Multimeters with (Color) Graphic Display - Summary & Comparison

[Markus2801A]

Hello!

I try to do some comparison and listing of all available Multimeters with (Color) Graphic Display.
It should be able to show you more than only numeric Values or fixed (in LCD placed, shaped electrodes) signs, so I mean a Display which is able to change its Content absolutely freely like your Smartphone does, and maybe future Firmware Updates will offer additional functionality and UI-Updates etc.
Maybe we can work together and create a list and share our experience and opinions about those Meters.
Its because I plan to buy the new Version of the Metric MTX 3293-BT which will be released soon in 2019 (see below)

As far I  found out, the following companies offer Multimeters with graphical color Display. Some of them seem to be rebranded types, so every information regarding this would be nice!
Please feel free to comment and complete the list! It would also be nice to know when those meters were released? Some of them seem to be very pricey some a bargain? but are they useful, or china crap?

Brand	Type	Price (18.04.2019) incl. TAX	Comment
Fluke	287 & 289	575€	no color Display but seems to be the one of the Top Player!
Metrix (Chauvin Arnoux)	MTX 3290-3293 (BT)	740€	high quality Top DMM! still available but will be replaced by new Type called C.A. 5292 & 5293 in appprox. 1 year
Chauvin Arnoux	C. A. 5292-5293 (BT)	t.b.a. 2019	release DATE t.b.a.already listed in FR 2019 Catalogue (according to C.A. Austria on 23.04.19 Release will be delayed 1 year) - more Memory but what else?
ExTech	GX900	545€	pricey? How does it compare to Uni-T and CEM? Maybe higher priced but same hardware like CEM Uni-T and friends?
C.E.M.	DT-9987	260€	Bargain? Or China Crap?
C.E.M.	DT-9989	399€	with Oscilloscope functionality
C.E.M.	DT-989	178€	same as PeakTech 3440
RS Pro	HS608 MeterScope	415€	looks like rebranded CEM DT-9989
PeakTech	3440	182€	same as CEM DT-989
Uni-T (UniTrend)	UT181A	260€	bargain? or china crap? Looks almost like CEM DT-9987
Hantek	2000 Series	169€ - 199€	listed under "Handheld Oscilloscope" with DMM functionality? CRAP?

Only Fluke and Chauvin Arnoux offer Firmware updates for their Top Tiers of Multimeters. Unfortunately Fluke doesn't offer one with color Display, but I think the 289 is one of the best DMM you can buy. So lets start the discussion :-)


The Idea is also regarding the question, do your really need today an extra Bench-Top Device? Handheld High-End like Fluke and Matrix/Chauvin Arnoux seem to be more versatile!? What do you think?


Markus from Austria!

[TurboTom]

Hi Markus -

welcome to the forum! You can also add the CEM DT-989 (aka Peaktech 3440, Southwire and several others) to your list. This is a relatively compact meter and once in a while, it's available at a bargain or with a package of additional items. I think I got mine for round about 170€ including a pouch of test leads, thermocouples, thermocouple adapters, test clips and what not. Mike('s Electric Stuff) published anice review on one of the rebrands:



 I'ld stay away from OLED multimeters since there's quite some complaints of the screens fading even without being intensely used, I've experienced one such case myself.
Cheers,
Thomas

[Markus2801A]

Thanks! Im working to create a better overview as table layout, maybe also with images, but im not so familiar with creating nice looking postings (HTML Code etc)
I will update my initial post soon ;-)

Yes i forgot Peaktech and the cheaper CEM with little smaller display, i will add them too!

Any ideas why other companies didn't release color Multimeters til yet?

[shakalnokturn]

Comparing the specs and ADC solutions used should be interesting too.
I'd be surprised if the upcoming C.A. had much different from the former MTX329x.

I'd avoid the Extech, that's going to be a clone of one of the others sold for around 100-150€ extra.

The other question is there any real point in having a colour LCD DMM other than to suck the Füçk out of the power source? (4 chan DSO no problem, but graphical DMM...?)
Actually I don't see much point in a graphical DMM unless it can capture and display glitches. I do see the point in a logging DMM having the possibility to graph the logs. If it must have a colour LCD I'd request that at least the screen could be disabled in logging mode.

[Markus2801A]

@shakalnokturn: you're absolutely right!
I think a color display makes it much more readable and if displaying a bunch of values it might be helpful in distinguishing between those values and meanings?

Thanks for the hint with the EXTECH, I will update the list ASAP :-)
Seems there is a bunch of Color Display DMM which use almost the same Hardware in different colored housings! :-) But why?

[TurboTom]

Readability of the TFT cannot be compared to standard segment (TN) LCDs, even if a backlight is used. Current consumption is considerable, that's true, but as a consequence, most of these meters come factory equipped with a rechargable battery (LiIon / LiPo4 chemistry on the recent ones) and a charger. Of course, it's a little more troublesome to always make sure the battery is charged, but compared to some of the OLED meters with primary batteries or crappy 9V block NiMHs, they are a big improvement. If you've got to work in areas with low ambient lighting and have to read the meter at awkward, varying angles, or you want to record a video clip of the screen, they are really worth a thought. Moreover, the TFTs are quite fast though this may not be of much importance in case of a multimeter.

Cheers.

[2N3055]

I have MTX3293. As far as specs for the new one goes, it seems it has more memory for logging and maybe a bit different graphic display. All else seems the same.

Meter is great, pleasure to work with. You can use it while charging.
VA mode works very well. It is great to use on the desk.
I didn't try to use it outside in direct sunlight, but I think my Brymen 869S works better for that.

Graphic display in interactive mode ended up not being very useful. It works well with logged data.
I wish secondary measurements font would be a bit larger, there is space on screen.

All in all good meter.

[joeqsmith]

Welcome to the site.  Your color choice of yellow on white make it hard to read.   I have a UT181A and made a review for it.  It has some nice features but isn't very robust.

https://youtu.be/PjNXbKlr3MI

[Markus2801A]

Good Morning!

Yes it seems C.A. changed color to their corporate identity "yellow" and added more Memory, hope we find out about further improvements. see image below (FR-Catalogue)

I wanted to buy myself a second DMM Device and considered a Bench-Top Model but I think the High End Handheld Devices today offer great accuracy and also portability and are not tied to power grid :-)
Also - as I am a teacher - I consider take them into school to show some basic measurements to my students (its because unfortunately you don't get state of the art equipment from school, what a pity!)

[2N3055]

Good Morning!

Yes it seems C.A. changed color to their corporate identity "yellow" and added more Memory, hope we find out about further improvements. see image below (FR-Catalogue)

I wanted to buy myself a second DMM Device and considered a Bench-Top Model but I think the High End Handheld Devices today offer great accuracy and also portability and are not tied to power grid :-)
Also - as I am a teacher - I consider take them into school to show some basic measurements to my students (its because unfortunately you don't get state of the art equipment from school, what a pity!)

Well, for teaching you'll gona love SPEC mode.
It is great for teaching measurements uncertainties and to get intuitive feeling  that your measurement is not one absolute correct number but a set of possible values "somewhere about here"

[windsmurf]

...Yes it seems C.A. changed color to their corporate identity "yellow" and added more Memory, hope we find out about further improvements. see image below (FR-Catalogue)...

Oh that means it violates Fluke's trademark and won't be allowed in the U.S. ...

[shakalnokturn]

Colour scheme violation? (This sounds like segregation...) How ridiculous can I.P. get? Trademarking a colour scheme is a good enough reason for me to not give Fluke any cash.

Anyway C.A. should have stuck to the MTX model's blue, unless they were already in trouble with Tektronix over using blue...

[David Hess]

Do not forget battery type and life.  Display life would be nice but it is not practical to verify.

[Markus2801A]

Well, for teaching you'll gona love SPEC mode.
It is great for teaching measurements uncertainties and to get intuitive feeling  that your measurement is not one absolute correct number but a set of possible values "somewhere about here"

Absolut, this is one of the reasons I will buy the Metrix or the new C.A. Type. At the moment Iàm waiting for the release because my dealer in Austria said I should wait for the new type!

I like Colors, yes maybe it would have been better to stick to blue than making them kind of yellow which may interferes with fluke. But the design of the C.A./Metrix is unique. regardless which color the case is.

Off-Topic Question:
Does anyone know how to make good looking tables here with BBCode? Here, it seems to don't support the new possiblitities which are implemented in newer versions of BBCode.

[2N3055]

Do not forget battery type and life.  Display life would be nice but it is not practical to verify.

It runs 4xAA size. It comes with NiMH batteries and power brick, it charges batteries in meter and can work plugged in.. It also comes with IR USB cable and has nice enough PC software. It suports Modbus and SCPI.
It also has 2 diode test modes: normal (3.5V /500uA) and zener mode (28V/10mA)
It is a well featured meter, and can replace entry level benchtop instruments.

[joeqsmith]

I am not understanding why the old Fluke 289 is included when it's not color.  Maybe change the name of from Multimeters with Color Graphic Display - Summary & Comparison  to just Multimeters -  Summary & Comparison.   Seems like there is a list for this. 

A person asked me about looking at the AM MTX 3283BT.  The conversation is attached.  I never did hear any more about it and wonder if they damaged their meter.  It really wouldn't surprise me and if that was all it took to damage one, I see no reason to dig into it further.   Still,  I would like to see some high resolution pictures of the internals.

I picked up one of UNI-T's Bluetooth adapters for the UT181A.  While they don't offer a Windows based program, with a sniffer and the help of a few members here I was able to get it working with LabView.   A couple of changes to this meter and it could be really nice for for what I would use it for and if they offer an improved version, I will pick one up.  Here you can see the BLE interface in operation. 
https://youtu.be/e_YzwO62feQ?t=1205

[Markus2801A]

I included the Fluke because it is said its one of the best DMM out there. It is almost capable of replacing many Bench-Top Devices as far as I have read reviews etc. about it.

In my opinion, you don't need a bench top device if you own one of the high accuracy DMM like Metrix (Chauvin Arnoux) or Fluke. In least I would rely on those devices but im not sure if the other like Uni-T 181A or CEM are also as exact as the higher priced Fluke 287/289 Series are. The price is a bargain for approx 260€ you get CEM 9987 or Uni-T 181A with color Display and their Specs are impressive for this Price range, but are they true?

