New 2GHz touchscreen scope from Tek, June 6th

[nctnico]

It's no secret Dave has a hard time getting around to reviews, he says again and again how time-consuming and elaborate they are

The problem is a modern scope has so much stuff in it that you could easily spend a week full-time researching, and make make several hours of video to cover it all comprehensively. Even a short summary video still needs the time researching which features are important/standout/sucky.

Even without making a video doing an in depth review of a simple scope takes me several days. This new Tektronix scope may easely take over a week to go through all the features it (likely) has.

[EEVblog]

6x2GHz, 6.5GS/s
500uV/DIV-1V/DIV at 50Ohm and 500uV/DIV-20V/DIV at 1MOhm
12Bit Resolution
15.4 Touch
6MSample/CH
500k Update

Will be interesting to see what the bandwidth of the 500uV range is.

[EEVblog]

Tektronix is dead,the Danaher doesnt even try to keep it alive,they are just milking the Tektronix name while it last.Keysight,Rohde & Schwarz and Lecroy poop all over Danahetronix.Once the kind of people who buy it just becose it have Tektronix name due to memories of old analog scopes that were high quality back in the day disappear,then Tektronix will end becose new electronic engineers arent going to know much about analog scopes so they will go for better performing Keysight or R&S.

jeez that's a bit cynical

Not really - just based on observation - They're still plodding on with ancient designs with 2.5k memory, and apart from the MDO ( with a terrible  slow UI ISTR) haven't done anything remotely innovative in over a decade. Keysight have been streets ahead of them for years, and R&S look like they could become a major player.

 

Respectfully, I disagree.  The "ancient" design scopes are still in production purely due to popular customer demand.  The DPO/MSO2000 series introduced several years ago was intended to replace them, but customers demanded both.  The new TBS2000 series introduced last year includes 20M of memory standard, 9" display, etc. On other fronts - there is the new scalable scope platform that features analog bandwidths from 23GHz to 70GHz (200GS/s).  In the last year or two there have been introductions of several new USB-driven Realtime Spectrum Analyzers with price/performance that is unmatched, while the realtime performance of the midrange RTSAs has been upgraded to >3M spectrums/sec.  On the high end of things, a new ultra-wideband realtime spectrum analyzer as introduced 6 months ago that features up to 800MHz realtime BW.  More recently, this year there is a new 8-channel, 16-bit, 5-10GS/s Arbitrary Waveform Generator and a new low cost Vector Network Analyzer.  So, I respectfully disagree that there hasn't been anything new or innovative in the last decade.

As for the new scope...  ...all I can say is...  ...you'll have to wait until June 6th

Fair enough -maybe my (and others') perception has been skewed by the terribleness of the 2.5k TBS scopes that were a colour rehash of a long-obsolete design, and poor UI on other Tek scopes.

Yes, IME this has been most people's observation. And if you limit it to the low-mid end scope market, then the MDO is the only innovative thing that happened in a long time, and it was as slow as a wet week. Tek rightly earned a rep for having horribly unresponsive scopes using old architectures. And IIRC, they had to salvage some of that bad image by releasing improved B models or whatnot with updated processors.
The TBS was viewed as an industry joke regardless of whether or not customers "demanded it".

[EEVblog]

Lets not forget the new IsoVu Optically Isolated 1 GHz System that provides CMRR of 1 million to 1 isolation and allows you too look at low voltage differential signals riding on up to 60kV common mode.       

I've seen that, and yes it's pretty sweet!

[EEVblog]

I respectfully think your view is biased, because you work for Tek. One thing that I don't have to wait for is the price tag, few here will  ever own an the instrument or review it (i.e Dave), well unless..

The question has to be asked, ultimately is there any real practical industry value for a review on such high end gear? i.e. 10's of $k

[EEVblog]

Does anyone have the model number, or want to guess at it?
MSO/DPO6000 sounds plausible?

[Fungus]

The most channels. The largest display. The greatest experience.

+ The Highest Price no doubt

I vote to start a pool on the eventual price. 

Tek, 2GHz, big touch screen, lots of channels (presumably MSO).

I'll say base price $7000 with bare-bones functionality and a more realistic $12500 with "options" (MSO, signal generator, spectrum analyzer...)

