new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004

[Neganur]

Are there any known discounts in the EU/Germany for anybody or students?

I think Datatec.de is able to give you a minor discount. You can select a product and click the button "Bildungspreis anfragen" (or grab the phone and call them)

it's not going to be substantial though, maybe 5...10%

[Pinkus]

Are there any known discounts in the EU/Germany for anybody or students?

I think Datatec.de is able to give you a minor discount. You can select a product and click the button "Bildungspreis anfragen" (or grab the phone and call them)

it's not going to be substantial though, maybe 5...10%

I may get you one RTB2004, 300 Mhz with all options
- RTB2004, 300MHz
- RTB-B1 - 16 channel mixed signal including MSO cable
- RTB-B6 - 25 MHz arbitrary generator
- RTB-K1 - I2C/SPI decoder
- RTB-K2 - UART/RS-232/RS-422/RS-485 decoder
- RTB-K3 - CAN/LIN decoder
- RTB-K15 - history & segmented memory

for 24% discount with warranty, invoice and EU shipping. It is a demo device, and was used for maybe 2 hours.  Thus it is like new - no scratches, dust etc.! It comes with all original material and with original packaging! Latest calibration from R&S from May or June 2017. PM me if interested.

*** Sold ***

[MikeP]

Some disorder in the spec.

[MikeP]

 Results of decoding can run to the right side. The LA-front can appear in unusual place.

 Please explain why at a stop I see multitrace picture which turns in singletrace at the slightest influence? And why I haven’t any possibility to change it? The logical analyzer traces have time-correction?

[Hydron]

Some disorder in the spec.

This seems correct to me - if you're only using one channel from each group (groups being channels 1&2 and 3&4) then you can get 2.5GSa/s and 20MSa memory depth. If you use 3 or 4 channels, or 2 within the same group, then you get 1.25GSa/s and 10MSa max. This is a fairly common type of specification for oscilloscopes which share ADC/memory resources between channels.

[nctnico]

I'm hoping that there is a significant discount if you buy an RTB2004 with all the options.  There ought to be since it's all software license keys except for the LA probes.

The other scope I'm considering is the GW Instek MSO-2204EA.  It has most of the same features, but neither the memory depth nor the BW.  Probably good enough, but 300 MHz and 140 Mpts would be really nice if the uptick in price is not too high.

OTOH the GW Instek has much deeper and faster FFT which makes FFT actually usefull because you don't have to trade off between FFT resolution and optimal time/div settings. IOW you can look at a signal in both the frequency and time domain much more easely compared to other DSOs. Also for the price of the RTB2004 with all the options you can buy a very decent used MSO with a big screen and even 8 analog channels isn't out of the question (Yokogawa DLM4000 series for example).

[rhb]

OTOH the GW Instek has much deeper and faster FFT which makes FFT actually usefull because you don't have to trade off between FFT resolution and optimal time/div settings. IOW you can look at a signal in both the frequency and time domain much more easely compared to other DSOs. Also for the price of the RTB2004 with all the options you can buy a very decent used MSO with a big screen and even 8 analog channels isn't out of the question (Yokogawa DLM4000 series for example).

According to the manuals, the R&S and Instek both offer the same FFT lengths.  It's poorly described in the RTB manual which simply states:

"FFT analysis is performed on the data captured during the entire data acquisition."

Elsewhere in the manual is a table of the available record lengths which are the same as the Instek options.  I can't say anything about FFT speed as I've not fiddled with either of these.  Nor can I comment on the effect of segmented memory on the result.

I'm rather surprised and dismayed that neither Bartlett (triangular) nor Gaussian windows are an option on any of the current scopes I've looked at.  It's not as if a Bartlett requires a lot of resources and the sinc**2 frequency domain shape is almost as good as a Gaussian for limiting sidelobes.

In  the 4 or 5 scope user manuals I've read, the discussion of time domain windows for the FFT makes Wikipedia a veritable fount of wisdom.  I got the strong impression everyone just offered whatever Keysight offered with similar "explanations".

[Hydron]

RTB FFT length is 128kpoints (from R&S Brochure).
Not as good at the 1Mpoint offerings from others, but still long enough to be useful.

[1design]

Maybe I am missing something, but what is wrong with using spectrum analyzers for spectrum measurements. Everyone is way to fixated on the FFT with oscilloscopes, it is a nice add on, but definitely not the main purpose of the instrument. For spectrum measurement of power supplies etc. I always use an SA as it offers much better performance. I own the RTB and the FFT functionality is good, but the use cases a very limited.

[nctnico]

Maybe I am missing something, but what is wrong with using spectrum analyzers for spectrum measurements. Everyone is way to fixated on the FFT with oscilloscopes, it is a nice add on, but definitely not the main purpose of the instrument. For spectrum measurement of power supplies etc. I always use an SA as it offers much better performance. I own the RTB and the FFT functionality is good, but the use cases a very limited.

Spectrum analysers don't go down to DC and they sweep instead of taking a snapshot of a signal. I implement DSP algorithms regulary and 1Mpts FFT is super helpfull to look at a signal in both time and frequency domain to (for starters) see what the wanted signal versus unwanted signal ratio is. Also being able to do FFT on a part of a signal can aid to trace back which part of a signal is responsible for EMC emissions and hence you get a better understanding on what needs to be fixed. In a switching power supply there isn't just one component responsible for emissions.

