Author Topic: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?  (Read 86731 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline fanOfeeDIY

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 297
  • Country: jp
    • YouTube Channel
Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #350 on: January 11, 2018, 12:25:26 am »

I just uploaded the review of auto rage time on measuring resistance on 121GW multi-meter, comparing with other two meters from Keysight and Hioki.
In the future the software updates might speed up the auto-rage but not clear at the moment.

The measurement speed on resistance by manual rage on 121GW had no issue.

I was thinking to make it short but became about 14 minutes video.

I spent too much time on rendering too :)

EEVBlog 121GW Multimeter Resistance test with auto-range slow?
 
The following users thanked this post: thm_w, Bud, exe, iainwhite, gamalot

Offline dcac

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 112
Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #351 on: January 11, 2018, 02:37:09 am »
Looking at the video, that autorange time on ohms is totally unacceptable.
Fluke 87 takes a second.
Any more than this is simply broken.

I tend to agree, the auto-ranging on 121GW isn't just "slow" - it is unusable.

 
The following users thanked this post: Russ

Offline HKJ

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 614
  • Country: dk
    • Tests
Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #352 on: January 11, 2018, 06:11:09 am »
Fluke 87 takes a second.
Any more than this is simply broken.

That makes most of the multimeters on the market broken, except the manual range ones.
 

Offline evava

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 108
  • Country: cz
Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #353 on: January 11, 2018, 06:31:00 am »
from my shop:
(ohms autoranging from open to short)

UT61e - half second, sometimes almost instantly
UT181a - 1.5 second
87V - 1 second
289 - 2 seconds

and AN8008 about four seconds, too slow.

Can someone please try the same (speed of autoranging) on capacitance range, for example from open to 20uF ?

« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 06:39:00 am by evava »
 

Offline markb82

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 59
  • Country: ca
Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #354 on: January 11, 2018, 06:38:10 am »
Had a 100uF on my bench.

Capacitance:
    121GW open circuit to 100uF -> 4.5 seconds
    U1272A open circuit to 100uF -> 1.5 seconds
    BM235 open circuit to 100uF -> 3.0 seconds

Resistance:
    121GW open circuit to short -> 9.5 seconds !
    U1272A open circuit to short -> 2.5 seconds
    BM235 open circuit to short -> 1 second (maybe even less)


« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 06:50:20 am by markb82 »
 

Offline markb82

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 59
  • Country: ca
Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #355 on: January 11, 2018, 06:40:08 am »
I think the firmware needs some serious love.  Perhaps an opportunity for a GitHub open-source project once Dave releases the schematics?
 

Offline HKJ

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 614
  • Country: dk
    • Tests
Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #356 on: January 11, 2018, 06:48:17 am »
from my shop:
(ohms autoranging from open to short)

UT61e - half second, sometimes almost instantly
UT181a - 1.5 second
87V - 1 second
289 - 2 seconds

and AN8008 about four seconds, too slow.

Can someone please try the same (speed of autoranging) on capacitance range, for example from open to 20uF ?

I get about 1.1 sec for UT61E and 2.3s for AN8008, but that is for measuring 100ohm, not a short (The 100 ohm timing is part of my reviews).
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 06:51:10 am by HKJ »
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11158
  • Country: gb
    • Mike's Electric Stuff
Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #357 on: January 11, 2018, 06:50:41 am »
Fluke 87 takes a second.
Any more than this is simply broken.

That makes most of the multimeters on the market broken, except the manual range ones.
Any meter that has sampling fast enough to do a bargraph display has no excuse to take longer then a second to autorange
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 

Offline HKJ

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 614
  • Country: dk
    • Tests
Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #358 on: January 11, 2018, 06:56:47 am »
Fluke 179: 1.4s (100ohm)
Brymen BM869s: 1.9s (100ohm)

They may not have a good excuse for the speed, but they are above 1 second.
 

Offline evava

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 108
  • Country: cz
Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #359 on: January 11, 2018, 06:59:47 am »
Capacitance from open to 22uF smd ceramic:

UT61e  - 2 seconds
UT181a - 2 seconds
87V - 1 second
289 - half second max, seems instantly

AN8008  - 5 to 6 second, too long.
 

