new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004

[masto]

Continental Resources (http://www.conres.com/test-equipment) still has some in stock. They don't take online orders so you have to request a "Quote". I placed an order last week and it was shipped same day...

I just wanted to say thanks for posting this. I was late to the party on this scope; I saw some of the videos on my favorite YouTube channels but I was only half paying attention and by the time I realized I might seriously consider dropping two grand on a replacement for my DS1052E, it seemed like I'd missed the window. Fortunately you pointed out the apparently last place that still had some on order. Mine arrived yesterday and what an upgrade it is for this home gamer!

[Robaroni]

You guys see this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/352040549226?ul_noapp=true

[Robaroni]

Siglent seems to be the benchmark for LOW QUALITY.  I have not owned any Siglent instrument, is it really that BAD?

No it isn't. The hardware is quite decent and the rust is a running gag but the biggest let down in Siglent equipment is the buggy/incomplete firmware. When it comes to built quality I'm not impressed with the RTB2000 and that is mostly due to the surface mounted input BNCs which aren't bolted to the chassis and the way the PCB is mounted. You won't find that kind of cost optimisations in GW Instek, Rigol or Siglent scopes. In those the input BNCs are bolted to the chassis (for as far as I have seen so far) as they should because these connectors get a lot of abuse.

edit: Made in China means they can built things properly while still keeping labour costs down. Even in the Czech Republic it will be expensive to have an employee mount a PCB onto a metal frame and tighten a couple of nuts on  5 BNC connectors.

I watched Mike's breakdown and it looks like the jacks are pretty well built on the RTB. I've run high end instruments for years with stuff on PCB boards and even designed circuits using the same technology. I don't know of many laptops that don't have jacks attached right to the board. Done right they're not really a problem.
Saves a ton of time and production costs just like SMD over thru hole does. It's the future, the less labor and the more automation the cheaper it is, heck I'm doing mostly SMD now. The world is working to eliminate jobs, it used to be that we spiraled down to the world's cheapest labor force but those days are coming to an end.
Get an education and run the robots or hope you get one of the few manual labor jobs left. I got an education, I figured it was better than hanging off the back of a garbage truck at 6 am, I have an aversion to bad odors!

[mikeselectricstuff]

When it comes to built quality I'm not impressed with the RTB2000 and that is mostly due to the surface mounted input BNCs which aren't bolted to the chassis and the way the PCB is mounted.

As with the endlessly tedious discuusion about PSU caps, until we see one actually break, nobody can offer any meaningful information as to whether it's any better or worse.

[nctnico]

When it comes to built quality I'm not impressed with the RTB2000 and that is mostly due to the surface mounted input BNCs which aren't bolted to the chassis and the way the PCB is mounted.

As with the endlessly tedious discuusion about PSU caps, until we see one actually break, nobody can offer any meaningful information as to whether it's any better or worse.

Again: I have hands on experience with equipment which got abused and the ones with the BNCs bolted to the chassis survive better than the ones with surface mount BNCs. For me it is already history!

[dr.diesel]

Again: I have hands on experience with equipment which got abused and the ones with the BNCs bolted to the chassis survive better than the ones with surface mount BNCs. For me it is already history!

I have seen this many times as well, but never once on bench/desk mounted equipment.  Field used gear of-course get damaged any number of ways, and stuff mounted in 19" racks gets damaged by roll around chairs or people walking into them with long probes attached.

[Robaroni]

When it comes to built quality I'm not impressed with the RTB2000 and that is mostly due to the surface mounted input BNCs which aren't bolted to the chassis and the way the PCB is mounted.

As with the endlessly tedious discuusion about PSU caps, until we see one actually break, nobody can offer any meaningful information as to whether it's any better or worse.

Don't tell that to Dave!

Hey has anyone actually disassembled one of those Chinese caps and done a comparison? Audio guys are always clamoring about caps but they're.... well - audio guys-. Way down on my list of groups that do reality checking.
I've used Panasonic caps for years in switching supplies and they hold up well. I like seeing high end caps in the R&S, maybe just me but if a cap is going to go south I'll bet it's in a switching supply.

[Robaroni]

Again: I have hands on experience with equipment which got abused and the ones with the BNCs bolted to the chassis survive better than the ones with surface mount BNCs. For me it is already history!

I have seen this many times as well, but never once on bench/desk mounted equipment.  Field used gear of-course get damaged any number of ways, and stuff mounted in 19" racks gets damaged by roll around chairs or people walking into them with long probes attached.

