Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1104 review (100Mhz 4 channel 'scope)

[mikeselectricstuff]

Some of you regret not buying the battery with the scope. What is the point for paying extra to get a battery if the scope is used on the bench table all the time?

Because you never know when you might need to use it away from the bench. Or floating. Or you may need to minmise noise.
 It's a lot more usefulness for a small additional cost, pretty much a no-brainer.

[nctnico]

With the battery you don't have to plug it in before using (unless the battery is empty). Let's not forget the lazyness/ease of use factor.

[fishandchips]

I read that the tBook mini have all the probes connected at the top while the tBook have all the probes connected on the side. I don't know the length of the probes. If they are long, I let them fall from the top to the desk (on the back side of the scope first) and then move the probes to the front. If not, they fall from the top to the desk (on the front side of the scope). In that case, do the cables touch the screen and cause unexpected touching? Do they interference with the readings?

[nctnico]

I read that the tBook mini have all the probes connected at the top while the tBook have all the probes connected on the side. I don't know the length of the probes. If they are long, I let them fall from the top to the desk (on the back side of the scope first) and then move the probes to the front. If not, they fall from the top to the desk (on the front side of the scope). In that case, do the cables touch the screen and cause unexpected touching? Do they interference with the readings?

I was afraid of that too but due to it's compact size you can have the TO1000 close to the circuit under test so the probe cables can be guided down at the back of the TO1000 without the probe cables getting too short.

[fishandchips]

Thanks. Since I need a large desk space, I made a two-level shelf out of IKEA's parts and put it on top of a desk. I plan to put the scope on the lower deck of the shelf. So, I am concerned if the cables are long enough to guide down at the back of the scope. What do you think? Could you please let us know the length of the cable with the probe not taken into account?

I am in Canada right now. Is it better to buy the scope through Amazon (product to be shipped from the manufacturer's branch in Hong Kong) or directly from the Chinese manufacturer? What are the pros and cons?

[BMCha]

If you're getting the TO1104 in North America I'd go with Amazon as that seems to be the best price (even compared to the same NA package on their aliexpress store--not sure if it's the same in CAD). I recently ordered it from the listing below on June 19th and despite the estimated shipping saying July 5-17 it arrived just under a week later on June 26.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B06Y62BZ4N/ref=ya_aw_od_pi?ie=UTF8&psc=1

This appears to be the same on amazon.ca

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/aw/d/B06Y62BZ4N/ref=mp_s_a_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1497374616&sr=8-1-fkmr0&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=to1104%2Bnorth%2Bamerica&th=1&psc=1

[TK]

If you're getting the TO1104 in North America I'd go with Amazon as that seems to be the best price (even compared to the same NA package on their aliexpress store--not sure if it's the same in CAD). I recently ordered it from the listing below on June 19th and despite the estimated shipping saying July 5-17 it arrived just under a week later on June 26.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B06Y62BZ4N/ref=ya_aw_od_pi?ie=UTF8&psc=1

This appears to be the same on amazon.ca

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/aw/d/B06Y62BZ4N/ref=mp_s_a_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1497374616&sr=8-1-fkmr0&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=to1104%2Bnorth%2Bamerica&th=1&psc=1

I found this TO1104 fully loaded with battery shipped by Amazon Prime:

https://www.amazon.com/Micsig-Tablet-Oscilloscope-100MHz-TO1104/dp/B0711CN4SX/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1498761154&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=micsig+TO1104

[fishandchips]

If you're getting the TO1104 in North America I'd go with Amazon as that seems to be the best price (even compared to the same NA package on their aliexpress store--not sure if it's the same in CAD). I recently ordered it from the listing below on June 19th and despite the estimated shipping saying July 5-17 it arrived just under a week later on June 26.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B06Y62BZ4N/ref=ya_aw_od_pi?ie=UTF8&psc=1

This appears to be the same on amazon.ca

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/aw/d/B06Y62BZ4N/ref=mp_s_a_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1497374616&sr=8-1-fkmr0&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=to1104%2Bnorth%2Bamerica&th=1&psc=1

Does yours include those colorful BNC caps?

[BMCha]

Yes it did include those.

[fishandchips]

For the TO1104, what kind of probes are included? x1 or x10 or ones with an option to change between the two?

[TK]

My TO1104 unit included 4 x 200MHz passive X10 probes.

[fishandchips]

Thanks. Do they come with an adapter that lets the tips connect to a BNC socket of a function generator as mentioned by alm in the thread "Cable to connect function generator to oscilloscope"?

[TK]

No, it did not include the BNC adapters.  You cannot have the best of everything in one single product.

[fishandchips]

No, it did not include the BNC adapters.  You cannot have the best of everything in one single product.

What suggestion do you have to avoid the issue mentioned in Dave's video cited in that thread?

[TK]

No, it did not include the BNC adapters.  You cannot have the best of everything in one single product.

What suggestion do you have to avoid the issue mentioned in Dave's video cited in that thread?

What issue and what thread?  Can you include a link?

[fishandchips]

No, it did not include the BNC adapters.  You cannot have the best of everything in one single product.

What suggestion do you have to avoid the issue mentioned in Dave's video cited in that thread?

What issue and what thread?  Can you include a link?

Reply #11 in the thread: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/cable-to-connect-function-generator-to-oscilloscope/

Expert forum users mentioned that for the function generator I am using, I should not worry about that issue.