Offline exe

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 675
  • Country: nl
  • self-educated hobbyist
Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #360 on: January 11, 2018, 07:16:19 am »
I think the firmware needs some serious love.  Perhaps an opportunity for a GitHub open-source project once Dave releases the schematics?

Hope current behavior is a bug, not a workaround around a hardware problem or limitation.
 

Offline steverino

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 208
  • Country: us
Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #361 on: January 11, 2018, 07:23:39 am »
I think the firmware needs some serious love.  Perhaps an opportunity for a GitHub open-source project once Dave releases the schematics?

Hope current behavior is a bug, not a workaround around a hardware problem or limitation.

I'm really surprised this behavior wasn't discovered before release...Hopefully fixable in firmware...
 

Offline markb82

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 59
  • Country: ca
Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #362 on: January 11, 2018, 07:30:05 am »
Hope current behavior is a bug, not a workaround around a hardware problem or limitation.

I bet alot of it is firmware.  The chipset has the ability to increase the sample rate.  The U1272A also does a 300Mohm to 30ohm in decade steps when auto-ranging, but it does it much faster.  And  a more intelligent auto-ranging method (divide and conquer / binary search or simply get one reading at the highest range and use its result to set the range for the next reading with 50k counts it should converge quickly) would be even faster.

If a GitHub project is started at some point, it would be nice to see if the Bluetooth can be used the implement a simple UART link with SCPI.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 07:31:42 am by markb82 »
 

Offline exe

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 675
  • Country: nl
  • self-educated hobbyist
Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #363 on: January 11, 2018, 07:32:39 am »
I'm really surprised this behavior wasn't discovered before release...Hopefully fixable in firmware...

I'm 100% sure they knew about all the problems as they are apparent. I think Dave said firmware was one of the reasons to delay. My guess is they decided to send batch anyway and issue hotfix later. I don't really care about being a beta-tester, but I want to know an estimation when issues gonna be fixed.

Or I want to try to fix them by myself, but I need FW sources (which they don't want to share). At least could disable that damn beeper. So, I hope this meter won't be yet another good devices destroyed by software problems.

BTW, guys, is it only my meters do not display low voltages in Low Z mode?
 

Offline exe

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 675
  • Country: nl
  • self-educated hobbyist
Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #364 on: January 11, 2018, 07:35:16 am »
it would be nice to see if the Bluetooth can be used the implement a simple UART link with SCPI.

AFAIK Dave said the BT chip manufacturer screwed BT firmware and UART mode disappeared. They couldn't replace it because at that point the meter got its expensive certificates, so they decided not to change it to avoid further delays. But may be hardware mods are still possible. Or a good library that would wrap nasty code in a good API.
 

Offline dcac

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 112
Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #365 on: January 11, 2018, 08:04:15 am »
Do we know the actual update rate on the bargraph?  the manual only states “fast updating" and then there is the “5 times per second nominal”.   

 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11158
  • Country: gb
    • Mike's Electric Stuff
Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #366 on: January 11, 2018, 08:12:08 am »
Poor implementation of something as fundamental as autoranging suggests it's more of a software design issue than a bug. 
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 

Online IanB

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8833
  • Country: us
Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #367 on: January 11, 2018, 08:13:35 am »
There are many apparent experts in multimeter design in this thread.

Maybe there is a reason for it being the way it is?
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 

Offline dcac

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 112
Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #368 on: January 11, 2018, 08:27:25 am »
There are many apparent experts in multimeter design in this thread.

Maybe there is a reason for it being the way it is?

At least I’m pretty sure Dave wouldn't like it to be this way, slow that is.

 

Offline markb82

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 59
  • Country: ca
Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #369 on: January 11, 2018, 08:30:13 am »
Poor implementation of something as fundamental as autoranging suggests it's more of a software design issue than a bug.

Sadly I have to agree with you.  Without seeing the source code it is tough to say definitively thought.   Would be nice to get the schematics from Dave, and write some test code to show that the hardware can do fast auto-ranging.
 

Offline Messtechniker

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 262
  • Country: de
  • Old analog audio hand - No voodoo.
Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #370 on: January 11, 2018, 08:34:06 am »
it would be nice to see if the Bluetooth can be used the implement a simple UART link with SCPI.

