design with the protection diode mod. I have the Altronics (Australia) version of the Bob Parker which is a kitset and easy to add the mod to. EVB (Portugal) does a preassembled model with input protection included for a similar price.

If it must be under $35 and assembled I'd try to get a Chinese AY-AT PCB preassembled. Then save for a Bob Parker. It should have all the basic features of the AVR component tester and firmware upgrades. Not really designed for in circuit testing and non existent protection but so handy you will want one eventually anyway.

[lisafig]

it's a (simple) DIY meter, cost almost nothing, but you have to build it yourself.

Thanks, that look perfect but that's not a task for beginner. I looked at the files, but I should first understand where the components goes (and thus the complicate schematic ― I dont even know how to open a Gerber file). And to find the right component looks even harder (I could not even find the first item: assuming C1 is the first capacitor, I googled "1n 1206" capacitor, I found several types, so which one?). And without even talking about making this PCB with the tracks and then soldering those tiny components. It would take me months to do that!

Is there a reason the chineses don't sell it? (They sell pretty much everything, why not this?)

But thank you very much for sharing your work!

[kripton2035]

I dont even know how to open a Gerber file

you download them and them upload them to some pcb service like jlcpcb : https://jlcpcb.com/quote
and you get 5 boards for some 13€ delivered to france in some weeks.
for the components, any type can go.
also look at the original thread for this esr diy meter, https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/esr-meter-adapter-design-and-construction/
there are lots of talks about it, and also people that made a through-hole (no-smd) version that is more suited to beginners.

[lisafig]

I dont even know how to open a Gerber file

you download them and them upload them to some pcb service like jlcpcb : https://jlcpcb.com/quote
and you get 5 boards for some 13€ delivered to france in some weeks.
for the components, any type can go.
also look at the original thread for this esr diy meter, https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/esr-meter-adapter-design-and-construction/
there are lots of talks about it, and also people that made a through-hole (no-smd) version that is more suited to beginners.

Thanks a lot for your patience and explanation I'll give a second try.

(I will try to find the component and post the shopping list which will save some hours/days for the next one)

[lisafig]

If it must be under $35 and assembled I'd try to get a Chinese AY-AT PCB preassembled. [...] It should have all the basic features of the AVR component tester and firmware upgrades. Not really designed for in circuit testing and non existent protection but so handy you will want one eventually anyway.

Thank you very much for your explanations! 

But I read that we shouldn't use AY-AT PCB in-circuit since it will send 9V into it, which might destroy some component.

Then save for a Bob Parker.

Ok, but that's quite expensive:
the Portugal version cost 67$ (59€) http://clientes.netvisao.pt/greenpal/evb1.htm
Somehow the kit version cost even more (90$, without shipping) https://www.altronics.com.au/p/k2574-esr-meter-kit/.
(For 110$ you get the "ESR70 - Atlas ESR PLUS" https://www.peakelec.co.uk/acatalog/esr70-capacitor-esr-meter.html )

(And they only measure ESR)


So if I understand well, the only available solution of ESR working in-circuit <35$ in 2019 is the DIY version of Jay_Diddy_B: http://kripton2035.free.fr/analog%20esr/esr-dmm-adapter-.html

Thanks a lot for your help!

(all about ESR meters & Component tester on a comparison sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rPS_IGrx5Mb8YCJV1efvbXw0whv1zEn_HW98xHTFB1E )

[Shock]

The perfect device you want doesn't exist. As I said the AY-AT is not specifically designed for in circuit testing because it has no protection. But it's the cheapest least effort for ESR testing and generally a handy device. I have no idea of the test voltage anymore since I purchased mine there has been a lot of feature creep.

I have the J_Diddy_B Esr Meter Adapter as well. It's a fairly simple circuit but ordering the parts and PCB, then soldering it together can be a challenge for a beginner as it takes effort. There is also a few hidden costs, you need a project case, a set or two of banana leads and minihooks or probes are handy. It's designed to work with a multimeter that has Relative/Delta mode, otherwise you have to calculate the lead offset.

Just letting you know these things before you dive in. I'm not trying to put you off making one though it's a good circuit and making kits and circuits is a great way to learn.