[2N3055]

I don't own UT-181.
I do have UT-70C, and truth is, when did some checks against calibrated 6.5 digit meter, it read dead on. To last digit. Also, it had VERY fast peak detect mode, very flat bandwidth  on AC mode, exceeding 200kHz for -3dB point.
But it is bad quality of materials and workmanship. Not very much used meter had input banana sockets falling proper contact after maybe 6 months. I managed to find thin 4mm internal dia tubes and replaced soft metal inserts. It working OK now.
Also there is a trimpot inside for basic trim of voltage reference.
Pot started to be noisy at one time, I discovered it had too much of the trimming range. Replaced with combination of two fixed resistors and better quality 10-turn pot. After adjusting, again very accurate in all other ranges. It still is after few years.

I don't use it anymore, it is delegated to my son for measuring simple stuff on the desk and in the car..
I didn't try it myself, but I believe it would be damaged easy by Joe Q Smith, and it is not used for anything that would have enough energy to make it dangerous.

And that seems to be the story of UNI-T. Basically, instruments that could have been great, but not executed quite right.
Good for the money, but not great.

[joeqsmith]

I included the Fluke because it is said its one of the best DMM out there. It is almost capable of replacing many Bench-Top Devices as far as I have read reviews etc. about it.

In my opinion, you don't need a bench top device if you own one of the high accuracy DMM like Metrix (Chauvin Arnoux) or Fluke. In least I would rely on those devices but im not sure if the other like Uni-T 181A or CEM are also as exact as the higher priced Fluke 287/289 Series are. The price is a bargain for approx 260€ you get CEM 9987 or Uni-T 181A with color Display and their Specs are impressive for this Price range, but are they true?

I understand now that color isn't a metric for your thread.   I have seen many posts about the Fluke 87V being the gold standard of handheld meters but rare I see anything on the 289.   

Hard to compare any handheld meter's performance against an unknown bench meter.   Obviously there is a need for very high end equipment.  Even at home, once in a while my old HP 34401A falls short.  I doub't we will see a handheld match the performance of the HP3458A any time soon.    I will say that I do find I use my Brymen BM869s for most of my home electronics projects now but that's not much of a test case.

Of the meters I have looked at, the one that comes closest to matching my bench meter is the Gossen Ultra, however, as it is sold is not very impressive. 

[joeqsmith]

I don't own UT-181.
I do have UT-70C, and truth is, when did some checks against calibrated 6.5 digit meter, it read dead on. To last digit. Also, it had VERY fast peak detect mode, very flat bandwidth  on AC mode, exceeding 200kHz for -3dB point.
But it is bad quality of materials and workmanship. Not very much used meter had input banana sockets falling proper contact after maybe 6 months. I managed to find thin 4mm internal dia tubes and replaced soft metal inserts. It working OK now.
Also there is a trimpot inside for basic trim of voltage reference.
Pot started to be noisy at one time, I discovered it had too much of the trimming range. Replaced with combination of two fixed resistors and better quality 10-turn pot. After adjusting, again very accurate in all other ranges. It still is after few years.

I don't use it anymore, it is delegated to my son for measuring simple stuff on the desk and in the car..
I didn't try it myself, but I believe it would be damaged easy by Joe Q Smith, and it is not used for anything that would have enough energy to make it dangerous.

And that seems to be the story of UNI-T. Basically, instruments that could have been great, but not executed quite right.
Good for the money, but not great.

I have similar thoughts about the UT181A.  I have no problem with the electronics components they used.  My concerns about the materials are mostly mechanical.   I don't remember the 181A having any mechanical trimmers.  Mine is coming up on three years old and doesn't appear to have drifted much at all.   It was also the most thermally stable handheld meter I have looked at out of the box.   Like the Brymen BM869s, I like that it supports two K-type sensors.   

From the robustness side of things, there are few brands I would consider and UNI-T has not been in the mix.  The UT181A IMO is a very big step in the right direction.  IMO the design could be right there with the best of them with a little better layout.   

[Markus2801A]

@joeqsmith: Fluke 87V is great but it doesn't came with graphing and logging capabilities.
Additional Info added: I tried to say its doesn't have a Full Graph Display, it can only display fixed numeric Values and some additional symbols, I'm sorry

As far as I know, Fluke seems to be one of the view Companies who make really good DMM not only in terms of technical features, but also in terms of production quality.
An successor, maybe with new (color) Display and built in Bluetooth etc. of the 287/289 Series would be very interesting. Any Ideas when Fluke will update their Product ranges?

[joeqsmith]

@joeqsmith: Fluke 87V is great but it doesn't came with graphing and logging capabilities.

As far as I know, Fluke seems to be one of the view Companies who make really good DMM not only in terms of technical features, but also in terms of production quality.
An successor, maybe with new (color) Display and built in Bluetooth etc. of the 287/289 Series would be very interesting. Any Ideas when Fluke will update their Product ranges?

I'm a bit slow but believe I now understand.  You really just want to discuss meters with a graphing feature.   If you were only interested in logging, many meters will fit, including Dave's rebranded UEI 121GW. 

Normally I will use a PC if I want to graph or post process the data from one of these handheld meters anyway.  I do like having a live interface but just having a way to get the data out after the fact is good enough in most cases I come across.     IMO, the 289's is just too slow to be of use.  Zooming, panning... it's just too slow.  The UT181A is much better but still after using a PC for so many years to collect and plot data, the bar is set pretty high.   

I have an old Fluke 97 scope meter.  It's nice if you need a rugged, protable, 50MHz scope.  Personally I have more use for this than a graphing meter.   

[joeqsmith]

There are a lot of them that you may want to consider then...

https://www.testproductsintl.com/digital-multimeters-dmms/440-true-rms-digital-multimeter/
https://www.valuetronics.com/product/2512-bk-precision-scopemeter-new
https://www.valuetronics.com/product/2516-bk-precision-scopemeter-new
https://www.amazon.com/Siglent-SHS806-Oscilloscope-2-Channel-Multimeter/dp/B00GQNNQTM/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=scopemeter&qid=1555700579&s=gateway&sr=8-4
https://www.amazon.com/HDS1021M-N-Oscilloscope-Multimeter-replay%E3%80%81FFT-Functions/dp/B0170N0YA0/ref=sr_1_7?keywords=scopemeter&qid=1555700639&s=gateway&sr=8-7

***
https://www.amazon.com/Oscilloscope-Multimeter-LIUMY-Professional-Scopemeter/dp/B071F1H3PG/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=graphing+meter&qid=1555702390&s=gateway&sr=8-4
https://www.amazon.com/all-sun-Handheld-Oscilloscope-Screen-Channel/dp/B01N65NXZR/ref=sr_1_11?keywords=graphing+meter&qid=1555702572&s=gateway&sr=8-11
https://www.amazon.com/Signstek-Handheld-Scopemeter-Oscilloscope-Multimeter/dp/B016DE1VXG/ref=sr_1_7?keywords=graphing+meter&qid=1555702720&s=gateway&sr=8-7
https://www.amazon.com/Oscilloscope-Waveform-Generator-Handheld-Multimeter/dp/B07KYJZJNZ/ref=sr_1_23?keywords=scopemeter&qid=1555702865&s=gateway&sr=8-23

[Markus2801A]

Oh im sorry, I Apologize when I have expressed my self wrong!

I did not necessarily mean a display which is able to represent a graph, but several information at once.
So I meant a kind of graphic display versus those multimeters that just have a numeric display and some other fixed signs due to their construction types (LCD with shaped electrodes).

Sorry for my translation issues, its my fault!

[2N3055]

I agree with Joe. One thing that I don+t use much on MTX 3293 is graphing on meter.

It has PC interface and quite nice PC app, so I record with meter and download in PC, or grab directly to PC.
I also do that with Brymens . BM869S while connected, or BM525 that has loging, log in field and connect, download and analyze.
I find little screens not very good for reviewing logged data.
That being said, if you do look at graphical data on  MTX 3293 it is a bit better than Fluke289. 
But UT-181 is much better than both in graphing mode..

[Magnum]

I have a MTX 3292 and I really love it. IMHO you can forget the graphing, on the 3292 it is not so easy to zoom in, so there are not many occasions where you can really use it.
But what I like with the graphic display is the ability to show more information.
I first looked at the Fluke, but it takes ages to startup. The Metrix is instant on, so you can use it immediately. It also has the last measurement function enabled when powering on.
The only drawback: The beeper could be a bit louder (at least for me), and even when it is switched off it eats batteries. So from time to time you have to load it.

[2N3055]

I have a MTX 3292 and I really love it. IMHO you can forget the graphing, on the 3292 it is not so easy to zoom in, so there are not many occasions where you can really use it.
But what I like with the graphic display is the ability to show more information.
I first looked at the Fluke, but it takes ages to startup. The Metrix is instant on, so you can use it immediately. It also has the last measurement function enabled when powering on.
The only drawback: The beeper could be a bit louder (at least for me), and even when it is switched off it eats batteries. So from time to time you have to load it.

That pretty much is what I think.
Batteries are NiMH, so they self discharge..

[Magnum]

Batteries are NiMH, so they self discharge..

That might be an explanation. I was thinking it is because it starts so quick, that they just put it in a sleep mode with a very low power consumption.

[joeqsmith]

With both of your owning them, are the Metrix difficult to disassemble?  Does it void the warranty if they are taken apart?   I am just surprised I have never seen any pictures posted of their internals.   

For the price, I would expect these to be bullet proof.  Imagine if all we saw was a single PTC like the ANENGs..  

[2N3055]

Batteries are NiMH, so they self discharge..

That might be an explanation. I was thinking it is because it starts so quick, that they just put it in a sleep mode with a very low power consumption.

Well it might be drawing current, but I know all my NiMH cells have pronounced self-discharge. So. it is probably combination of both..

[2N3055]

With both of your owning them, are the Metrix difficult to disassemble?  Does it void the warranty if they are taken apart?   I am just surprised I have never seen any pictures posted of their internals.   

For the price, I would expect these to be bullet proof.  Imagine if all we saw was a single PTC like the ANENGs..

There is a French gentleman opening one ..

[joeqsmith]

Good find.  I didn't see any sign of GDTs or MOVs for the primary clamp.  Perhaps they are on the backside.   They used a good sized PTC and what I would assume is some specialized resistor in series with it.   

All sorts of mechanical relays.   Perhaps these have an internal shield.   If you hold a magnet next to the meter, does it change the state of the relays like the Gossen?   Worse, can you get the meter into a state where it will not display voltage with just a magnet?   

[2N3055]

Good find.  I didn't see any sign of GDTs or MOVs for the primary clamp.  Perhaps they are on the backside.   They used a good sized PTC and what I would assume is some specialized resistor in series with it.   

