Multimeter / Bench Meter Delimma (--Fluke 87)

[DanielSpokane]

Here is my dilemma:

I have a Fluke 87 (original). In general I like the multimeter and have used it for years and years. I work on tube amps and other electronics of which I test capacitance (amoung other things) somewhat regularly. The Fluke 87 only tests capacitance up to 5uF (above that there is a procedure in the manual that includes timing etc.). Instead when I test larger capacitors above that I use an old Micronta bench meter. For about a year now I've been oscillating on what to do. I'm have about $300 +/- to spend. I'm considering either selling my Fluke 87 and buying an 87V... or buying a used bench meter to compliment my 87 (and get rid of my Micronta). I was also looking at the EEVblog meter Dave is selling (out in Dec?)... thinking that might be kind of cool. But I'm also a big Fluke fan and would like to have an 87V. Also lots of bench meters... but at $300 seems like they won't do much more than an 87V. But I have and 87 (original)... so may be a bench meter would be a good choice... but ... but... shoot. I'm back in the cycle.

I've been in indecision long enough that it dawned on me maybe someone would have a strong opinion or recommendation. So I pose the question to you. Any takers?

[Fungus]

Get an LCR meter to compliment your F87. 

Edit: An LCR meter can give you a lot more information about your capacitor than nominal capacitance - they usually tell you the ESR, etc. as well. Ideal for audio work.

[rsjsouza]

Usually bench meters don't measure capacitance but, considering your budget, a cheaper multimeter such as the UT-61E goes quite high on the scale (200mF) - the major issue with this brand is long term calibration.

If you also want to go beyond the simple capacitance checker, you can get a more full featured LCR meter that will help measure additional capacitor characteristics (as well as inductor and resistor) - the DER-EE DE-5000 is a reliable and relatively cheap candidate. (a musician repair did a brief evaluation here)

Bench meters are usually not portable but tend to have higher resolution and usually feature 4-wire ohms and data logging - however, you did not mention the need for any of those characteristics and I just put them here for your consideration.

Someone with somewhat similar requirements was in a similar dilemma a few weeks ago. Check the ensuing discussion at:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/multimeter-spreadsheet/msg1439426/#msg1439426

[lem_ix]

Get an LCR meter to compliment your F87. 

This, and you'll have money left over for another meter. I think the DER EE DE5000 is the forum champ but I may be mistaken. Personally have a Lutron LCR-9184 does what I need it for. Do remember to discharge the caps.

[Fungus]

An LCR meter can also test your capacitors at different frequencies so you can get an idea of the real capacitance when it's in use* - again, very useful for audio work.

(*) It may be a lot less than the nominal capacitance that a multimeter tells you, depending on ESR, ESI, etc.

[DanielSpokane]

Thank you. That is very helpful. I'm going to chew on that for a bit. I may post more questions/comments after I look into a LCR meter. Seems like it would be incredibly useful!

[mzacharias]

If you love your Fluke - you're going to end up getting the 87V anyway. The attraction is just too strong. Resistance is futile.

[DanielSpokane]

Haha! You make a very compelling point!!

[nctnico]

Usually bench meters don't measure capacitance

Euhhh.. All modern bench meters can measure capacitance nowadays.

[Fungus]

Usually bench meters don't measure capacitance

Euhhh.. All modern bench meters can measure capacitance nowadays.

Even the "old Micronta" can do it. 

If you love your Fluke - you're going to end up getting the 87V anyway. The attraction is just too strong. Resistance is futile.

If he buys the $100 LCR he's got $200 to put towards one.

[rsjsouza]

Usually bench meters don't measure capacitance

Euhhh.. All modern bench meters can measure capacitance nowadays.

I stand corrected, although only partially. Not all of the meters still in production support this feature: Rigol, B&K Precision, Keithley 2000 series, Tektronix, some GW Instek,,, There may be others.

At any rate, at the OP's under US$300 there will certainly no modern bench meters available.

[metrologist]

I have an original 87, plus a couple Micronta's (their best hand held model I believe), and several inexpensive imports, and a Uni-T clamp meter, and a DER-EE LCR meter.

I would pick up an LCR meter and keep what you have... The DER-EE kit I bought came with probing tweezers too...

[slurry]

a Peak LCR40 would be a nice complement to the Fluke 87 

https://www.peakelec.co.uk/acatalog/jz_instruments.html

I have the LCR40, ESR70 and DCApro and i'm happy with all of them for general fault finding.

[tautech]

DanielSpokane
Based on my previous (not so much now) repair work and ventures into SMD .....

If you're doing any SMD a good pair of Smart Tweezers will be a better investment than a bench meter for LCR work.
http://www.smarttweezers.com/st5s/

I've got an earlier set than ST5 and many times they have identified crook caps, either low C or high ESR.
L measurement works great too.
TBH when examining a PCB in detail I use them much more than a DMM.

And yes I can grab my demo 6.5 unit bench meter anytime but the tweezers are faster and more convenient.

Tweezers while not being able to span two connections more than ~1" easily do most TH components either by using the points or an under/over style against the leads and all one handed. This type of use was unexpected when I got them many years back. I use them to 5kuF quite regularly.

