Multimeter Review: Agilent U1272A

[mjlorton]

Here is my initial review of the U1272A.

A quick summary of my findings:

* Look and feel: Good to very good
* Test leads / probes: Not good
* Accuracy: Excellent
* Resolution: Very good
* Continuity tester: Very good
* Features: Excellent
* Robustness as an industrial multimeter: Good

I need more time to play with the extended features and to do a comparison with the Fluke87-V.



Review Index:
Introduction - 00:00:05 to 00:01:17
General look and feel - 00:01:19 to 00:06:03
Auto range, display resolution and update speed - 00:06:05 to 00:09:32
Accuracy, calibration and voltage reference test - 00:09:33 to 00:11:44
Current and resistance reference tests - 00:11:46 to 00:15:27
Continuity tester - 00:15:30 to 00:16:39
Min, Max, Average feature - 00:16:41 to 00:17:57
Trig Hold and Auto Hold Feature - 00:17:59 to 00:18:59
Multimeter teardown - 00:19:01 to 00:24:00
Low battery warning test - 00:24:02 to 00:26:26
Final Conclusion - 00:26:28 to 00:28:37


Cheers,
Martin

[ron]

Well done!  Good tempo and concise.  Great review. 

The lead compensation feature is interesting and might bear further investigation.

One question--why did the battery test start at ~9v instead of 6v ?

[mjlorton]

Well done!  Good tempo and concise.  Great review. 

The lead compensation feature is interesting and might bear further investigation.

One question--why did the battery test start at ~9v instead of 6v ?

Thanks Ron...I hope to continue improving with you kind guidance ;-)

Yes...that 9v!!! Very silly me...I was in a rush and forgot it should have been 6v...I have added an annotation to the video...thankfully the 1272A survived.

The lead compensation certainly is interesting, I will post a little more on it in the video on the extended features.

Thanks again for your input.

Cheers,
Martin.

[saturation]

Most excellent. Thanks for doing it.  Its been ?~ 1 year since I did mine, there were some significant v1.x bugs, what firmware version is shipped with the new 1272a?

Early models have a defective nub on the stand, it wears out very fast. 

The cal certificate is great if you need such; its fully automated so the cost to do it is fairly small done the Agilent way.  However,  one 1272a I received with a certificate was out of cal, and the values the meter provided on some ranges and the certificate did not match.  Agilent sent me another test meter thereafter.

On an 1252a DMM, same thing on the 5V range, and both meters still had valid cal certificates.

So always good to performance test your new DMMs to insure it meets specs.

[TerminalJack505]

Good timing as I'm in the market for another meter.  I was looking at this one just yesterday.  Thanks for the review.

[mjlorton]

Most excellent. Thanks for doing it.  Its been ?~ 1 year since I did mine, there were some significant v1.x bugs, what firmware version is shipped with the new 1272a?

Thanks for the feedback. Mine came with firmware version 2.00

The cal certificate is great if you need such; its fully automated so the cost to do it is fairly small done the Agilent way.  However,  one 1272a I received with a certificate was out of cal, and the values the meter provided on some ranges and the certificate did not match.  Agilent sent me another test meter thereafter.

On an 1252a DMM, same thing on the 5V range, and both meters still had valid cal certificates.

So always good to performance test your new DMMs to insure it meets specs.

Interesting info on the calibration service...looking at the print out I figured it must be automated but good to know the cost should be reasonable as well.
It's a little concerning that a valid cert is not reflecting what the meter should be....and I guess most folks are never going to realise that...

Cheers,
Martin.

[mjlorton]

Good timing as I'm in the market for another meter.  I was looking at this one just yesterday.  Thanks for the review.

My pleasure and thanks for the feedback.

Cheers,
Martin.

[Richard W.]

Hello Martin,

nice review, but 9V is a little bit to much for a circuit which is designed for 4 AAA batteries 
I'd not dare on my 289 to try this experiment.
but the meter obviously survived (due to it's swichmode voltage regulators?!) that's nice.

Have you noticed the bargraph at 25:30? It goes up and up..


regards

[saturation]

Thanks.  Yes, whenever I receive a new instrument, its best to do a performance test to check it meets the specs.  Most folks simply assume its factory perfect and begin using it.  Most of your video tests are akin to select samples of performance tests, but there are detailed sets somewhere in most service manuals.  Some of the higher levels of the tests require more equipment, but just try to get as many done as possible.  In the 1272a service manual, it begins at page 10.  It opens:

"The performance verification tests are recommended as
acceptance tests when you first receive the instrument. The
acceptance test results should be compared against the one
year test limits. After acceptance, you should repeat the
performance verification tests at every calibration interval.
If the multimeter fails the performance verification tests,
adjustment or repair is required."

In the case of a new DMM, it just gets shipped back to the seller.

Most excellent. Thanks for doing it.  Its been ?~ 1 year since I did mine, there were some significant v1.x bugs, what firmware version is shipped with the new 1272a?

Thanks for the feedback. Mine came with firmware version 2.00

The cal certificate is great if you need such; its fully automated so the cost to do it is fairly small done the Agilent way.  However,  one 1272a I received with a certificate was out of cal, and the values the meter provided on some ranges and the certificate did not match.  Agilent sent me another test meter thereafter.

On an 1252a DMM, same thing on the 5V range, and both meters still had valid cal certificates.

So always good to performance test your new DMMs to insure it meets specs.

Interesting info on the calibration service...looking at the print out I figured it must be automated but good to know the cost should be reasonable as well.
It's a little concerning that a valid cert is not reflecting what the meter should be....and I guess most folks are never going to realise that...