All sorts of mechanical relays.   Perhaps these have an internal shield.   If you hold a magnet next to the meter, does it change the state of the relays like the Gossen?   Worse, can you get the meter into a state where it will not display voltage with just a magnet?

I'll take a look if I have one of those HDD magnets to try.. Unfortunately, I don't have that mighty degausser of yours.

I presume there is a good chance they could be made to switch. Relays are close to edge, you could get close to them from outside the box..

[joeqsmith]

Good find.  I didn't see any sign of GDTs or MOVs for the primary clamp.  Perhaps they are on the backside.   They used a good sized PTC and what I would assume is some specialized resistor in series with it.   

All sorts of mechanical relays.   Perhaps these have an internal shield.   If you hold a magnet next to the meter, does it change the state of the relays like the Gossen?   Worse, can you get the meter into a state where it will not display voltage with just a magnet?

I'll take a look if I have one of those HDD magnets to try.. Unfortunately, I don't have that mighty degausser of yours.

I presume there is a good chance they could be made to switch. Relays are close to edge, you could get close to them from outside the box..

That Gossen could easily be switched from outside the box.  IMO, IEC is behind the times to let this sort of thing be allowed in an industrial handheld meter.   Then again, I am surprised Gossen would design a meter like this.     

https://youtu.be/COuCsWDoI9E?list=PLZSS2ajxhiQBTCU8Mq_i9jidT024A0dV6

[sotos]

Can you name separately each datalogging save? in the UT181A.  Fluke 289 cannot save a name as you wish, it saves them generally and when trying to get it back you must remember how it was saved.

[Markus2801A]

Batteries are NiMH, so they self discharge..

But as you can see in the disassembly video, the batteries are AA-Cells you should be able to replace them with better ones.
Don't know why C.A. decided to use Ni-MH Batteries even in the newest upcoming release C.A. 5292 and C.A. 5293

[2N3055]

Batteries are NiMH, so they self discharge..

But as you can see in the disassembly video, the batteries are AA-Cells you should be able to replace them with better ones.
Don't know why C.A. decided to use Ni-MH Batteries even in the newest upcoming release C.A. 5292 and C.A. 5293

It is not that bad if you use the meter on regular basis. If you use meter only occasionally, for instance you keep the meter in the box for few months, and then you expect it to have full bat, then you will not be happy. In which case maybe you should consider different meter.

[Kean]

Good find.  I didn't see any sign of GDTs or MOVs for the primary clamp.  Perhaps they are on the backside.   They used a good sized PTC and what I would assume is some specialized resistor in series with it.   

There is an additional internal photo of the MTX3293 here that seems to show some further protection devices under a plastic cover
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/metrix-mtx3293-quick-teardown/

[joeqsmith]

There is an additional internal photo of the MTX3293 here that seems to show some further protection devices under a plastic cover
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/metrix-mtx3293-quick-teardown/

I don't see very well.  Could you please point out these additional protection devices.   No doubt there will be some sort of high speed clamps in various sections. 

Without the larger parts in both legs,  I can't see this thing holding up very well in the tests I run.  The tape holding the plastic cover down will be fuel for the fire.    It looks like ferrite under the pink heat shrink on the large ribbon.  Can anyone confirm?   

[joeqsmith]

Can you name separately each datalogging save? in the UT181A.  Fluke 289 cannot save a name as you wish, it saves them generally and when trying to get it back you must remember how it was saved.

You may be interested in page 58 of the manual.  I have attached this page in case you are blocked from downloading it in your country.   

[joeqsmith]

I added my votes to your poll.   Based on all the tests I have ran Brymen and Fluke get a vote.   I only looked at one each from HIOKI & Gossen.  Both held up well.  The Gossen was able to handle higher levels and is also the highest resolution meter I have looked at.   However it is plagued with problems,  so the third vote goes to HIOKI.   The Keysight meter with it's glass filled detent spring gets zero votes.  It wasn't very robust anyway. 

One day UNI-T will rise up and make the ultimate UT181B..... 

[Kean]

I don't see very well.  Could you please point out these additional protection devices.   No doubt there will be some sort of high speed clamps in various sections. 

I was referring to the 3rd photo in the 2nd post, and the blue SMD parts under the plastic shield which I thought may have been MOVs.  But looking at the layout again now, I think these are just a HV resistor divider for the V input jack?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/metrix-mtx3293-quick-teardown/?action=dlattach;attach=284434;image

Without the larger parts in both legs,  I can't see this thing holding up very well in the tests I run.  The tape holding the plastic cover down will be fuel for the fire.    It looks like ferrite under the pink heat shrink on the large ribbon.  Can anyone confirm?

Also interesting is that the input jacks, input protection resistor, and PTC (which are all through hole), don't appear to use through hole solder joints.  The board is well secured in the plastic frame with screws, but this would still concern me regarding reliability in field use (and your vibration tests).

[sotos]

Can you name separately each datalogging save? in the UT181A.  Fluke 289 cannot save a name as you wish, it saves them generally and when trying to get it back you must remember how it was saved.

You may be interested in page 58 of the manual.  I have attached this page in case you are blocked from downloading it in your country.

Thank you.

[joeqsmith]

I don't see very well.  Could you please point out these additional protection devices.   No doubt there will be some sort of high speed clamps in various sections. 

I was referring to the 3rd photo in the 2nd post, and the blue SMD parts under the plastic shield which I thought may have been MOVs.  But looking at the layout again now, I think these are just a HV resistor divider for the V input jack?

Yes, I believe that these are resistors and not MOVs.  I assume the one PTC and axial resistor are for the current source and mv input.  So they may have just a basic low voltage clamp.  However, these parts are always connected to the input so the low voltage clamp needs to be switched out.  This means that the switch, relays, what ever is breaking that   connection needs to handle the voltage off my generator for the meter to survive.  Good luck with that!!! 

The one thing that may save it is if it breaks down (unintentionally) at a lower voltage.   The generator puts out so little energy,  I've seen meters survive just from being shit designs without enough clearance or creepage.   This will normally draw out the comments, "look, the $0.99 meter survived at 10KV!!!"   

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/metrix-mtx3293-quick-teardown/?action=dlattach;attach=284434;image

Without the larger parts in both legs,  I can't see this thing holding up very well in the tests I run.  The tape holding the plastic cover down will be fuel for the fire.    It looks like ferrite under the pink heat shrink on the large ribbon.  Can anyone confirm?

Also interesting is that the input jacks, input protection resistor, and PTC (which are all through hole), don't appear to use through hole solder joints.  The board is well secured in the plastic frame with screws, but this would still concern me regarding reliability in field use (and your vibration tests).

I think the ribbon cables would be fun to watch with the vibration testing.      The fuse holder didn't look all that impressive as well.   With only the large fuse, I wonder can you damage the meter with the lower ranges?     No pictures of the switch contacts.   It must just be a nightmare to take it all the way apart. 

It's on par with the price of the Gossen Ultra and I have my doubts that it would perform as good as my UNI-T.  As many problems as that Ultra has, it is a solid player when it comes to how electrically robust it is!  My guess is just too many marketing wankers were involved.   

Had the person who wrote me and offered to test their Metrix shown the results (with the meter surviving) I may have picked one up to run.  If I am going to spend this sort of cash on a demo, I would rather spend it on something that stands a chance of doing well. 

[Markus2801A]

I sorry, but I don't understand why do "we" want to destroy those devices with extrem torture testing, which will never occur in real life.
A technician, who spends so much money for a DMM like the Metrix MTX 329x-Series or other high end Meter like Fluke, Gossen etc. will take care of his equipment!

I indeed do understand, that good input protection and rigid construction, high quality Materials and electrical parts should be present in higher priced meters. But aren't some of these exaggerated stress tests a little bit absurd. Sorry if I say directly what im thinking, but I'am a very careful person as I know how long I have to work to be able to buy such a high priced meter!

[joeqsmith]

I sorry, but I don't understand why do "we" ant to destroy those devices with extrem torture testing, which will never occur in real life.
A technician, who spends so much money for a DMM like the Metrix MTX 329x-Series or other high end Meter like Fluke, Gossen etc. will take care of his equipment!

I indeed do understand, that good input protection and rigid construction, high quality Materials and electrical parts should be present in higher priced meters. But aren't some of these exaggerated stress tests a little bit absurd. Sorry if I say directly what im thinking, but I'am a very careful person as I know how long I have to work to be able to buy such a high priced meter!

I personally won't take offense to your question. 

Also - as I am a teacher - I consider take them into school to show some basic measurements to my students (its because unfortunately you don't get state of the art equipment from school, what a pity!)

As someone teaching though, I would have expected you to do your homework first before attempting to teach us.  If you are curious about the IEC standards, I would start by doing a search on the 61010.   If you are curious about the little tests that I run, there is a FAQ and a few videos that go over it.    Anything I show is a far cry from what the IEC standards call for.   

Now if this particular Metrix meter would survive the basic tests I run, it's a pure guess on my part based on my experience running other meters.   I do offer all the data I have collected free of charge.  You can look through it and see that there is a trend for certain brands to be much more robust than others.  I would expect the highest cost meter to be one of the most robust. 

[Markus2801A]

I would expect the highest cost meter to be one of the most robust.

I totally agree with you ;-) As you pay more for the device it should be well designed and made!
Its very annoying if it isnt, since the "law" of economy says, you get what you pay for! But unfortunately in our money driven World to many players try to optimize their profits instead of their products.

[2N3055]

I would expect the highest cost meter to be one of the most robust.

I totally agree with you ;-) As you pay more for the device it should be well designed and made!
Its very annoying if it isnt, since the "law" of economy says, you get what you pay for! But unfortunately in our money driven World to many players try to optimize their profits instead of their products.

Not necesarily. Long scale benchtop meter are not robust at all. They have other priorities. I believe same is here. MTX 3293 is for electronics, in the lab. It's robust enough for that.  Also, no, I don't hit it with a hammer or play football with it. So it will last.

[Markus2801A]

Not necesarily. Long scale benchtop meter are not robust at all. They have other priorities. I believe same is here. MTX 3293 is for electronics, in the lab. It's robust enough for that.  Also, no, I don't hit it with a hammer or play football with it. So it will last.