That's precisely what I am waiting for (for adapting a few Profilab programs of mine).
But there does not seem to be much hope. Will have to wait and see.
Will only buy one, if this UART thing (i.e. communication via virtual COM on Windows PC) is working.

AFAIK Dave said the BT chip manufacturer screwed BT firmware and UART mode disappeared. They couldn't replace it because at that point the meter got its expensive certificates, so they decided not to change it to avoid further delays. But may be hardware mods are still possible. Or a good library that would wrap nasty code in a good API.
Agilent 34465A, Hameg HMO1022, R&S HMC 8043, Voltcraft VC 940 and M-Audio Audiophile 192
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 26344
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #371 on: January 11, 2018, 08:59:12 am »
it would be nice to see if the Bluetooth can be used the implement a simple UART link with SCPI.

AFAIK Dave said the BT chip manufacturer screwed BT firmware and UART mode disappeared. They couldn't replace it because at that point the meter got its expensive certificates, so they decided not to change it to avoid further delays. But may be hardware mods are still possible. Or a good library that would wrap nasty code in a good API.

Bluetooth LE does not have serial UART capability. We tried workaround to implement this but it wasn't possible so far as we could find.
The module is using the Bluegiga Cable Replacement interface.
We have talked about using a matching module in a USB dongle and then formatting into a SCPI UART string. i.e. doing it with dedicated hardware. Maybe there is even an off-the-shelf dongle wiht the Bluegiga module that could be re-programmed to do this?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 09:01:00 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline brainwash

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 438
  • Country: de
    • Hack Correlation
Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #372 on: January 11, 2018, 10:20:43 am »
Bluetooth LE does not have serial UART capability. We tried workaround to implement this but it wasn't possible so far as we could find.
The module is using the Bluegiga Cable Replacement interface.
We have talked about using a matching module in a USB dongle and then formatting into a SCPI UART string. i.e. doing it with dedicated hardware. Maybe there is even an off-the-shelf dongle wiht the Bluegiga module that could be re-programmed to do this?

SPP mode is only specified for BT2.0 (or 2.1?) and not available for BT4.0. Additionally, SPP is not supported on iOS.
It would be relatively easy to write some virtual serial port software for PCs that takes in the meter's BTLE data. I think once the meters become more available, someone will write such an application. Then you have the advantage of being able to emulate almost any meter, if your LabView code (or whatever) depends on special formatting.
 

Online joeqsmith

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4559
  • Country: us
Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #373 on: January 11, 2018, 10:44:19 am »
should I take your statement as a confirmation that the 121GW is indeed slow?
It didn't seem slow when I watched someone test it.
I guess everything is relative but here it seemed slower than I was expecting from a meter with 5 updates/sec.

I had wondered if it could not run in a low res mode then switch to high res to get it to lock in faster.  The 121GW uses the same front end chipset used in another meter that Dave had reviewed and I though the settling time was discussed back then.   I would guess some of the people who bought one have more than one meter.  Maybe others will do a side by side comparison to give you a better idea how it compares.       

There are more threads on the 121GW than there are meters.  It's getting hard to know where to post.   Because I do not view the slow autorange as a bug, I'll will keep my comments here. 

I don't understand the big surprise about the slow autorange.  I thought we had discussed this some time ago and I certainly showed it in a few of my videos.  I thought I had even made a comment about them using a chip set that Dave had previously commented on it being slow.    :-//    Did people not understand what VERY SLOW meant? 

There may have been a way to overcome it as people have suggested but it seems like if it were an easy fix, it would have been addressed prior to the release.  Maybe Dave will comment on it.     

I am looking forward to seeing reviews of the more complex features, for example reading the power of a 110/220 LED bulb, showing  the BT,  trying some long term data logging to the memory card (over night sort of thing).   For those of you who have received their meters and have taken the time to run some  of these early test,  I appreciate your efforts.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Online ez24

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3086
  • Country: us
  • L.D.A.
Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #374 on: January 11, 2018, 10:55:18 am »
...  trying some long term data logging to the memory card (over night sort of thing).   For those of you who have received their meters and have taken the time to run some  of these early test,  I appreciate your efforts.

I also would appreciate some info on this
YouTube and Website Electronic Resources ------>  http://www.eevblog.com/forum/other-blog-specific/a/msg1341166/#msg1341166
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf