Need a new soldering station :) - JBC vs Hakko

[deisenberg]

Looking a lot at the JBC DIT-1B 120 V, price is not too bad. But I am wondering how much better it would be then the Hakko FX-951.

Also can't find any really dealers in Canada for JBC and I hate the custom fees :/

Edit:
Ha, Maybe no answers to this because I did not really ask a question :/

What do you guys think of each station, any personal experiences out there with either stations, thanks!

[staxquad]

Looking a lot at the JBC DIT-1B 120 V, price is not too bad. But I am wondering how much better it would be then the Hakko FX-951.

Also can't find any really dealers in Canada for JBC and I hate the custom fees :/

Edit:
Ha, Maybe no answers to this because I did not really ask a question :/

What do you guys think of each station, any personal experiences out there with either stations, thanks!

Canadian prices will make you welcome customs charges from an import
$820.80 /each
http://tooltronic.com/products/soldering-rework/jbc-dit-1b-soldering-station/

[nanofrog]

Between the two, JBC hands down (faster recovery and stability). 

You might want to give http://www.janelonline.com/ a look, as they've the best prices on JBC in the US from what I've seen (and they do ship internationally). They even sell both 120V and 230V versions.

[Circuitous]

I can second the JBC over Hakko, and janelonline.com

I have a pair of Hakko FM-951 stations with lots of tips that i've used for the past couple of years. 
But, I just got a DIT-1B and CP-1C from JBC... they're fantastic.  The FM-951's are now just decoration, looking for a new home for them.
I ordered the units from  Blue Thunder Technologies, due to the price... but, it turned out that they charge the same as Janelonline and they're a bit slow.

I then ordered some additional tips from janelonline and they shipped the same day as the order... postman should drop them in my box today.

[ben_r_]

Huh, Id never heard of JBC. Been a Hakko fan for around 15 years now. Own several of their products and never had a single issue. Ill have to check out this JBC though.

[deisenberg]

Thanks everyone... It will be the JBC, but the DIR model, do a lot more precision work. Can't wait to start soldier with it, been suffering with an Edsyn  for a couple of years and it's horrible.

My other reason for not going with the Hakko, tip change, man does it look so easy with the JBC's

[jahonen]

Thanks everyone... It will be the JBC, but the DIR model, do a lot more precision work.

Also note that you can always get the other handpiece (T245) if you feel need for bigger tips than T210 allows. I'll personally prefer T210 for general smd stuff. The difference in size is like this:



Regards,
Janne

[deisenberg]

Thanks, didn't realize how cheap the handpieces are, will be ordering the t245 along with the unit!

Also for those that seen the Canadian pricing, I just notice that tooltronic.com includes a CSA sticker, required if electronics are sold here. But a $161 extra is not worth it to me.

[Hydrawerk]

This thread is strange. A soldering station is not a test equipment. 

[deisenberg]

Yes, just checked and I should have posted this to the Other test gear forum :/ sorry. Though I do consider a soldering station test gear at times, as I'm sure a lot of people test to see if a cold solder joint fixes a problem 

[nanofrog]

Thanks, didn't realize how cheap the handpieces are, will be ordering the t245 along with the unit!

Also for those that seen the Canadian pricing, I just notice that tooltronic.com includes a CSA sticker, required if electronics are sold here. But a $161 extra is not worth it to me.

In the case of the T245 & T210, they use the same stand. So there's a potential you can save some funds too. 

[deisenberg]

Thanks, didn't realize how cheap the handpieces are, will be ordering the t245 along with the unit!

Also for those that seen the Canadian pricing, I just notice that tooltronic.com includes a CSA sticker, required if electronics are sold here. But a $161 extra is not worth it to me.

In the case of the T245 & T210, they use the same stand. So there's a potential you can save some funds too. 

That is what I plan to do. For an extra $60.00, it's worth every penny.

[EEVblog]

Huh, Id never heard of JBC. Been a Hakko fan for around 15 years now. Own several of their products and never had a single issue. Ill have to check out this JBC though.

I had never heard of JBC either until very recently, they just weren't a brand that had any penetration into the oz market, which has been dominated by Hakko for about 25 years here.
Hakko are super reliable, I still have my 25yo 926 as good as the day I bought it.
I suspect the wizz-bang JBC  I have now won't last that long, just because it's much more complex, but I wouldn't trade the JBC back for a Hakko again. The JBC is a far superior iron.

[ben_r_]

Huh, Id never heard of JBC. Been a Hakko fan for around 15 years now. Own several of their products and never had a single issue. Ill have to check out this JBC though.

I had never heard of JBC either until very recently, they just weren't a brand that had any penetration into the oz market, which has been dominated by Hakko for about 25 years here.
Hakko are super reliable, I still have my 25yo 926 as good as the day I bought it.
I suspect the wizz-bang JBC  I have now won't last that long, just because it's much more complex, but I wouldn't trade the JBC back for a Hakko again. The JBC is a far superior iron.

Dang, good to know Dave thanks! I doubt Ill have to replace my Hakko stuff any time in the next decade, but I will certainly keep my eye on the JBC stuff now. Nice to know there is a good fall back brand now. Im not really a fan of Hakkos design changes and while Im sure their equipment is still top notch, I happen to think it looks like a toy now with their bright colors and design.

[eKretz]

I like the ersa i-Con 1 too, I think it compares favorably wih the JBC. I have a question for the guys with the JBC: does it have different ramp-up profiles to prevent overshoot on recovery? The ersa has low, medium and high; low barely overshoots if at all, but takes a little more time to recover, (still we're talking a few seconds max) hi overshoots a bit, but can easily do the penny soldering test with a pinpoint tip. Medium is between the two, obviously. I picked mine up used from eBay and I absolutely love it.