Totally agree! :-) High End Benchtop cost multiple of even the highest priced Handheld available Because of their usage is in Lab so u have to be careful with them :-)

H, thinking of buying the C.E.M. DT-9987, because it seems to take some time until the new C.A. 5293-BT is released. What du you think? Or the Uni-T? or other, I dunno 

[joeqsmith]

Not necesarily. Long scale benchtop meter are not robust at all. They have other priorities. I believe same is here. MTX 3293 is for electronics, in the lab. It's robust enough for that.  Also, no, I don't hit it with a hammer or play football with it. So it will last.

Handheld meters have a specific safety standard just for them.  I doubt you would find too many people (I won't use electricians) who would use a bench meter in a CAT III environment.   It is possible that the Metrix 3293 really isn't very robust and  designed for a nice clean indoor lab low voltage bench use.  Let's see how they market it.  The following quotes are from their user's manual and sales literature:

"IP67 protection against water projections and dust, ideal for outdoor conditions" 
If I look in the user's manual, it states:
"This instrument is been designed to be used as follows: -indoors"   
"IP67, according to NFEN60529"
Even at the company where the meter is designed, I guess they can't agree so we can't expect potential customers to have a clear understanding.
 
"The ASYC IV multimeters are ideal for many applications in industry, telecommunications and defense. Their multiple functions make them easy to use for electrical and electronics maintenance, as well as machine maintenance."

"Safety as per IEC 61010-1 1,000 V-CAT III /600 V CAT IV Safety as per IEC 61010-2-03"

"No time-wasting: the instrument operates while charging "
I wonder how they get that one through certification.

"Fuse 1,000V 11A >20kA 10x38mm"

"This instrument is designed in conformity with the EMC standards in force and its compatibility has been tested in accordance with the following standards: Emissions (cl. A) and Immunity NF EN61326-1"

I spent some time trying to find the certs for it.  No luck.  It could be like UNI-T.  Wait, I think UNI-T actually has some of their products certified. 

So far the closest handheld meter I have found to my HP34401A bench meter is the Gossen Ultra.  It has some problems but it's certainly robust electrically.   
It survived all the basic ESD and line voltage test and made it's way to 6KV 100us FWHH on the low voltage generator.   I stopped testing with the original generator at 12KV 50us FWHH.    It's rare I see meters do this well.  It's a shame that Gossen half ass'ed it with their added fluff and lack of adequate shielding.     

[bugi]

I sorry, but I don't understand why do "we" want to destroy those devices with extrem torture testing, which will never occur in real life.
A technician, who spends so much money for a DMM like the Metrix MTX 329x-Series or other high end Meter like Fluke, Gossen etc. will take care of his equipment!

I indeed do understand, that good input protection and rigid construction, high quality Materials and electrical parts should be present in higher priced meters. But aren't some of these exaggerated stress tests a little bit absurd. Sorry if I say directly what im thinking, but I'am a very careful person as I know how long I have to work to be able to buy such a high priced meter!

Some people take good care of their equipment, and maybe even try to ensure the devices do not meet unexpected stuff at inputs. Some other people are in a hurry, or they don't pay for the meter themselves and don't care, or are otherwise human and make errors. For the latter combined group of people (i.e. majority), extra beefy protections are nice.

I belong to the latter group, having caused flashy stuff both via accidents (e.g. probe slipped from fingers, ended up hitting bad spot) and via lack of thinking (e.g. forgetting a bit of info that I had figured out earlier, then expected 0V, flash.. oh it was about 160V).

And even for those few people that do not make mistakes themselves and take good care of their equipment may end up having to measure stuff that was made/modified/handled (somewhere out there) by who-knows-which-clown, or needs to deal with the unpredictable real world (lightning, somebody digging through a power cable, etc.)... leading to nasty stuff. For these cases, extra beefy protections are nice.

I prefer to see a meter survive a 2000V hit and break at, say, 2500V, rather than only see it survive a nominal 1000V - the first way gives better confidence and trust to it (or well, to the non-tortured siblings of it).

Or maybe I'm just sadistic towards meters and like watching those videos... (also cheaper than blowing meters by myself.)


On the topic of color displays on DMMs: There is definitely some value to having colors on a well designed UI. Unfortunately, in general (not considering just DMMs) I haven't seen many examples of that "well designed", yet. Seems like the devs just throw various colors for the sake of colors, without thinking how to get the best usability benefit from using colors. It tends to require people that have been educated on that particular area, and using them is often quite a bit of extra development cost... and boss then says "not needed".

But even less sophisticated use of color can help with an UI (as long as it hasn't gone too far). But is it then worth the extra cost, especially on a DMM with somewhat limited amount of info shown. I guess this depends on that extra cost and the needs and preferences of each user.

[2N3055]

In my country some people are having monthly salary on a level of how much MTX 3293 cost.
I buy equipment with my own money, too.
So yeah, I'm careful with my equipment. Very.
That doesn't mean I never had slipped probe. Which usually destroys probe and/or DUT..

I didn't work on CRT, or vacuum tube based equipment in a decade.. No 1000V for me. Maybe 400V,on primary side switching PSU.
Pretty much if meter survives static discharge test, that's all high voltage it will see on my desk. And that not much, with ESD mat and such..

I do have some equipment installed on the street, connected to power from street lights. Voltage is 240VAC, but that is CAT IV environment, and there I use proper voltage tester or Brymen BM525S.

[joeqsmith]

Or maybe I'm just sadistic towards meters and like watching those videos... (also cheaper than blowing meters by myself.)

  

I do still find it interesting just how well designed some meters are at a very low cost.  The Fluke 101 is a great example.    Obviously, designing an electrically robust handheld meter doesn't mean it needs to add a lot of cost to the product.   I would say that is true even for the mechanical robustness (function switch).  That Fluke 17B+ is still one of the best meters I have looked at for switch wear.   Then we see a Keysight with it's glass filled detent spring cracking after a few cycles.   

I've seen over and over that high cost doesn't equal a well designed and constructed meter.   It's too bad that there are not independent labs testing these products and informing the public so they can make better choices.   

[Markus2801A]

...
I prefer to see a meter survive a 2000V hit and break at, say, 2500V, rather than only see it survive a nominal 1000V - the first way gives better confidence and trust to it (or well, to the non-tortured siblings of it).
Seems like the devs just throw various colors for the sake of colors, without thinking how to get the best usability benefit from using colors.
...

Totally agree with your statements, didn't want to "Quote" all just to keep this thread readable.
UI-Design is very important, so we can only hope that the devs will keep on progressing with colored UI design to make an extra benefit of using a color display. It seems that the C.E.M. - as I have seen on youtube reviews - has got a good visibility. Don't know if every possible information layout possibility is user freindly and logically placed, but reading of values should be very clear.
The DT-9987 is approx 260€-280€, and also has BT Capability, so maybe it would satisfy my needs of showing some device in class und do some basic measurements with possibility of displaying values via BT and over beamer.

But I am somehow a perfectionist and would like to put something special in terms of workmanship and accuracy and professionalism to the day. I know that most of my student will not dig so deep into this topic as we do here. So most of them will not recognize the difference or appreciate the quality of higher priced DMM vs lower Cost Multimeters.

[mqsaharan]

The older model MTX3282 had MOVs in it. I can only guess that these blue SMDs under the clear plastic shield are MOVs. The manual does say "Protection by varistors" under DCV and ACV specs. I am not sure how well it'll behave with high voltage transients.

The MTX3293 is using Hycon chip for front end and ES5 TRMS converter from Cyrustek (if I am not mistaken).

Sadly they didn't use a Precision Decade Resistor Divider (hybrid resistor network) like Gossen. I am not sure how linear its ranges are.

It has the worst bar graph for such a high priced meter. I wonder why they'd even put it there.

The meter is also missing Conductance function. I am not sure how many people will miss it.

By the way, does anybody know what "Hold" function is actually for? Even Fluke has opted for "Hold" in 10x series over "Range" which they used to prefer in their older meters.

The good thing is it is speced for 7A continuous current measurement (page 51) while Gossens usually are speced for 0.7A continuous current measurement.
I like single input Ampere jacks with preferably no new manual function selection for uA to A current measurement.

[Markus2801A]

I updated the initial post with ne DMM and their images, have a look :-)

[Magnum]

That Gossen could easily be switched from outside the box.  IMO, IEC is behind the times to let this sort of thing be allowed in an industrial handheld meter.   Then again, I am surprised Gossen would design a meter like this.     

https://youtu.be/COuCsWDoI9E?list=PLZSS2ajxhiQBTCU8Mq_i9jidT024A0dV6

Just checked my MTX3292: You can switch the relays easily with a magnet. Good to know that you have to keep magnets away.

[joeqsmith]

Just checked my MTX3292: You can switch the relays easily with a magnet. Good to know that you have to keep magnets away.

It would be good if someone could take the time to trace out the front end of the Metrix.   Those parts could indeed be MOVs. 

Too bad about the bar graph.  That's always a sign of a cheap meter when they start adding the useless features.    Lack of conductance is also a bit odd.   It the relays change states, IMO, that's a huge fail on their part.   

[Magnum]

Too bad about the bar graph.  That's always a sign of a cheap meter when they start adding the useless features.    Lack of conductance is also a bit odd.   It the relays change states, IMO, that's a huge fail on their part.

I don't care about the bar graph. If I really need it I connect it to my PC and can see what I need. I also don't care if it can handle high tensions etc., as I mainly use it for voltages below 50V. What bothers me is the magnet problem. The question is, what else is available on the market which suits my needs:
- Good readable display
- Intuitive setup menu
- Fast continuity test, preferable the beeper is selectable for open or close (the MTX3292 can't select that)
- Measurement of temperature with type K thermocouple
- Display of the instruments specifications depending on the measured value (you don't have to dig in the manual to know the spec of the selected range and calculate in your head)
- Display of the input impedance depending on the measured value
- Quick startup

I first wanted to buy the Fluke, but it needs several seconds to start, so it was out. The Gossen Metrawatt seems to have the magnet problem, too, despite of not having some of the features I want. So I don't think there is much left?

[joeqsmith]

I don't care about the bar graph. If I really need it I connect it to my PC and can see what I need. I also don't care if it can handle high tensions etc., as I mainly use it for voltages below 50V. What bothers me is the magnet problem. The question is, what else is available on the market which suits my needs:
.....
So I don't think there is much left?

I assume you were happy with your purchase up until the time you discovered this problem.  Had I not mentioned it, would you even know it exists?  Beyond discovering that the money you spent didn't net you the holy grail of handhelds, maybe it's not really a problem.