An EVB model with diode protection (they don't mark this clearly on their website) is going to be the least effort, the easiest to use and probably the most reliable. It doesn't have a lot of features but is the best for in circuit testing without having to make your own.

The Altronics kitset is $90 AUD or ~$60 Euro (excluding shipping).

The Atlas ESR series has limited in circuit protection and are not really what I would call repair friendly, they do measure capacitance however. You need to look closely at the specs. I think the Bob Parker is a better design.

[kripton2035]

The perfect device you want doesn't exist

so the only issue is to think and make a new one with all the features you want inside ...

[kripton2035]

So if I understand well, the only available solution of ESR working in-circuit <35$ in 2019 is the DIY version of Jay_Diddy_B: http://kripton2035.free.fr/analog%20esr/esr-dmm-adapter-.html

I'm trying to make one with an integrated display. it's on a good way, but not finished yet. I will publish it when it's ready, and certainly make boards for it. as it is all smd actually, it's really tiny for beginners !

[lisafig]

I'm trying to make one with an integrated display. it's on a good way, but not finished yet. I will publish it when it's ready,

Please hurry up!  The world is waiting for it!  (My voltmetre doesn't have the relative delta...).

it is all smd actually, it's really tiny for beginners!

I watched many tutos on it so I feel ready (well, if the components aren't too expensive)

I have posted a question here about the potentiometer : https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/esr-meter-adapter-design-and-construction/msg2156443/#msg2156443 . Any idea?

[Shock]

I'm trying to make one with an integrated display. it's on a good way, but not finished yet. I will publish it when it's ready, and certainly make boards for it. as it is all smd actually, it's really tiny for beginners !

Project name: Kripdiddy

The perfect device you want doesn't exist

so the only issue is to think and make a new one with all the features you want inside ...

I already know what features I like and what I would do, yes integrated display is one of them

[lisafig]

Shock, you wrote about the J_Diddy_B Esr Meter Adapter that:

It's designed to work with a multimeter that has Relative/Delta mode, otherwise, you have to calculate the lead offset.

My multimeter doesn't have the Relative delta mode, so how can I calculate the lead offset?

AY-AT is not specifically designed for in-circuit testing because it has no protection.

I may not understand it, but the "no protection" issue doesn't seem to be the big deal if we take the time to discharge the caps before testing them. The real issue seems to be that it throws too much power on the circuit (someone says 9V vs some milli-volt for the in-circuit ESR meters) which might trigger the semiconductor, and even burns component. I read this in several places, including on Amazon comment that it should not be used in-circuit.

[Shock]

My multimeter doesn't have the Relative delta mode, so how can I calculate the lead offset?

Connect the leads together and take a measurement. Then measure your capacitor and subtract the first measurement. Then convert the result to the ohms value (100mV per Ohm). It's easier than it sounds with practice but not as easy as the Bob Parker which automates this in software and a button press.

I may not understand it, but the "no protection" issue doesn't seem to be the big deal if we take the time to discharge the caps before testing them.

No protection means the first time you forget to turn the power off or discharge a cap large enough to damage the microcontroller you will be learning about ESR meter repair. It's an easy mistake to make, the more expensive and elaborate the ESR meter is the costlier it will be.

The real issue seems to be that it throws too much power on the circuit (someone says 9V vs some milli-volt for the in-circuit ESR meters) which might trigger the semiconductor, and even burns component. I read this in several places, including on Amazon comment that it should not be used in-circuit.

The real issue is you need to spend some more euro and buy the EVB. I only mentioned the Chinese AVR clone because of your budget constraints. I said myself is isn't really designed for in circuit testing, regardless of what someone on Amazon says.

[JDW]

For goodness sake, just buy a DE-5000.  It costs about US$100 (mine came with most of the accessories), but it's also one of the best handheld ESR meters out there.

[kripton2035]

For goodness sake, just buy a DE-5000.  It costs about US$100 (mine came with most of the accessories), but it's also one of the best handheld ESR meters out there.

I completely agree with that, but it's a precision instrument, and so not protected from beginner's mistakes...