Cheers,
Martin.

[alm]

Shifting the burden of QA to the consumer is a very lame excuse, and should result in the customer black-listing that manufacturer for some period of time. It's good to trust AND verify, but that doesn't mean the manufacturer isn't 100% responsible for screwing up.

What does the list of recommended equipment for a performance test look like, and what percentage of the price of the DMM does it represent? Assume you buy a DMM calibrator and its manual contains a similar notice, now what?

Should one just discard the Agilent cal certificate and budget for third-party calibration? That's going to make Fluke pricing look very attractive.

[lavo-1]

Excellent review as ever I have watched your Youtube channel for some time now and I always look forward to your reviews.
This does look a nice meter, but I will always stick with Fluke 87 series as it has stood up to my job working off shore in the oil industry which I think is possibly one of the harshest environments any test equipment could ever take.
Look forward to more vid's

[mjlorton]

Excellent review as ever I have watched your Youtube channel for some time now and I always look forward to your reviews.
This does look a nice meter, but I will always stick with Fluke 87 series as it has stood up to my job working off shore in the oil industry which I think is possibly one of the harshest environments any test equipment could ever take.
Look forward to more vid's

Thanks for your feedback. I concur with your view of the Fluke 87 being more robust in harsh environments. This should come out in a side by side review.
Thanks for your support.
Martin.

[benemorius]

It didn't seem to do so well on the supply voltage test after considering that there are 4 cells instead of 6. It started demanding new batteries at a very healthy 1.05V per cell and the bar graph started acting up immediately thereafter. By the time you actually reached  a dead state of 0.8V per cell, the display was pretty much gone entirely and the bar graph had long since become useless. That isn't very acceptable, and it's certainly nothing to be proud of. Perhaps in your extended review you can shed some light on the situation and hopefully Agilent will step up their game a bit. Assuming it withstands the test of time, it looks like they're very close to having a damn good meter here.

[samgab]

The battery life isn't as bad as it seems. Due to hysteresis in Alkaline and NiMH cells, when the current draw is very low, such as in this device, the (essentially "resting") voltage remains above ~1.2V until the cells are almost spent. It only dips below that substantially (with capacity still remaining in the cells) when there is a high current load, which doesn't happen even with the backlight on in this meter. I'd be comfortable running this meter on eneloops.

[IanB]

Just making comments as I watch. At 7m30s, with that fast update speed: how would you read a fluctuating or rapidly changing signal? The digits would become blurred and hard to read. Is there a "slow it down" mode so you get a chance to read the (average) value?

[IanB]

At the beginning: do the probe tip guards really not unscrew to expose the whole length of the metal probes?

[samgab]

Just making comments as I watch. At 7m30s, with that fast update speed: how would you read a fluctuating or rapidly changing signal? The digits would become blurred and hard to read. Is there a "slow it down" mode so you get a chance to read the (average) value?

If the reading was fluctuating that much, to make it unreadable, probably the best thing to do would be use the averaging feature. That would smooth the reading out nicely.
(Readings are 7 per second on many of the ranges, and I believe the screen is updating that quickly too.)

Edit: RE the probe tips... Yeah, I thought the same thing when I first saw them. I thought "oh, they just unscrew and you haven't discovered that yet"... But NO! They don't unscrew, they are permanently affixed like that!
See the kit they sell with probes with both 4mm (for CAT IV 600V) and 19mm tips:
http://www.home.agilent.com/agilent/product.jspx?cc=US&lc=eng&nid=-536902470.892751

[grenert]

It's too bad that Fluke/Danaher own Pomona now - HP/Agilent used to get their probes from them and they are definitely better than the Chinese probes included with Agilent kit now.

[mjlorton]

Just making comments as I watch. At 7m30s, with that fast update speed: how would you read a fluctuating or rapidly changing signal? The digits would become blurred and hard to read. Is there a "slow it down" mode so you get a chance to read the (average) value?

You make a valid point as I can see the pros and cons of a display that updates that quickly. I had an interesting scenario yesterday where I was trying to measure a rapidly fluctuating mA reading and I had both the Fluke 87-V and the U1272A taking the reading at the same time and using MIN / MAX / Ave  to "smooth" it. I hope to post a video soon showing that senario as it makes for an interesting comparison on several points.

[mjlorton]

Just making comments as I watch. At 7m30s, with that fast update speed: how would you read a fluctuating or rapidly changing signal? The digits would become blurred and hard to read. Is there a "slow it down" mode so you get a chance to read the (average) value?

Have a look at this video and see what you think?



Cheers,
Martin.

[IanB]

Have a look at this video and see what you think?

I think that I don't like the Agilent. If you consider ergonomics or human usability, a digital display should not update more frequently than the eye and brain can absorb the numbers. Practically speaking, this means the display should freeze the current reading for at least a quarter of a second before moving on to the next reading. Any faster than this and you tend to see a blur--any advantage is lost.

Of course the bar graph is different. This is an "analog" display, and it should update as close to real time as the display permits before burring occurs. Obviously a better LCD display with fast pixel response and low persistence would be ideal here. Those ancient slow displays with long persistence are no good at all. They have long since been abandoned on computer or smartphone displays.

Getting back to the display of numerical readings, the ideal situation would be to show three numbers on the display. Every quarter of a second the display should update to show the average over the previous quarter of a second, but simultaneously it should show the high and low values instantaneously measured over that same quarter of a second. The spread of the high and low would give you a measure of the noise, fluctuation or uncertainty on the signal.