[1design]

All modern SA have a real time FFT mode. The span depends on the BW of the real time module. They also demodulate, do CCDF, look at pulses and have a wide selection of measurements. They go down to 9kHz, but you are right, not all the way do DC. There are even some that go down to 5Hz. I agree, to do real time processing in the back, you can use the Oscilloscope as a front end, but then FFT is done on the PC, not the scope...I also use it this way for modulation analysis.

[emax]

Buying in Germany:

You'll find exactly the same (list-)prices everywhere, at least if you search the web. Dealers like Batronix or Datatec CAN NOT offer lower prices as they'd immedeately be kicked as a distributor.

I believe, that's what the manufacturers call "competition" . 

But if you ask for an offer by eMail, you'll find differences. I've seen interesting discounts in such personalized offers, and on the end-price, with a bit of smartness, you can often get another 2-3% of payment-"Skonto"'. Or get better probes, a carrying bag or whatsoever.

This, of course, will not make an expensive product inexpensive. But getting (alltogether) 10, 15 or more percent of rebates is still a lot of money.

[Hydron]

Maybe I am missing something, but what is wrong with using spectrum analyzers for spectrum measurements. Everyone is way to fixated on the FFT with oscilloscopes, it is a nice add on, but definitely not the main purpose of the instrument. For spectrum measurement of power supplies etc. I always use an SA as it offers much better performance. I own the RTB and the FFT functionality is good, but the use cases a very limited.

FFT may not be the main purpose of a scope, but many of us cannot justify purchasing a SA for the hobbyist projects we are interested in. In this case a decent scope-based FFT might be good enough for what we need, but a poor one (e.g. Rigol DS1000Z) may not be, so FFT specs/usability can be an important consideration when buying a scope if a SA isn't available.

[nctnico]

Maybe I am missing something, but what is wrong with using spectrum analyzers for spectrum measurements. Everyone is way to fixated on the FFT with oscilloscopes, it is a nice add on, but definitely not the main purpose of the instrument. For spectrum measurement of power supplies etc. I always use an SA as it offers much better performance. I own the RTB and the FFT functionality is good, but the use cases a very limited.

FFT may not be the main purpose of a scope, but many of us cannot justify purchasing a SA for the hobbyist projects we are interested in. In this case a decent scope-based FFT might be good enough for what we need, but a poor one (e.g. Rigol DS1000Z) may not be, so FFT specs/usability can be an important consideration when buying a scope if a SA isn't available.

I don't agree with this. FFT on a scope and a spectrum analyser are catering for two entirely different use cases. There is some overlap but if you need to look at a (frozen) signal in both the frequency and time domain at the same time then FFT on a scope is the tool of choice. Using a PC can be an alternative but the scope would need to be able transfer a lot of data quickly for this to work in an ergonomic way.

[Hydron]

OK, i should have phrased that as "FFT specs/usability can be an important consideration when buying a scope, ESPECIALLY when a SA isn't available" (I agree that they have both overlapping and separate uses).

[nctnico]

Still not happy. Earlier this year I did a project and FFT on a scope was the right tool for the job. There is an SA which works from 10Hz sitting next to the scope.

[MrW0lf]

I'm rather surprised and dismayed that neither Bartlett (triangular) nor Gaussian windows are an option on any of the current scopes I've looked at.

Why look for analytical features in glitch hunting scopes? For this high end from mainstream will do or these in some areas:



One thing common - heavy processing takes place in PC - which is right tool for the job.

[JoHr]

As I have seen on Michaels videos he uses just a mouse ... but likes to use a thumb drive for screenshots as well.
I tried a common USB hub on the front panel ... and it works well with mouse and USB drive at the same time.
One drive could be recognized, other ones are denied.
To be honest ... who needs more than one memory ont the scope?

[Hydron]

Agreed that one is enough. Given the support for USB hubs though it's a shame that they didn't use one internally to add another port or two to the back of the unit. Would make it much easier to use USB mouse/keyboard at the back, with a front port free for memory (without an extra ugly hub and wire permanently connected). Maybe a possible improvement for the next instrument they build using this platform?

[rf-design]

Some disorder in the spec.

Does disorder mean that the RTB hardware/firmware is still able to select any two channel combination for 2.5GS/s?

[Joel_l]

No, you can't use "any" two channels, it must be only 1 of channel 1&2 plus 1 of channel 3&4. So to get 2.5Gs/S you can use,

1 & 3 or
1 & 4 or
2 & 3 or
2 & 4

will run at 2.5Gs/S. Anything else will be 1.25Gs/S.

[ws2812b]

Hm seems like in Russia one can get the PK1-Package for 50% from November to January?
https://twitter.com/Elec_ru/status/923090806235205632
Or do I get this wrong? Any sign that this also applies in Austria?

[Rich@RohdeScopesUSA]

Hm seems like in Russia one can get the PK1-Package for 50% from November to January?
https://twitter.com/Elec_ru/status/923090806235205632
Or do I get this wrong? Any sign that this also applies in Austria?

My understanding is it is worldwide.  So yes, should be available in Austria.  It for sure will be available in the US and Canada starting November 1st.

-Rich

[Joel_l]

  

[KrzysztofB]

I was decoding a signal, which had exactly 2.2us. I did set timescale on 2.2us so it was niceliy aligned with grid, but when moving further i had to really focus when spanning.

Anyone knows if it's possible to assign a fixed time for one step on horizontal span?
I know you can do that by pressing on screen and setting numeric value, but would be so handy if i could just turn this detented knob, one step forward.

Oh. And is it possible to span timeline of measured and reference signal in the same time?