[JDW]

But a true beginner who makes mistakes probably would be worse off trying to buy a kit and build it themselves.  So whether they get a DE-5000 or a kit, they are basically in the same boat.  It therefore makes the most sense to just get a precision instrument (only a $100 instrument, not a $1000 one) and be careful with it.  I am very careful with mine.  Same with my µCurrent Gold.  People who cannot be extremely careful are better off not testing ESR.  Seriously, imagine a 0.5F cap in the hands of a beginner who isn't careful!

[Shock]

But a true beginner who makes mistakes probably would be worse off trying to buy a kit and build it themselves.  So whether they get a DE-5000 or a kit, they are basically in the same boat.  It therefore makes the most sense to just get a precision instrument (only a $100 instrument, not a $1000 one) and be careful with it.  I am very careful with mine.  Same with my µCurrent Gold.  People who cannot be extremely careful are better off not testing ESR.  Seriously, imagine a 0.5F cap in the hands of a beginner who isn't careful!

Noones hating on the DE5000, it's the best bang for buck LCR/ESR.

It's just not the "best" tool for in circuit testing. The EVB meter (Bob Parker design) on the other hand is (almost) perfect for the job. Can get it preassembled, optional input protection, simple to operate, has schematics, replacement microcontrollers available, 100% repairable. If you wanted to you could even DIY everything but the microcontroller.

[JDW]

So you can actually connect the EVB (Bob Parker) meter to a circuit (disconnected from power) with huge, charged caps and all will be well?

Even if true, the "Testing Capacitors Out of Circuit" section at the bottom of this web page explains the practical reasons why you still may need to desolder and test caps outside the circuit, which is the only way I test ESR with my DE-5000.

[Shock]

So you can actually connect the EVB (Bob Parker) meter to a circuit (disconnected from power) with huge, charged caps and all will be well?

Sure want to up the game? Define "huge" then attach the DE5000 with no input protection and see what happens.

As I've been saying the Bob Parker design is intended for "in circuit" testing even though it doesn't discharge caps for you. The original kit handles ~50V max and Bob says on his website he has not heard of anyone damaging a meter after adding the diode protection mod on the input. You can read about this in the assembly manual.

Protection circuitry
Last but not least, the meter needs to be protected against being connected to charged capacitors. This  protection is partially provided by back-to-back diodes D3 and D4. If an external DC voltage (ie, a charged  capacitor) is connected, one of these diodes conducts and forces non-polarised capacitors C5 and C6 to charge up to that voltage. Additional protection is provided by C7, R12, D5 & D6 which stop excessive
input voltages from damaging transistors Q7 and Q8 in the pulse amplifier circuit.

In particular, diodes D5 & D6 acts as voltage clamps – D5 ensures that the voltage on Q7’s base cannot go  above 5.6V, while D6 ensures that this voltage cannot go below -0.6V. Finally, extra “heavy-duty” protection can be added by connecting a pair of back-to-back high-power diodes (not shown on the circuit)  between the test terminals.

Heavy-duty protection
To provide greater protection against connection to charged electrolytics, some kit builders have connected  an inverse-parallel pair of 1N5404 (or  similar) high-power diodes between the test lead sockets. So if you’re the kind who’s likely to connect the meter to the 120μF input filter capacitor of a 240V-powered   switching power supply without checking that it’s been properly discharged, this modification is for you.

Reportedly, this protects the meter quite well, although it can result in the probe tips being blown off by large charged capacitors. The resulting surge current can also damage the charged capacitor and the power  diodes themselves. However, without the diodes, the resulting >600A current spike destroys the microcontroller (IC2) and damages C6.

Even if true, the "Testing Capacitors Out of Circuit" section at the bottom of this web page explains the practical reasons why you still may need to desolder and test caps outside the circuit, which is the only way I test ESR with my DE-5000.

We were talking about "in circuit" testing and now you are talking about "out of circuit" testing. In that case the DE5000 is the best tool for the job. It even has a nice short test fixture the TL-21 like it's designed for out of circuit testing.

[lisafig]

My multimeter doesn't have the Relative delta mode, so how can I calculate the lead offset?