This is an interesting situation in that I don't think my ideal meter exists out there at any price point. The Fluke 289 has some nice features, but it is way too big and has that horribly inconvenient soft menu system. Not to mention the appetite for batteries. The Fluke 87V is old technology and is overpriced for what it offers. The Agilent is interesting, but not quite there yet. The designers have built a few too many usability flaws into it. I wonder if the U1251B is any better?

[alm]

Many bench meters, with much faster update rates, implement a configurable windowed averaging, which resets the window of the new reading deviates significantly from the average. This offers a compromise between fast transient response, stable readings for stable values and an indication the fluctuations for unstable values. I find the difference between only a few readings per second and tens of readings per second quite noticeable, at least with fast VFD displays. You can't distinguish the individual values if they're unstable, but the number of fluctuating digits also provides information.

One example is adjusting a trimmer for a voltage of 5.00 V. Quick feedback is essential since humans aren't PID controllers, but the bar graph is useless due to its limited resolution. If the meter is 20 V full scale, the resolution will only be about 0.4 V. Some sort of zoom feature would be convenient. I find it quite easy to judge if the value is above or below 5.00 V, even if it's fluctuating due to my turning of the trimmer.

I haven't used the Agilent handhelds, so I can't comment on their usability.

[IanB]

I find it quite easy to judge if the value is above or below 5.00 V, even if it's fluctuating due to my turning of the trimmer.

I suspect this might be because of the change in the most significant digit. Would you find it as easy to set a value of, say, 4.096 V? Also there is a difference between stable voltages and noisy signals such as from a switching regulator. If the number stops fluctuating as soon as you let go of the adjustment pot that is going to be much easier to deal with.

[alm]

Yes, the change of the most or second-to-most significant digit helps. In the case of 4.096 V, it would be easy to determine whether it would be between 4.090 V and 5.000 V, but the last digit would be harder. The time it takes to display the correct value depends on the transient response, which is improved by a faster update rate. The averaging takes care of displaying a stable value once you stop adjusting.

Using a DMM with an update rate of 3 readings/second for the same job was much harder. It also was completely unable to sense that another signal was quickly fluctuating, it displayed some sort of stable average. The DMM with the much faster sampling rate immediately indicated the fluctuations. A bargraph would probably have been sufficient in the latter case, since the fluctuations were quite large.

[Adrien]

Hi,
Great videos indeed both of them.
I see most of the feedback is from "pro" Fluke users, as an everyday DMM user and a Fluke user I would like to say that Fluke has to up their game. Agilent just made a remarkably good meter. If the only bad thing about it is the probes and how fast it actualizes the display so what? can we actually read and write that fast? When was the last time someone needed to record measurements of that accuracy? We all know here that electronics measurements are never exacts, passive components have tolerances, then temperature, noise, etc... Plus if I was in the need to get that kind of reading I would use the average function.
Don't get me wrong, I see that feedback very useful, but in saying that, would I buy a 87V over a U1272A today, probably not so far I haven't been convinced that spending the extra money for a 87V is worth it. The 87V look old, the display isn't as clear and is quite small. Agilent is very competitive, what meter today matches its performance with its price? I think Fluke are living on their reputation and that's fine, but it is very good to see that Agilent is having a go at them and to be fair they are on the right track.

[mjlorton]

Have a look at this video and see what you think?

I think that I don't like the Agilent. If you consider ergonomics or human usability, a digital display should not update more frequently than the eye and brain can absorb the numbers. Practically speaking, this means the display should freeze the current reading for at least a quarter of a second before moving on to the next reading. Any faster than this and you tend to see a blur--any advantage is lost.

Of course the bar graph is different. This is an "analog" display, and it should update as close to real time as the display permits before burring occurs. Obviously a better LCD display with fast pixel response and low persistence would be ideal here. Those ancient slow displays with long persistence are no good at all. They have long since been abandoned on computer or smartphone displays.

Getting back to the display of numerical readings, the ideal situation would be to show three numbers on the display. Every quarter of a second the display should update to show the average over the previous quarter of a second, but simultaneously it should show the high and low values instantaneously measured over that same quarter of a second. The spread of the high and low would give you a measure of the noise, fluctuation or uncertainty on the signal.

This is an interesting situation in that I don't think my ideal meter exists out there at any price point. The Fluke 289 has some nice features, but it is way too big and has that horribly inconvenient soft menu system. Not to mention the appetite for batteries. The Fluke 87V is old technology and is overpriced for what it offers. The Agilent is interesting, but not quite there yet. The designers have built a few too many usability flaws into it. I wonder if the U1251B is any better?

Ian,

You raise good valid and sensible points about the display. My ears prick up when you mention "my ideal meter"....as I recall Dave started a series on an ideal open multimeter design....I was excited to see what would transpire but I'm not sure Dave posted any more on the subject.

Cheers,
Martin.

[EEVblog]

You raise good valid and sensible points about the display. My ears prick up when you mention "my ideal meter"....as I recall Dave started a series on an ideal open multimeter design....I was excited to see what would transpire but I'm not sure Dave posted any more on the subject.

It wasn't my "ideal" multimeter, as such a thing doesn't exist. It was just different.
Sometime you want the magnificence of the OLED display on the Agilents, or that super fast screen updating. Other times you want slow updating and a huge contrast reflective displays. You lust after <0.01% for everything, yet want 800 hours of battery life. Some time you want all the bells and whistles, whilst other times to just scream for the simplicity of meter that just measures Volts, Ohms and Amps without fuss.
You want the compactness of an EX330, but also want it to have massive HRC fuses and MOV's and survive a nuclear strike.
Every meter is a tradeoff.