[fishandchips]

Any of you bought the Micsig Oscilloscope Bag? How is it?

[exe]

Any of you bought the Micsig Oscilloscope Bag? How is it?

I ordered with a bag. But it's yet to arrive...

[lukier]

Any of you bought the Micsig Oscilloscope Bag? How is it?

Mine TO1074 just arrived today. I don't have time now to check all the functions to the fullest, but after first quick tests I must say I'm quite impressed.

It is really compact, the UI is much more responsive than DS1054Z. It has all the necessities of a basic scope - deep memory, measurements, cursors, variety of triggers, serial decoders, simple math & FFT.

Maybe others don't consider it so, because of a different form factor but I think that TO1074 is a serious competition for DS1054Z - for slightly higher price it has more features (500uV/div, WiFi & HDMI, portability) and better firmware (responsiveness).

[alm]

As it's not mains ground referenced some use it like an isolated channel scope; that is with the signal reference at elevated voltages. Would you trust a wallwart for this use case or prefer complete removal from any external power source ?

I do not understand your point. Either you trust the isolation of the channels, which means the scope should be safe to touch, and the power supply does not have to provide any isolation beyond mains, or you do not trust the isolation and you should not touch the scope at all during elevated measurements. In the latter case, you probably should not use it for floating measurements at all, even on battery power.

The only advantage I see for battery power on the bench is to limit capacitance to ground, but that is not a safety issue but a signal integrity issue (common mode noise). The old hanging the scope by three silk threads .

[tautech]

As it's not mains ground referenced some use it like an isolated channel scope; that is with the signal reference at elevated voltages. Would you trust a wallwart for this use case or prefer complete removal from any external power source ?

I do not understand your point. Either you trust the isolation of the channels, which means the scope should be safe to touch, and the power supply does not have to provide any isolation beyond mains, or you do not trust the isolation and you should not touch the scope at all during elevated measurements. In the latter case, you probably should not use it for floating measurements at all, even on battery power.

As the question was about using it just mains (walwart) powered or getting the battery, it's clear to me that the intention is to use it floating where maybe it's not designed for such use, however many do.
If one was using any HH at elevated reference voltages wouldn't it be wise to have it battery powered ?

You can't trust anything that is not expressly written in the specs........elevation above surroundings,mains Gnd, max voltages etc.
With isolated channel scopes all these specs are listed, SHS1000 models:

CATII 1000V and CATIII 600V between two channels references?between channels reference and earth ground
CATII 600V and CATIII 300V between channels reference and Multimeter input reference
CATII 300V and CATIII 150V input direct
CATII 1000V and CATIII 600V input with 10?1 probe (supplied probe)

[alm]

Ah, it is a non-isolated handheld/tablet. I missed that, my bad. Interesting how they discuss floating measurements in the manual for their handheld MS2xx series, and how if should be limited to 42Vpeak and 36Vrms, but not for the tablet scopes. The document about tablet scope safety is obviously 404 (not found) . Are they expecting the tablet scopes to usually be grounded?

I am not sure if using a battery would make it any safer. If you manage to float the instrument so far above ground to break down the insulation of the power supply (are they not hipot-tested to something like 1.5 kV?), then I am not sure if a dead power supply is the worst of your worries. At least then the GFCI (if present) might trip. There is of course the issue of the insulation resistance of the power cord. If you limit the floating voltage to sensible levels as suggested in the MS2xxx manual, then I do not see how battery vs wall wart makes a difference. I am also not sure if suggesting floating use to beginners, if the manual does not mention it at all, is wise.

[tautech]

Ah, it is a non-isolated handheld/tablet. I missed that, my bad. Interesting how they discuss floating measurements in the manual for their handheld MS2xx series, and how if should be limited to 42Vpeak and 36Vrms, but not for the tablet scopes. The document about tablet scope safety is obviously 404 (not found) . Are they expecting the tablet scopes to usually be grounded?

I am not sure if using a battery would make it any safer. If you manage to float the instrument so far above ground to break down the insulation of the power supply (are they not hipot-tested to something like 1.5 kV?), then I am not sure if a dead power supply is the worst of your worries. At least then the GFCI (if present) might trip. There is of course the issue of the insulation resistance of the power cord. If you limit the floating voltage to sensible levels as suggested in the MS2xxx manual, then I do not see how battery vs wall wart makes a difference. I am also not sure if suggesting floating use to beginners, if the manual does not mention it at all, is wise.

Yes of course.

There is a lot more interest in HH/tablet DSO's primarily for one reason....they can be floated if required. Some of this stems from ongoing discussion of this topic and a greater awareness of different measurement techniques.
Dave's vid on 'How to not blow up your scope' alerted many to the traps of scope measurements.....common knowledge for those that have been around a while with scopes........ and now buyers are looking for other solutions to this age old problem.
Rather that spend more for truly isolated channel DSO/HH's or a set of differential probes many are opting for HH's and floating them............whether we like this or not.
As users get a handle on floating scopes they WILL start to push the float voltages higher, of course at their peril and the likely causes of problems......PSU and USB connections need be identified and not used at elevated reference voltages.

[fishandchips]

Excuse me. What is mean by "floating" the scope?

[TK]

Excuse me. What is mean by "floating" the scope?

Removing the GND in in the AC plug so the oscilloscope ground is not connected to earth.  It is a very bad and dangerous practice.