Connect the leads together and take a measurement. Then measure your capacitor and subtract the first measurement. Then convert the result to the ohms value (100mV per Ohm). It's easier than it sounds with practice but not as easy as the Bob Parker which automates this in software and a button press.

Thanks for this, Shock. It's doesn't sound complicated. Just to be sure. First I fix my multimeter to the ESR meter adapter and connect the 2 leads on it. Then I put the multimeter in the voltage mode. Then I make a contact between my 2 leads and read the voltage. Then I measure the capacitor with my leads. Then I subtract the voltage of the leads of the voltage of the capacitor. Then I convert 100mV to 1Ohm.  Then I am done. This is right?

[Shock]

Thanks for this, Shock. It's doesn't sound complicated. Just to be sure. First I fix my multimeter to the ESR meter adapter and connect the 2 leads on it. Then I put the multimeter in the voltage mode. Then I make a contact between my 2 leads and read the voltage. Then I measure the capacitor with my leads. Then I subtract the voltage of the leads of the voltage of the capacitor. Then I convert 100mV to 1Ohm.  Then I am done. This is right?

Sounds good to me. Here are some pros and cons by the way.

EVB Pros - Easy to source, doesn't require assembly, minimal setup time, easy to operate, adequate input protection for in circuit testing, reference chart on front of meter, clear and easy to read display.
EVB Cons - More expensive of the two, microcontroller closed source.

ESR Adapter Pros - Can handle sustained 240V on input, no microcontroller, 4 wire measurement if required, cheaper to build with lower parts count.
ESR Adapter Cons - Requires a DMM with Relative/Delta mode preferred, slightly less bench and user friendly, requires more leads, no reference chart on front of meter, DIY is more effort of course.

You might want to check if J_Diddy_B is prebuilding any more ESR Adapters before embarking on making your own. If you only own one multimeter or no additional ways to measure voltage and capacitance there is another scenario I'll warn you about, when testing you often will want to measure voltages and capacitance. Swapping leads back and forth to the ESR adapter will get a bit tiresome so it's best if you have a dedicated multimeter/voltmeter for it.

I'm not trying to deter you making your own electronics but when you DIY everything it's a large time cost. My Bob Parker meter was a kitset (most of the work done for me) and the labor cost alone of me assembling it far outweighed the purchase price. So what I'm saying is 65 euros for something like the EVB or the even the DE5000 in the long run is nothing, most people will waste money on far worse, and this is a tool that could last a lifetime (perhaps not the DE5000 hehe).

[lisafig]

Thanks a lo Shok for taking the time to clarify all of these points! (I updated the comparison spreadsheet which starts to look good [people: don't hesitate to correct/complete/update it!] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rPS_IGrx5Mb8YCJV1efvbXw0whv1zEn_HW98xHTFB1E )

I guess I'll try Jay_Diddy_B ESR Meter Adapter as it fit all criteria I'm looking for: it's protected, cheap, in-circuit and open source (which is important for me). (Kripton2035 is working on an updated version with a screen (instead of reading it through a voltmeter) but it's not ready yet).

It won't be that cheap since it will cost me some time and maybe burns some components before succeeding (with 5 boards [cf. below] one should be working!), but I'm excited to try (if I make it, everyone should be able to make it!). I might try first in smd, and if I fail, then in through-hole. I'll keep you updated.

you download [the gerber files] and them upload them to some pcb service like jlcpcb : https://jlcpcb.com/quote
and you get 5 boards for some 13€ delivered to france in some weeks.
for the components, any type can go.
also look at the original thread for this esr diy meter, https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/esr-meter-adapter-design-and-construction/
there are lots of talks about it, and also people that made a through-hole (no-smd) version that is more suited to beginners.

[kripton2035]

It won't be that cheap since it will cost me some time and maybe burns some components before succeeding (with 5 boards [cf. below] one should be working!), but I'm excited to try (if I make it, everyone should be able to make it!). I might try first in smd, and if I fail, then in through-hole. I'll keep you updated.

by the way, the actual gerber files makes a board that is 58 x 108 mm. if someone had time to make it less than 100mm, it would be way cheaper by jlcpcb at least because the 100x100 mm boards are dirt cheap by most pcb manufacturers. for 8 mm it falls into the "normal board" category...