[EEVblog]

It could be a replacement for the MDO/DSO5000 series which is 7 years old now, with the B model 3.5 years old. They will have bandwidth overlap there.
I see some reference to the number 5 in the series number, but not sure how accurate that is.

[nctnico]

I respectfully think your view is biased, because you work for Tek. One thing that I don't have to wait for is the price tag, few here will  ever own an the instrument or review it (i.e Dave), well unless..

The question has to be asked, ultimately is there any real practical industry value for a review on such high end gear? i.e. 10's of $k

There are enough people on this forum which have at least some influence on purchasing equipment which such pricetags. Besides that it is nice to know what else is out there.

[EEVblog]

Why does the website have the UK Tek address?
HQ no longer in the US? 

2017 Tektronix | One Thames Valley,
Wokingham Rd, Bracknell, Berkshire, RG42 1NG, UK

[w2aew]

Why does the website have the UK Tek address?
HQ no longer in the US? 

2017 Tektronix | One Thames Valley,
Wokingham Rd, Bracknell, Berkshire, RG42 1NG, UK

I believe it populates the address based on the location of the viewer. Shows the Beaverton address for me.

[Martin.M]

.uk Adress is the Tek EMEA,

PR of Europe/Middle East and Afrika 

greetings
Martin

[Mechatrommer]

I'll say base price $7000 with bare-bones functionality and a more realistic $12500 with "options" (MSO, signal generator, spectrum analyzer...)

i bet that will be in your dream. otherwise, its indeed truly the "new era".

[djnz]

I'll say base price $7000 with bare-bones functionality and a more realistic $12500 with "options" (MSO, signal generator, spectrum analyzer...)

I bet the list price is around double of those - US$15k - US$25k.

[lukier]

Respectfully, I disagree.  The "ancient" design scopes are still in production purely due to popular customer demand.  The DPO/MSO2000 series introduced several years ago was intended to replace them, but customers demanded both.  The new TBS2000 series introduced last year includes 20M of memory standard, 9" display, etc. On other fronts - there is the new scalable scope platform that features analog bandwidths from 23GHz to 70GHz (200GS/s).  In the last year or two there have been introductions of several new USB-driven Realtime Spectrum Analyzers with price/performance that is unmatched, while the realtime performance of the midrange RTSAs has been upgraded to >3M spectrums/sec.  On the high end of things, a new ultra-wideband realtime spectrum analyzer as introduced 6 months ago that features up to 800MHz realtime BW.  More recently, this year there is a new 8-channel, 16-bit, 5-10GS/s Arbitrary Waveform Generator and a new low cost Vector Network Analyzer.  So, I respectfully disagree that there hasn't been anything new or innovative in the last decade.

All the gear you've mentioned is high end or very high end stuff and here I agree Tek still has good things to offer. Also, Tek was and still is good with making excellent probes.

I guess most people here consider <= 1GHz scopes (I'd call this mid-range) and low cost (~100 MHz) ones. In the former Keysight became popular (2k/3k/4k series), in the latter manufacturers like Rigol or Siglent took the market (and Keysight is trying with the new dsox1k series).

I feel that Tek somehow moved away from these markets, offering either old designs or things that are too expensive, focusing on the ultra professional gear instead.

Nothing wrong with such approach, but it is worth to note that the competition is going the other way - R&S, previously also only ultra professional gear maker, acquiring Hameg and releasing RTB series, Keysight introducing DSOX1000 series, LeCroy's affair with Siglent to fill the low cost market segment etc.

I'm quite curious about the new scope, maybe there are some cool innovations there - the specs are intriguing. But again, this is I guess slightly above mid-range segment so outside the pricing range of 99% of people here.

[ebclr]

What's the ROI of a 17K scope?

