Author Topic: Micsig Technical Support join in EEVblog  (Read 27748 times)

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Offline Docholiday

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Re: Micsig Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #50 on: July 17, 2017, 09:04:01 pm »
I have the TO202A is there a way to tell what firmware version it has?

Thanks,

Nicholas
 

Offline fishandchips

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Re: Micsig Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #51 on: July 21, 2017, 07:31:38 pm »
Hello Micsig Support,

Welcome to the forum.

I have some questions for you:

1. I used the tBook mini TO1104 to do some measurements. In the first case, the scope exported a screenshot with nice square waves. However, in the second case, the upper half of the square waves are shifted. Is this a bug?

https://ibb.co/gywjn5
https://ibb.co/gCp4n5

2. Why there are dots on the horizontal lines?

3. I already set the brightness of the scope to max. Sometimes I see signals that are very thin difficult to read. Is there a way to improve the visibility?

4. I see two axes and some small grids on the display. Is it possible to make them more visible?

5. According to the guide stored in the scope, one could tap the icon "Level" (inside a circle) on the right of the screen to open the trigger level slider. Sometimes this icon does not show up even I chose Measure->Trigger, Ch2, Edge Rise and Couple DC. How can I get this back if it disappears from the screen?

6. I want to do some measurements one channel at a time. I connected the probe for Channel 1 to the circuit. Pressed Measure and then chose the parameters that I wanted to measure. When I tried to do the same thing for the rest of the channels, I have to unselect the icons I chose for Channel 1. Then, reselect the same set of icons again to do the same measurements. Is this a bug? I think it is more convenience for the users if we don't have to unselect and reselect the same measurement icons.

Thanks
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 07:41:24 pm by fishandchips »
 

Offline exe

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Re: Micsig Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #52 on: July 22, 2017, 07:11:33 am »
fishandchips, please check the display menu, it answers most of your questions (about dots, brightness, etc).

Concerning question 6, I'm not sure what you mean. Why you have to unselect? I can do same measurements on multiple channels, no problem. May be we have different FW versions. What's you FW version?

Question 1, I dunno. I failed to reproduce it (tried different raise/ fall times, etc). May be it'a displaying artifact or something. I'd export to CSV and checked if data is correct. I think here we need a comment from Micsig.
 
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Offline fishandchips

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Re: Micsig Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #53 on: July 22, 2017, 01:30:03 pm »
fishandchips, please check the display menu, it answers most of your questions (about dots, brightness, etc).

Concerning question 6, I'm not sure what you mean. Why you have to unselect? I can do same measurements on multiple channels, no problem. May be we have different FW versions. What's you FW version?

Question 1, I dunno. I failed to reproduce it (tried different raise/ fall times, etc). May be it'a displaying artifact or something. I'd export to CSV and checked if data is correct. I think here we need a comment from Micsig.

Thanks.

By display menu, do you mean the 18-page Quick Start Guide stored in the scope? I went through it again but I cannot find answers to my questions (about dots, brightness, etc). In Settings, one could change the overall brightness of the screen but not the visibility of the axes.

About question 6, I had to unselect and select again in order for the scope to display the parameters I wanted to measure. Otherwise, it would just be like Amplitude:   Frequency: with no values displayed. 

My FW version is: 7.14.0.227  I got the scope about two weeks ago.
 
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Offline nctnico

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Re: Micsig Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #54 on: July 22, 2017, 01:50:21 pm »
Measurements never jump from one channel to the other on any oscilloscope. You always have to select the measurements for a specific channel.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline fishandchips

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Re: Micsig Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #55 on: July 22, 2017, 04:44:52 pm »
Measurements never jump from one channel to the other on any oscilloscope. You always have to select the measurements for a specific channel.

Thanks. So even I want to measure the same parameters on different channels in turns, I have to I unselect and select the same set of parameter icons again when I change the channel. A bit inconvenient.
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Micsig Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #56 on: July 22, 2017, 04:54:56 pm »
Measurements never jump from one channel to the other on any oscilloscope. You always have to select the measurements for a specific channel.
Thanks. So even I want to measure the same parameters on different channels in turns, I have to I unselect and select the same set of parameter icons again when I change the channel. A bit inconvenient.
I advise to use the same channel for taking the measurements if you want to compare them because each oscilloscope channel will be slightly different.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline exe

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Re: Micsig Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #57 on: July 22, 2017, 07:19:13 pm »
By display menu, do you mean the 18-page Quick Start Guide stored in the scope? I went through it again but I cannot find answers to my questions (about dots, brightness, etc). In Settings, one could change the overall brightness of the screen but not the visibility of the axes.