[Magnum]

I assume you were happy with your purchase up until the time you discovered this problem.  Had I not mentioned it, would you even know it exists?  Beyond discovering that the money you spent didn't net you the holy grail of handhelds, maybe it's not really a problem.

Sure I was happy with the meter. I still am, as I am sure I won't find another one which suits me better. But YOU had to mention the magnet problem. Now every time I pick it up I will search anxiously for magnets. Thank you for that!!!

[joeqsmith]

     

Proof that ignorance is bliss!!   

[2N3055]

Since the days of CRT's, tape recorders and mechanical meters, I was always paranoid and worried about any strong permanent magnets at the electronics desk.
I just realized that only magnet I had close to my desk was magnetic holder for Brymen meter..
It's not going to be a problem.
I use it for"fancy" measurements, like relative percentage, etc etc

When I need a tank, I use Brymen.

[mr.fabe]

With the lineup, you may want to add the Flir DM285.  It's a multimeter and thermal imager with data logging and remote viewing (bluetooth) capabilities.

[Markus2801A]

Read about Flir`s Display isn't really scratch proof!
Has anybody experience with Fair DMM devices? Accuracy etc.?

So I would say, one of the top Players are Fluke, Gossen, Chauvin Arnoux/Metrix, Brymen, Appa, have I forgotten some good OEM?
If you don't consider to buy cheap china crap and want to do serious, quality measurements.

But as already seen in reviews or postet here, all of those meters have their pros and cons.
Slow boot up, magnetic interference problem, ghosting of display whatever, BarGraph issues etc... it seems the perfect meter hasn't been developed yet.
Maybe we should create some kind of kickstarter project and design our own like EEVBlog Meter v2?

[TheNewLab]

I don't care about the bar graph. If I really need it I connect it to my PC and can see what I need. I also don't care if it can handle high tensions etc., as I mainly use it for voltages below 50V. What bothers me is the magnet problem. The question is, what else is available on the market which suits my needs:

- Measurement of temperature with type K thermocouple...

[/quote]
Regarding type K thermocouple, I find I am always using this on a second multimeter when working in the desk

[threephase]

Read about Flir`s Display isn't really scratch proof!
Has anybody experience with Fair DMM devices? Accuracy etc.?

So I would say, one of the top Players are Fluke, Gossen, Chauvin Arnoux/Metrix, Brymen, Appa, have I forgotten some good OEM?
If you don't consider to buy cheap china crap and want to do serious, quality measurements.

But as already seen in reviews or postet here, all of those meters have their pros and cons.
Slow boot up, magnetic interference problem, ghosting of display whatever, BarGraph issues etc... it seems the perfect meter hasn't been developed yet.
Maybe we should create some kind of kickstarter project and design our own like EEVBlog Meter v2?

I would have thought that Keysight could be added to your list of 'Top Players'?

I do not have the DM285, but have a Flir insulation tester and clamp meter. I was thinking about a DM285 as you can link their different instruments together through their software and have voltage / current / insulation tester values displayed on the thermal image and I have an application in mind that could utilise that.

You do pay a lot for Flir instruments and some of their cheaper models look to be CEM lookalikes.

The instruments I have are fine in terms of accuracy / build quality, but do lack a bit of functionality which I would expect in a high end meter, that has wireless connectivity. The accuracy of them does tend to be more towards electrical requirements rather than electronic, so may not suit your needs.

The meters I have all utilise AAA batteries, so battery life is questionable. I believe that the DM285 had a different battery option so may be better. Neither of them came with a carry case either, so that is an extra cost if you require one, or you could go for one of their kit versions.

The test leads are reasonable quality, but are moulded test probes with threaded tip adapters, so are not overly compatible with optional accessories. So again another cost if you wish to use different test connections other than a standard probe or crocodile clip.

If you want to see more, I did review the IM75 insulation tester both on here and on element14.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-im75-teardown/msg1793243/#msg1793243

https://www.element14.com/community/groups/test-and-measurement/blog/2018/08/27/flir-im75-insulation-tester-dmm

Kind regards

[Markus2801A]

I don't care about the bar graph. If I really need it I connect it to my PC and can see what I need. I also don't care if it can handle high tensions etc., as I mainly use it for voltages below 50V. What bothers me is the magnet problem. The question is, what else is available on the market which suits my needs:
- Good readable display
- Intuitive setup menu
- Fast continuity test, preferable the beeper is selectable for open or close (the MTX3292 can't select that)
- Measurement of temperature with type K thermocouple
- Display of the instruments specifications depending on the measured value (you don't have to dig in the manual to know the spec of the selected range and calculate in your head)
- Display of the input impedance depending on the measured value
- Quick startup

I first wanted to buy the Fluke, but it needs several seconds to start, so it was out. The Gossen Metrawatt seems to have the magnet problem, too, despite of not having some of the features I want. So I don't think there is much left?

Especially this one question is also what I ask myself?

There are so many DMM on the market available but the problem ist, just a few of them are well made for serious measurement etc. Other are cheap china crap or rebranded or rebadged types. So there are only a few left on the list for me and this list is even getting smaller when considering availability of a Type in Austria.


In my Case you can get (not alle models available): Fluke, Gossen, Chauvin Arnoux & Metrix, Keysight, Benning (which seems to be made by APPA), Brymen
Secondary list: CEM, Extech, RS-Pro and Peaktech, which seems to be made by CEM, Uni-T
So you see there aren't many DMM on the market if you have a few requirements:

• Accuracy & long time stability etc.
• good, readable Display
• Bluetooth (connectivity to PC/SmartPhone)
• Build Quality
• Safety
• all for serious Measuring

[Cnoob]

Accuracy & long time stability etc.
good, readable Display
Bluetooth (connectivity to PC/SmartPhone)
Build Quality
Safety
all for serious Measuring

The meter I have which ticks all these boxes is my Keysight U1242C it came with a usb lead and I bought the short range Bluetooth module for £37 plus the Android software is free to download. Other keysight meters in that range/styling are also tick those boxes.
Although I prefer my Hioki DT4282 the U1242C is the close thing I own to being an electricians/electronics multimeter.   

[RoGeorge]

I have an MTX3283, old version, no color LCD.

Good
- Buttons instead of a rotary switch for ranges, brilliant innovation.
- Another big plus is that the MTX3283 model can log simultaneously the voltage and the current (not all models can do that), good feature when charging/discharging batteries.

Bad
- Very slow, almost unusable when autoranging.  Even when on manual range, it's still slow. (yet, the continuity beeper is very fast, no complains about the beeper)

Other than that, it looks and feels like a solid and rugged instrument.  I suspect it was meant to be used rather by an electrician than an electronist.

I wouldn't buy that model again because it is too slow. 

[Markus2801A]

Regarding the Release of the Successor of the Metrix Asyc IV Series with Color Display MTX 3291-BT and MTX 3293-BT, today C.A. Austria called me and they said that C.A.-Headquarter in FR will delay the release of the new type Model C.A.5292BT and 5293BT for approx. one year. So the blue Metrix one is the actual Model and I ordered it right away! It will arrive tomorrow or on Thursday, im so excited about it and will share my thoughts about it ASAP.

The Keysight meters are for sure one of the Top Player, they should upgrade their product line with graphics display and and include BT Modul.

I'm wondering, so many improvements have been made to SmartPhones, but on the DMM-Side they stick to their (of course well designed) "old" Series? Why?
It should be possible to equip all high end Meters with HD-Quality Color Display, better UI, Firmware upgrade ability etc.

[2N3055]

Regarding the Release of the Successor of the Metrix Asyc IV Series with Color Display MTX 3291-BT and MTX 3293-BT, today C.A. Austria called me and they said that C.A.-Headquarter in FR will delay the release of the new type Model C.A.5292BT and 5293BT for approx. one year. So the blue Metrix one is the actual Model and I ordered it right away! It will arrive tomorrow or on Thursday, im so excited about it and will share my thoughts about it ASAP.

The Keysight meters are for sure one of the Top Player, they should upgrade their product line with graphics display and and include BT Modul.

I'm wondering, so many improvements have been made to SmartPhones, but on the DMM-Side they stick to their (of course well designed) "old" Series? Why?
It should be possible to equip all high end Meters with HD-Quality Color Display, better UI, Firmware upgrade ability etc.

Wow, they CALLED you..  I sent e-mails to export@chauvin-arnoux.fr and posted question on their online site. Nobody got back to me.
Their support makes Rigol and Siglent support look fantastic..
And that is for MOST EXEPENSIVE handheld multimeter they make..

Congrats on your new meter. It is very nice, I find it very easy to use, works well, and has nice features (PT100/1000 and J/K thermocouple temp measurement, zener mode in diode testing, VA mode, math, external current probe support etc..)

[joeqsmith]

I was going to be a smart ass and ask if you had ordered the magnetic strap to go with it.   After doing a search on their site, it appears they don't offer such an accessory.    Gossen does but it seems they may have known better.   

[2N3055]

I was going to be a smart ass and ask if you had ordered the magnetic strap to go with it.   After doing a search on their site, it appears they don't offer such an accessory.    Gossen does but it seems they may have known better.   

LOL

[Magnum]

Does someone have the calibration software for the MTX329x? Maybe it is possible to sniff the USB data transfer for recalibration. I assume they use SCPI commands for the calibration, as SCPI is already implemented.

[Markus2801A]

Wow, they CALLED you..  I sent e-mails to export@chauvin-arnoux.fr and posted question on their online site. Nobody got back to me.
Their support makes Rigol and Siglent support look fantastic..
And that is for MOST EXEPENSIVE handheld multimeter they make..

Congrats on your new meter. It is very nice, I find it very easy to use, works well, and has nice features (PT100/1000 and J/K thermocouple temp measurement, zener mode in diode testing, VA mode, math, external current probe support etc..)

Yes, C.A. Austria called me, its really bad that French Headquarter is not responding to you. Seems the austrian Department is more customer friendly.

Thanks, hope it will arrive soon and I can do my first basic measurements with it.
And yes I will be very carefully with it and I won't place any magnets beside this meter ;-)

[mr.fabe]

The meters I have all utilise AAA batteries, so battery life is questionable. I believe that the DM285 had a different battery option so may be better. Neither of them came with a carry case either, so that is an extra cost if you require one, or you could go for one of their kit versions.

The test leads are reasonable quality, but are moulded test probes with threaded tip adapters, so are not overly compatible with optional accessories. So again another cost if you wish to use different test connections other than a standard probe or crocodile clip.

The Flir DM285 runs on 3 AA batteries.  I use Eneloops on mine.  No need to buy the optional battery pack.