That's is easy to buy with somebody else money, public even better, but with you hard earned money is very hard to justify

[ebclr]

"R&S, previously also only ultra professional gear maker, acquiring Hameg and releasing RTB series, Keysight introducing DSOX1000 series, LeCroy's affair with Siglent to fill the low cost market"
 

You mean less expensive right Instead of 5 times the "real low-cost" market, only 3 times

[rx8pilot]

Tektronix has always and forever been in the professional market. They design, manufacture, and sell equipment that solves a problem that a business can financially benefit from. Why are so many people expecting them to even have a desire to make some hobby priced piece of gear with ultra-thin margins? The low-end market is a very different business model in many respects - just cranking stuff out to customers that just want to hack all the paid options and complain about surface rust on the low-cost sheet metal. Of course, I have no insight into this new product or where Tek see the market for it, but I suspect they are after business sales.

What's the ROI of a 17K scope?

That's is easy to buy with somebody else money, public even better, but with you hard earned money is very hard to justify

As a business owner - all of my purchases are my hard earned money. The reason I buy equipment for my business to make more money if possible - an actual financial investment. A business is not an endless supply of cash - it takes a lot of planning and consideration to make purchases even for large businesses. Any business that just buys things for the fun of it will not be a business for long. In the hobby/home realm, there is no money generated by test gear - it is just for fun and learning. The hobby crowd is generally looking for the lowest possible cost to get something done which usually means used/eBay purchases or new purchases of the lowest cost options. It is difficult to build a business on top of customers that do not have or are unwilling to spend money.

I can only imagine that Keysights goal with the 1000x is to capture some brand awareness and loyalty early with customers that are just getting started. The real goal is to sell much bigger gear once the students become professionals. Tek has been doing this for decades.

Not sure where Tek is going with this one, but ultra-cheap to target entry level customers does not seem to be it. The good stuff is expensive. If you want the good stuff you have to pay for it. If you cannot justify the purchase - go into the EE business like I did and generate money with it. That way, when you see a $15k scope - you just may say to yourself 'Not bad, that is a good deal!'

[BravoV]

What's the ROI of a 17K scope?

Yeah, I'm curious about that too, especially with maintenance contract during usage period when used at big companies.

How many years, "common practice" before its written off the book by the accounting dept ?

[abraxa]

Why are so many people expecting them to even have a desire to make some hobby priced piece of gear with ultra-thin margins? The low-end market is a very different business model in many respects - just cranking stuff out to customers that just want to hack all the paid options and complain about surface rust on the low-cost sheet metal. Of course, I have no insight into this new product or where Tek see the market for it, but I suspect they are after business sales.

I can only imagine that Keysights goal with the 1000x is to capture some brand awareness and loyalty early with customers that are just getting started. The real goal is to sell much bigger gear once the students become professionals. Tek has been doing this for decades.

I think you answered your own question there. As Dave pointed out in a different thread, Keysight is trying to eat into Tektronix' .edu market share with its newest offers. From my European perspective, it's the sole reason why Tektronix is still known as a brand. If Keysight is successful, Tektronix will slowly fade into obscurity for the next generation(s) of engineers. That said, educational institutions also have budget cuts and there is no reason to dish out $$$ if a Rigol or Siglent will do - which is the case for a whole lot of lab course work.

One more point regarding the scope hacking: why do companies like e.g. Mathworks hand out Matlab/Simulink/etc. out to students like candy, including ALL the (very expensive!) toolboxes? It's so the students get to know every bit of the software and know exactly what to use it for and how to use it. Makes it so much easier to justify the purchase at the workplace if you know exactly how to use the bits, instead of having to say "hey boss, the Mathworks sales guy said this is what we need, so once you spend $$$ for it, I'll spend some weeks to learn how to use it and then it should be ready for our usage scenario". Sure, hobbyists are unlikely to do a mask test, perform eye diagram examinations, perform a jitter analysis and such. But if they *can* and learn how to use those features, they're more likely to demand them from workplace scopes, too, allowing the scope manufacturer to make upsells using the options.

In this particular case where Tektronix only puts ONE SINGLE scope in the drawing, it shows that they apparently don't understand the multiplication factor of hobbyist communities and indeed focus on B2B/EDU sales. Maybe it's working well for them in the US but here in Germany, I'm not too convinced that this is a good strategy.

[nctnico]

Tektronix has always and forever been in the professional market. They design, manufacture, and sell equipment that solves a problem that a business can financially benefit from. Why are so many people expecting them to even have a desire to make some hobby priced piece of gear with ultra-thin margins?

I don't think any A-brand should venture into the low cost (sub $2000) market. Besides that: if you look at Tektronix oscilloscopes in the $2k to $15k range then there isn't anything where their products really shine. Yes the MDOs are somewhat innovative but as several others already commented they are slow to operate so more of a make-do solution.

[ebclr]

Ferrari and Lamborghini are for Cars what Tektronics and Keysight are for Instruments,

Both don't do the ridiculous marketing to positioning yourself as selling a low-cost product.

Keysight and Tektronix must ban the word "low-cost"  from their marketing, and replace with "state of art".

[iainwhite]

Yeah, I'm curious about that too, especially with maintenance contract during usage period when used at big companies.

How many years, "common practice" before its written off the book by the accounting dept ?

Typically, 5 years.    Some people might use other options (e.g. 3 or 7 years), but 5 years is what I would use to depreciate test gear.

In the US, we have an option in the tax code called Section 179 to allow certain amounts to be deducted as expenses 100% in the first year, but you still need to depreciate the asset value over the full term (i.e. 5 years).

Note that this for accounting only - you may well keep using the gear longer.   
Also note that there is a tax incentive to buy more gear and get another deduction.

[Someone]

Yeah, I'm curious about that too, especially with maintenance contract during usage period when used at big companies.

How many years, "common practice" before its written off the book by the accounting dept ?

Typically, 5 years.    Some people might use other options (e.g. 3 or 7 years), but 5 years is what I would use to depreciate test gear.

In the US, we have an option in the tax code called Section 179 to allow certain amounts to be deducted as expenses 100% in the first year, but you still need to depreciate the asset value over the full term (i.e. 5 years).

Note that this for accounting only - you may well keep using the gear longer.   
Also note that there is a tax incentive to buy more gear and get another deduction.

It varies wildly around the world and between companies, some organisations will be on strict lease terms or depreciation schedules and 5 years is a common term. When shopping for used test gear knowing this you can see sudden gluts of high end product at attractive prices in a saturated market. Most companies I have worked at instead buy the equipment outright and keep using it until its worthless through either age or uneconomic breakdown, these sorts of companies are often happy to buy ex lease or run out stock to save money. You'll see all sorts of antiques still in use because they still provide the function or information needed.

[snoopy]

Tektronix has always and forever been in the professional market. They design, manufacture, and sell equipment that solves a problem that a business can financially benefit from. Why are so many people expecting them to even have a desire to make some hobby priced piece of gear with ultra-thin margins? The low-end market is a very different business model in many respects - just cranking stuff out to customers that just want to hack all the paid options and complain about surface rust on the low-cost sheet metal. Of course, I have no insight into this new product or where Tek see the market for it, but I suspect they are after business sales.

What's the ROI of a 17K scope?

That's is easy to buy with somebody else money, public even better, but with you hard earned money is very hard to justify

As a business owner - all of my purchases are my hard earned money. The reason I buy equipment for my business to make more money if possible - an actual financial investment. A business is not an endless supply of cash - it takes a lot of planning and consideration to make purchases even for large businesses. Any business that just buys things for the fun of it will not be a business for long. In the hobby/home realm, there is no money generated by test gear - it is just for fun and learning. The hobby crowd is generally looking for the lowest possible cost to get something done which usually means used/eBay purchases or new purchases of the lowest cost options. It is difficult to build a business on top of customers that do not have or are unwilling to spend money.

I can only imagine that Keysights goal with the 1000x is to capture some brand awareness and loyalty early with customers that are just getting started. The real goal is to sell much bigger gear once the students become professionals. Tek has been doing this for decades.

Not sure where Tek is going with this one, but ultra-cheap to target entry level customers does not seem to be it. The good stuff is expensive. If you want the good stuff you have to pay for it. If you cannot justify the purchase - go into the EE business like I did and generate money with it. That way, when you see a $15k scope - you just may say to yourself 'Not bad, that is a good deal!'

Don't you know that this forum is full of Tek bashers ! If Tek makes something good then it is either too expensive or not talked about at all. If they make something that is entry level then it is not as good as the competition or it is too expensive. If they make something that is midrange then it is too slow even though they integrate a fully fledged spectrum analyser into it. I guess whatever Tek do they will always get bashed here.