[robrenz]

No adjustable ramps that I am aware of but from sleep (200C) to 360C 350C setting only bumps 365 for half a second and then sits at 360 takes another 2 seconds to get back to 350C

Edit: Did that test a little too quick. I thought i was set at 360 but was actualy set at 350 and I stuck it back in the stand as soon as I saw 360.

[eKretz]

The ersa is the same way, but the LCD doesn't accurately reflect tip temperature in either case. I have a video I found on a German website that shows this pretty clearly using a temperature probe. The LCDs of both the ersa and the JBC show not much overshoot, but the actual tip temp shoots 65C past what the LCD says on the JBC. Granted, it was one model older than the current station, but I think they're still using the same heating/cartridge setup. Here is a youtube vid of the ersa on low setting:



As you can see it is fairly slow, about 15-18 seconds to recover from 250ºC to ~345ºC or so, but with no overshoot. That is with a fairly substantial tip though. I have actually tested my own with a thermocouple and recovery from 250ºC took 8 seconds on low with no overshoot, 5 seconds on medium with 12ºC LCD/6ºC T/C overshoot, and 3 seconds on hi with 75ºC LCD/65ºC T/C overshoot. This was with a 1.6mm chisel tip.

Here's where you can download the JBC vid:

http://i-tool.de/mediothek/videos/video2.wmv

They also have a hakko vid which shows about 55ºC overshoot on the same test but I forgot to grab the link.

Since the ersa vid didn't go down to the same temp as the JBC vid, I went ahead and re-did my own test with the iron LCD display dropping to 110ºC by being dipped into water like in the JBC vid:

On low setting, took 6 seconds with 17ºC LCD/20ºC T/C overshoot
On med setting took 4 seconds with 23ºC LCD/29ºC T/C overshoot
On hi setting, it took 3 seconds with 65ºC LCD/54ºC T/C overshoot

So the adjustable ramp settings are actually useful, it would seem, since the tips are interchangeable. Perhaps the JBC offers something similar that is profiled per tip, but maybe not, or it shouldn't have overshot so much. I wish I had access to a newer JBC to test this. I enjoy doing objective comparisons between pieces of gear.

[ecat]

Interesting videos but

1) Shocking a tip with a volume of say 20DegC water (high thermal inertia) then allowing it to recover in free air (very low thermal inertia).

Is not the same as

2) Touching a cold joint to be soldered (high thermal inertia) and recovering, at least in part, while still in contact with the joint (high thermal inertia).

Applying power P to mass m will show widely different results between m in free air and m in water and m the mass of copper track. The hope is that the control loop is optimised for typical working conditions.

[eKretz]

That is a good point, I am off for some further testing, will report back when done! I would expect less overshoot within the actual working environment.  I think the original test does have a valid use though, in that it shows what could happen with repetitive joints to be made. For example, high thermal load upon first joint being made, then lift to position for 2nd joint (here it overshoots) then 2nd joint is made, if too soon, the tip could be hotter than what is safe for the component.

I'm thinking the overshoot probably won't be as drastic with less of an initial temperature drop, but I'll have to wait until tested to know. IIRC, the ersa is rated 80W continuous and 150W for up to 20-30 seconds peak; the JBC is 80W continuous and 140W peak. So they are pretty much neck and neck on power levels.

[JohnnyGringo]

Looking a lot at the JBC DIT-1B 120 V, price is not too bad. But I am wondering how much better it would be then the Hakko FX-951.

Also can't find any really dealers in Canada for JBC and I hate the custom fees :/




What do you guys think of each station, any personal experiences out there with either stations, thanks!

Canadian prices will make you welcome customs charges from an import
$820.80 /each
http://tooltronic.com/products/soldering-rework/jbc-dit-1b-soldering-station/

Now they're listing it for $520.50

Update:
Opps... I contacted them and they said that it was a typo.  The price is $803 (Canadian maple leaf dollars)

[echen1024]

I have always used Hakko's, currently using FX-888D, but I think JBC is far superior. I have used it only once, but it is AMAZING. It's just a little too expensive for me, so I use the Hakko's.

[leafi]

We have Hakko soldering irons at work and they are very good however I purchased for my self a JBC microstation and I love it! It really makes doing finer pitch work much easier than the Hakko. JBCs call to fame is the rapid heat up time including when you touch the solder joint. JBC supposedly heats up much quicker once the extra heat syncing of your components, board, and solder kick in. For me I just like the really small tips mine has however they are rather expensive... I just need to find a way for the company to pay for them after all it is their crap Im soldering with my kick butt Iron.

[roli_bark]

The JBC FAST re heating up time (from sleep state) is a little misleading hype.
Because in sleep, the JBC temperature is kept constantly at 180c (factory default - which can be programmed by the user).

So the power needed to get to working T (usually 350c) is relative short. Did not try (yet) to measure the re heating time from a sleep at, say, 100c.

And don't get me wrong. I own a JBC CD-2BC station & love it !

[leafi]

Mine does not stay at 180 it cools all the way down. I know this because I pulled the tips off manually. (plus it has a read out for the temperature)

[Rufus]

Mine does not stay at 180 it cools all the way down. I know this because I pulled the tips off manually. (plus it has a read out for the temperature)

On newer controllers  you can configure the sleep temperature and time it sleeps before going into hibernation where power is completely removed.

The iron sleeps as soon as you place it in the stand the idea being to increase bit life by reducing the time it spends at soldering temperatures. It is the very fast warm up which makes that practical.