A 250 lb guy rolling a chair into any rack mounted instrument jack is going to toast it. This is a several $K bench scope with no rack mounting hardware. Geeze!

If I remember Dave did a video where he dropped, ran over and kicked around a Keysight meter that stood up incredibly well. Guess what? Jacks on the board!

[nctnico]

Again: I have hands on experience with equipment which got abused and the ones with the BNCs bolted to the chassis survive better than the ones with surface mount BNCs. For me it is already history!

I have seen this many times as well, but never once on bench/desk mounted equipment.

I have seen it on desktop equipment as well. Go on Ebay and see for yourself.

[Pinkus]

You guys see this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/352040549226?ul_noapp=true

So this for: only max. 2 promo scopes per buyer. This guy has already sold 2 of the RTB2004.
I was wondering why they sold at Newark.com 4 or 6 (cannot remember) of these scopes at once (I looked at the stock and a minute later 4 or 6 suddenly were gone).
Now he raised his price from 3200 to 4000 USD. Still a good deal - I am sure he will sell it for this price too. But it is of course annoying for those who did not get even one RTB2004 COM4.
However: if would live in the US, I probably would have also tried purchasing three or four ... then selling them but one, which I would kept then for me (=for free).

[Robaroni]

Again: I have hands on experience with equipment which got abused and the ones with the BNCs bolted to the chassis survive better than the ones with surface mount BNCs. For me it is already history!

I have seen this many times as well, but never once on bench/desk mounted equipment.

I have seen it on desktop equipment as well. Go on Ebay and see for yourself.

OK, now I want a link.

[tautech]

When it comes to built quality I'm not impressed with the RTB2000 and that is mostly due to the surface mounted input BNCs which aren't bolted to the chassis and the way the PCB is mounted.

As with the endlessly tedious discuusion about PSU caps, until we see one actually break, nobody can offer any meaningful information as to whether it's any better or worse.

The BNC's used DO look nice but without them retained by nuts IMO this is the main cause of the microphonic behaviour. I think their mounting system will be adequate to survive the knocks and bumps but if they do get damaged they might also be harder to replace in this style. Tradeoffs. 
Time will tell.

[TK]

Again: I have hands on experience with equipment which got abused and the ones with the BNCs bolted to the chassis survive better than the ones with surface mount BNCs. For me it is already history!

I have seen this many times as well, but never once on bench/desk mounted equipment.

I have seen it on desktop equipment as well. Go on Ebay and see for yourself.

OK, now I want a link.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/KEYSIGHT-Infiniivision-MSOX3034T-Mixed-signal-Oscilloscope-350Mhz-MEGA-ZOOM-/172559013145?hash=item282d519519:g:GqYAAOSwhlZYuQIj

[Robaroni]

When it comes to built quality I'm not impressed with the RTB2000 and that is mostly due to the surface mounted input BNCs which aren't bolted to the chassis and the way the PCB is mounted.

As with the endlessly tedious discuusion about PSU caps, until we see one actually break, nobody can offer any meaningful information as to whether it's any better or worse.

The BNC's used DO look nice but without them retained by nuts IMO this is the main cause of the microphonic behaviour. I think their mounting system will be adequate to survive the knocks and bumps but if they do get damaged they might also be harder to replace in this style. Tradeoffs. 
Time will tell.

I think MLCC's are the cause of the microphonics.

[Robaroni]

Again: I have hands on experience with equipment which got abused and the ones with the BNCs bolted to the chassis survive better than the ones with surface mount BNCs. For me it is already history!

I have seen this many times as well, but never once on bench/desk mounted equipment.

I have seen it on desktop equipment as well. Go on Ebay and see for yourself.

OK, now I want a link.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/KEYSIGHT-Infiniivision-MSOX3034T-Mixed-signal-Oscilloscope-350Mhz-MEGA-ZOOM-/172559013145?hash=item282d519519:g:GqYAAOSwhlZYuQIj

This is just a damaged scope, there's nothing there about the jacks. For all we know they're still intact.

[nctnico]

Again: I have hands on experience with equipment which got abused and the ones with the BNCs bolted to the chassis survive better than the ones with surface mount BNCs. For me it is already history!

I have seen this many times as well, but never once on bench/desk mounted equipment.

I have seen it on desktop equipment as well. Go on Ebay and see for yourself.

OK, now I want a link.

From my own archives. On the HP machine the inner chassis is bent due to the force applied to the BNC connectors. The Tektronix scope got dropped ruining the barrel of the right most BNC.

[tautech]

When it comes to built quality I'm not impressed with the RTB2000 and that is mostly due to the surface mounted input BNCs which aren't bolted to the chassis and the way the PCB is mounted.