Dave.

[nanofrog]

It's too bad that Fluke/Danaher own Pomona now - HP/Agilent used to get their probes from them and they are definitely better than the Chinese probes included with Agilent kit now.

Perhaps Probemaster would be a reasonable alternative.

[robrenz]

Perhaps Probemaster would be a reasonable alternative.

Even though Fluke/Danaher own Pomona now, Pomona products are still available separately.

[nanofrog]

Perhaps Probemaster would be a reasonable alternative.

Even though Fluke/Danaher own Pomona now, Pomona products are still available separately.

My comment was based on the presumption that Agilent wouldn't want to use Pomona in order to both further differentiate their products from Fluke (visually), as well as not contributing funds to Danaher's bottom line. 

[robrenz]

[My comment was based on the presumption that Agilent wouldn't want to use Pomona in order to both further differentiate their products from Fluke (visually), as well as not contributing funds to Danaher's bottom line. 

Sorry my bad,  I wasn't thinking about alternatives from Agilents point of view. I was thinking of user replacements.

[nanofrog]

[My comment was based on the presumption that Agilent wouldn't want to use Pomona in order to both further differentiate their products from Fluke (visually), as well as not contributing funds to Danaher's bottom line. 

Sorry my bad,  I wasn't thinking about alternatives from Agilents point of view. I was thinking of user replacements.

Makes sense, but it would be nice if the included lead set didn't need "replacing" to begin with  , just adding whatever the user needs to go with them if necessary IMO.

Probemaster's 8043S kit is very similar to Agilent's U1169A lead set in terms of price, but includes a bit more (bit cheaper too, and much cheaper than the U1168A which is closer in in what it contains = alligator clips, SMT probes, and a set of hooks). SMT probes and one extra hook vs 8043S kit for a bit more than double the money (USD prices). Combine that with lower quality (probes and strain reliefs), I can't help but feel Agilent pinched a couple of pennies too many. 

[saturation]

The main lead set that came with several of my 1272a and the 1252a were top quality; however the accessory lead sets are low quality, Extech style PVC type.  A key item to look for is silicone rubber insulation in the items, its more expensive and more comfortable to use, most Fluke accessory or Pomona leads are this type, and 5-10x cost of a PVC version.  Given that, even Extech branded silicone leads are better than many Agilent ones, although they are all rated for safety and proper voltage, its just a matter of ergonomics.

[grenert]

I have some of the Probemaster 8000 series leads and they are indeed very nice (on par with Fluke, IMO).  Note that they have a somewhat unusual grip, which I personally like, but is more rounded than Fluke/Pomona.  The leads are thinner and more flexible than the Agilent ones.  Saturation, I think the Agilent leads are of good quality, too, but the thickness makes them bulkier and less flexible than I'd like.  And that bright cherry red color that Agilent uses looks toy-like!    Completely agree with your assessment of the accessory leads/tips.  I can't ding them too much for that, however: Most other manufacturers don't include any extra accessories at all!

On a bit of a tangent here, but I am annoyed that Fluke no longer offers straight-plug leads.  I find it ridiculous that they supply their bench meters with leads that have right-angle plugs.   

[EEVblog]

Hi,
Great videos indeed both of them.
I see most of the feedback is from "pro" Fluke users, as an everyday DMM user and a Fluke user I would like to say that Fluke has to up their game. Agilent just made a remarkably good meter. If the only bad thing about it is the probes and how fast it actualizes the display so what? can we actually read and write that fast? When was the last time someone needed to record measurements of that accuracy? We all know here that electronics measurements are never exacts, passive components have tolerances, then temperature, noise, etc... Plus if I was in the need to get that kind of reading I would use the average function.
Don't get me wrong, I see that feedback very useful, but in saying that, would I buy a 87V over a U1272A today, probably not so far I haven't been convinced that spending the extra money for a 87V is worth it. The 87V look old, the display isn't as clear and is quite small. Agilent is very competitive, what meter today matches its performance with its price? I think Fluke are living on their reputation and that's fine, but it is very good to see that Agilent is having a go at them and to be fair they are on the right track.

FYI, my long overdue review of the U1272A is rendering now, so should be up by tomorrow.

Yes, it's hard to fault the Agilent. Bang-for-buck it just trumps the 87-V.
The only places the 87V was superior was audible continuity speed, screen size and contrast, the High-Z input mode on mV, and of course the "trust" things built up over 20 years in that model.
The Agilent still has firmware issues, it locked up on me during the review.
And it had an issue with input overload recovery on the ohms range.
Oh yeah, I didn't like the probes much either.

But the Agilent things can be fixed with firmware mostly, so really, unless it has long term issues that haven't surfaced yet, it's a bit of a no-brainer choice, unless you lust after the Fluke because, well, it's a Fluke.

Dave.

[EEVblog]

Here is my initial review of the U1272A.
* Continuity tester: Very good

If you use the visual alert, yes, very good.
If you need good audible continuity then I'd rate it as barely adequate.
Hopefully they'll fix this with a firmware patch.

Dave.

[ejeffrey]

the High-Z input mode on mV, and of course the "trust" things built up over 20 years in that model.

Out of curiosity, how often do you take advantage of the high-Z mV mode, and for what?  I understand the advantages and I know is relatively easy to implement, but I wonder how often people actually use it.

[EEVblog]

Out of curiosity, how often do you take advantage of the high-Z mV mode, and for what?  I understand the advantages and I know is relatively easy to implement, but I wonder how often people actually use it.