The test leads have soft flexible silicone, sharp 2mm tips.  They include the tip shields, alligator clips, thermo probe, and nylon type carrying case.

The DM285 has a thermo camera, proximity volt alert, data logging, flashlight, laser pointer, Low Z, bluetooth, and 10 year warranty. 

I wanted a low cost thermo camera and initially purchased the Flir One Pro but it was flimsy and had a crappy battery.  The DM285 had similar features plus full DMM capability.  This meter has replaced my Fluke 117 and Fluke 87V as a secondary DMM.  The Fluke 289 is my current goto.

[threephase]

The Flir DM285 runs on 3 AA batteries.  I use Eneloops on mine.  No need to buy the optional battery pack.

The test leads have soft flexible silicone, sharp 2mm tips.  They include the tip shields, alligator clips, thermo probe, and nylon type carrying case.

The DM285 has a thermo camera, proximity volt alert, data logging, flashlight, laser pointer, Low Z, bluetooth, and 10 year warranty. 

I wanted a low cost thermo camera and initially purchased the Flir One Pro but it was flimsy and had a crappy battery.  The DM285 had similar features plus full DMM capability.  This meter has replaced my Fluke 117 and Fluke 87V as a secondary DMM.  The Fluke 289 is my current goto.

Good to know that you are happy with your DM285. I also have the Flir One and yeah, pretty much have to charge it every time it is used. I also don't think that the software for the iPhone is that great, very basic. There is the iSeek out there as an alternative, that uses the phone's battery, but I haven't come across anyone who uses them.

Kind regards

[Markus2801A]

The Flir DM285 seems to be a pretty good device! Approx. 699€ including the Thermal camera, no other company offers such a device.

Display seems to be very crisp and clear and readable! :-)

I would say Fluke has to really update their 287/289 product line!

[Magnum]

But it has a basic accuracy of only 1%. So it might be a good thermal camera, but unfortunately not a high end handheld multimeter.

[Markus2801A]

But it has a basic accuracy of only 1%. So it might be a good thermal camera, but unfortunately not a high end handheld multimeter.

You're right! Very sad, they didn't adress this in such a high priced DMM!

[mr.fabe]

But it has a basic accuracy of only 1%. So it might be a good thermal camera, but unfortunately not a high end handheld multimeter.

The accuracy does indeed suck for a overly priced meter and is bulky.  The voltage spec is actually 1000VAC +/- 1% / 1000VDC +/- 0.09%. The market targeted for this meter is for electrical work, not electronics.  It's comparable to my electrician's 117 but offers mV, mA, and uA which the 117 does not offer.  The Flir DM285 is an all in one that does many things but not one thing extremely well.

[Magnum]

The accuracy does indeed suck for a overly priced meter and is bulky.  The voltage spec is actually 1000VAC +/- 1% / 1000VDC +/- 0.09%. The market targeted for this meter is for electrical work, not electronics.  It's comparable to my electrician's 117 but offers mV, mA, and uA which the 117 does not offer.  The Flir DM285 is an all in one that does many things but not one thing extremely well.

Oh yes, you are right, I missed the 0.09%.

[luma]

Here we are in 2022 and I'm still looking around for something much like the meter described in the OP.  High DPI color screens are now cheap as chips, microcontrollers to run them are even cheaper, and the UI toolsets to develop nice looking solutions have had a few years to bake.

An initial search around the forum and the internet suggests... not much has changed   Anyone have any thoughts on the state of the market today?

Here's what I think I'd enjoy in a meter in 2022:

• Bigass display with clear font rendering.  It's not 1986 anymore, we should be able to do something a bit more readable than fixed-digit LCDs.
• Let's have it be color while we're at it.  Why not have a different color scheme when I'm in VDC mode than when I'm in VAC, etc.  Screens are big and high res and color and cheap, let's put them to use!
• I don't have time in my life to wait around for my meter to boot up.  You should be able to fire up a UI and start taking readings in a second.
• Let's throw in USB charge and data in the same port while we're at it.

[Fungus]

Here's what I think I'd enjoy in a meter in 2022:

I get the feeling most people would prefer not to have to charge their meter every single day before they can use it.

You're only showing a number on the screen, not pictures of kittens.

Let's throw in USB charge while we're at it.

And ... a battery that won't even hold a charge after three years, amiright?


FWIW: Aneng now sells multimeters that cater to the imagination of the smartphone generation:

[luma]

lol, that's the reaction that I expected coming into this.  The model you link above is essentially the same thing as an 80s vintage LCD - fixed digit display made to a price point.  I'll just say this: not everyone has the same use case.  If you're happy with that, great sounds good glad you have a solution you like.  I'm looking for something different.

So, how about something closer in line with what the OP was talking about 3 years back?

edit: in regards to replacing the rechargeable battery after 3 years: yeah sounds great!  Make it replacable, then I can keep it charged and then only replace when the battery is actually worn out instead of every time it drains.

[Fungus]

lol, that's the reaction that I expected coming into this.

So why ask?

The model you link above is essentially the same thing as an 80s vintage LCD - fixed digit display made to a price point.

I know. That's why I said "caters to the imagination of..." instead of "has a hires screen".

Maybe you can get a Uni-T UT181a, it sounds perfect for you.

edit: in regards to replacing the rechargeable battery after 3 years: yeah sounds great!  Make it replacable, then I can keep it charged and then only replace when the battery is actually worn out instead of every time it drains.

It's not just the battery, it's the screens, too: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/replacing-oled-screen-on-an-agilent-u1253a-multimeter/

[Markus2801A]

Here we are in 2022 and I'm still looking around for something much like the meter described in the OP.  High DPI color screens are now cheap as chips, microcontrollers to run them are even cheaper, and the UI toolsets to develop nice looking solutions have had a few years to bake.

An initial search around the forum and the internet suggests... not much has changed   Anyone have any thoughts on the state of the market today?

Here's what I think I'd enjoy in a meter in 2022:

• Bigass display with clear font rendering.  It's not 1986 anymore, we should be able to do something a bit more readable than fixed-digit LCDs.
• Let's have it be color while we're at it.  Why not have a different color scheme when I'm in VDC mode than when I'm in VAC, etc.  Screens are big and high res and color and cheap, let's put them to use!
• I don't have time in my life to wait around for my meter to boot up.  You should be able to fire up a UI and start taking readings in a second.
• Let's throw in USB charge and data in the same port while we're at it.

I totally agree! We have 2022 and almost nothing changed since years regarding Multimeters of almost every kind (regardless if they are Benchtop or even worse when looking at handheld units!) Okay keithley has one with touch screen, that's great! :-) a right step forward!

It should be possible to produce good quality handheld units with maybe also with touch display!
I really like the "different color scheme..." thing you mentioned. Why not give e.g. amperage measurements red color, Voltage maybe Blue, AC Voltage orange or whatever the user wants to.
You can get cheap Mobile phones and customize almost everything and the cameras and screens are relative great, especially if compared to the LOW res used it todays DMM`s!!!

Why do those companies not even try to progress in those above mentioned categories?

[Kleinstein]

I totally agree! We have 2022 and almost nothing changed since years regarding Multimeters of almost every kind (regardless if they are Benchtop or even worse when looking at handheld units!) Okay keithley has one with touch screen, that's great! :-) a right step forward!

It should be possible to produce good quality handheld units with maybe also with touch display!
I really like the "different color scheme..." thing you mentioned. Why not give e.g. amperage measurements red color, Voltage maybe Blue, AC Voltage orange or whatever the user wants to.
You can get cheap Mobile phones and customize almost everything and the cameras and screens are relative great, especially if compared to the LOW res used it todays DMM`s!!!

Why do those companies not even try to progress in those above mentioned categories?

Things have changes in the last 10-20 years:
lower cost (e.g. $20 range) hand held meter start to have more than 2000 counts, like 6000 counts.
The ADC in the handheld DMMs is changing from classic dual slope ADC of the 1990s to sigma delta ADCs.
Auto scaling becomes standard.
Some Handhelp DMMs use digital RMS (though not often noted and often advertised and with limited BW, but fast reaction).
Increasingly more of the cheap meters get at least some protection worth the name, though still not good.
Bench DMMs with graphical display.

For most uses a 3.5 digit resolution is perfectly fine - the important points are often more if the protection is OK and the continuity test / auto scale Ohms speed.
A touch display is error prone and may need internal relays or more seprate switching.  The mechanical range switching can provide quite some internal .
switching.  I don't think you would like tough screeen operation and than constant plugging the test leasd to different terminals for the current ranges, Ohms and voltage functions.
The usual DMM runs on normal batteries and one would not like a daily recharge cycle like with modern mobile phones. So low power use is still an important factor.

[luma]

Maybe you can get a Uni-T UT181a, it sounds perfect for you.

After a few days of searching around, I think this is the right answer for me, thanks for the suggestion!

It's not just the battery, it's the screens, too: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/replacing-oled-screen-on-an-agilent-u1253a-multimeter/

That's actually kind of where I'm going with this.  Thanks to cell phones, high resolution displays with MTBF in the 10s of thousands of hours are available for a dollar or two.  Early experiments with things like mono OLED from 10 years ago didn't go well, but.... 10 years have passed and the economics of mobile devices has pushed display technology a LONG way in that time.  Open a supplier catalog for evidence.

Others here are pointing out problems with touchscreens, and I get that and agree for a lot of use cases but... "high-res color screen" doesn't necessarily mean it also has to be a touchscreen.  No reason not to use existing control surfaces (big dial wheel primarily) with a nicer display.

7 segment displays are low power but that's about the end of the advantages they offer.  Visibility on a reflective LCD 7 seg display is hot garbage compared to even crappy modern LCDs.  With a backlight they can be a little more readable, but then you stop being low power and might as well have used a color LCD. 

Just because we are all holding multimeters that were created with technology from a few decades ago doesn't mean that it always has to be this way, and that no improvements could possibly be made.  Uni-T seems content to wait around for Fluke et al to make a thing and to then make a clone of that thing.  Fluke's product cycle is glacial for their own (good) reasons, but not everyone out there needs the value that Fluke brings to the table (which are often unrelated to the actual performance of the device).  One can hope that product managers from other companies can identify the pretty huge gap here and maybe develop something to fill it.

Until then, the UT181a suggestion seems to be a reasonable tradeoff of visibility, performance, and price for me.  Teardowns of that unit show a date of 2013 on the PCB, and devices seem to have hit the market in 2015.  It seems like the DMM market just stone stopped trying new ideas in the 7 years since...

