Author Topic: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004  (Read 387058 times)

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Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Hi Everyone - I'm very sorry for my slow response.  I've just responded to all the PMs.  Please let me know if you did not receive a response.

Thanks,
Rich
 

Online PA0PBZ

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Rich,
Although I don't own an R&S scope myself, my respect for your involvement here on the forum. I'm sure this has a positive impact for R&S!
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Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Thank you - I appreciate the kind words.  Although I've been lax the last week or so - spring break with the kiddos.

-Rich
 

Offline PeDre

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Where is the best place to send errors and change requests?
I wrote the question to customersupport(at)rohde-schwarz.com but didn't get an answer.
The e-mail address was from R&S Austria, I prefer to write in German than in English.
I can also post here, but suspect that it will be ignored.

Peter
 

Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Where is the best place to send errors and change requests?
I wrote the question to customersupport(at)rohde-schwarz.com but didn't get an answer.
The e-mail address was from R&S Austria, I prefer to write in German than in English.
I can also post here, but suspect that it will be ignored.

Peter
Hi Peter - that is the correct email address for Austria.  It is monitored 24/7, so if it was picked up by another region it sometimes takes a bit to get routed to the correct region.  If you write it in German I bet it will be routed quicker by non-German speaking regions  ;D

You can also use gloris.rohde-schwarz.com.  You can create an account there and I believe submit questions/issues.

-Rich
 
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Offline PeDre

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I have not registered, too much information is requested. And that I don't want advertising can't be turned down.

Peter
 

Offline PeDre

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Is there a correlation between sampling rate and memory depth with the automatic or normal trigger?
With me the displayed sampling rate and memory depth changes more often when I switch the trigger from normal to automatic.
I am sure that the display is often wrong, no matter if one or two channels per group are activated.
Is there a list of sampling rates and time settings?

RTB2004 Firmware 02.202

Peter

Edit: A helpful list can be found in the Reply #1986 of 0xfede:
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-killer-scope-a-true-game-changer-from-rs-rtb2002-rtb2004/msg1405398/#msg1405398
« Last Edit: April 14, 2019, 10:39:19 pm by PeDre »
 

Offline PeDre

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The PAL video trigger is unstable, the signal is shaking. The line number is one too low if you trigger on it. My Rigol MSO2000A does not tremble. If I also set the trigger to Edge, the signal will be perfect. The PAL signal comes from a Philips LDK 4210 generator.

RTB2004 Firmware 02.202

Edit: It also looks like often a wrong line is triggered when the oscilloscope is running.
Edit2: The jitter is with a Hameg HM2008 only a third of the RTB2000, ~ 90 ns.
The line number is displayed correctly and triggered correctly.

Peter
« Last Edit: April 12, 2019, 12:55:40 am by PeDre »
 

Offline PeDre

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I have problems with the mask test and the history mode to record errors in segments.
The manual is not helpful. It seems that you have to display the history beforehand. In case of an error the attached screenshot will be displayed. How can I stop the mask test now? When I close the segments to display the mask controls, the history is empty. Once I managed to display errors in the history, but I can't repeat it.
 I feel really stupid using the oscilloscope.

Edit:
I get it now, I think.
You don't open the history before, and the mask test has to be stopped with Run/Stop Button. Then the errors are saved in the history.

But which sample rate is used? Why is the display better at 2.5 GSa/s without mask test?

Peter
« Last Edit: April 11, 2019, 11:45:51 pm by PeDre »
 

Offline PeDre

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Here are three screenshots where I changed the trigger from Normal to Auto and back to Normal. The sample rate is changed and displayed incorrectly. But I don't know which is right now.

Peter
 

Offline Joel_l

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I tried to get mine to duplicate this and couldn't. Sampling rate just follows time base. Even if I manually set the record length, the sample rate would still just follow the time base on what ever calculation it's using. I did notice sometimes, the sample rate took a moment to update when changing the time base.

At 20uS/div you should be at 2.5GSa/S unless you played with the record length.
 

Offline PeDre

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At 20uS/div you should be at 2.5GSa/S unless you played with the record length.

The record length is set to automatic.

1. Normal Trigger: 20 µs/, 2.5 GSa/s
2. Change to 50 µs/: 625 MSa/s
3. Change to Auto Trigger: 2.5 GSa/s

Peter
« Last Edit: April 12, 2019, 12:57:05 am by PeDre »
 

Offline PeDre

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I like the oscilloscope, and the operation with a wireless mouse is wonderful.
But it seems difficult to synchronize the GUI with the controls, open menus and mouse clicks. There's a lot of work involved.
I've also discovered some inconsistencies in the SCPI commands, but I haven't done much with them yet.
I document the things I notice on a website. But first I have to be sure that I don't produce the bugs.

Peter
 

Offline Fgrir

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The record length is set to automatic.

1. Normal Trigger: 20 µs/, 2.5 GSa/s
2. Change to 50 µs/: 625 MSa/s
3. Change to Auto Trigger: 2.5 GSa/s

Peter

I can confirm this behavior on my unit also running FW 2.202.