I've used it quite a few times to measure high impedance sensors and things like that.
In general electronics use, it is not an often used feature though.
But as always, when you need it, you need it.

Dave.

[mjlorton]

Here is my initial review of the U1272A.
* Continuity tester: Very good

If you use the visual alert, yes, very good.
If you need good audible continuity then I'd rate it as barely adequate.
Hopefully they'll fix this with a firmware patch.

Dave.

Yes, agreed. Good point about being able to fix many of the issues with firmware...that's a biggie.

[saturation]

Some pointed out elsewhere that the Agilent DMM rebates are still valid until April, 2012.

For the 1272a, that's $100 off the list price, so the final price is between $270-300.  This certainly makes it far more attractive than a Fluke 87V, assuming they are nearly equal in functionality and reliability.

http://www.home.agilent.com/agilent/editorial.jspx?cc=US&lc=eng&ckey=2060152&id=2060152&cmpid=zzfindhhcashback

If Fluke were to reduce the 87V list price to e.g. ~$200, it would be more cost effective and give the Agilent tough competition, except if you absolutely need functions only the 1272a can deliver. 

[mjlorton]

In this video I show a comparison between the smoothing feature (smooth mode) on both the Fluke 87 V and the Agilent U1272A.

In both these multimeters the feature is enabled as a "power-on" option / feature. The Agilent does allow some configuration and enabling of this feature in the setup / menu system.



Cheers,
Martin.

[Adrien]

FYI, my long overdue review of the U1272A is rendering now, so should be up by tomorrow.

Yes, it's hard to fault the Agilent. Bang-for-buck it just trumps the 87-V.
The only places the 87V was superior was audible continuity speed, screen size and contrast, the High-Z input mode on mV, and of course the "trust" things built up over 20 years in that model.
The Agilent still has firmware issues, it locked up on me during the review.
And it had an issue with input overload recovery on the ohms range.
Oh yeah, I didn't like the probes much either.

But the Agilent things can be fixed with firmware mostly, so really, unless it has long term issues that haven't surfaced yet, it's a bit of a no-brainer choice, unless you lust after the Fluke because, well, it's a Fluke.

Indeed Dave,

I have watched your videos, the tear down and the test were the Agilent failed. I was also very happy with your reply to that video that Agilent actally cared about user reviews. They took it seriously and (hopefully) fixed the bugs with firmware v2.0. It was interesting to see that Fluke took much longer to come back with a solution to their problem with the 87V.
The really good thing, I think, about what Agilent is doing today is providing us with a different option when it come to buy a well made DMM. Fluke use to have the monopol now it would be good to see what they do.

If you use the visual alert, yes, very good.
If you need good audible continuity then I'd rate it as barely adequate.
Hopefully they'll fix this with a firmware patch.

Here I kind of agree Dave, in the lab yes we need perhaps a better more audible continuity beeper. but the Agilent guys have come up with a great idea with the Light Alert. Out on the field, especially in busy factories its is a must to have I would say.
The test done earlier on the comparison between the 287, 87V and the U1272A showed that the Agilent was a bit slower but again I would need to confirm that when I get it. Well I reckon that the light is faster than the beeper for the Agilent.

But at the end of the day, if you only trust Fluke you won't buy Agilent. I am against the fact that Fluke should be the only choice and for that I am willing to buy the Agilent. I think that what Agilent is doing today could on the long term drive DMM prices down and pushes manufacturers to release better models more often.


Adrien

[robrenz]

Martin,

Is it possible that even though the smooth annuciator was still showing after your changes, that you might need to shut the meter off and re-enter the smooth mode for the settings to take effect?

[EEVblog]

Some pointed out elsewhere that the Agilent DMM rebates are still valid until April, 2012.

For the 1272a, that's $100 off the list price, so the final price is between $270-300.  This certainly makes it far more attractive than a Fluke 87V, assuming they are nearly equal in functionality and reliability.

They aren't equivalent in functionality of course, the Agilent beats the pants off the Fluke.
In some ways it's not even a fair comparison, as I tend to divide meters into data-logging and non-datalogging, but they are a similar price, and Agilent directly push it against the 87V.

If Fluke were to reduce the 87V list price to e.g. ~$200, it would be more cost effective and give the Agilent tough competition, except if you absolutely need functions only the 1272a can deliver.

That would be nice, but I suspect they won't do that while it's still selling like hot cakes based on it's (deservedly earned) reputation.

Dave.

[EEVblog]

I have watched your videos, the tear down and the test were the Agilent failed. I was also very happy with your reply to that video that Agilent actally cared about user reviews. They took it seriously and (hopefully) fixed the bugs with firmware v2.0. It was interesting to see that Fluke took much longer to come back with a solution to their problem with the 87V.

To be fair, it wasn't the same scenario. Agilent only had to do a firmware patch, whereas Fluke had to very cautiously redesign the board in their best selling multimeter. But yeah, they could have kept us in the loop on what they were doing.

The really good thing, I think, about what Agilent is doing today is providing us with a different option when it come to buy a well made DMM. Fluke use to have the monopol now it would be good to see what they do.

Indeed.

Here I kind of agree Dave, in the lab yes we need perhaps a better more audible continuity beeper. but the Agilent guys have come up with a great idea with the Light Alert. Out on the field, especially in busy factories its is a must to have I would say.
The test done earlier on the comparison between the 287, 87V and the U1272A showed that the Agilent was a bit slower but again I would need to confirm that when I get it. Well I reckon that the light is faster than the beeper for the Agilent.

It very clear that the audible is a fair bit slower than the visual, look at my review video.
Yes, I agree the visual alert is nice.

Dave.

[Adrien]

It very clear that the audible is a fair bit slower than the visual, look at my review video

Is this a new video Dave? Is it posted on EEVBlog's home page?

Adrien

[nanofrog]

The main lead set that came with several of my 1272a and the 1252a were top quality

They're decent, but there was a bit more to it than ergonomics in my case (had some ridges I scrapped to smooth out). But I've never had to do that with Fluke, Pomona, or Probemaster.

...however the accessory lead sets are low quality, Extech style PVC type.

Save the insertion issues, the alligator clips seem quite good, and the SMT Grabbers (U1163A) I ordered separately use 18AWG silicone wire (have the same insertion issue as the alligator clips).

Perhaps they use different wire with those included with the meters or decided to change it at a later date. 

I have some of the Probemaster 8000 series leads and they are indeed very nice (on par with Fluke, IMO).  Note that they have a somewhat unusual grip, which I personally like, but is more rounded than Fluke/Pomona.

I'm fond of how the Softie's feel too. 

[EEVblog]

Is this a new video Dave? Is it posted on EEVBlog's home page?

Yes, just uploaded to Youtube.
Not on the blog site yet.

Dave.

[Adrien]

Hey Dave,

Just watched it. Great work!
Liked the way you presented it and also how you went over the pros and cons.
Definitely has the bang for buck factor, I will probably order mine this week and get the USB cable with it.
Thanks again for that video. The issue with overloading was a good thing to point out. Now unless you have been working for 30 hours straight or are a complete noob I don't think this should happen too often.

Adrien

[EEVblog]

Thanks again for that video. The issue with overloading was a good thing to point out. Now unless you have been working for 30 hours straight or are a complete noob I don't think this should happen too often.

Yeah, not a huge deal I guess, it recovered which is the main point.

Dave.

[IanB]

Thanks again for that video. The issue with overloading was a good thing to point out. Now unless you have been working for 30 hours straight or are a complete noob I don't think this should happen too often.

Yeah, not a huge deal I guess, it recovered which is the main point.

Is it really the case that the Fluke meter would not have behaved similarly? Surely if you pass 240 V through some resistive element it is going to heat up and change it's resistance? How can the resistance test mode measure the voltage drop across the resistor accurately without also measuring the voltage drop across some protection device?

[mjlorton]

Martin,

Is it possible that even though the smooth annuciator was still showing after your changes, that you might need to shut the meter off and re-enter the smooth mode for the settings to take effect?

No...I have just tested that now. When you make a change in the Agilent setup / menu system it seems to go through a "soft boot" to apply the change you make. Other changes that are made in the menu work straight away after saving them.

The Agilent works well in other areas....but not the smooth mode. I assume this is something they should be able to correct with a firmware patch / update.

Cheers,
Martin.

[zaoka]

So far we have some new discovered problems with this model:



- Low capacitance mode does not work
- Smoothing feature does not work
- If  voltage applied to the OHMS range meter is no more accurate for some time
- Randomly locking
- Continuity beeper is not as fast as display indicator
- Possible bar graph speed problems??




Is Agilent aware of these, did anybody report?

[Bored@Work]

- Possible bar graph speed problems??

I don't think this is a problem. A bar graph properly mimicking an analog meter movement should be slow.

[saturation]

I made these comparison graphs comparing many meters together:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/product-reviews-photos-and-discussion/u1272a-update/msg51548/#msg51548

[IanB]

- Smoothing feature does not work

I don't think this is necessarily the case. The smoothing feature is supposed to numerically smooth (filter) the signal. Nothing says it has to slow the display update rate as well.

[Adrien]

- If  voltage applied to the OHMS range meter is no more accurate for some time

What do you mean? Dave measured the a 10K resistor with a battery in series and the meter was dead accurate on smart ohm setting. If you are referring to the time when Dave checked if the meter was idiot proof, as far as I am concerned this is not a problem. Try to plug a "cheap" DMM in the mains on Ohms scale and tell us what happened.
Dave clearly showed that the meter recovered the test.

[ecat]

About the low value capacitance measurement issue, is this thread still valid https://www.eevblog.com/forum/product-reviews-photos-and-discussion/fluke-28ii-and-agilent-u1272a-can-do-pf-cap-measurements/ ?

Summary: Use short test leads and all is fine?

[Adrien]

Well I have ordered my brand new U2172A on E14 this morning. Now I am just checking that the "next day delivery" is actually  true!

[samgab]

Well I have ordered my brand new U2172A on E14 this morning. Now I am just checking that the "next day delivery" is actually  true!

I hope you emailed an individual sales member there for a custom quote and didn't just pay RRP...

[samgab]

Well I have ordered my brand new U2172A on E14 this morning. Now I am just checking that the "next day delivery" is actually  true!

Oh, and also make sure you get the free bluetooth adapter with the promo they are running ATM (worth >NZD$100):
http://www.home.agilent.com/agilent/editorial.jspx?ckey=2147714&id=2147714&nid=-34618.991693.00&lc=eng&cc=NZ

[Adrien]

h, and also make sure you get the free bluetooth adapter with the promo they are running ATM (worth >NZD$100):

You are the man sambag, I am about to ring E14 as soon as they open! Cheers for that. Love the spirit!

[cybergibbons]

Spoken to Farnell UK and Agilent UK this afternoon to see if they will budge on the UK £289 ex VAT price... they won't. It's still cheaper than the Fluke though.

[Adrien]

Spoken to E14 just now, they don't now anything about the Promotion. Are they official Agilent resellers?
I might cancel my order, I'm not too sure about what to do tbh.

[samgab]

Spoken to E14 just now, they don't now anything about the Promotion. Are they official Agilent resellers?
I might cancel my order, I'm not too sure about what to do tbh.

Yeah, that is NOT on... They are a new (recent) official Agilent dealer, and they SHOULD know about the promo that Agilent is running in NZ, among other countries. I would cancel the order, and then email someone there for a quote (<RRP), making sure you quote that promo code for the free BT adapter, and include a link to the page for the promo. Agilent suppliers should make sure their dealers/retailers are aware of all running promos for their products... They should be advertising it on the front page of their website, I'm sure it would snag them a few sales... I'm even considering getting one, because I could really use the logging function a lot.

[samgab]

Here is the NZ Agilent page for the U1272A:
http://www.home.agilent.com/agilent/product.jspx?nid=-34618.956189.00&cc=NZ&lc=eng

Note that it has the link to the free BT adapter in the green "special offers" box in the top right of the page.

You can request a custom quote on that page too.
remember to quote the special deal #5.865.

And you can request a custom quote from E14 here:
http://nz.element14.com/jsp/bespoke/bespoke2.jsp?bespokepage=e14/en_NZ/custsrv/quotationreq.jsp&ICID=ap-equote-rb

Hopefully you can get a better price than NZD$595 AND the free adapter.

[Adrien]

I would cancel the order, and then email someone there for a quote (<RRP

I have indeed canceled my order this morning. The lady on the phone had no idea and couldn't confirm that the Agilent special offers would work with E14 which was odd if they are an official reseller.

I have then contacted Agilent agent in NZ "RF Test Solutions Ltd" which didn't really know about the offer. On the phone I have been told that the meter was cheaper (by $10) than on E14. I emailed them requesting a quote for the U1272A, the USB cable U1173A and mentioning he promo code for the U1177A. So far I haven't heard back from them. I guess it must be Friday

And you can request a custom quote from E14 here:

I have just tried E14 again and request a quote.
And have also requested a quote from your link on the agilent website.

Now lets see what happens!

[samgab]

I would cancel the order, and then email someone there for a quote (<RRP

I have indeed canceled my order this morning. The lady on the phone had no idea and couldn't confirm that the Agilent special offers would work with E14 which was odd if they are an official reseller.

I have then contacted Agilent agent in NZ "RF Test Solutions Ltd" which didn't really know about the offer. On the phone I have been told that the meter was cheaper (by $10) than on E14. I emailed them requesting a quote for the U1272A, the USB cable U1173A and mentioning he promo code for the U1177A. So far I haven't heard back from them. I guess it must be Friday

And you can request a custom quote from E14 here:

I have just tried E14 again and request a quote.
And have also requested a quote from your link on the agilent website.

Now lets see what happens!

I've done the same thing. I've emailed both E14 (NZ) and RFTS (NZ) for a custom quote, referencing the promo in both.
I haven't heard back from either.
Maybe we can compare notes in a PM to see if they are consistent.
I'm doing it as a private purchase, so no special trade discounts etc.
RS components don't have the new range of Agilent meters showing on their website, but I have a contact there who has given me good prices on several items, such as the 87V and the FX888, so I might email him too to see if they can get it in and do the promo, to compare what price he comes up with. He (RS) did better than E14 when I was asking for prices on the 87V a few Months back.

PS: RE your "lady on the phone" experience, that really annoys me. Nothing bugs me more than ignorance... getting some pleb on the phone who has no idea what they are talking about. Mind you, it's probably more Agilent NZ's fault, for not ensuring that their dealers are aware of running promos. But they've probably emailed management at the dealers about it, and either it's sitting in someone's inbox, or they disseminated it to staff who didn't bother to read it. I don't know, but that's how it used to go when I was in retail...

[Adrien]

Maybe we can compare notes in a PM to see if they are consistent.
I'm doing it as a private purchase, so no special trade discounts etc

Sounds like a plan, I am also doing it privately for the warranty mainly. So if anything goes wrong it is all under my name.
Let me know what you mate says at RS perhaps he could get a better deal if he had to get 2 of these meters?

[samgab]

Maybe we can compare notes in a PM to see if they are consistent.
I'm doing it as a private purchase, so no special trade discounts etc

Sounds like a plan, I am also doing it privately for the warranty mainly. So if anything goes wrong it is all under my name.
Let me know what you mate says at RS perhaps he could get a better deal if he had to get 2 of these meters?

Well, I got a quote back from E14, and clearly they are not interested in getting the sale. They quoted the same price as RRP, no change, and made no mention of the promo which I had specifically asked about in the comment field. I know there is some wiggle room in there... I'm not expecting a big discount, just a few dollars perhaps, but seriously, they've made no effort whatsoever, and not paid any attention to what I actually asked them. They lose.

PS, I've emailed Dee at RS NZ, but not until this evening, so I don't expect a reply before Monday.

[Adrien]

Well, I got a quote back from E14, and clearly they are not interested in getting the sale. They quoted the same price as RRP, no change, and made no mention of the promo which I had specifically asked about in the comment field. I know there is some wiggle room in there... I'm not expecting a big discount, just a few dollars perhaps, but seriously, they've made no effort whatsoever, and not paid any attention to what I actually asked them. They lose.

Same here. Exactly the same. I mentioned the promotion with the code and they didn't mention anything back. I won't be buying it from them that's for sure

[Adrien]

Just a little update, so far I haven't received any quotes from RF Test Solutions Ltd

[samgab]

Just a little update, so far I haven't received any quotes from RF Test Solutions Ltd

Neither have I... and RS replied that they don't stock it. Slack.