[2N3055]

It's not just the battery, it's the screens, too: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/replacing-oled-screen-on-an-agilent-u1253a-multimeter/

That's actually kind of where I'm going with this.  Thanks to cell phones, high resolution displays with MTBF in the 10s of thousands of hours are available for a dollar or two.  Early experiments with things like mono OLED from 10 years ago didn't go well, but.... 10 years have passed and the economics of mobile devices has pushed display technology a LONG way in that time.  Open a supplier catalog for evidence.

Others here are pointing out problems with touchscreens, and I get that and agree for a lot of use cases but... "high-res color screen" doesn't necessarily mean it also has to be a touchscreen.  No reason not to use existing control surfaces (big dial wheel primarily) with a nicer display.

7 segment displays are low power but that's about the end of the advantages they offer.  Visibility on a reflective LCD 7 seg display is hot garbage compared to even crappy modern LCDs.  With a backlight they can be a little more readable, but then you stop being low power and might as well have used a color LCD. 

Just because we are all holding multimeters that were created with technology from a few decades ago doesn't mean that it always has to be this way, and that no improvements could possibly be made.  Uni-T seems content to wait around for Fluke et al to make a thing and to then make a clone of that thing.  Fluke's product cycle is glacial for their own (good) reasons, but not everyone out there needs the value that Fluke brings to the table (which are often unrelated to the actual performance of the device).  One can hope that product managers from other companies can identify the pretty huge gap here and maybe develop something to fill it.

Until then, the UT181a suggestion seems to be a reasonable tradeoff of visibility, performance, and price for me.  Teardowns of that unit show a date of 2013 on the PCB, and devices seem to have hit the market in 2015.  It seems like the DMM market just stone stopped trying new ideas in the 7 years since...

High res screens are power hungry. They are cesspool of EMI interference. They need powerful CPU to drive them.
They need lot of current. Last thing people that use meters for work want is to charge it like a cell phone. With crappy little USB-C connector.  In a desert, forest, on a ship, platform, factory, mill, refinery... They need batteries to last for some time, and to be field replaceable, so they can carry spares...

Classic reflective LCD have BEST visibility and contrast. In a daylight. They have backlight for dark places.

Bottom line is, nothing you mentioned have any function. It's all form over function. It is a bane of this modern time where everything has to be in HD even if there is only YES or NO on a screen.

There are many other things that would be useful on a meter. To add arbitrary math, so you have a combination of graphing calculator and meter.. But then there are thousands of Fluke 87V users that would jump at that kind of meter because it is "not ergonomic because it is too complicated to use...".  Many are utterly confused with dual screen on meters... Many find Fluke 289 and Brymen 869 too complicated to use... They demand less features, not more.

Bottom line, these things you're mentioning is not progress. It is you expecting meters to be compliant with current graphic overloaded mainstream culture that values form over function.

At the same time, people that are actually using meters for work couldn't care less for that.
And meters stay the way they are. They are doing their job.

Like forks and spoons, they don't change because there is no need for it. They work perfectly as they are.

[luma]

EMI must be a solved problem because I see color LCDs parked on the front of every other category of test measurement equipment sold in the past decade or so.  Every other measurement tool on my bench is using one, meaning scopes, spectrum analyzers, VNAs, power supplies, bench DMMs, etc etc etc.

For daylight use, my cell phone is perfectly readable in full daylight, and yours probably is too.  That industry has driven display technology to this point and we’re all the beneficiaries of the panels they’ve developed.

In terms of UI, color brings an extra dimension to your eyesight and, used effectively, can convey a world a meaning that you won't get from a 7 digit display.  Again, every other instrument I have on my bench (and most handheld ones) makes use of color to indicate all manner of situations.  Wouldn't it be great if I could set a pass/fail boundary on my DMM, hook it into the DUT, and get a clear green/red indication if the reading is in range?

I know existing meters can last years on a single cell if used sparingly, but my workflow already includes the notion of a charger, my bench and my drawers have all the DC I need, and I already expect to have to occasionally recharge a device.  If the device can make it through a work day for me, then that's enough battery.  The same applies to my wall of cordless tools.  I need an angle grinder to last me as long as my job takes, then I have no problem dropping the battery back onto the charger.  This is an extremely common workflow in industry today and it won't be unfamiliar to most.

I appreciate that you have been using a certain instrument a certain way for many decades, but I don't think it necessarily follows that it simply MUST be that way forever.  Fluke seems to think it's a desirable feature, but only on their highest end models. UI/UX engineers are a thing, and they haven't been sitting still.  Some of us are more ready to embrace new technologies than others, and that's fine, as I suspect you'll have several decades yet of 7 digit displays available in the future.  Me, I'm looking for something a little more thoughtfully designed and which makes effective use of modern technology.  Better still if it was inexpensive and also performed well but... that might be a while coming yet.

[skander36]

@Luma - If you are not happy with the boot time , you will be disapointed , because all graphical display multimeters need a boot time, something comparable with Fluke 289.
UNI-T will be a good choice, but only if you are not looking for logging and analyze data on-site, because his software cannot center graph when you zoom (like Fluke 289). simply when you zoom the graph go out of screen
Also calibrating can be a problem, unless someone know the code ...
CEM's DT-9987 is just a poor clone of Fluke 289 with even worse graph function (no zoom at all) than UNI-T 181A, but it can be easily calibrated and it has bluetooth. Maybe DT-9989 will have more luck.
I didn'tried Metrix and Chauvin.
Also Gossen 273 & 274 at an enormous price - over 2500 E.
There is a clear trend that every maker to have a few models with color LCD display, but that come's with a price, not only money, but power hungry.
But hey I've tried toys like Owon HDS 27X and it boot fast, but it is not a serious multimeter (it's an portable oscilocope) and LCR's meters like UNI-T 622 which also boot fast. For sure there is a way to make fast and acurate multimeters with color LCD display.


 

[Fungus]

EMI must be a solved problem because I see color LCDs parked on the front of every other category of test measurement equipment sold in the past decade or so.  Every other measurement tool on my bench is using one, meaning scopes, spectrum analyzers, VNAs, power supplies, bench DMMs, etc etc etc.

Yeah? Move your 'scope probe closer to the screen, see what happens....

[Fungus]

UNI-T will be a good choice, but only if you are not looking for logging and analyze data on-site, because his software cannot center graph when you zoom (like Fluke 289). simply when you zoom the graph go out of screen
Also calibrating can be a problem, unless someone know the code ...

Doesn't matter. He's not looking for function, he only wants form.

[Fungus]

One can hope that product managers from other companies can identify the pretty huge gap here and maybe develop something to fill it.

Maybe the gap isn't as huge as you think.

Question: In what way would a hi-res color screen convey more information to the user of a DMM?

Cellphones these days have apps and need to adapt the user interface to anything a programmer can imagine. Not so DMMs. They display a single number (sometimes two), have no installable apps and do all their interaction with a dial and two pointy cables.

Given the long list of downsides to those screen (listed above), why would you expect a color screen to sell big enough numbers for a manufacturer to bother making one?

[HKJ]

Question: In what way would a hi-res color screen convey more information to the user of a DMM?

A graphic screen is much more flexible than a 7 segment LCD, some meters do use that flexibility (Like Fluke 289, Uni-T UT181A, Chauvin Arnoux CA 5293).
I like these meters, but in many cases the 7 segment LCD is much more practical and shows enough.

[Kleinstein]

Graphics LCD can be nice if more than just numbes are displayed, like more complicated units ( e.g. kOhms, µS, °C, µs). Individual symbols get quite small and the 15 segment alphanumericals are not so readable for special characters. I don't think there are combined character / graphics LCDs. At least I have not seen them. A more variable display may help showing less digits large or more (e.g. 2 readings or frequency with higher resolution) a little smaller.

Not sure why one would need color - colored backlight may be enough, though not very visible in bright light. Anyway in bright light the simple 7 seg. LCDs are hard to beat - maybe a meter with e-ink display ?

If really more information (e.g. trand chart) is needed a BT link to a smart phone would be an option.

[luma]

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills and forced to describe why the literal entire world has moved to color LCDs, along with every other category of test measurement equipment out there

[Fungus]

a BT link to a smart phone would be an option.

There's plenty of those:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001525757614.html

[Fungus]

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills and forced to describe why the literal entire world has moved to color LCDs, along with every other category of test measurement equipment out there

Ummm.. nobody's saying the screen isn't nice. What they're saying is that there's disadvantages, too.

So many of them that the screen isn't worth it - we can read the number on an LCD just fine, thanks.

[Kleinstein]

Chances are the scope meter picture is not a real photo, but more like some photo-shop edit. The B&W LCD looks like photographed with a flash light. Under this conditions - the color LCD would be hardly readable.  Similar in sun light, color LCD may need shade or very high power backlight.

Color LCD is nice for indoor use and mains powered, but not that great for a portable instrument running from non rechargable batteries. For DMMs color LCD is more like an exception and will likely stay that way.

[HKJ]

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills and forced to describe why the literal entire world has moved to color LCDs, along with every other category of test measurement equipment out there

It looks like you are not understanding the tradeoffs with color displays.
Many times when using a DMM you need to read one value, nothing else. The meter must also work every time it is pulled out of the bag.
With the old fashioned 7 segment LCD I only need a pack of batteries for backup and it will do it reliable.
With a graphic LCD I need charger, a 1 hour break and a mains outlet to get the meter working (If I do not charge it every night).

As I wrote above: I like my graphic meters, but they have serious drawbacks.

[2N3055]

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills and forced to describe why the literal entire world has moved to color LCDs, along with every other category of test measurement equipment out there

Well the numbers on the right screen are smaller than on the F87, and also it is photoshop of screengrab from software . In real life it doesn't look like that. It looks much worse than F87. So yeah, it's worse, despite all the graphics and color. That is what you're incapable to understand apparently. 

Take a look at comparison of MTX3293 and BM869S..Secondary display numbers on BM869S are larger than primary on MTX3293. Guess which one has better visibility (as in capability to read values off the screen) ?

Also I now understand. You would like to replace multimeters with meter functionality from scopemeters. And a big screen from scopemeter. In a box that you need hold with two hands. And all for the price of simple meter...  Good plan. Not gonna happen.

[luma]

Let me try another approach.  Here is a screenshot of the forum as of a couple minutes ago.  In red, I show the 17 threads which concern something with a color display.  In black, there are 5 threads about devices which don't (and two of those are about the same device).  Threads which aren't about one specific device aren't counted.