No-no-no, not that menu :).  When in oscilloscope, swipe from top (or press trigger button) and you will see the menu. Then choose "Display". Please notice there are many other useful option. Please see the screenshots.
 
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Offline Micsig_support

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Re: Micsig Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #58 on: July 24, 2017, 05:46:30 am »
we will have a new firmware for tBook series, and i will send you. ;)
JL
 
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Offline fishandchips

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Re: Micsig Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #59 on: July 24, 2017, 11:32:28 am »
Got it. Thanks.
 

Offline kirill_ka

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Re: Micsig Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #60 on: July 27, 2017, 05:38:21 am »
I just upgraded TO1074 to the new firmware version. Version info now says 7.14.1.273.
There seems to be a serious problem with Auto triggering mode.
It doesn't show triggered waveform every time. I mean if the signal is not repetitive, you may not see it's there. I suppose it's triggering, just the waveform is not shown. That's because I see delay in screen update when the signal is coming. Delay is barely noticeable in edge triggering mode, but apparent in nth-edge mode.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 05:48:07 am by kirill_ka »
 

Offline exe

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Re: Micsig Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #61 on: July 27, 2017, 07:40:03 am »
Hi!

I have a problem. The scope switches on when I switch off mains (I always switch off my mini lab when not at home). Please check this video: https://photos.app.goo.gl/qYjAqLrOYjNGmHps1 (the scope turns on by itself). Is it possible to change/fix this? May be I'm doing something wrong?
 

Offline fishandchips

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Re: Micsig Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #62 on: July 28, 2017, 04:34:43 am »
I just upgraded TO1074 to the new firmware version. Version info now says 7.14.1.273.
There seems to be a serious problem with Auto triggering mode.
It doesn't show triggered waveform every time. I mean if the signal is not repetitive, you may not see it's there. I suppose it's triggering, just the waveform is not shown. That's because I see delay in screen update when the signal is coming. Delay is barely noticeable in edge triggering mode, but apparent in nth-edge mode.

I also tried triggering in  7.14.0.227 but it did not work.
 

Offline kirill_ka

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Re: Micsig Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #63 on: July 28, 2017, 05:57:56 am »
I just upgraded TO1074 to the new firmware version. Version info now says 7.14.1.273.
There seems to be a serious problem with Auto triggering mode.
It doesn't show triggered waveform every time. I mean if the signal is not repetitive, you may not see it's there. I suppose it's triggering, just the waveform is not shown. That's because I see delay in screen update when the signal is coming. Delay is barely noticeable in edge triggering mode, but apparent in nth-edge mode.

I also tried triggering in  7.14.0.227 but it did not work.
Thank you. May be I didn't notice the behaviour on 227. And I can't verify as downgrade is not possible.
 

Offline Micsig_support

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Re: Micsig Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #64 on: July 28, 2017, 09:19:40 am »
I just upgraded TO1074 to the new firmware version. Version info now says 7.14.1.273.
There seems to be a serious problem with Auto triggering mode.
It doesn't show triggered waveform every time. I mean if the signal is not repetitive, you may not see it's there. I suppose it's triggering, just the waveform is not shown. That's because I see delay in screen update when the signal is coming. Delay is barely noticeable in edge triggering mode, but apparent in nth-edge mode.

Sorry, Can you show me one pic or small video, i can not understand your meaning well.

or can Iput this problem to another thread? they are more professional than me? :) :)
JL
 

Offline kirill_ka

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Re: Micsig Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #65 on: July 28, 2017, 10:00:15 am »
I just upgraded TO1074 to the new firmware version. Version info now says 7.14.1.273.
There seems to be a serious problem with Auto triggering mode.
It doesn't show triggered waveform every time. I mean if the signal is not repetitive, you may not see it's there. I suppose it's triggering, just the waveform is not shown. That's because I see delay in screen update when the signal is coming. Delay is barely noticeable in edge triggering mode, but apparent in nth-edge mode.