In Auto trigger mode the sample rate is 2.5GSa/s for 500us/ and faster, switching to 1.25GSa/s for 1ms/ and so on.

When switching into Normal trigger mode, the sample rate remains unchanged, but then switching to any slower horizontal setting than what was active when you switched into normal mode causes a lower sample rate than the 2.5GSa/s.  For example if I switch to Normal trigger mode while the scope is at 100us/, then I get 2.5GSa/s for 100us/ and faster, but it switches to 1.25GSa/s at 50us/, 312MSa/s at 500us/, and so on.  Switching back to Auto trigger at 500us/ takes you back to 2.5GSa/s.

It looks to me like the scope is locking the Auto Record length setting when I enter Normal trigger mode.

EDIT: Yes, it is definitely locking the Auto Record Length when you switch to Normal trigger mode.  Screenshots 1-3 show the record length changing as timebase setting is changed while in Auto mode, and screens 4-6 show the constant record length while timebase changes in Normal mode.

EDIT 2: Even more interesting is that the locked 3 MSa Record length displayed for 500us/ in screen #6 isn't even a valid record length for that sample rate - it is between the allowed settings of 2MSa and 5MSa.  It actually appears to be using the 2 MSa setting.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2019, 04:07:30 am by Fgrir »
 
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Offline PeDre

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I have created a website with the error descriptions. I translated the English text with DeepL.

http://peter.dreisiebner.at/rohde-schwarz-rtb2000/

Peter
 
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Offline PeDre

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Can someone please explain to me why the signals are displayed so differently?

The 1 kHz signal is from the devices for probe compensation.
Channel 1 (yellow) is from RTB2004 with 70 MHz Bandwidth, channel 2 or 4 is from Rigol MSO2302A.
The probes are calibrated and the devices have warmed up.
Changes such as bandwidth limitation, sample rate, memory depth, AC/DC coupling etc. have little to no visible effect.

When I switch the probes from RTB2k to 1:1, a normal square wave signal is displayed. But this should also be displayed with the 10:1 setting. The rigol has only 10:1 probes.

Edit: I did a self-calibration and tested it with a 1 kHz signal from the Rigol DG4162, there are no differences.

Peter
« Last Edit: April 19, 2019, 03:31:29 am by PeDre »
 

Online PA0PBZ

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Looks like you need to compensate the probes on the R&S, for the rest I see nothing wrong?
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Offline PeDre

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The probes are compensated. The RTB2k offers its own option for this. When I use the Rigol probe, the signal looks the same as with the RTB2k probe.

Edit: I had compensated the probes incorrectly with the setting 1:1, because there was an error on channel 1 with the setting 10:1.

Peter
« Last Edit: April 19, 2019, 06:08:50 am by PeDre »
 

Online PA0PBZ

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The probes are compensated. The RTB2k offers its own option for this. When I use the Rigol probe, the signal looks the same as with the RTB2k probe.

Peter

Having compensated the probes on the Rigol does not mean that they are compensated for the R&S because the input capacitance of the scopes can be different. Are you using the R&S probes on the R&S scope and did you follow the probe adjust procedure? What if you connect the Rigol probes and do the probe adjust procedure?



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Offline PeDre

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I was able to properly compensate the probes now.
An error is displayed with the 10:1 setting on channel 1. With the 1:1 setting the compensation works but is not correct.

When I compensate on channel 2, it works with the 10:1 setting and the compensation is correct.
There's something wrong with the "Probe Adjust App".

I have updated the page:
http://peter.dreisiebner.at/rohde-schwarz-rtb2000/

Peter
« Last Edit: April 19, 2019, 05:39:43 am by PeDre »
 
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Offline exe

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With the 1:1 setting the compensation works but is not correct.

I'm not sure 1:1 can be compensated. I think only in 1:10 mode the compensation works as this way you adjust capacitive divider to match the same ratio as resistive divider (1:10). The pictures you showed looks fine to me, b you need to adjust probes on rtb2k.
 

Offline PeDre

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I let myself be unsettled, because nowhere in the manual is mentioned with which setting the probes must be compensated. And since it didn't work with 10:1 on channel 1, I also compensated the probes with 1:1 by mistake.

Edit: added 'in the manual'
Edit2: Someone has already had the same problems with the Probe Adjust App:
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-killer-scope-a-true-game-changer-from-rs-rtb2002-rtb2004/msg1180219/#msg1180219

Peter
« Last Edit: April 19, 2019, 05:18:26 pm by PeDre »
 

Offline maxspb69

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Any probes are not compensated for 1:1 mode. It's impossible. Only 1:10 (1:100 etc) can be  compensated. See probe scheme...
« Last Edit: April 19, 2019, 03:41:55 pm by maxspb69 »
 

Offline matches

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Yeah in x1 mode, there is nothing to compensate for.
Dave has a nice video regarding specifics of the x1 mode of the switchable probes.

 
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Offline norks

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Pedre, your screenshot shows an amplitude of 250 mV instead of the proper 2.5V. It looks like you have the probe switched to 10:1 but configured as a 1:1 in the RTB2000. That's probably the cause of the error.
 


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