As with the endlessly tedious discuusion about PSU caps, until we see one actually break, nobody can offer any meaningful information as to whether it's any better or worse.

The BNC's used DO look nice but without them retained by nuts IMO this is the main cause of the microphonic behaviour. I think their mounting system will be adequate to survive the knocks and bumps but if they do get damaged they might also be harder to replace in this style. Tradeoffs. 
Time will tell.

I think MLCC's are the cause of the microphonics.

Yep but what is the main shock transmission medium to the MLCC's ?
No bulkhead BNC.

It's an oversight in the design, fatal for some like Dave and it would drive him mad but others could well live happily with it. Me, not sure but at least we're all now well aware of it.

[Robaroni]

Again: I have hands on experience with equipment which got abused and the ones with the BNCs bolted to the chassis survive better than the ones with surface mount BNCs. For me it is already history!

I have seen this many times as well, but never once on bench/desk mounted equipment.

I have seen it on desktop equipment as well. Go on Ebay and see for yourself.

OK, now I want a link.

From my own archives:

OK, If someone throws my RTB off the back of a moving truck and the guy behind him drives over it I'll check the jacks!

[agdr]

You guys see this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/352040549226?ul_noapp=true

These sales are an interesting free-market test of the R&S list price point.  If $4,000 isn't selling quickly what does that say about the $7,900 list price?  To be fair, in this particular case the market is likely a bit flooded after all the recent promo sales.

[Hydron]

Buying a single item off ebay is probably not the preferred way to purchase test equipment for companies/professional users, so doesn't necessarily say much about what they (the main market) would pay.

I also assume (though don't know) that a lot of users wouldn't end up paying full list price for a loaded up model if they called up and asked what kind of deal could be done.

[Robaroni]

When it comes to built quality I'm not impressed with the RTB2000 and that is mostly due to the surface mounted input BNCs which aren't bolted to the chassis and the way the PCB is mounted.

As with the endlessly tedious discuusion about PSU caps, until we see one actually break, nobody can offer any meaningful information as to whether it's any better or worse.

The BNC's used DO look nice but without them retained by nuts IMO this is the main cause of the microphonic behaviour. I think their mounting system will be adequate to survive the knocks and bumps but if they do get damaged they might also be harder to replace in this style. Tradeoffs. 
Time will tell.

I think MLCC's are the cause of the microphonics.

Yep but what is the main shock transmission medium to the MLCC's ?
No bulkhead BNC.

It's an oversight in the design, fatal for some like Dave and it would drive him mad but others could well live happily with it. Me, not sure but at least we're all now well aware of it.

I think the case transmits vibration to the board. MLCC's are known for microphonics, doesn't bother me I'm not pounding nails into hardwood blocks with the case, throwing the scope off the back of moving trucks or shinning a spotlight on the screen so I can use it as a mirror to shave. I just need it for trouble shooting from a hundred foot extension cord in the Arctic Tundra! (actually I think the glossy screen works better when it's snowing!)

Reality check!

[Robaroni]

Has anyone used a mouse with their scope? I tried two wireless mice but they didn't work properly. I finally tried a wired mouse which works but I'd like to use wireless mice.
Thanks

[theatrus]

Has anyone used a mouse with their scope? I tried two wireless mice but they didn't work properly. I finally tried a wired mouse which works but I'd like to use wireless mice.
Thanks

Didn't realize this was an option!

Most of the wireless dongles are a composite HID device (keyboard and mouse) so likely the scope doesn't know what to do with it. Which ones did you try?

[Robaroni]

Has anyone used a mouse with their scope? I tried two wireless mice but they didn't work properly. I finally tried a wired mouse which works but I'd like to use wireless mice.
Thanks

Didn't realize this was an option!

Most of the wireless dongles are a composite HID device (keyboard and mouse) so likely the scope doesn't know what to do with it. Which ones did you try?

Two Logitech wireless and a wired Logitech gaming mouse I use for CAD/CAM and EDA. This worked fine. I think there's an R&S guy using a wireless mouse on an instruction vid.

[Joel_l]

That's interesting. I just grabbed my wireless USB keyboard/mouse pad to try. It did something, cursor moved up and down screen but not horizontally. Mouse click made the cursor move to the right. So trying to do something but nothing usable or sensible. I then tried my logitech mouse, but no action at all. It's one of the unified USB setups, so that doesn't surprise me. If we can use a USB mouse and/or keyboard, it would have been nice to have a second USB on the rear for it so the front stays free for storage.