Sorry, Can you show me one pic or small video, i can not understand your meaning well.
or can Iput this problem to another thread? they are more professional than me? :) :)

Well, possibly it's me not understanding auto trigger mode. Just verified the same setup with rigol 1052e. It does almost the same.
Sometimes it shows that it's triggered, but no waveform is shown. However, rigol captures waveform more often than micsig.
I hooked up rigol and micsig to the same signal and trigger out of micsig goes to CH2 of rigol.
First picture shows when rigol triggered, but micsig did not. Second picture shows when both triggered.

Just for the sake of completeness: small video where frequency counter shows that something is there, but no signal can be seen.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByyNmUO6lGfOZTJvVjZCNGpRZjQ/view
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 10:35:10 am by kirill_ka »
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Micsig Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #66 on: July 28, 2017, 10:10:03 am »
Using auto trigger on slow signals doesn't work. In auto trigger mode a trigger event is generated after a time-out.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline exe

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Re: Micsig Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #67 on: July 29, 2017, 05:31:30 pm »
Well, possibly it's me not understanding auto trigger mode. Just verified the same setup with rigol 1052e. It does almost the same.
Sometimes it shows that it's triggered, but no waveform is shown. However, rigol captures waveform more often than micsig.

Well, if it's waveform update issue (looks not to be the case, but still..), then you can change vector mode to dots and enable high-speed capture (from bottom menu, should display H in status when enabled) and disable persistence. I'd also put it in auto triggering mode to verify waveform is what you expect (ok, this is stupid, I know).

And, if nothing works, reset settings to factory default.

Anyway, this is strange, but for most strange things with this scope I was able to find an explanation (and a fix).
 
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Offline fishandchips

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Re: Micsig Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #68 on: August 04, 2017, 01:22:14 am »
Hi Micsig,

I want to get an official confirmation from you.

I have seen the screenshots of the mini posted by some forum members. Their signal curves look solid but mine are not. Could you please check if there is anything wrong with my scope?


I connected a function generator to the oscilloscope and observed the following:

1. The measured amplitude and frequency are slightly different across the channels. Is this normal?

2. While the horizontal lines of the square wave on Channel 3 are straight and horizontal, those of Channel 4 are slightly tilted. How come?

The horizontal lines on Channel 1 are slightly tilted and not straight. In the case of Channel 2, the tilting is very bad. Can you please tell me what is going on? Is there something wrong with my scope? I did not make any adjustment on the function generator while I did the testing.


Screenshots

Channel 1: https://ibb.co/jqQe7v
Channel 2: https://ibb.co/hXP6nv
Channel 3: https://ibb.co/kioAEa
Channel 4: https://ibb.co/d8Wmnv


Next, I did the self adjust. I observed the following:

3. It looks like a new issue came out which did not happen before. i.e. some horizontal lines became dotted lines. See the two green lines at the bottom (on channel 4) for example.  How the lines are dotted rather than solid like before the self adjust?

4. In Channel 1, the yellow horizontal lines are not very straight.

Channel 1:  https://ibb.co/kT8Wpa
Channel 2:  https://ibb.co/eYMUaF
Channel 3:  https://ibb.co/mTUt2v
Channel 4:  https://ibb.co/dYANvF


Then, I calibrated the four probes and observed the following:

5. In Channel 1, the horizontal lines are dotted ones rather than solid horizontal. Same as those in Channels 3 and 4.

6. In Channel 2, the top left of each square wave are cornered. The bottom corner of each square wave seemed ok. However, when I turned the knob of the prob to make the top left corner of each square wave a straight 90 degree angle, the bottom ones became cornered.

7. In Channel 4, how come I cannot make the top three horizontal lines straight? They are still wave-like even after Self Cal and probe compensation.


Channel 1: https://ibb.co/dMAG7v
Channel 2: https://ibb.co/bPtEua
Channel 3: https://ibb.co/fQPyLF
Channel 4: https://ibb.co/b4pXfF
 

Offline jjoonathan

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Re: Micsig Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #69 on: August 04, 2017, 03:40:45 am »
> In the case of Channel 2, the tilting is very bad. Can you please tell me what is going on?