[Adrien]

Neither have I... and RS replied that they don't stock it. Slack.

I have emailed the person that was in contact with me from RF Test Solutions
This is what they have to say:

"I have passed your inquiry to our Sales Manager to respond. My apologise for the delay. We had a price change at the end of February and our March prices have not come through yet"

So I guess we just have to wait. Hopefully the price is going to be lower than before!

[samgab]

Neither have I... and RS replied that they don't stock it. Slack.

I have emailed the person that was in contact with me from RF Test Solutions
This is what they have to say:

"I have passed your inquiry to our Sales Manager to respond. My apologise for the delay. We had a price change at the end of February and our March prices have not come through yet"

So I guess we just have to wait. Hopefully the price is going to be lower than before!

Yeah, hopefully they don't put the price up to counter the freebie BT connector!

[Adrien]

I just got an email from them specifying the promo code with a link to their website. The only problem is the lead time. I think I will still order it from them as they have been the best to deal with and they are a bit cheaper than E14

http://www.testers.co.nz/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=304_20&products_id=1292

[rounsmith]

30 euro meters calibrated by agilent , agilent meters calibrated by fluke , fluke calibrated from Chuke.


See what i did there?

[andyg]

I'm thinking of buying this model for work. The promo sounds good.

So to the people that own one, how is the latest firmware updates going? Has the known issues been fixed or is it still locking up and behaving strangely regularly?

Thanks.

[T4P]

30 euro meters calibrated by agilent , agilent meters calibrated by fluke , fluke calibrated from Chuke.


See what i did there?

[zaoka]

Can somebody compare capacitance readings with Fluke or good LCR meter and U1272A, values: 10uF, 100uF, 1000uF, 2200uF and 3300uF?

I am always getting 5-6% lower reading even on new capacitors from different brands on my U1272A...

[T4P]

Can somebody compare capacitance readings with Fluke or good LCR meter and U1272A, values: 10uF, 100uF, 1000uF, 2200uF and 3300uF?

I am always getting 5-6% lower reading even on new capacitors from different brands on my U1272A...

It's never so accurate , you will never know what sort of measurement algorithm agilent is using unless they did say.

[alm]

What is the tolerance of these new caps? I would be very surprised if you found affordable 2200uF caps with less than 5% tolerance, especially if you factor in the temperature coefficient. Add to this the frequency dependence: I would not be surprised to see these kinds of differences between measurements at 100 Hz and 10 kHz of electrolytic caps, and I think this test is quite useless to determine the accuracy of the cap function.

I don't really see the point of measuring capacitance down to the sub-1% accuracy if you can't measure at your frequency and DC bias voltage of interest. It gives you a number which has no relation to your circuit, although it has three significant digits of accuracy. Looks good in incoming inspection reports I guess.

[Construct]

For those in the US and Canada:

Agilent currently has a promotion to receive a free U1272A with purchase of an E3600 series power supply:

http://www.home.agilent.com/agilent/editorial.jspx?cc=US&lc=eng&ckey=2133877&nid=-35690.384001.02&id=2133877

Not a bad deal at all if you're in the market for both a multimeter and a quality linear power supply.

[bsgd]

I just bought a U1273A and I gotta admit: The screen is just so amazing!!!
I guess I will sell my TV cause now I cant stop staring at my DMMs screen. 

Seriously, I have way too many multimeters (mostly Flukes) but OLED screens are great for overnight work.  I didnt need a new multimeter at all but I couldnt pass this nice shiny screen.

For all those looking at the U1272A, the U1273A might also be a good option. Just note that the OLED screen will quickly drain the batteries.

[Construct]

... Just note that the OLED screen will quickly drain the batteries.

I wondered about that. Just how big of a difference is it?

[T4P]

... Just note that the OLED screen will quickly drain the batteries.

I wondered about that. Just how big of a difference is it?

In the case of the U1253 the difference between the Oled version and the LCD version , it's a hell lot different

[bsgd]

... Just note that the OLED screen will quickly drain the batteries.

I wondered about that. Just how big of a difference is it?

Well, I only have it for a few days and havent used it much. I'll measure the current and post back.

[Construct]

I just received my U1272A. Unfortunately, it's DOA.

The unit turns on, and it displays the 'Agilent U1272' splash screen, but it never does anything past that. I called Agilent, and the guy on the phone was very apologetic but said I had to exchange it through my vendor. At this rate, I'll have a working unit in a few weeks. Frustrating. I hope I don't have to pay return shipping on top of all of this.

[alm]

Getting a DOA unit sucks. Exchanging by the distributor is usually the faster and superior option, however. The alternative would be to have it shipped to Agilent's service center, where they would either repair it or replace it with a refurbished unit. This process can easily take at least a few weeks. The distributor should give you another brand new unit, let's hope it's not DOA .

[Wartex]

I just got an email from them specifying the promo code with a link to their website. The only problem is the lead time. I think I will still order it from them as they have been the best to deal with and they are a bit cheaper than E14

http://www.testers.co.nz/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=304_20&products_id=1292

$583  holy fucking shit.

I bought mine for $329 and got a rebate cheque for $100 yesterday.

[bsgd]

I just measured the current for my U1273A and its 27mA with brightness set to medium, while measuring AC Volts.
Not too bad. A set of 800mAH rechargeables shoud give me 30 hours, which is adequate for me.

[zaoka]

New U1273A with Gossen MEtrawatt