The test measurement industry seems to think they're useful somewhere....

[2N3055]

Let me try another approach.  Here is a screenshot of the forum as of a couple minutes ago.  In red, I show the 17 threads which concern something with a color display.  In black, there are 5 threads about devices which don't (and two of those are about the same device).  Threads which aren't about one specific device aren't counted.

The test measurement industry seems to think they're useful somewhere....

And how many are handheld multimeters of those??

[luma]

Almost none, which is exactly the point.  DMM market is stuck with UIs and display tech from the 70s.

[Fungus]

Almost none, which is exactly the point.  DMM market is stuck with UIs and display tech from the 70s.

It's what people want, obviously. 

Don't believe me? Start a forum poll.

[2N3055]

Almost none, which is exactly the point.  DMM market is stuck with UIs and display tech from the 70s.

Scopes are not multimeters. Signal generators are not multimeters. Active loads are not multimeters.
Benchtop multimeters are not handheld. They are not battery powered and use as much as 20-30 W (or more) to run.
They are meant to be used at arms length, at room temperatures...
By operators that have time and skill to operate complicated menus..

And you're completely missed the point. Point is there are not many GRAPHICAL multimeters (even B/W screen ones) at all.
And that is not because nobody is "modern enough" to make them. 10-15 years ago there was a moment when there was quite few graphical multimeters at one time.
And they all stopped being made, because there was NO DEMAND for it. There is no real market. They were big, bulky, heavy, had rechargeable batteries that lasted only short time. They were powerful, smart devices and nobody wanted them in handheld format. Then benchtop meters started getting those graphical screens, and that was well liked. You could do all kinds of advanced stuff: histograms, data tables, plots the whole nine yards..
And that is what you buy to work at desk. If you need to carry it around, you get handhelds. In a format that is, well, handheld.

And it is not stuck with U/I and tech from 70ies. It is ONLY low power, high reliability, large temp range display technology in combination perfect for handheld meters.

And it measures values that are expressed numerically. So it shows numbers.
What do you need, some Teletubbies display that will show flowers for good voltage and little poop icon when battery is dead?

You're confused. Manufacturers of the world will manufacture ANYTHING.. Any crap, as long as there are those that will buy it. Fact that nobody makes it IS the writing on the wall...

[free_electron]

nothing better than a good (optionally backlit) black and white lcd.
- highest contrast possible
- sunlight readable
- readable in twilight/ dark ( backlit)
- no pixel flickering / refresh
- sharp font ( no dithering )
- small characters are not restricted to pixel size. the character is a vector etched during manufacturing of the display

now, if you are going to go graphic :
give me trend plot and waveform view so i can look for net disturbances. i don't need a scope but i would like to see at least 100ks/s waveform view so i can look at dimmers and potential interference on powerlines. something i do not like doing with an oscilloscope...

[Fungus]

There's also things like this:

[unknownparticle]

I have the CA Metrix 3293 and the Peaktech.
The Metrix is a superb DMM, great feature set, very accurate, IP67 and great display. The only things I don't like about it is the top, end location of the lead sockets and it is battery hungry, so recharging is frequent if it's on the bench all day. The Peaktech is superb value for money, great feature set, very useable and well made, and, good battery life.

[2N3055]

nothing better than a good (optionally backlit) black and white lcd.
- highest contrast possible
- sunlight readable
- readable in twilight/ dark ( backlit)
- no pixel flickering / refresh
- sharp font ( no dithering )
- small characters are not restricted to pixel size. the character is a vector etched during manufacturing of the display

now, if you are going to go graphic :
give me trend plot and waveform view so i can look for net disturbances. i don't need a scope but i would like to see at least 100ks/s waveform view so i can look at dimmers and potential interference on powerlines. something i do not like doing with an oscilloscope...

And after not even Metrix 3293 does that, I succumbed and just bought Micsig scope. And carry that if I really need to see waveforms somewhere outside lab. And for people that need to look at power network, they eventually buy handheld power analyzers and industrial scopemeters and such...

[Fungus]

now, if you are going to go graphic :
give me trend plot and waveform view so i can look for net disturbances. i don't need a scope but i would like to see at least 100ks/s waveform view so i can look at dimmers and potential interference on powerlines. something i do not like doing with an oscilloscope...

Something like this?

https://www.owon.com.hk/products_owon_hds200_series_digital_oscilloscope


It seems to me like the person complaining "they don't exist!!" really has quite a few to choose from.

[AVGresponding]

"Mobile phone body"?!?

I don't think I've seen a mobile phone that big, outside of Dom Joly's Trigger Happy TV!

[Fungus]

"Mobile phone body"?!?

I don't think I've seen a mobile phone that big, outside of Dom Joly's Trigger Happy TV!

Haven't you seen the leaked pics of the iPhone14?

[MathWizard]

I was unaware of these graphical developments in the handheld DMM's. Some of them look nice. I'm too the point I should really take the batteries out of my good DMM, I just use a benchmeter, and haven't had much need for more than 1 meter at a time.

But yeah, it's like going from B/W TV to color. Some day I'd love to get a scope-meter, with the price of an rtx3080, I'd be way smarter to get a SM or better Oscope, that will last me for years.

[AVGresponding]

"Mobile phone body"?!?

I don't think I've seen a mobile phone that big, outside of Dom Joly's Trigger Happy TV!

Haven't you seen the leaked pics of the iPhone14?

 

[Fungus]

But yeah, it's like going from B/W TV to color.

Again: Nobody's denying they're pretty but I know a guy who has that OWON and the battery constantly needs charging and whenever I need to use it I have to spend a minute pressing buttons to scroll through the ranges and find the right one. I guess you'd learn the menu structure but the battery is a pain in the ass.

With an LCD meter I just pick it up and use it, it's way faster and gives me the same numbers, so... where's the problem?

I really don't feel like I'm missing anything.

[MathWizard]

Does anyone make DMM's w/ it's own Li battery, like a cellphone, and that charges over a cable ? I don't normally have spare batteries, so for me it would be better. For some people I'm sure they'd still want batteries they could buy at a any corner store tho.

[luma]

Most of the color units posted in this thread have built-in rechargeable cells.

[luma]

Does anyone make DMM's w/ it's own Li battery, like a cellphone, and that charges over a cable ? I don't normally have spare batteries, so for me it would be better.

If only somebody would make AA/AAA/PP3 batteries that can be recharged...

In your rush to snark I think you missed the "charges over a cable" part of the question.

[Fungus]

Does anyone make DMM's w/ it's own Li battery, like a cellphone, and that charges over a cable ? I don't normally have spare batteries, so for me it would be better.

The best answer is to own many multimeters. One of them is bound to work.

[Fungus]

I think you missed the "charges over a cable" part of the question.

Or... maybe we can stay away from the idea that all battery power devices are constantly running out.

You know, like all those old LCD multimeters that go for years and years between battery changes. In real life you'll probably change the battery less often in one of those than you'll be will in any kind of rechargeable multimeter.

(and if you think AA batteries are inconvenient to find, wait until you need a new custom-size LiPO for your cable-chargeable multimeter after it's a few years old and no longer holds a charge)

[AVGresponding]

The best answer is to own many multimeters. One of them is bound to work.

Thank you for providing me with a plausible excuse...   

[free_electron]

Something like this?

yes, but 1/4 size (standard fluke 177 size) and costing max 200$. ditch all those buttons and make it a touch screen. and i don need 40mhz bandwidth or that sample speed. it's for powerline 50hz/60hz disturbances.

[AVGresponding]

Something like this?

yes, but 1/4 size (standard fluke 177 size) and costing max 200$. ditch all those buttons and make it a touch screen. and i don need 40mhz bandwidth or that sample speed. it's for powerline 50hz/60hz disturbances.

The more specialised you make it, the more expensive it's going to be, as the market for it will be smaller.

[HKJ]

it's for powerline 50hz/60hz disturbances.

For that you can get a Gossen Energy, it will not show curves, but will log disturbances and harmonic. It will also cost significantly more than $200

[skander36]

Even from readability score prespective, some cheap color LCD DMM's do not improve.
I found on the Amazon this pics.

[luma]

The best answer is to own many multimeters. One of them is bound to work.

Following this wise advice I went shopping in China and wound up with a couple of contenders for different use cases:



The Uni-T UT181A does the normal multimeter stuff.  I'd be happier if it booted faster, if the UI was a little less jank, and the charging adapter was some normal thing that I wouldn't lose, but it's not all bad.  Accuracy and update speed is solid and the UI is easy enough to use if a little ugly.

OWON HDS2010S is a brand new device, the scope update is crazy fast, the DMM features are a little naff, but it's a hell of a lot of instrument for the money.  Also, charges like a normal thing with a normal USB port.

Neither is perfect but the prices are reasonable and the screens a nice and easy to read and packed full of info when used in various modes.  This should do for now BUT IT COULD BE SO MUCH BETTER just in case any DMM vendors are out there reading this...

[2N3055]

OWON HDS2010S : battery life of 4 hours ?

[luma]

OWON HDS2010S : battery life of 4 hours ?

No idea but that's probably in range.  It's a scope that also has DMM features, so comparing it in terms of battery life vs some rando DMM isn't really an apples-to-apples comparison.  It'll last a hell of a lot longer away from the AC cable than my bench scope does, which is all I'm asking of it.

[skander36]

and the charging adapter was some normal thing that I wouldn't lose

You could charge it with any source with 9V/1A on the comon (-) and uAmA(+).

[Fungus]

Does anyone make DMM's w/ it's own Li battery, like a cellphone, and that charges over a cable ? I don't normally have spare batteries, so for me it would be better. For some people I'm sure they'd still want batteries they could buy at a any corner store tho.

Aneng is obviously reading this thread.

Here's your dream meter come true: Aneng smartphone meter

[Vladisti]

Hi guys. Why is there no "uni-trend" in the poll? This company started out with FLUKE. Advise choice: UT181A, UT171B, DT-9989, DT-9979 or your choice.
Привет, парни. Почему в опросе нет "uni-trend"? Эта компания начинала с сотрудничества с FLUKE. Посоветуйте с выбором: UT181A, UT171B, DT-9989, DT-9979 или ваш выбор.

[Markus2801A]

Hi guys. Why is there no "uni-trend" in the poll? ....

Honestly I think I simply forgot to add it to the poll. In the thread I've mentioned it so it was on my "radar" :-)