AC coupling is going on  ::)
 

Offline exe

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Re: Micsig Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #70 on: August 04, 2017, 07:17:45 am »
Hi! I'm no expert in scopes, but I think there is nothing wrong with your scope. But it needs a bit of probe adjustment and some understanding of how it works (sorry if you waited an answer from Micsig, but got it from me).

1. The measured amplitude and frequency are slightly different across the channels. Is this normal?
For amplitude yes (within 2%), provided we are talking about low freq signals (square wave is _not_ a low freq signal as it always contains high freq components causing ringing and peaking). If probe compensation and matching is not ideal there will be difference. Scope channels are also a tiny bit different.  For high-freq signals it gets quite complicated, you need to use special measuring techniques to get accurate results (even putting your body near the circuit or moving a hand can affect measurements). For freq. I dunno, I need to see how you do it. There are two ways to measure freq on this scope (one is using hw counter, another one is by analyzing waveform). Long story short, try to unzoom the picture to fit more periods of your signal and check if measurements more stable and accurate.

2. While the horizontal lines of the square wave on Channel 3 are straight and horizontal, those of Channel 4 are slightly tilted. How come?
Given the freq. of the signal, I don't think it's a AC/DC coupling issue (but I can be wrong, check all channels have same settings). Looks more like you overcompensated the probe on channel 4. May be same for other channels.


3. It looks like a new issue came out which did not happen before. i.e. some horizontal lines became dotted lines. See the two green lines at the bottom (on channel 4) for example.  How the lines are dotted rather than solid like before the self adjust?
It's actually how it is supposed to work. Please read about visual persistence in digital scopes, or change settings (like, remove persistence) if you don't like how your waveform is displayed. In short, it displays multiple captures at once. Waveform become wider at places where captures diverse due to, e.g., noise.

4. In Channel 1, the yellow horizontal lines are not very straight.
Overcompensation. You tried to make "square" wave as square as possible, right? But no, that's impossible. Edges cannot be perfectly vertical and nice, no scope can do that. So, you have to find a balance when edges are good-enough and you don't get much other distortions (tilts, ringing, etc).

I skipped answering other questions as they all about the same: probe compensation, measuring square waves, visual persistence, accuracy of scopes and high-freq measurements. I think you can ask in https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/ to know more about these. Just please do not ask all at once, pick one topic at time :).
 
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Offline fishandchips

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Re: Micsig Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #71 on: August 04, 2017, 10:41:29 pm »
Hi! I'm no expert in scopes, but I think there is nothing wrong with your scope. But it needs a bit of probe adjustment and some understanding of how it works (sorry if you waited an answer from Micsig, but got it from me).

Thanks. It is good to get answers from multiple sources for cross checking. However, I should get official answers from them in case I need to return the scope later on but the discovery of problems is too late for me to return.

Actually I sent them the questions by email awhile ago but no direct answers to my questions.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 10:43:22 pm by fishandchips »
 

Offline StillTrying

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Re: Micsig Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #72 on: August 04, 2017, 11:14:43 pm »
After I adjust brightness and contrast I think fishandchips's 50Hz square waves are fine, you're always going to get some times were the voltage level is in between 2 ADC values and the tops slope a bit between the 2 values.
I can't find any other micsig low frequency square waves but there's some ~100Hz squares from other scopes here.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1000x-series-oscilloscopes/msg1211140/#msg1211140
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 11:17:20 pm by StillTrying »
.  That took much longer than I thought it would.
 

Offline exe

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Re: Micsig Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #73 on: August 05, 2017, 08:49:39 am »
50Hz square waves are fine

Huh, for whatever reason I thought the signal freq was much higher than 50Hz. Then, I might be wrong about overcompensation.
 

Offline Micsig_support

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Re: Micsig Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #74 on: August 07, 2017, 05:28:19 am »
Hi! I'm no expert in scopes, but I think there is nothing wrong with your scope. But it needs a bit of probe adjustment and some understanding of how it works (sorry if you waited an answer from Micsig, but got it from me).

Thanks. It is good to get answers from multiple sources for cross checking. However, I should get official answers from them in case I need to return the scope later on but the discovery of problems is too late for me to return.

Actually I sent them the questions by email awhile ago but no direct answers to my questions.

can you resend your email to amercia@micsig.com. then I will reply you. I am sorry for their slow response.
JL
 


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