[coromonadalix]

get an lcr meter like an  de-5000  doesn't cost a fortune and goes up to 100khz  wich is the standard nowadays, esr  etc ...   would be practical for you

for an bench meter i've sent you an pm email

[Lightages]

Another vote to keep your trusted meter and get a DER EE DE-5000. If you really insist on another multimeter then consider a BM829S ans still be under or close to your budget with the DE-5000.

[DanielSpokane]

Was looking on ebay and I can get a Agilent U1732A for about the same price as a DER EE DE-5000. I'm always drawn to HP.... but the DER EE DE-5000 seems to be a staple for LCR meters. Thoughts?

[BillB]

Another vote for the DE-5000!  For $100 street price, you aren't going to find a better LCR.  Pocket the saved cash for the next purchase.   

[Alex P]

Euhhh.. All modern bench meters can measure capacitance nowadays.

Certainly not. E.g. Fluke 8845A and Tektronix DMM4040 cannot.

[coromonadalix]

An fluke 189  will go up to 50,000 uf,  tested up to 12,000uf and was spot on, and doesn't cost a fortune 199$ usd at fixmyfluke.com   

they have several models ...  bought a second fluke189 from them, very satisfied and clean, and i finally managed to find 2 more bp189 battery packs for a total of 3 .... 

Im waiting for an restocking of accuhard a101 usb lcr meter, sure it need an pc, but at 120$  its still par on specs with an deer de-5000 but im hesitating between the two ... found on ebay some tweezers who goes on standard dmm plugs spacing and other with kelvin modes gold plated under 25$...

An fluke 8846a goes up to 100,000 uf if i recall, but at minimum 1.2 k$$$  outch

In the not recent section i have :  my Gossen's 28s and 29s goes up to 30,000 uf, 2x fluke 189,   just sold an old bk precision 5490 (aka metrix mx556) who could go up to 50,000 uf too, they aged very well and where all in specs

There's not a ton of meters who can do 2000uf and up   for an dmm a large capacitor may take up to 10 secs to display, and a real lcr meter may be faster, and have more options

Totally against oled based meters and some keysight, and some other badly designed brand of meters,  my personal choices where data logging and easy fuses access, and external power supply possibility, i totally hated to open the fluke 83 at my job to change the fuses, changed them for the 189, way way better

Dont know why the 187 and the 189 did not gain more exposure than th 8x series, tried the 287 and 289  and hated them

The eevblog gw121 is tempting  but i'll wait for more maturity and corrected physical parts and firmware bugs before buying it.

[DanielSpokane]

Well after much consternation... I'm thinking maybe I need to adjust my budget.

I'm thinking I'm going to buy a DER EE DE-5000 for capacitor measurements. I've been convinced of that.

I think I'm also going to buy a bench meter. I think I would like a bench meter not just for the cap measurements (which was the reason I was originally looking) but also because it would be nice to have some added digits as well as some of the new functions they are putting in a lot of the newer bench meters. Right now I'm think a Siglent SDM 3055 looks pretty cool. I wish it was 6.5 digits... but it's a pretty big cost jump going to the 3065x. I looked at a few others (the Siglent looks like it has a better display and price is lower than the Rigol, etc.). Seems like you get a lot of value with the Siglent SDM3055 (Amazon is selling for $439).

Thoughts? Fatal flaws? 

[nanofrog]

Well after much consternation... I'm thinking maybe I need to adjust my budget.

I'm thinking I'm going to buy a DER EE DE-5000 for capacitor measurements. I've been convinced of that.

I think I'm also going to buy a bench meter. I think I would like a bench meter not just for the cap measurements (which was the reason I was originally looking) but also because it would be nice to have some added digits as well as some of the new functions they are putting in a lot of the newer bench meters. Right now I'm think a Siglent SDM 3055 looks pretty cool. I wish it was 6.5 digits... but it's a pretty big cost jump going to the 3065x. I looked at a few others (the Siglent looks like it has a better display and price is lower than the Rigol, etc.). Seems like you get a lot of value with the Siglent SDM3055 (Amazon is selling for $439).

Given the DER EE DE -5000 will do more with capacitors than a DMM anyway, you'd be better off ditching the capacitance function on a bench DMM and opt for 6.5 digits then (or less money for a 5.5 digit model).

There's a lot of decent used HP/Agilent/Keysight 344601A's on eBay right now, and within what you're looking to spend on the SDM3055.

If 5.5 digits will actually do, you'd be able to get a dual display model for even less. One example would be a GW Instek GDM-8251A.

[EEVblog]

I wouldn't bother upgrading from the 87 to 87V, much better off having a 2nd multimeter, either bench or handheld.
If you can get a 5.5 or 6.5 digit bench meter for the money, then that can be very useful.

[Fungus]

Seems like you get a lot of value with the Siglent SDM3055 (Amazon is selling for $439).

That certainly puts the price of a Fluke 87V into perspective.

[SMB784]

I wouldn't bother upgrading from the 87 to 87V, much better off having a 2nd multimeter, either bench or handheld.
If you can get a 5.5 or 6.5 digit bench meter for the money, then that can be very useful.

Alot of HP 3457A's are going for <$200 on eBay. Most sell for around $150-175, and in my opinion it's really hard to beat that performance at that price.