[kripton2035]

Kripton2035 is working on an updated version with a screen (instead of reading it through a voltmeter) but it's not ready yet

don't rely too much on this one : it's not ready (already noticed) and more important, it is very tiny smd work. I want to install it in quite small box, where all will fit it seems for now, but it's a very small space: the jay_diddy board is reduced to 5 x 3 cm ! definitely not an option for beginners (or install it in a bigger box )

[lisafig]

if someone had time to make it less than 100mm, it would be way cheaper by jlcpcb at least because the 100x100 mm boards are dirt cheap by most pcb manufacturers. for 8 mm it falls into the "normal board" category...

That's good to know, thanks for mentioning that!

the jay_diddy board is reduced to 5 x 3 cm ! definitely not an option for beginners (or install it in a bigger box )

Does it implies the same work but on the other way: redesigning the gerber file to insert some spaces on it?


ps: I updated the informations gathered on this (long) thread about ESR here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rPS_IGrx5Mb8YCJV1efvbXw0whv1zEn_HW98xHTFB1E

[Shock]

A couple of days ago I found and brought an original kitset Dick Smith MKII ESR meter (Bob Parker design) and got around to assembling it last night. So I have that and the Altronics version and a few others to play with now.

I went through a batch of old stock Nichicon caps I have, and all went well with no causalities. Dave shows his MKII in this video here at 5m25s. Would be nice if the newer kits were $20-30 cheaper but it's still great value considering how useful they are. He has different leads, mine came with probes. I can tell his leads are 25% shorter than mine when he zeros his meter.

I also own a Dick Smith LOPT/FBT tester (aka ring tester or high Q inductor tester), which was designed by Bob Parker as well. Anatek who do the Blue ESR meter make it now. I had the opportunity to buy both completed kits for $40 a few years back, they are quite hard to find and was a steal at that price. But the seller would not post them out, so somebody got a bargain, unless the seller had terrible soldering which would make for a fun afternoon.

[gespeland]

Hi, I'm new here.
I just bought a DER EE DE-5000 LCR meter and I have a couple of issues but I'm not sure if it's a design thing or I have a bad unit.

1. I can't hear the beep. There is a beep (or two) when you press a button. I can barely hear it if I put my ear up to the unit. Is this normal or is there a way to increase the volume. I hear beeps just fine from my other multi-meters.

2. IMHO, the back-light is very dim. Does anyone else think so? Again, I'm comparing it to the displays on my other meters.

Any and all helpful input is greatly appreciated.

[Shock]

Hi, I'm new here.
I just bought a DER EE DE-5000 LCR meter and I have a couple of issues but I'm not sure if it's a design thing or I have a bad unit.

1. I can't hear the beep. There is a beep (or two) when you press a button. I can barely hear it if I put my ear up to the unit. Is this normal or is there a way to increase the volume. I hear beeps just fine from my other multi-meters.

2. IMHO, the back-light is very dim. Does anyone else think so? Again, I'm comparing it to the displays on my other meters.

Any and all helpful input is greatly appreciated.

We have a repair section post a new thread there should you require further assistance.

The first thing to do is put brand new batteries in. Beeps and backlights are subjective so you might need to provide more details and a video or image. But start off by checking out the review videos and images posted of the DE-5000 online, youtube and google images are quite helpful to get a comparison.

[WhichEnt2]

It may be possible to make an additional protection plugin for de5000 using schematic from iet appnote.
https://www.ietlabs.com/pdf/application_notes/035043%20Charge%20Capacitor%20Protection.pdf
https://www.ietlabs.com/pdf/application_notes/7-Charged%20Capacitor%20Protection-Digibridge.pdf

[grumss]

Hi all,
I havnt seen it mentioned anywhere, but i have built up a set of leads with the protection diodes actually built into the leads..
I use these leads for general testing and then for high accuracy testing just plug in standard leads.

I used back to back 1n4005 diodes and they work well- but i think it may be better using ultra fast diodes due to their lower capacitance